Allotments 4 All
General => Computers / Internet => Topic started by: Garden Manager on May 31, 2012, 15:42:23
-
I have a 3 year old ASUS X5DIJ series laptop running Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit sp1 (upgraded from vista equivalent). it runs IE 9 Norton 360 5.0 and has AOL 9.6 internet software installed.
For some time it has expereinced the random/intermittent problem of 'clicking fits' which freeze up the machine, requiring manual switch off and restart. various scans and virus checks came up with nothing and the machine can work fine for days sometimes between episodes. Today however after one such clicking episode it will no longer load/boot windows. The BIOS loads fine but after displaying 'Starting Windows' screen just goes to a black screen and mouse pointer (moveable). Nothing will change this (Control Alt Delete included) an the machine has to them be turned off manually.
I have tried loading the recovery discs i created when upgrading to Win7, the windows 7 installation disc and the original Vista recovery discs to no effect, the discs try to load but cannot and the same black screen returns.
I am wondering what the problem might be and how/if i can fix it. I am suspecting hard disc failure/problem, but as this has never happened to me before i do not know for sure. I am hoping it isnt as serious as this.
Please ask if you need any more info. Thanks.
-
Hmmmmm..
Does sound like the click of death for your hard drive but it is concerning that you Win 7 disks do not load as booting from those doesnt really involve the drive until it comes to writing the OS back. Are you sure it is actually trying to boot from the CD/DVD??
Have you tried booting into safe mode or any other mode - hitting F8 at at start (after BIOS) should bring you up a menu - I suspect it wont work but worth a shot.
-
Hmmmmm..
Does sound like the click of death for your hard drive but it is concerning that you Win 7 disks do not load as booting from those doesnt really involve the drive until it comes to writing the OS back. Are you sure it is actually trying to boot from the CD/DVD??
Have you tried booting into safe mode or any other mode - hitting F8 at at start (after BIOS) should bring you up a menu - I suspect it wont work but worth a shot.
Tried safe mode same result. System restore no go, Restore system image from HDD, no go, Cant Boot or run restore system image from DVD-R either. Bios set to boot from disc drive before HDD makes no difference either. Looking pretty final then?
Thanks
-
If it were my machine I would remove the drive and mount it in another machine but IT is what I do when not growing veg.
I get this sort of issue a fair bit and often a checkdisk of the drive will fix issues at least for a while. In your case it does sound like the problem has been around for a while and that the drive may be phsically damaged.
Just one thing - when you boot from a bootable CD/DVD do you get any messages along the lines - Press any key to boot from the CD. It's odd that you get the same issue when booting from CD/dvd. I think ASUS uses the esc key to give you a boot menu - need to press when the logo comes up. Then you can be sure form whoch device you are booting..
You could try downloading one of the linux distro live cds http://www.livecdlist.com which just boots into linux without using your HD..
It would allow you to at least see if your HD is working in any way at all..
-
If it's clicking, it is more than likely the hard drive. No way around that other than to replace it, I'm afraid... and even if it does continue working, I'd rather replace it anyway.
If you can find the manufacturer of the drive (either looking at the POST screen or in the BIOS, or by taking the hard drive out), you could download the manufacturer's tool for checking the status of the hard drive. They should have a tool to make a self booting CD. Put the CD in the laptop and boot off it (you may have to configure your computer to boot from CD first in the BIOS). That will confirm if there's a hard drive error.
If you need anything off it, or don't want to put a new hard drive in, there's half a chance that it would be possible to get it working again with special tools. However, the cost of doing this probably rules that option out unless there's important data - just as easy to get another hard drive, really!
-
Thanks for advice. Have already tried manufacturer disc checker (seagate). Nothing doing. HDD must be kaput. :(
Any recomendations as to replacement drives? Currently has a Seagate 500gb SATA drive in it. Is it best to go for like for like replacement ot try another make/spec?
-
To be honest the only thing to really worry about is if it's IDE or sata - almost certainly sata if it is three years old..
Most HDs are very reliable these days and I wouldn't worry about make and model too much, Seagate are fine but so are most other makes.
-
So once i get the new drive and install it, it should be quite easy to install windows. I have a windows 7 installation disc from ASUS that i have used to upgrade and reinstall windows 7 onto the present HDD. This i assume will be what i need? I also have home produced recovery discs for the machine as it stands, i assume these will be no good?
Thanks
-
You could try the recovery disks but it depends what you made them with and if it is a complete system restore - no issues with giving it a go.
As for Windows 7 you may have some difficulty if it is an upgrade disk only as you will have no OS to update from...However it may be a complete install so just try it out. You may have to end up installing any original disks that came with the laptop (Vista) but just try - nothing to loose as you can always start again..
Feel free to post here or PM me if you have issues!
-
Just looked again at the discs. The disc from ASUS does say it is only an upgrade disc and should only be used to upgrade the OS from Vista to 7. (The machine was bought just before 7 came out so started off with vista and later upgraded). However last year when the OS became corrupted (virus) i used the disc to restore and remember clearly being given the option of recovery/reload of existing OS or complete reformat and clean installation of the OS, without Vista being there first. I think i was hoping this function would allow a fresh installation on a new HDD.
I have 3 sets of home-made recovery/system image disks. One set for the original Vista OS, the other 2 the same for the upgraded 7OS made at different times. One on upgrade to 7 the other after the system reset/recovery mentioned above. Might it be nessesary to 'restore' the original Vista OS to a new HDD before upgrading to 7, in effect copying the old HDD?
Thanks for the help
-
It may but you have nothing to lose by trying the Win 7 disk on the new blank drive. If it fails and asks for an OS to update then try your restore disks first.
If your restore disks (latest Win 7) are full backups thne you could just try them - if it is it will give you a working PC - an image of it when you did the backup.
Have you got the new HDD in the lappie??
-
If you have the option download & burn a linux live cd (systemrescuecd or knoppixz) for example & try booting from that. Alternatively you could look in tesco/whsmith for a linux mag with live media included
Don't be scared of this, linux can be just as pointy-clicky as windows if thats what you need :)
ps - Always a good idea to have a live cd handy. If windows gets itself stuffed up, at least you can get your stuff off before reinstalling !
-
It may but you have nothing to lose by trying the Win 7 disk on the new blank drive. If it fails and asks for an OS to update then try your restore disks first.
If your restore disks (latest Win 7) are full backups thne you could just try them - if it is it will give you a working PC - an image of it when you did the backup.
Have you got the new HDD in the lappie??
No not yet. Havent even bought one TBH, was waiting to find out how easy it would be to get windows back on it before spending the money on it!
Someone on another forum suggested using an HDD enclosure with USB connection to test the old drive. Not sure if this is worth it as i am sure it had burned out, and i dont have an enclosure anyway. Thanks.
-
If you have the option download & burn a linux live cd (systemrescuecd or knoppixz) for example & try booting from that. Alternatively you could look in tesco/whsmith for a linux mag with live media included
Don't be scared of this, linux can be just as pointy-clicky as windows if thats what you need :)
ps - Always a good idea to have a live cd handy. If windows gets itself stuffed up, at least you can get your stuff off before reinstalling !
Is Linux the next best option if i cant restore windows from the old drive onto the new one and have to buy a new OS? Is linux cheaper than windows 7?
-
Linux is free!!!
You can either just run it from CD (Called a live CD) or install it on your drive like Windows. The beauty is that with a live CD you should be able to see if your HDD is there and if you can rescue the files. However great Linux may be (and it is) - it is not for everyone. Try ubuntu from the live cd link above if you have the ability to downlaod and burn. The try booting with the cd in the drive..
However what concerns me a bit is that you said you have tried booting from your Windows CD and you get nothing which leads me to believe it isnt actually using the cd/dvd to boot from or your windows disk cannot be used to boot your PC - Upgrade disks often aren't made bootable...
-
Had a go at downloading Ubuntu from the live CD site. Was a bit confused at first - so many download options on the site. Anyway i made the CD and to test ran it on my Packard bell desktop (from the CD not installed on HDD). Apart from the GUI being a bit small to read (screen res much higher than i use for windows) i have to say i am very impressed with it and am certainly keen to try it properly (probably in tandem with windows in case of problems).
I then tried the CD in the broken laptop to see if it would boot from it, but had the same non response as i had from the windows discs. It tried to load but couldnt. I guess that confirms the HDD is kaput, unless someone can tell me its something else gone wrong. Cant see that its the optical drive as it hardly ever got used when the machine was working!
Any tips or tricks for getting the best out of Ubuntu? If i go for it its going to take a little while adjust to from windows and have it set up similarly to what i was used to on windows.
Thanks
-
Hmm - I would suspect that something else is wrong with your laptop. Booting from Linux or Windows CDs doesn't involve the HDD at all (until installation) so even if you have no HDD at all your lappie should boot. Are you complete sure you are booting form the CD drive - can you see the drive light engaged and hear it spinning up? Is it enabled as a boot device in the BIOS and are you bypassing booting from the HDD at startup. You need to press esc to get a boot option list on your Asus laptop.
Your HDD may be dead but it seems that something else is amiss...
-
Hmm - I would suspect that something else is wrong with your laptop. Booting from Linux or Windows CDs doesn't involve the HDD at all (until installation) so even if you have no HDD at all your lappie should boot. Are you complete sure you are booting form the CD drive - can you see the drive light engaged and hear it spinning up? Is it enabled as a boot device in the BIOS and are you bypassing booting from the HDD at startup. You need to press esc to get a boot option list on your Asus laptop.
Your HDD may be dead but it seems that something else is amiss...
Like what and how do i find out what it might be?
Any good taking the HDD out and booting from a disc? Or setting up the HDD as an external drive on another pc to test it?
-
Difficult to say form here with any degree of certainty but if you are sure you are trying to boot from the CD drive then it could be that the drive is blown as well. It could be that your laptop wont boot at all which doesnt really lead anywhere good.
It may be worth a shot removing the HDD and trying to boot again from the CD if only to see what error messages get thrown up.
You can try the HD in a caddy to see if it is alive but it wont help you boot your laptop..(altough as I said before what you described earlier has been fixed many times by doing a checkdisk and fixing errors while in a caddy or slaved to another PC)
What exactly happens when you boot from CD - do you get anything at all. Any messages, logos, errors - does anything at all happen in the process of booting?
-
No messages or anything when i boot from the optical drive. Just the same black screen i get when i try to boot normally and a repeated sound of the drive operating but nothing happening on screen. Like i said before the cd drive appears to try to boot but gets nowhere.
Cant understand why the Optcal Drive should have burnt out at the same time as the HDD, The Optical drive isnt used that much.
-
Sorry for the delayed response... haven't been on here in a while!
You need your boot priority to be correct to boot from the CD. On the first page when you boot the computer, it should say hit *** to enter SETUP. *** will be a key, or combination of keys. Common is F2, F8, F10, DEL, CTRL+ESC.... it'll be something like that. Go into that and you're looking for boot priority. Without knowing which BIOS you have, I can't tell you exactly where that'll be, but it's often on the first screen or just about the last screen along. It'll look something like:
1st: HDD
2nd: Floppy
3rd: CD-ROM
You want CD-ROM to be higher up than HDD (HDD might say Seagate and a model no.).
Alternatively, it might say on that very first screen - press *** for boot menu... or something similar. This is a simpler way to do it - press that key and select CD-ROM.
Once you've done that, when you boot it should say press any key to boot from CD.... that, or it'll just boot from the CD.
If you definitely have the CD-ROM set to boot first and you can't boot the CD, either the CD is damaged or the drive is duff.
As for the rest.....
If it's a SATA drive, replace it with a SATA drive. Doesn't matter what make or model. Get a size that's enough for you. You could use an SSD if you wanted and it will be very quick booting, although they are more expensive.
If it's an upgrade CD, it's unlikely that it'll install unless it sees a valid Windows installation... or it will ask for your Windows key. Try the key that's on the sticker, if that's the case.
If you made recovery discs (i.e. there was a step-by-step process within Windows) then these should be good to restore your OS on the new drive. You may need to partition the drive first, though.... I can't remember whether it's built into the restore process in 7, but it could well be.
Any issues, I could always take a look if you're ever in Kent!
Good luck!
-
Just wanted to give an update on the problem. Havent done much about it since last posting but have recently got back to it again.
Current Situation; HDD aparently bust, recovery options no go. Bootable discs including manufacturer, home made recovery and a LINUX OS boot disc will not boot up the machine. Suspecting some other fault (with Optical Drive?).
Started looking into narrowing down the problems. Wanted to try in turn HDD and optical drives from another machine but both were incompatible. Thought about External Optical drives, either convering one from another machine or getting a ready made one. Got confused as to what to get so set aside idea for now.
I then remembered that Linux OS downloads could be installed on a USB stick drive and used to boot a PC. This would bypass the OD and get the machine booted. This i have done and it worked A1. The machine worked well booted from the stick and i was able to access the PC's HDD contents with no problem at all, so can easily recover the files at least.
This has left me confused though. If the HDD is kaput, how come i can access the files on it using USB booted Ubuntu OS? Does this mean the problem is not a HDD failure? What about the optical drive, does this test prove that is bust or again some other problem? Could the fault be software and not hardware?
Dont know what to do now. Should i try installing Ubuntu to the HDD and see what happens? Is there any way i can try to boot/reload windows without using the HDD or optical drive? Is it worth trying the drives (as external devices) on another machine?
Can anyone advise me please?
-
There is a difference between your files being OK and the machine booting. One or more system files could be corrupt and that can prevent the PC from booting. What I would do is to take the HD, put in caddy and run checkdisk on it from another PC (worth running virus check as well). If it still doesnt work when you put it back in your original PC then at least you know you can still get your docs etc off the disk. When an hd goes down the pan it can do it gradually or it can just become instantly unusable - your HD may be on the way out (from initial symptoms) but most of the files might just be OK.
You can install windows 7 from a USB stick and there are many instructions on how to do this (just google it - plenty of onfo.. but it does require you to have a Windows 7 disk to create one (although if you look hard enough there are ahem various sites you can download disk images) but you need a HD in your PC to install on. You cant really get past this.
if you can get Windows 7 install files on a USB stick then try booting from the stick. If you get that far then you should be able to reinstall windows or run the recovery tools..
http://www.pcworld.com/article/248995/how_to_install_windows_7_without_the_disc.html
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/681-startup-repair.html
-
Think of it in other terms.... for example.....
My friend recently bought a vintage motorbike. It was great, but made a rattling sound in top gear. He took it to a mechanic, who checked various common faults. All fine. He stripped the gearbox, to find one of the cogs was disintegrating. Had he kept using it, it would have got caught up in the other cogs, killed them, and killed the entire gearbox!
A SMART test is an early warning system telling you that your drive WILL fail.
If your hard drive is clicking, it WILL fail.
In both cases, you may be able to read the drive. For now. Copy it, then stop using it.
There are lesser faults, various corruptions, misalignment, even just a few bad sectors that are repairable and the drive will be fine. SMART errors and clicking though - treat them as an early warning detection and deal with it immediately!
-
Think of it in other terms.... for example.....
My friend recently bought a vintage motorbike. It was great, but made a rattling sound in top gear. He took it to a mechanic, who checked various common faults. All fine. He stripped the gearbox, to find one of the cogs was disintegrating. Had he kept using it, it would have got caught up in the other cogs, killed them, and killed the entire gearbox!
A SMART test is an early warning system telling you that your drive WILL fail.
If your hard drive is clicking, it WILL fail.
In both cases, you may be able to read the drive. For now. Copy it, then stop using it.
There are lesser faults, various corruptions, misalignment, even just a few bad sectors that are repairable and the drive will be fine. SMART errors and clicking though - treat them as an early warning detection and deal with it immediately!
Sorry dont understand this 'SMART' thing you refer to. What is it and how do i use it?
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.
SMART is an agreed way of HDs reporting failure information - mostly an automatic process that takes palce without user input although you can get programs (http://www.ntfs.com/disk-monitor.htm) to actively monitor your drive.
As retro says your drive is likely to fail completely if it is clicking and you cant boot from it. Get another HD - stick Windows 7 on a USB stick and install from there.
I see you are following Le Tour - do you think Wiggins can do it??
-
Sorry for the delay!
Yes, SMART is a selt diagnosis. It will probably be disabled in your BIOS, so you need to go into your CMOS setup (from the first black screen when you boot) and find the option to enable SMART if you want the SMART check to run.
Alternatively, the manufacturer's diagnostic disc may do a SMART check.