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Produce => Drink .... => Topic started by: Beer Monster on February 19, 2005, 13:32:07
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I am about to start making sake........anyone got any pointers, especially the yeast.
I have got a few recipes and am just waiting for my Koji-Kin (mould seeds) to arrive from Australia so I can make my Kome-Koji (malt rice). I have got my premium Japonica rice (well milled) and will be using Lemon juice instead of citric acid (I don't use chemicals). The yeast I currently plan to use is CWE Formula 67, a high alcohol tolerant all-purpose wine yeast.
Any help is welcomed.
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Well I have received my Koji-Kin from OZ and I have made my Kome-Koji. The rice needed a bit of help to get it going with the mould seeds but shall I say its "ripened". It gets very cheesy before the sake aroma takes over.
I have now started the fermentation and its nearly 2 days in, the yeast is doing its work and according to the recipe it should start to smell like sake in the day or so.
I will keep this thread updated, although it seems unless I brew Elderboringberry or Sloooooooooooe Gin no one seem very adventureous.
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oooo I'd missed this thread!! I'm interested! Though sake is a kind of aquired taste I think! I have no ideas about making it though to help sorry.
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Not that we aren't adventurous, just some of us don't really brew. Sloe gin is easy to do after all, doesn't involve yeast and demijohns and so on ???
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After a bad experience of drinking far too much sake one night/morning, it is not a drink I would attempt, especially home brew! :o If it has the alcohol content of some of my wines it could induce a VERY nasty hangover!!!
But it is making interesting reading! ;D
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when i was about 15 my dad took me to a chinese resturant and i wanted some sake. he agreed a to small one which was duly delivered. i poured it out of the china jug and drank. After a couple of helpings i commented that it was not that good and tasted like warm water - definatly no kick to it. with that my dad removed the top of the jug to reveal the sake in another jug - :o i had been drinking the warming water!! :D :D felt complete idiot anyone mentions sake now!
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lol!
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I am glad some people have joined the thread.... :D
Well I am 10 days in and after about 7 days the yeasty aroma became a sweet sake like smell......my god its working....I am always surprised when things work the first time.
I don't seem to be on the same timeline as the recipe but if I have ever learnt anything about brewing........its patience.
It should take 2 weeks to complete fermentation but I guess it will probably be more like 3 weeks. Then its time to filter at which point it can be drunk, this is called “Doburoku”, I am going to try one small bottle of this but then rack the rest to clear and pasteurise for storage then bottle.
I will update the thread when I have tried the “Doburoku” :P
PS. Got a marvellous deal on eBay...14 clear demijohns for a fiver.
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Why do you need to pasteurise it? The alcohol should stop it going off.
Well done on the DJs every time I've looked on eBay they've either been expensive or in Addis Abbaba.
Jeremy
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The explanation in the recipe goes...
"Pasteurizing: Sake that is stored with yeasts still alive in the bottle may be unstable and not preserve well. Sake can be stabilised by pasteurising, this process requires GENTLY heating the strained brew in a saucepan for 5 mins at 55 degrees centigrade(132° F), this will slightly change the character of the drink. Ignore any strange smell given off by the decaying yeasts, this will vanish within 6 days. Allow the sake to cool before bottling. This bottle will be now good for many years while it remains unopened. Generally sake will improve for the first few months after bottling. Leave it for at least a week after pasteurising before drinking. Any sterile sealed bottle will work well for storing Sake. Store in a dark place as light does not agree with Sake. One can choose not to pasteurise, however be sure to keep the Sake refrigerated at all times to preserve it well".
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Well......I have had success and kind of a failure.
After the fermentation ended I filter the brew with the intention of trying the "Doburoku", it was YAK. A kind of semolina texture that left a nasty taste and made me a tad worried about the outcome of the brew itself.
Hey ho, I carried on and decanted the liquid into 2 large bottles about a week ago. It cleared quickly leaving a thick white sediment in the bottom. At this point I pasteurised the contents of one of the bottles as per the recipe guidelines and re-bottled it, leaving the other as a comparison.
This evening I tried the 2 bottles, both chilled and warm..........
In bottle One......the pasteurised.....it has a yeasty after taste and isn't that good, cold or warm.....bugger......I hope it improves with aging.
In bottle Two......the fresh brewed.....success, a clean taste with a kick and a half, better chilled than warm.
With buoyed optimism I have started another brew, I have substituted Lime juice for Lemon juice to try and sharpen the taste up.
Going to get wrecked this weekend.
To quote the late David Niven "Sayonara is goodbye in Japanese, cyanide is goodbye in any language". ;D
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Are you still with us beer monster??? ;D ;D
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BM,
I'm glad to see that you left the Sake to mature before you drank it, otherwise it might have tasted a bit "immature" :D
Phil
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Phil
Are you a "sarci" expert ?
Any pointer are welcome.
BM
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I'm no wine expert - but I know what I like ;)
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Hows brew no. 2 coming along?
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The second brew is very good, I have let it mature a little more this time.
The taste is much closer to saki you can buy, just a little less sweet.
Its crystal clear and is nice chilled, but I still prefer it warmed.
The making of the Kome Koji is the pain, it needs a constant 30 degrees C, its OK over winter because I can put the central heating on constant over the weekend but at the moment its getting a little too warm. I need to wait until summer kicks in to make any more.
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Glad to see you are still alive Beer monster! ;D
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If anybody is interested in making there own Sake, I am about to order some more KOJI KIN from my supplier in Australia.
If you would like some please let me know who you are and how much you want, it comes in 1.5g bags or enough to do 1 gallon of sake. Please let me know by the 10th June.
I don't want to come across all sales like but its cheaper for me to order larger quantities. I am NOT looking to make a profit so please don't be offended and think this is a commercial opportunity. Depending on the quantities I order, it should work out at about £1.10 to £1.40 (+ 35p for me to post).
sayonara
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Hi Beer Monster,
I would like to make some sake. Can you let me know how I can go about getting some Koji Kin?
I'm looking to make 5 gallons in my first batch.
Cheers
MF
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Just a brief update.....I have just finished by latest brew using a champagne yeast (Lalvin EC-1118) and its REALLY good.
I won't to try some other yeasts now.......any suggestions.
ta
BM
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crazy beer monster go blind on sickly sake? ;D
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Not going blind drinking Sake.................can't always focus when I've had too much rum though.
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Hey BM, would you share your recipe with me? Sake is one of my favourites... :)
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Hi Suzylou,
no problems...I follow this recipe http://www.ebrew.com/primarynews/sake_basic_overview.htm#basic_sake
I don't use anything artificial whilst brewing so I replace the citric acid with lemon or lime juice and would suggest using the Lalvin EC1118 champagne yeast...much nicer taste.
If you are after Koji Kin I have some listed on ebay.
cheers
BM
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Ta everso ;) If I can persuade t'other half to let me have a go I'll look you up on ebay! :>
He got his GCSE in Japanese this year, and we eat sushi (with sake!) at least once a week but somehow he doesn't seem to trust me on this one :P
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I have some questions for Beer Monster- Do you not use any chemicals at all??
We would prefer not to and indeed don`t in most aspects of our life however have just received some new kit including campden, citric acid etc.
What sort of success have you had??
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Well I take my hat off to you............I had to endure saki at 2 blessing
ceremonies..top of the range stuff too.........brought over by my then Japanese
employers........ 30 gallons each barrel.......they would not let us drink it till it
was at proper temperature between that n squid and Japanese dishes..don't
know which was worse my head or my butt ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I've been homebrewing sake for a while now. How's your brew coming along? I'd love to share ideas with you. My latest batch is okay, but needs refinement. I am trying to find a source of highly polished rice, what kind of grain do you use? BTW, I use wyeast #9, which is evidentally the most common with japanese kura. I've also used lager yeast and champagne yeast. Your results make me want to try champagne yeast again. I started photodocumenting my process and I plan on writing a procedure once I nail it myself :) http://petesake.net/gallery
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:)
Hi there, just been looking for Koji-kin ... looked most places, looks like i will have to order from abroad.
I enjoyed reading the posts and will hope there are more in this category.
I thought I was making sake, when really I was making rice beer. It was clear, good to taste, and never got any complaints.
Sorry I used citric acid though, probably will carry on using it, though will opt for lemon juice as an alternative.
I really want to go for this sake brewing though, hopefully making quite a lot in future. My ambition is to be able to make pure rice sake, from some of the intructions it appears that hardest thing is to get the temperature settings just right all way through fermentation. To do this I imagine some sort of controlled environment is required, with the ability to change the temperature seetings. Though a little complicated at first, I am sure it can be built so that perfect results are allways achieved.
Anyway, if anyone has any koji-kin for sale, I wold appreciate it if you offered it to me for purchase.
Oh just one thing about what beermonster mentioned about yeast and pasteurising. An alternative, Whig i have not used yet, is to get a pressure filter, that has fine filtering ability, so that the yeast can be filtered out. My 'Buon Vino' filter with no.1 filter in can do this. It also mean to give it a real shine to the wine.
Hope to get some results,
Mike :)
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mike,
check out vision brewing, they sell koji spores if you want to make your own koji. I haven't seen koji rice pre-made for sale, but evidentally you can find it in asian markets. it's my understanding that sake refers to all alcholic beverages. to us though sake is nihonshu or rice beer, so you have been brewing sake...
-peter
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:)
Peter
OK, thank you for your reasurance, by putting me back on right track. Glad I was actually making sake, as that is what I was calling it, when giving it to my friends.
Just checked out your sake web site of pics... Impressive ;) and i am not just saying that.
I won't actually buy the Koji-kin till I have something like your koji rice box ...
Though I have acheived something today, I now know where I can actually get hold of the koji-kin.
So i am really happy I can get it now.
I was making the mistake in looking for Aspergilus Oryzae, which is the enzyme / mold.
I would love it if i could get a sample of koji-kin and be able to keep it reproducing... need a sterile set up for that hey. Thought of something, not sure if you are using it though. Its the air circulation, air in, cold be drawn in through a charcoal filter, and a pump...Not sure if that helps, ...?
Another tool I am not sure would help is a ultrasonic humifier, for putting water content into the koji rice maker, if it falls below the recommended hydrographic percentage. I guess it requires high humidity. Not sure if that helps either. OK... well I shall let you know how I get on, though might be sometime before I get the koji-kin.
Though will make some rice beer next week, using a super thrive yeast, enough for 20 litres.
Thanks again for replying so quickly.
Mike :)
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http://www.tibbs-vision.com/sake/
This may help with a few recipes for your brew. it is the place which supplies most of the goodies needed. If you have it I have some more sites.
Regards and good luck with your brew.
Whisk