Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Jayb on February 02, 2012, 10:04:18
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I love a bit of diversity and thought I’d give a bit of an update on progress with my accidentally crossed french beans. I grew out another generation last year and this is what I got;
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Top left are Rose Family beans looking as they should. Top right Rose Family x F1 and below the seeds of F2 plants grown 2011. All were climbers, some early and some late, there also looks to be a few reverse beans mixed in.
The second picture is another picture of Rose Family bean seeds x F2
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I've also ended up with a hybidized Papa de Role, the top right shws them as they should look. I don’t have a picture of the dark F1 Papa’s I planted although they looked somewhat similar in shape to the Papa’s pictured but dark in colour with no divided pattern.
Top right is the seed from the following harvest, Papa de Role x (F2) and below seeds from crop 2011 (F3) which gave a variety of bush and climbers and a mix of maturity times.
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I love F2s as well ;D Have grown out and followed several here too. A lucky French bean cross with Runnerbean is incredibly diverse (and still nowhere near stable). A very pale yellow, early bean from a swap had one that proved to be a cross and the pollen father almost certainly was A late, long dark green purple striped bean. The parent varieties could not be more different and the offspring is very diverse indeed. A bought green bean with purple variety had a different one in too and that was very diverse, but all were green with purple stripes. Seems to be a very dominant feature.
I have to learn how to upload pictures. Thank you for showing us your 'treasures'. Growing out odd ones is great fun, very educational and can just result in a really classy new variety in a few years time ;D
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Yes please, I'd love to see pictures they sound gorgeous :)
Edit to add, Growing out odd ones is great fun ;D
I couldn't agree more ;D
There is a good bit in wiki re adding photos http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?page=9 in FAO, although their are other image hosting sites other than the one mentioned in the link.
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Another crossed one Climbing Anasazi!
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Top row; left side are Anasazi seeds as originally sown, the black seeds are from one rogue bean plant. The white coloured seeds may have been a cross or reverse. Bottom row shows the beans grown 2011 from the black and white above. All climbing beans and produced well.
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Some of the pinks have pretty white splashes of colour on them, I think this is my favourite from last year.
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Lastly is a hybridised bean found growing last summer, should have been a bush Dog bean, seeds pictured right, but this one turned out to be a climber with red, darkening to black pods which contained black seeds! Looking forward to the scramble they produce this year
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Links back to original posts http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,64466.0.html
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,69244.0.html
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This is a runnnerbean x French bean cross flower, second generation after the cross. Very unusual speckling, with brownish apricot coloured flowers, some light purple in the background.
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Beautiful, such a pretty flower. I'll follow your progress with interest :)
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Top row; left side are Anasazi seeds as originally sown, the black seeds are from one rogue bean plant. The white coloured seeds may have been a cross or reverse. Bottom row shows the beans grown 2011 from the black and white above. All climbing beans and produced well.
These are real beauties. Especially the pink variant!
Yes, the increased productivity is called 'hybrid vigour'. The reason why seed companies sell F1 seeds. Often crossed seeds are especially vigorous and higher yielding. This will diminish a little in further generations. The F1, the first generation after a cross, is the generation with the greatest vigour, but it is also a very uniform generation. All the dominant features are displaying. In the F2 generation, the generation grown from the seeds of the F1 generation, there is still a lot of vigour, coupled with the largest possible display of all the features that a particular cross can provide. The biggest, smallest, earliest, latest, heaviest yielding, poorest yielding etc. This is the most interesting generation and this is the generation to choose possible new varieties from.
I find this all such fascinating fun ;D
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I'm hoping my saved "red flowered" frnch beans are stable... :)
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I'm hoping my saved "red flowered" frnch beans are stable... :)
Please do let us know what happens when you grow your F2s. Including what the seed leaves do when they germinate. do they stay at the base of the plant like runnerbean seed leaves or do they go a little up the stem like French beans.
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These are a few of the seed types from the F2 grow out of the cross between the early yellow and the late green and purple bean. All are from either one or two pods. One type had only 3 in a pod, others had 7 and 8. The pod sizes and seed sizes also vary greatly. The seeds with beige/brown/gold colouring correspond with yellow or yellow stripey beans, any seeds with black patterns in them correspond with green pods. The very plain looking non-patterned seed type (second from left top row) came from a green bean.
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I'm hoping my saved "red flowered" frnch beans are stable... :)
Please do let us know what happens when you grow your F2s. Including what the seed leaves do when they germinate. do they stay at the base of the plant like runnerbean seed leaves or do they go a little up the stem like French beans.
Yes please, love to hear more, I find it fascinating :)
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Galina, what a super variety of seeds, really intresting linking seed and pod colour. I'll try and be more on the ball with my recording next year.
What do you think the chances are of seeing the pink white splash colouration again?
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Galina, what a super variety of seeds, really intresting linking seed and pod colour. I'll try and be more on the ball with my recording next year.
What do you think the chances are of seeing the pink white splash colouration again?
I must say that it was co-incidence that I noticed ;D But I started putting different colour markers on them to remind myself when I came to look at the seeds.
Since these were F2s (if I have read your post correctly), there is every chance that they will come back. The F2 generation is the generation of greatest diversity, but it is also the first generation that shows up what type the following generations will be. The F3, F4 etc generations should be far more similar to the F2 than the F2 compared to the F1. In theory what follows grown from the pink seeds with the white splashes, should have similar seeds, give or take a few throw-backs and split-offs. As these are not an interspecies cross (such as between runner and french bean), there should be a good chance at maintaining this seed colour feature in further filial generations.
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Here are just two of the beans I got from that cross. The one on the right is very similar to the mother, the one on the left is shaped like the father (long with an S shape), but pale green with purple speckles, very attractive.
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This is another F2 I got. The pods are attractively coloured but short and lumpy looking. I shan't carry on with this line.
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Both of these are nice. The yellow one on the left has interesting short broken stripes and the one on the right looks a bit like the pollen father original, but paler.
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This is very interesting. The beans are so beautiful and I love the slightly tinged pods.
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This is very interesting. The beans are so beautiful and I love the slightly tinged pods.
Thank you Ophi.
Last picture I promise. This is a group photo. The single bean on the right is not particularly attractive, the second from right is a straight version of the pollen father. The third from right is so pale green, were it a squash, it would be called 'white'. It is also particularly fleshy, a nice bean to eat.
I am calling these Infra, followed by their specific number. The mother variety is Indiana Banana and the pollen father is Berner Landfrauen.
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How did you manage to get a French Bean - Runner bean Cross?
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You are both so very clever. I would get mixed up with them all. ;D
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How did you manage to get a French Bean - Runner bean Cross?
A bee or wasp did it. I noticed an odd french bean plant with red and white flowers like 'painted lady' runner beans. I asked a friend (experienced seed saver) and he told me what it was.
French beans with red flowers, like the one Saddad reported, are most likely french/runner interspecies crosses. My red/white flowers point to a cross with painted lady runner bean, which I had indeed grown the previous year.
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Such gorgeous looking beans Galina, I particularly like the look of the s bean. Keep us all posted :)
Lots to look at and think about :)
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I very interested in the french/runner bean crosses. The commercial ones on sale are white flowered though I have seen reference to a red flowered one.
I have been wondering if there is any way of getting it to happen.
It will be interesting to find out how stable these crosses are.
I have saved some seed of moonlight so I will be interested as to what the second generation wll be about. There were loads of other beans about particularly Mrs Lewis;s purple podded so I am hoping for sime interesting results.
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With all this talk about beans I'm now more interested in the fact that my home saved Painted Lady seeds are now paler than the original ones I started off with. Wonder If I'll get paler flowers this year??? ;) Robert sent me some seeds so we'll see what a little matchmaking does...... ;D
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Makes me want to plant a whole row of mixed tall growing French beans and see what happens.
I am planting a mixed row of runners this year anyway
Maybe we will get a bean orgy!!
XX Jeannine
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You will with the runners. You might get the odd French cross, but I grow different varieties next to each other, and haven't had one yet.
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I think I feel a new project starting :P
I did look at cross pollinating beans last year but took the easier route of crossing peas ;D
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Some varieties seem to be more prone to crossing than others. I grow major cook and find a small percentage each year are different. I grew them fairly close to some Borlotti and some of the seeds in year two were larger borlotti shaped. Cherokee Trail of Tears on the other hand seem to come up the same everytime.
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Sounds a good combination Digeroo, are you going to grow out your Major Cook x Bolotti again this year?
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It seems that the worse the summer is the more french bean crosses I get - if the parents look interesting and different then the offspring might be something unique - sometimes the beans themselves are the lookers - I have one that looks like polished fancy jasper when it is fresh, unfortunately nothing special when it is dry.
One thing I will be looking out for is a low-climbing bean that will coexist with my other two mini-sisters (sweetcorn and cucumbers). Some dwarf borlottis put a climbing spurt on after the first set of beans but none of my crosses do so far.
Cheers.