Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: plainleaf on December 16, 2011, 16:55:20
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i started 32 tomato seeds for early plant out yesterday. the plant outside date is feb 15 2012.
i will post picture of this test as it go along.
first seed pop should be in day or two.
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What kind of temperatures do you get over there in February?..and how do you protect them if you do so?
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weather ranges
the temps run between -12.22 C /10 F to 4.44C/40 F
snow ranges from 0-26 inches per storm
protection used soil heating cables,double stacked wall o waters, and hoop house
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Well..that will be interesting test..I'm looking forward to hear how you get getting on with that. I've seen pictures of those wall o waters..but would double stacked wall let enought light come through with snow and frost on surface as well?
Brrr..I think I need heating cables how our weather is at the moment. ;D
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Nice to see your weather goes by Fahrenheit, Plainleaf. Accurate to 0.01 degree, no less!
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But PL you are considerably further south than us, so even though it is cold the light values will be higher.
For example on Thursday the shortest day in Baltimore will be 9hrs 24mins while I will only have 7 hrs 47 while those people living in Scotland have about an hour or more less than this. It will be 6th February before we get 9hrs 24 of daylight.
Mind you we win after the equinox and getting over an hour extra digging time from 1st May onwards for about 14 weeks.
It would be most unusual for our February temperatures to be as low as yours.
Our forecast temperatures for the rest of this month are similar to yours though the slightly average minimum is higher for us.
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There's no point comparing growing in the UK to the USA - there's so many differences.
All 'advice' needs to be taken with a very large pinch of salt so one wonders what the point is.
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A4A is international, we welcome members from all round the world. For me, part of the fun and interest is reading about how it's done in other places with different conditions. We may not be able to transplant methods and techniques directly, but there's always the possibility of picking up something we can use in our own conditions.
I didn't see any advice being given in this thread so far but, I'm sure if there was, members would make up their own minds about its usefulness like they do for anything else posted on A4A.
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I thought that the wall of water sounded like a good idea but was advised by an unknown source that they had tried to import them but they had not taken off in this country.
I did mean to try and build something with plastic bottles full of water or perhaps a plastic mini green house with a water butt inside. But last year was just so cold I did not bother and left the tomatoes on the windowsill with a radiator underneath rather longer. I have had better success with growing on top of a strawbale with plastic bottle cloches on top. Did wonders for courgettes and melons, I will give tomatoes a whirl next year. Though actually the best melons were grown on the leaward side of the bales rather than on top.
Another of our stateside members has experience of my dry gravelly soil type and has messaged me with a number of very useful suggestions.
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We really need to know where people are from so we can see whether advice is likely to apply to us. Could the wall o' water have failed here because of the low sunlight in winter, I wonder?
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Actually I am feeling rather niggled with myself my daughter has just come back from two weeks staying with friends in the US I knew there was something I wanted.
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gardening methods in the used in USA should would fine in the uk
the issue is not method but timing. frost date being the most in important not light levels. since later in season the uk day length dwarfs me by a large factor.
variety being a factor.
given correct variety and planning in usa watermelons over 100lbs have been grown from the south of USA FL and AZ to as far north as MN,AK
weather, light, are not deciding factor.
soil and planning are.
take the square foot garden method when used in correctly it works just about everywhere except
the most extreme desert and coldest arctic areas.
FL= Florida
AZ=Arizona
MN=Minnesota
AK=Alaska
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The world record watermelon is a little larger than 100 lb; it weighed 132kg (291.0lb), and was grown by Chris Kent in the United States (I don't know where), in 2010. The UK record weighed 75kg (165lb), and was grown by Ian Neale in 2005. So a 100 pounder is possible here, but the methods used by giant veg growers are a little extreme. It wouldn't be easy.
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I always start my toms around first week in Feb on the windowsill in an unheated propagator but over a radiator.
This year they won't get started until first week in April cos we will be away. Will be interesting to see how much the early start affects the harvest.
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Robert_Brenchley some of there method are extreme but others are very mundane and simple.
one of the simple technique the giant grower use that the average allotment holder can do is increase the organic matter in the plot and crack the subsoil.
a simple way to do this is to plant
the really long varieties of daikon radish(mooli) , after adding little bit of organic matter you grow them 3 years in same spot and let them rot. great for clay spots.
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shirlton the harvest has a lot more to do with other factors then earliness.
the early start is not about total season production but i can increase that to. the early started plants are there to produce just 1 tomato per plant some ripe in august some ripe last week end in October.
the early started plant are for biggest tomato contest.
this year i will be starting 20 plants for an early batch of sauce mid July.
i learned a secret of a great tomato grower few years back if go for bigger plant size before you get the first flowers you can increase production by 10 that grower produced plants that could get over 60 lbs tomato per plant compared to the common 6lbs per plant.
But his method brakes rules about how you usaully fertilize tomato plants.
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weather, light, are not deciding factorHmm..I do not agree with your statement there... :-\ All those are the basics with plants capability produce growth.
You can do all the soil preparation you want but if you do not get adequate light for optimum growth..if the weather do not support it neither..your growing will be doomed.
Too much moisture and not enough warmth and plants will just 'sit' and sulk.
We may get more light later on the year..but with some crops that it is too late..getting good light level earlier on the year to ensure strong early growth is essential with those plants that have long season habit...you don't get record breakers with spindly little plants.
variety being a factor...that's correct..that's why in UK we generally need shorter season varieties that are able after 'late' planting manage to finish with their cropping.
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goodlife you make me laugh since the temp and moisture level issues are so easy to prevent. for temp help I suggest you speak to that English fellow Newton.
And the moisture issue is all matter of redirection.
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I would have thought indoors under artificial light was the way to go, I look forward to seeing the pics, oh deer, my side has just split.
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Sorry PL I thought you were planting early to get an early harvest.
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goodlife you make me laugh since the temp and moisture level issues are so easy to prevent. for temp help I suggest you speak to that English fellow Newton.
And the moisture issue is all matter of redirection.
and also
gardening methods in the used in USA should would fine in the uk
? Way too cryptic for me to understand.
But I am glad you are laughing ....
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goodlife you make me laugh since the temp and moisture level issues are so easy to prevent. for temp help I suggest you speak to that English fellow Newton.
And the moisture issue is all matter of redirection.
You can laugh as much as you want. But if you are talking about growing outside during winter/ early spring..you can't pull sun down from sky nearer to your plants..ok if you have artificial lighting..but try to get that into allotment is different story.. ::)
As for moisture...yes for certain extent you can cover you plants and prevent plants/soil getting watered directly..but even there is a limit...if you've done your ground preparation as well as you been advising us to do it..it will draw/soak up moisture from uncovered surrounding soil and hold on to it well. Soil doesn't evaporate its moisture same in winter as in summer so any rain will just add on and on to the moisture/wetness on soil. And...you don't really redirect moisture, only moving water and that's another story as well. But try to prevent soil getting too moist/wet if/when the heavens keep dropping the wet stuff by the bucket load. Not so much trouble this year..yet..but only two years ago we had inch of water on top of soil, wells were overflowing and more was coming down from sky... ::)
gardening methods in the used in USA should would fine in the ukMajority of gardening methods used in USA do work fine in UK but it is the weather and its effects that we cannot predict and is different where ever you are. I wasn't arguing about the gardening methods here.
I'm really looking forward to hear about how your experiment is going to work out...hopefully we all are going to pick something new from it.
the issue is not method but timing. frost date being the most in important not light levels. Frost date is not the issue.. frost in general..less the better.
weather, light, are not deciding factor.
soil and planning are.Don't try to tell me that and light levels don't have much to do with success of growing..if you don't get it right either naturally (by getting your timing right so the sun works for you) or by giving adequate artificial light and protection there is no chance getting tomatoes to grow anything any earlier. Basic horticulture..!
Tomatoes are able to withstand lowish temperature..but only when they've got their feet firmly in and established themself. If you start this early..you need artificial lighting to get them into good growth with reasonably large rootballs..then they need to be acclimatized into cooler growing conditions...
Like I said.. Looking forward to see how you get on with this..
Perharps you should be more specific how you are planning to prepare the ground and your plants against the elements...are you using artificial light..are you growing in GH or open ground??? You don't give much details.
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goodlife
the plants are started under lights for 6 weeks
they are hardened off 2 weeks
i think you confusing what the last frost date is.
good life water rarely flows up hill into covered raise bed
my tomato bed has been covered since November
the soil is covered by weed cloth and bed is arched by a plastic hoop house. you will see more details when post picture after Christmas
similar to one in the link below
http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/how-to-build-a-hoop-house/index.html
the soil is very loose and Friable Soil
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as long as your day length is over 10 hours the method for early plant out will work
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i started 32 tomato seeds for early plant out yesterday. the plant outside date is feb 15 2012.
i will post picture of this test as it go along.
first seed pop should be in day or two.
So the first of your photo,s should have been uploaded by now so we can see your propergation meathod.
I dont, normaly set my first seeds till late January but as my heating is free and i have to have it on for my leeks and stock plants i think i may set some away tomorrow just as a comparison check. I dont suppose a month will make that much difference.
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sorry for not posting pictures sooner but had other stuff i was up to
picture 1 is one of my seed flats
(http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b419/plainleaf/seedstart001.jpg)
picture 2 seed flat with dome.
(http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b419/plainleaf/seedstart002.jpg)
picture is my propagator with light and heat mat.
the flat is on a height adjustable shelf. the propagator has space for 8 flats
(http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b419/plainleaf/seedstart003.jpg)
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Nice looking set-up, PL. How high can your plants get with the growlamp arrangement you have? How are they doing now?
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the top level which is seen in picture 3 if the flat is sitting on the lowest shelf the distance from the top of the flat to light 12 inches/30.5 cm
on bottom level not pictured max distance is 18 inches /45 cm
the reason for the shelf design is when I was looking at other designs before
I built this one, most designs you raised and lowered lights or had different size boxes under the flats to get them closer to the lights. this design turned those designs on there head. I got rid of all flaws and it lets you start different type of plants at different times.
there is timer that turns lights on and off. The whole set up only need very little interaction except moving the flats when plants get too tall and watering.
ps
seed starting setups should be kept away from pets and unsupervised children
both are walking plant destroyers.
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For this coparison on germination i went for a more technical approach.
I planted my seeds on the 29th Dec
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/stumpinsci/Picture412.jpg)
Put then in the perculator
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/stumpinsci/Picture414.jpg)
Closed the frond door
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/stumpinsci/Picture414.jpg)
Had a look today and they had poked their heads through
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/stumpinsci/Picture416.jpg)
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davyw1 interesting design but not very flexible
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davyw1 interesting design but not very flexible
Nothing to do with what is flexible, this nothing more than a comparison using your method and my method
Stage 1 being the germination of tomato seeds, you planted yours on the 16th Dec and as yet no photo of germination, i planted mine on the 29th Dec and had germination within 4 days.
When you do get them to germinate the next comparison will be to see what your plants progress like under your grow lights and mine without lights in my greenhouse.
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davy mine where up after 4 days i just did not take picture. since my bother borrowed my camera to take pictures of my nieces during the holidays
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davy mine where up after 4 days i just did not take picture. since my bother borrowed my camera to take pictures of my nieces during the holidays
So will be getting it back wont you and then we will be able to compare the growth
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davy soon or later.
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Plainleaf my progress so far but i expect yours will be bigger by now that presuming that they have germinated
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/stumpinsci/Picture420.jpg)
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Dual at dawn, you are both doing good bit early for me end of feb soon enough do you use all them plants ;)
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Dual at dawn, you are both doing good bit early for me end of feb soon enough do you use all them plants ;)
No most of them will be sold on or given away, there may about a dozen i want for myself and a friend who has no GH
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Good for you , no luck the past 2 years i get them to the fruit stage and must be to cold for them but ready to win the fight this year will watch yours and ::) good luck :)
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It is so very hard to make sense of peoples planting times when there's no clue as to where in the world they are. Or have I missed something as usual? ???
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Aden Roller i have post my location several times.
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Location but no photos. :D ;)
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It is so very hard to make sense of peoples planting times when there's no clue as to where in the world they are. Or have I missed something as usual? ???
I think Davy's somewhere up the NE coast of England and Plainleaf in Maryland in USA. No doubt they'll correct me if I'm wrong!! ;D
I actually find it fascinating seeing how people grow their stuff, so I'm hoping to see lots more photos, hints and tips!
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Aden Roller also my planting time and method have nothing to do with normal planting times in my area.
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I am in the North East over looking the North Sea, possibly the coldest place in England. My location is in my profile
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following this thread with interest i see davyw1 you sowed your seeds in a seed tray but at what stage did you prick them out in to your pots shown and are they vending cups i have a unlimited supply of plastic cups working in a canteen
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I was reading this subject with great interest as am itching to get the tomatoes seeds planted,I haven't got heating or electric in the plastic g/h ,was thinking of polystyrene cup for insulation and I got hold off two polystyrene sheets to reflect light and also insulation,trying to decide about heating (candle or hot water bottle) ;D I will try the Polly tunnel for my tom's outside ,has anyone stated there seeds for sprouts ect yet?
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He's south of us, with a continental climate. Hot summers, cold winters.
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following this thread with interest i see davyw1 you sowed your seeds in a seed tray but at what stage did you prick them out in to your pots shown and are they vending cups i have a unlimited supply of plastic cups working in a canteen
I suppose if you so seeds in something it becomes a seed tray, what i use most is the black plastic packing trays what you various items of food in.
Every one has their preferences some like modules, i dont as they take up to much room.
I prick out the seediling as soon as the seed leaf is strong enough to hold (never hold the stem if it breaks its dead, damage a seed leaf and the plant will grow on) i then dibble a hole into the pot and place the seedling in as deep as it will go without covering the seed leaf.
I use plastic cups for everything cut out two slits either side of the base with a stanley knife (not for drainage as i bottom water) to allow the compost to absorb water.
Hiope this helps
Davy
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clay basket how about using plastic milk bottles as warming your poly greenhouse(filled with hot water)acting like a water bank
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Thats a good idea Brown Thumb I never thought of milk bottles , have you givin this a try?my OH thinks its to soon' and that am mad ;D he's the brawn and am the crazy one :D
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you can use what ever you want for cloches but wall o waters and similar work better then pretty much all other methods due to the minimum temp range they work at.
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you can use what ever you want for cloches but wall o waters and similar work better then pretty much all other methods due to the minimum temp range they work at.
so enlighten me
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no other cloche work to temperature as low as -10 C
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haven't used them for frost protection used one as a hot water bottle once went camping sleeping bag was freezing so put a water filled milk bottle to warm it up wont trust them to leave in sleeping bag over night lol