Allotments 4 All
General => News => Topic started by: gerkin on September 27, 2011, 13:10:55
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our water supplier anglia ! have taken the steps of banning all hoses on our site
standpipes will be replaces with self filling troughs which we then have to fill ourwatering cans at and walk back and forward till watering is done
there reason old water can be syphoned back into the main
they have rejected the idea of non return valves on the pipe
this is due to come in force from next spring
our water is turned off on oct 1st
was told may be implemented nationwide !!
is everyone aware of this ruling
can we get a petition or similar[nationwide } to make our feeling known?
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We have self filling troughs and no standpipes.I've never known it different here and at times it is a backwards and forwards job .But like weeding and slugs you learn to live with it.
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Are you sure it's the Water Board and not your landlord trying to save on his water bill?
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A very good thing in my opinion. It only takes some bolshie tw%t to stand over the standpipe and his hose refusing to allow anyone else access untill his plot is a lake. Cheers, Tony.
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We were made to get rid of self filling troughs 6 years ago in case they syphoned back into the mains (if water pressure briefly stopped obeying Physics ::) ). We have free standing troughs about 6 ft away from the tap, with a short length of hose that isn't allowed to be left in the trough. It works well enough - I can take water out quicker than the trough fills so it's no slower than watering by hand with a hose.
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The only time we can use hosepipes is to fill our waterbutts. We can't water direct onto our gardens. I take my generator down along with the waterbutt pump. We are allowed to use a hose pipe this way as long as it's not from the stand pipe.Highly recommend water butt pumps, it don't half save your legs.
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We have no water. I'd love self-filling troughs. Honestly, not having water makes us grow things differently, makes us think about conservation and we do better planning because of it.
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never been allowed hoses at our site for as long as the old timers can remember, we do have troughs and one tap with one of them push down taps on it that shuts of after a minute or so lucky for me i have one right at the end of my plot and very big buckets to carry it down to the other end of the plot..
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They've been taking away our self filling troughs almost forcing people to use hosepipes.
I wish they would ban hosepipes, there are people on our site who water with a hose for 4-5 hours each and every day! I'm sure they would be water wise if they had to carry the water rather than leaving it runninhg on their dahlias and sweet peas.
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Of course hosepipes are banned! Some folk would install sprinkler systems and permanent seep-hoses if they could!
We've got self-filling water tanks - with ballcock valves, same as at home - on or near every plot. If necessary, we run in more so that no-one has to walk too far. But hosepipes are totally banned. And so are stand-pipes.
The water is turned off late autumn and on again in the spring, although we do turn it back on briefly if required. During the summer it's on a timer: on very early morning; off late evening.
A lot of Council-run sites have their water bill paid for them, so individual members are shielded from the true cost of water. We pay our own bill. Last year it was nigh on £900, for 100+ members. (And that comes out of the £13 rental for a half-plot, which is what at least 50% of our members are paying! And we have to pay rent to our landlords. And we buy machinery and loan it out free of charge, with free fuel!)
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No hose pipes allowed on our Council site, and water turned off before the winter (not sure when). Have tried to fill my water butt up (in the middle of my allotment) with a hose pipe, but couldn't understand the physics, even although it was explained many times by OH, something about sucking the water in the hose pipe, but it never worked for me, and I quite enjoy watering with a watering can or two, if my arms will take it. Find it quite relaxing on a hot summers evening. Still don't understand how water can go up hill, or up the water tank, well it didn't for me. It did fill the water butt with watering cans but think it is leaking as next time I looked it was empty. Don't allowed sheds or the water could run off the roof into the water butt, otherwise a bit of a waste of space, might cut it in half and grow carrots in it.
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You get quite devious when faced with no water. I have all sorts of containers dotted around that fill up over winter, with sliding and angled lids to prevent the water drying up when it's warmer. One of the best [my secret stash] is a delivery container with door-like lid, so the water collects on the top and drains through into the container.
Also, I bought an IBC container this year. Brilliant.
At one of my schools, we got one of those pallet frames and put a water butt in it, with polythene over the top, funnelled down in the middle to fill the water butt up. Designed by a 14 yr old. If he can do it, so can anyone.
With water going up - if the opening of the outlet is below the opening of the inlet, then the water should flow if sucked hard enough. It's called 'head' and the pressure of the water 'above' pushes the water out the tube as it's 'below'.
Even though the tube itself rises above the level of the water.
I used to be an engineer you know....
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The only time we can use hosepipes is to fill our waterbutts. We can't water direct onto our gardens. I take my generator down along with the waterbutt pump. We are allowed to use a hose pipe this way as long as it's not from the stand pipe.Highly recommend water butt pumps, it don't half save your legs.
Ditto. I then bought a 240v barrel pump, and I already have a petrol generator, so i fill a barrel from the tap with a hose whilst pumping it out with the barrel pump and another hose. Perfectly legal, two separate hoses.
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You wouldn`t do that lincsyokel if you had to pay for the water you use. I bet the standpipe is dismantled before long, to the disadvantage of the other considerate plotholders. We obviously aren`t all in it together re water conservation
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You wouldn`t do that lincsyokel if you had to pay for the water you use. I bet the standpipe is dismantled before long, to the disadvantage of the other considerate plotholders. We obviously aren`t all in it together re water conservation
Bracebridge Heath has its own resevoir......................and the cost of water is in the plot rent. Last year the Allotment Association paid for two more stand pipes on the site. The biggest waster of water is Anglian Water itself. It loses a third of what it pumps in unrepaired leaks. They could of course try not paying a dividend to the shareholders and spend the money on fixing the leaks instead. I guess some of us are happy to labour away for free while the money goes as unearned income to people who dont need it. Bearing in mind we used to own the Water Boards until Maggie gave our property away to people with money. No body asked me if i wanted to sell my share of this public asset.
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^^ Is the water on your site metered? If so, even if everything you say is true, it's not relevant. You are ramping up the bill for the whole site so everyone else is paying.
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You get quite devious when faced with no water. I have all sorts of containers dotted around that fill up over winter, with sliding and angled lids to prevent the water drying up when it's warmer. One of the best [my secret stash] is a delivery container with door-like lid, so the water collects on the top and drains through into the container.
Also, I bought an IBC container this year. Brilliant.
At one of my schools, we got one of those pallet frames and put a water butt in it, with polythene over the top, funnelled down in the middle to fill the water butt up. Designed by a 14 yr old. If he can do it, so can anyone.
With water going up - if the opening of the outlet is below the opening of the inlet, then the water should flow if sucked hard enough. It's called 'head' and the pressure of the water 'above' pushes the water out the tube as it's 'below'.
Even though the tube itself rises above the level of the water.
I used to be an engineer you know....
I'd like to see your system work on our site...after all it relies heavily on something we don't get.....Rain!
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^^ Is the water on your site metered? If so, even if everything you say is true, it's not relevant. You are ramping up the bill for the whole site so everyone else is paying.
no, you still dont get it do you...........the Allotment Association makes a profit and subsidises the site. For example, we have on plot that a communal plot, we grow strawberrys on it, and in the late summer we have a Strawberries and Cream Open day, we make about £200 profit from that one day. everyone chips in on the upkeep of the communal plot.
And everything I posted is relevant. Explain why Anglian Water wasting 1/5 of what we pay them is 'irrelevant' to the cost of water? Explain why letting vast amounts of pumped water leak out before it gets to the consumer doesnt affect the cost of the service?
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We are allowed to fill waterbutts with hoses but not water your plot with it. If I need to fill my watercan from a tap that is being used to water a plot with a hose, I leave the hose disconnected afterwards, with the tap turned off. We are on a water meter and water bills increasing, has been the cause of our last 3 rent rises. Personally, I am against hose pipes on the site. We used to have 1 tap for about every 25 plots, we now have 1 tap per 5 plots so hoses are not needed. If you are fit and well enough to work an allotment, you are fit and well enough to carry a watering can. All new tenants are informed of the benefits of having a water butt when taking over the plot.
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I'd like to see your system work on our site...after all it relies heavily on something we don't get.....Rain!
We have had very little rain since February so filling up butts on site is also not possible. My guess is there will be a lot of hosepipe bans in place next year. Unless we have a lot of rain over the winter the entire Thames Water Area will be desparately short of water. It is still bone dry hear two feet down, so it will have to rain a considerable amount before the water table starts to fill up again.
I really do not see the point in having a hose pipe ban and then allowing someone to pump it straight out of the butt.
I have used a great deal of mulching. Even my parsnips are mulched up.
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We are allowed to fill waterbutts with hoses but not water your plot with it. If I need to fill my watercan from a tap that is being used to water a plot with a hose, I leave the hose disconnected afterwards, with the tap turned off. We are on a water meter and water bills increasing, has been the cause of our last 3 rent rises. Personally, I am against hose pipes on the site. We used to have 1 tap for about every 25 plots, we now have 1 tap per 5 plots so hoses are not needed. If you are fit and well enough to work an allotment, you are fit and well enough to carry a watering can. All new tenants are informed of the benefits of having a water butt when taking over the plot.
Exactly the same at our site.
However, it doesn't stop people sneaking in while it's still dark and using a hose, hoping that nobody will see them. >:(
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Banned totally on our site about 15 years ago.
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No hoses here either, either barrels that fill from your shed roof, or there are taps with barrels under them but we use with caution as we pay for the water. I use my saved stuff and only resort to the tap when I need to...
Mulch mulch mulch!
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Well its ok if you have a supply of mulching material......................
Actually, theres an open day thing on in the village atm and thers an Anglian Water Roadshow Trailer, so i just went and asked them, they denied any knowledge of any hosepipe ban in the forseeable future. So thats straight from the horses mouth.
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We self imposed a ban last year, just before the water company did, sick of seeing people using hoses to turn their site into paddy fields. Apart from that, it's useless to stand spraying the top leaves of fruit bushes and potatoes in the morning (this is what they were doing) as, unless you water to the roots, it dries up :-\
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Well its ok if you have a supply of mulching material......................
Straw. Lots of it, a bale at a time if needs be.
....Then you won't have to go explaining your rationale to all and sundry when they suss you out for being water-greedy. :P
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Years ago we took a vote on our site and it was unanimously agreed that we wanted to have hose pipes.
They are the things which are usually over used by novices who do not have a clue about gardening but we keep an eye out and get rid of them straight away.
Our water costs are less than £10 per member per year. But we all feel that £10 a year is a price well spent.
Novices over use water and none of our plot holders are novices. No plot on our site has been relinquished for re-letting for five years. We are all dedicated gardeners.
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How do you get rid of novices Mavis.?
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I'd like to see your system work on our site...after all it relies heavily on something we don't get.....Rain!
It does work in the veg plots that I work on in dry areas, in fact some of the best water capture designs came from school kids themselves. Unless you live in the dessert, it does rain and you need to be devious in how you capture it during the winter so that you can use it in the summer. It does rain in Cambs, I know as used to live there. Throwing your hands up and saying 'it'll never work here' is just defeatist.
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we keep an eye out and get rid of them straight away
:o :o
Surely this years novice will turn into a future experienced gardener. You have to start somewhere.
Straw used to be burned off, I am not sure I know what happens to it now. Rather a lot seems to end up in huge bales which are far to big for the amateur gardener to transport. Straw also makes a terrible mess if you put it into a car.
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We usually have a delivery of straw every year. People let me know how many bales they want and the farmer delivers it. Last year I think we had about 130.
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Straw also makes a terrible mess if you put it into a car.
Not as much mess as it does when you fill the car with manure.
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Definately not the 'novices' who are responsible for paddy field style watering on our site. Its the people who have the time during the day to get there early, get their hose connected and talk to other plot holders for hours on end whilst their veggies float around their plots like a floating Thai market.
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Hoses are allowed on our site but out of the 24 plots only a handful of people use them.
We are metered and pay our own bill...its never much..think the last one for the year was something like £261......thats less than my bill for home!
I should had that the bill is shared equally between each plot whether you use a hosepipe or not.There have been a couple of moans but it never came to much.
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Getting straw in bulk is a great idea Squash 64. Can you remember how much it cost you per bale?
Regards
Bluecar
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Hoses are allowed on our site but out of the 24 plots only a handful of people use them.
lol when i first read that i thought it said 'horses', which baffled me somewhat until i realised the difference..........
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Getting straw in bulk is a great idea Squash 64. Can you remember how much it cost you per bale?
Regards
Bluecar
I think it was £2.25 per bale but it's probably gone up this year.
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No hoses on our site, self-filling troughs
Watering can in each hand, great workout and cheaper than the gym!!
Although I'm lucky enough to be fit enough to do that - not so much fun for the older plot holders
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Luckily I'm in a position (I live very close to my plot and as I'm on my own my time is my own) to water as I will.... As I'm also generally busy and given that this year the plot could have done with more water than I gave it I'm rigging an autowatering system for next year based on a pair of IBC 1000 litre tanks as resevoirs and a solar pump to fill header tanks which then feed leaky pipes running off autowatering systems at night .... to fill the resevoirs (they'll take the guttering from the polytunnel but I doubt that will be enough in summer) I can get round the hosepipe ban on site by taking a pump that will run off my C5's battery and pumping water from the troughs on site to the resevoir ... in the evenings I'm the only one there so draining the trough won't matter.
By using a solar fountain to refill the headers but having the autoowatering happen at night I'll never have the situation of weater being pumped into a header when the watering is on.... the overflows from the headers go back into the resevoir..... rigged sensibly I reckon I cna make 2000 litres last ten days watering the polytunnel, beans and spuds... the last two not every day though....PRobably 200 litres every fourth day...
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chriscross1966
Crikey thats £5 (here in sussex) worth of water every ten days so thats £45 assuming you only water in june july and august which is rather unlikely so say £60 quid so either water is very cheap where you are, you don't have a meter, other people on the allotment will pay for you or you'll be paying a lot of rent!
PS some bans are a ban on hosepipes so just cos you are pumping it into resevoirs doesn't mean you are obeying the rules unless you avoid using one completely.
MULCH!!!!!!!!!!!!It's amazing stuff.
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No water on our site, just whatever water butts each person sets up on their own plot. Never seen anyone using hoses from butts- just watering cans. Hard work in a hot summer but hasn't been too bad this year! ::)
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I'd like to see your system work on our site...after all it relies heavily on something we don't get.....Rain!
It does work in the veg plots that I work on in dry areas, in fact some of the best water capture designs came from school kids themselves. Unless you live in the dessert, it does rain and you need to be devious in how you capture it during the winter so that you can use it in the summer. It does rain in Cambs, I know as used to live there. Throwing your hands up and saying 'it'll never work here' is just defeatist.
Yes it does rain in Cambs...we often see it going past in the distance!!!
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Yes it does rain in Cambs...we often see it going past in the distance!!!
I know it rains in Cambs as I used to live in Huntingdon. ;)
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That is far enough away for it to miss us...was raining today in Hilton but not ST Ives. My water butt still has not even filled this year.
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I think! but cannot be sure that our water payment used to be incorporated in with our allotment bill. New for this year £12 water bill seperate, plus allotment rent fee. Posted in another heading about the rises. I hope and pray the council dont ban us using water pipes as I am not able to carry watering cans, I get pains in my chest with the weigh of it. I do have lots of water butts though and if it happened then I think I would have to work a way out to run hosepipe from butt for watering.
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Slightly off the main subject of the thread but worth putting it on here..
Sometime in the late Nineties Zimbabwe had a massive drought. Like 10% of a normal season of rain for a few years. We had very strict water rationing imposed. If you had no private borehole water we were restricted to 20 cubic meters per month with heavy fines for overuse and hosepipe bans. But the wording had a loophole as it said no watering of gardens with a hosepipe... only cans and buckets allowed.
We were at a business park and there was a chap watering his business flowerbeds and lawn with a watering can with a rose fitted.... The funny thing was that he had a hosepipe in the can filling it whilst he was watering - great thinking that man.. ;D We spoke to him and he said he confirmed with the local council and it was legal.. So much for enforcement!
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I've known people do the same on our site. It's perfectly legal as the only thing that's banned is watering directly with a hose.
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The allotments department at Birmingham council is facing a massive bill for water. Surely we should be cutting down on the amount of water we use, rather than thinking of ways to get around the ban on hoses?
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Very good point squash we should all be thinking about how much water we use and I think on the whole most of us do. Weather your site permits hoses or if it is water by can only as ours is there will always be somebody who just wastes water ::)Ive witnessed twenty or so cans of water being poured on a small raised bed ( must be growing rice) ;D I was always taught that you need to encourage roots to search for water but i suppose you cant tell some people ::)
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If you only have a ban on hoses, what do you expect people to do? You can't, for instance, instal a water butt if you don't know where to get one. We've now got Birmingham City Council to promise to circulate details of local sources. It's a step in the right direction, but unless people are taught how to set up trickle systems, which are the most economical on water, and pointed towards affordable sources of the equipment, nothing much is going to change. If they just wave threats about, and do nothing positive, I don't think anyone can complain much if people look for ways round their rules.
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We got 50 wheelie bins from our recycling centre, Robert. A few have to be used as storage as they have splits in but the rest are being used as water butts, no chance of anything like that, ?
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That might be one answer. I was at the allotments conference not long ago, and some of us asked the Council to circulate contact details for suppliers; they've promised to do it in the next newsletter.