Allotments 4 All
Produce => Pests & Diseases => Topic started by: brownowl23 on July 29, 2011, 22:30:23
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Some of you may know my mum has been very ill recently with loads of blood clots all over her body and was critically ill for a while. My father also has a heart attack earlier this year
Ive been to my parents today, and asked how thier beans were doing. My hubby had planted them as my dad was recooperating, and the bean trench spans the width of his garden. Thier garden has two houses/gardens at the back, and dad has some of the dreded leylandi to blow the view of the houses, these are just behind his bean trench. dad has had issues with one of the neighbours trying to cut back the tree his side as far back as the trunk, which means leaning right over the garden.
Now for the main point. The half of the bean trench that is in line with this guys garden has had most of the bean plants die, they were all very healthy plants. The other half of the trench are doing well, as are the excess ones that are now in my allotment. The leylandi on that side too are going very brown from the base to about 6/7 foot heigh, the others behind the other garden are just fine.
dad suspects that the trees are beign sprayed with weedkiller or something like that , which would have of course killed the beans that side. He suspects this was going on last year too. His concern is that of course they have been eating the beans all year, and wonders if this could have caused or be part of the cause of mums illness as she had been very fit until then.
My question is what can dad do about this. do we confront the guy, do we call in the police, or what. dad hasnt been able to catch the guy in action, not that I think the guy would be stupid enough to do anything at a time that dad could see him.
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May i suggest that you get in touch with the enviroment office where your parents live ASAP. They will test the soil for anything that is still there & go from there . I believe the Town Hall & council will advise you where they are.
I hope it is not the cause of your mothers illness, but this could be investigated.
Rosebud.
Do let us know how you get on ;D.
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I would also start collecting soil samples maybe a weekday each week so that you can perhaps see if there are any changes in the chemicals in the soil.
I would strongly advise NOT to speak to the neighbour until you have gathered your evidence.
If you have the technical ability i would consider fitting a camera with good night vision or one that will work in the light available at night to monitor what's happening.
Good luck...
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This is dreadful, get someone involved, these are food crops and some sprays are very toxic, this could be construed at attempted murder..you definatley need to find out.
XX Jeannine
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As there is a strong visual difference in the condition of plants/hedge either side of the dividing line of houses suggest taking photos now as part of evidence.
There are some horrible people around, last thing your parents need now is this sort of stress and nastiness.
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Leylandii don't take kindly to being trimmed back hard, even on one side, so they may well be dying simply because of that.
But if the neighbour is indeed spraying them with something, it is exceedingly unlikely that it will have contributed to either of your parents' illnesses. The obvious things to use are glyphosate, sodium chlorate (now banned, but there's plenty of old stock in people's sheds), or a brushwood killer like triclopyr.
All of these will kill the beans, but none could transfer into the edible beans themselves in any way that would be poisonous.
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I agree with all of the above but just on the outside chance the beans arent in manure are they? As this is what you would expect to see if you had aminopyralid damage to.
Good luck with everything
X sunloving
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Thanks for all you help folks. I knew that several heads would be better than just mine on this.
Sun Loving - No they arent in manure, just compost from dads heap. So no chance of aminopyralid damage.
Melbourne12 - the guy stopped trimming them back at all once dad pointed out that to lean over the fence that far was not only causing the guy danger ( of falling head first over the fence with a chian saw) but actually trespassing on dads property.
I hadnt thought about the enviromntal office, sensible place to start. Now if I had been in my old job (from way back) I could have go hold of survellance gear like cameras, sadly I dont work in that field anymore.
Will definately get dad to take soil samples and start gathering evidence. Meanwhile look slike my beans are now feeding 6 instead of 4!!
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It is possible that the beans are suffering because the Leylandii are drawing all the moisture from the soil they are in.
If the Leylandii have been trimmed hard beyond the green growth they will be brown and not grow again where trimmed. Are the Leylandii looking healthy in the tops of the trees, if treated with weedkiller I would not expect the tops of the trees to look at all healthy.
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My neighbour has a Leylandii hedge and it is sheding dead material from the lower half of the trees from drought, And my plants underneath it are not looking so good.
I would talk to your neighbour personally. But do not assume he is spraying weedkiller unless you have seen him do it or have some other evidence.
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Denby and ipt8 - my fathers garden is big and long (roughly 300ft) and used to back on to the fields fo a childrens home, it now back on two 2 houses. The part that backs on to one house is fine both the trees and the beans are growing well, the part that backs on to the suspected neighbour has brown trees and only 3 bean plants. Even from the kitchen window you can see the distinct difference and the obvious boundary of which house each part backs on to because of the brown trees.
Therefore if it was drought or lack of moisture it would affect all the trees and beans not just the half backing on to the one house. hence the suspicion that said neighbour is trying to poison the trees and the ohter neighbour is not.
We wont speak to the guy direct but I guess I shall involve the enviroment office for firstly advice and dependant on what they say possibly action guided by them.
The biggest question I guesss would be if it is weedkiller (and of course this is assumption until proven otherwise) and the spray was landing on beans that my dad picked later that day/next day, would this have had effect on thier health. Its not going to make the beans loook poorly and if its only a fine mistt may not make the plants die. But what effect would it have on a person eating them. Beans just get topped tailed, sliced and put in water to be cooked and served. Oh and in mums house bean water is used in gravy.
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We once had a similar problem, we planted a leylandii to block being overlooked from a window that the nighbour installed that actually opened out and into our garden. We wondered why it just 'wasnt taking', the neighbours wall was against it and there was a window above. One day when it rained I could see the ground foaming around the conifer.
Believing that the neighbours were pouring something nasty from above onto the plant I put a couple of washing up bowls around the base of the conifer to trap anything that was poured. Within a few months the conifer was back to normal and a few months later the neighbours moved.
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Suggest you also ask environment office if spray could potentially have affected the beans your parent ate.
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Be aware that, if you plant a row of leylandii against a neighbours house, you would be liable for any damage the trees did to the house. My neighbours with the leylandii (which forms 3 walls of their garden) have already faced one such suit from their other neighbour.
I would have thought that a new window as described by RBT would require planning permission and at a minimum would have to be obscure glass with any opening panes at least 1.7m above floor level. I would have taken it up with the council, leylandii would be Plan B.
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Could you not persuade your Dad to get the Leylandii cut down? Personally I think they should be banned in gardens which border other peoples, and I wouldnt blame anyone for taking drastic action to try to kill the evil things.
Their neighbour is probably at their wits end but completely unaware of the dangers of spraying the trees (if that is what they are doing). Surely your parents health and good neighbour relationships are more important than maintaining a row of antisocial trees?
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I have to say if I thought I could even try to persuade him to cut the tops offf I would have done it a long time ago. I too hate leylandii.
Dads 77 and I can still vividly 20 + years ago remember the conversations we had when he first decided that they were to be put in. Went something along the lined of "if they are going to put houses on those playing fields then im going to d**n well put in fast growing tall trees so that we keep our privacy.
Now in part I can see his point as the only fencing that was put up between the houses was metal fencing thta you can see through. If it had been me, I would have put up a high wooden fence or even a wall and grown something up it. Guess a few leylandiii trees were cheaper than my options.
I can see once I have found out whats going on, with help that I then become a friendly mediator, just hope the guy is willing to talk.
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I'm kind of with lewic on this, whilst I sympathise with yuour parents plight currently, I'd have made it a criminal offence to even keep a leylandii (let alone plant one) years ago
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Yikes! 20 years and no trim? :o
Well, it is sad when you have had a view across fields and then a housing estate gets built on the land. But he shouldn't punish the people who move in. The people who profitted from the sale of the land are the ones to blame and sounds as if that was the Council.
I would tell your Dad it's time to get over it and cut the trees down and chill. Then focus on what's important: his health and your Mum's. Very sorry to hear about them, but the last thing they need is a war with the neighbours.
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Denby - No trim! :o OMG no, they get a regular haircut courtesy of my cousin who is a tree surgeon. Oh my if they hadnt been trimmed in that long i'd say the neighbours would be entitled to set a flame thrower on them!!
Dads gonna take some persuading to part with them. I might suicceed with lopping the tops of to make a hedge as a compromise, if that will appease the neighbour.
Its a really difficult one when you are dealing with upset neighbours and parents in their 70's and 80's who are stubborn as mules!!
Everyone has permission to shoot me if I get stubborn over something like that, or in fact if I turn into my parents in any way!! :)
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Brown Owl have no fear we all turn into our parents ;D ;D ;D. Our eldest laughs about it but we are in our 60s she might not laugh as we get dottier ::).
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^^ :'(
But I know how it is, in fact most of us do with elderly parents we are trying to look after while having zillions of other responsibilities.
That's why I would speak to the neighbour - even talking to him might make him see that a solution might be closer than he thinks.
30 years ago leylandii was seen as a good cheap screen, now it is seen as the hedge from hell. Times change.
Hope you Mum is better soon.
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Leylandii's do poison the ground around them, maybe that's why the eans are doing badly, the trimming is causing them to release more of the nastes that they do as a stress/survival response....
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chris cross - aha so that might explain why one lot of leylandii and beans are doing oK and one lot are looking os poorly. See I knew that more heads were better than one.
Perhaps an alternative and easier t=route might be to persuade my dad to move his bean trench. Dh wont like this as he will be the one that has to dig out a new one but hey ho it might be a good solution all round.
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If he has such a long garden, why is he growing veg so far away down the end of it? I'd try and
A. persuade him to move his veggies nearer the house nxt year.
B. Cut the trees down to hedge height!
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ahh well the layout of the garden cpmes from the fact that we had two great big apple trees nearer the house originallly and a bit of an orhcard a bit further down. Mum liked her garden to look like a garden as in flowers not veggies. so the veggies got relagated to the bottom end. The bean trench has been where it is for most of my life. So getting him to change is going to take some persuasion and my mohter has apparently been trying to get him to move it.
Still im going over there tomorrow so will see how far I get with suggesting moving it next year and suggesting we call in my cousin for a bit of a harsher tree trim this year. i.e make it more a hedge than reaching for the skies. :-\
Wish me luck!!! im gonna need it ::)
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The best of luck with your mission Brown Owl and keep us informed of developments. My neighbours put up 6ft fences at each side and huge untrimmed buddlia. Garden now in shade most of the day and nowt much grows in the borders. Trying to keep privacy can cause so much misery for others.
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well having been to dads today, I think I have at least managed to persuade him to find his bean plants a better home for next year. so round one hopefully won.
The leylandii trees got a closer inspection and the guy behind has trimmed the trees right back to the trunk to about 12-15ft high or more. it was difficult to see where the branches started again unoless I actually got in the thick of the trees. So I guess oif hard pruning like that causes them stress enough to put toxins back in the soil then that may well be the cause.
As to whether I can persuade them to have the rees chopped off at the top. well..... I did suggest it, but if looks could kill i'd have dug my own grave and buried myself 6ft under.
So I guess ive made a bit of progress.
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At least you have won one battle.
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I think I would go down the road of persuading him to "make life easier" by bringing the veg patch nearer to the house! Which as he is getting on must be easier and with some careful planning veg patches can look decorative too - so that will please your mum too!
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well the plot thickens or should I say perhaps is unravelled a bit.
Apparently ( according to my sister) when the arguement erupted with dads neighbour a couple of years ago about him cutting the tree back to the trunk, both neighbour and dad were up ladders either side of the fencie hitting each other with things (not sure what things). It apparently got very ugly. My sister ended up pulling my dad off his ladder and frog marching him kicking and screaming back to the house before somone ended up getting done for GBH.
I can understand my dad not wanting the neiighbour to be leaning over his property cutting the trees right back to the trunk, especially as your only supposed to cut things back to your boundary. The neighbour would also have been putting himself in danger hanging over a metal pointy fence with a chain saw, if he fell he'd have been impaled. dad would have been defending his property, however clearly not going the best way about it.
So my chances now of me getting dad to cut his trees down is a lot less than 0. getting him to move his veg patch will be a big enough acheivement.
As far as I am concerned the person who first marketed these d**n treees as a good way to create a barrier between properties should be shot!!! I am willing to do the shooting!
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Perhaps I ought to add to this my dad isnt a violent man, so for him to be doing something stupoid like being up a tree being violent does mean that he must have been pushed to his limits. KNowing my dads reputation for not calling 999 even in a medical emergency it wouldnt have crossed his brain to call the police!
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May I ask: how tall are these trees exactly? And how far away are they from the neighbours house (i.e. does he have a 100ft long garden or is it more like 25ft) ?
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Denby - I know what your getting at and no the trees arent big enought YET! to cause damage to their house if they fell. ifneither do they actually block the light from thier garden as the shade falls on dads side fortunately. If they were in danger of causing damage to their property in a storm them I could persuade dad to have them cut a bit in order not to end up with an insurance bill :)
for the neighbour they are unsightly, without beign chopped back they obviously intrucde into the grden and I totally agree with the neighbour that he is entitled to cut them back to his boundary, but NOT to the trunk.
To be fair on dad if the neighbour had come and asked nicely if dad would mind having them chopped a bit and gave his reasons in a pleasant way, dad would have been ameanble and got my cousin to come and give them a very harsh hair cut. Not asking and chopping them so severely has caused the problem and the resulting issues.
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^^ no, that wasn't it, it's just that you said your neighbour hacked at them to a height of 15 ft or even higher. So I wondered how tall they actually were and if your neighbours garden is small they must be sucking the life out of it.
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they are about 50ft tall. So yes I guess they would be sucking life out of the garden.
I have to say its a really difficult one, as I hate the beasts, and wouldlop them down to ground level in a an instant. But of course its not my garden and I have to contend with a cantancerous (sp?) 77 year old!
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50 ft?? ******* *** !!!
You can see by how few posts you are getting here that people aren't in agreement with your Dad. But if fact your Dad is going through a bad time; his wife is ill and he's scared. And he's stubborn; keeping the trees is one way to show the world he's still in control - still alive and kicking.
But you know, if they are that tall, the neighbour must be able to get the Council to serve a rectification order on him. And it's going to be a pro job to take them down to even eaves height.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Denby I dont agree with dad either!!
Actually thinking about it I dont think they are that high, not standing by them when asked that question it not easy to gauge. 50ft is very high!
If the neighbour got an order it would in some ways make things easier for me and my sis to sort it out. Dad wouldnt have a choice and we wouldnt have to try to persuade him. It would make my life alot easier.
Fortunately my cousin is a tree surgeon so getting a pro on board isnt a problem, and it wouldnt cost them tooo much. well not as much as if they didnt have someone in the family.
Sadly as they are dads trees its not my decision..................... its just for me to wear dad down with my powers of persuasion.
Im going to have to leave the tree situation for a bit though as im going to bebad daughter this week and no doubt for a while as im taking him to get his tablets sorted out that he has been putting off for weeks and im going to be asking for the docs to refer him for a hearing test.
Joys of having elderly parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you think he'd notice if I whipped em off for a day somewhere and got my cousin in :o
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Well I went over to dads today and was in the garden. He has already lopped the tops off the trees, it was only when I looked from the house that I realised this, they have no tops at all. Mum said they had this done a couple of years ago as they had got way too tall and they didnt want them causing damage to a neighbours house if the fell
They could do with a hair cut at the minute though to tidy them up and lose a bit of bushy ness dad agrees but says he cant do it which I can quite understand
I looked at the conifers that border the sides of his garden (planted in the gardens eitherside so not his) these trees are about another 3rd taller than his leylandii, they make his leylandii look respectable in a scruffy way.
The neighbour at the back has stripped the trees to the trunk to the top, its no wonder they are not looking healthy.
dads not coping with the garden at all, but being that ive hurt my back im barely keeping up with my allotment with hubby and kids help so there is no chance of my getting digging whilst im there. Sad really as the garden has always been mum and dads pride and joy.
Its amazing how much more information I get about the garden when mum is more compusmentus and when I open my eyes and look :)