Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: Squash64 on July 12, 2011, 08:25:32
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I've just got back home from walking the dogs and as I pulled into the drive a man on a motorbike passed me - with a child sitting behind him on the bike. She was aged about 8/9 and did have a crash helmet on but had bare legs. I hope he doesn't have to stop suddenly because she will go flying into the road.
We have to wear safety-belts in cars, but what protects passengers on motor bikes?
I'm really concerned now about this little girl.
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I agree Squash, very dangerous indeed.
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I hate to see babes and tots on the back of pedal cycles.
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Everyone on a motorbike should wear full protecting leathers, the resulting damage to the body from sliding along the road when they come off is just too horrible to even imagine.
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Crikey, that sounds a foolhardy thing to do. Why would anyone subject a child to such danger? In my opinion it's bad enough being on the back of a bike, let alone without leathers. :o
You can be the safest rider in the world but there are plenty who are not and are the cause of accidents.
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The fool hardy law states that the minimum requirement to ride a bike is Helmet and Gloves.
Few years back my son came off at fifty miles an hour with full leathers on and he had gravel rash down one side of him. He was lucky to get up and carry on with his life.
Trouble with that is the fact that I beat the emergency services to him and they were astonished to see me holding his neck in one position.
They asked me if I had witnessed it and I said no just the father. That surprised them. :D
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i agree very dangerous and stupid if the girl came off and was lucky enough not to suffer any broken bones the gravel rash is painful on its own with out getting any bacteria in it from the road surface i know from personal experience so i go out properly booted and suited even on a small cc bike went to a course a few weeks ago and left one of my gloves behind so went back and asked the course instructor if he seen my glove so him being a smart alec said why do you need gloves for its red hot out side (helmet slung over my arm)so i said ill need them if i come off it was an health and safety course ( what a wally)
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Sadly we are growing a society that seems to no regard to safety towards their children, if they (the adult)wish to act irresponsible, fine, but do not subject anyone else to their whims :)
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STUPID FOOL. As a rider myself I always wear leather or special jeans and jackets that have built in protection. I have seen people in shorts, t shirts and flip flops and cringe when I think of what would happen, even at slow speeds. Skin strips vey easily and can leave scars for life. They should be reported to the police as that child is in their care and should be safeguarded against injuries.
It gets hot in all the proper gear, but wind up the throttle and get a move on you will soon cool down with a wind chill of 70mph or a tad more if there are no cameras about. ;) If you want to flash your bits, get a nissan micra an drive around naked. Nobody will take offence at you, they might get a bit annoyed at being held up at 25 mph though.
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Ooooer Betty naked in a nissan micra. ;D
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http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_724057_categoryId_165542_langId_-1?cm_sp=Intelligent_Offer-_-Product_List_Zone_1-_-Blank&iozone=PLPz1
I know it's not the same thing but I've always thought these things were dangerous,so flimsy if something runs into them. :o
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http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_724057_categoryId_165542_langId_-1?cm_sp=Intelligent_Offer-_-Product_List_Zone_1-_-Blank&iozone=PLPz1
I know it's not the same thing but I've always thought these things were dangerous,so flimsy if something runs into them. :o
Basically if you are on a bike and someone runs into you then you are in do-do regardless. Personally I love to see kids transported on bikes as long as it is done sensibly (not motorised bikes btw) - at least they are not stuck in a car. The amount of traffic generated by the school run is nuts here in London. ...
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Very dangerous. Other half got knocked of his motor bike couple years ago and as never really fully recoversd. Car driver turned right without signaling as he was overtaking. Thank god he had all the right kit on because I don't think he would be here today. Perhaps its just me. But life seems to have become cheap the more the world becomes over populated.
macmac there great for tranfering gardening kit to the allotments ;D wouldn't put a child in one though, not the way they drive round here.
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What a brilliant idea Taurus :)
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Ooooer Betty naked in a nissan micra. ;D
Being naked is nothing to worry about - it's the thought of getting the Micra up to 25mph that's bothering me.
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I don't think it has anything to do with life being cheap or society having no regard to safety towards children. It's one person who clearly lacks the capacity to care for one child. That is all and that is why it stands out.
I think society in general is very (some would say perhaps overly) protective of children - remember the climbing frames you had in school as a kid? They're not there now. Child seats and seat belts in cars? We used to roll around in the back of the Sherpa van in a cloud of dad's cigarette smoke. CRB checks, enhanced CRB checks, risk assessments before school trips, nut allergy warnings on everything, grapes needing to be cut in half before sending them in to school, walking to school with your children instead of sending them off from the front gate... the list goes on! Society gives us plenty of cotton wool in which to wrap our little cherubs.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one.
But is there anything I could do about it? I have a feeling the man must live in my road as I saw him pull into a drive as I was going past.
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Betty, you're obviously very concerned - do you have Community Police you could speak to? Ours round here in S.B'ham are very approachable and are great at having a 'quiet word' where necesary to sort things out, without getting 'formal' about things.
I really had v. mixed feelings about the CP, but I must say they actually do do a great job by sorting stuff out before it escalates, so I'm thinking that if poss. a quiet word by them to the father of the child to point out the bl**din obvious, might do the trick?
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I've lost count of the times abroad that I've seen a family of four on a scooter, dad in his flip flops, mum with her shopping and the two kids sitting in front of dad. :(
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It sounds to me like endangering a minor actually, a call to Social Services might be in order.It may just be a parent who doesn't realise the danger on a bike but if may indicate a general lack of concern and they may be aware of other things. If they have no previous history with this family they may have a gentle chat with the parent..or may not..if there is more they would be appreciative of the report. It is anonymous for you, they can't reveal their source.
If they are a good family but uninformed about the dangers you could be helping therm, maybe the bike is new and they simply don't know.
I would have to do something.
XX Jeannine
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OMG how very British.
Go abroad and you will see all sort of terrible things in other countries which will keep your gob smacked open so wide you wont be able to draw breath.
Actually it is not safe. I do agree.
Remeber though, this child is loved by her father/mother who is allowing this to happen.
NOW
Child A
There is the parent who is going out on their bike and they are leaving the child home alone.
The child is left alone and is stressed.
Child B
There is the parent who is going out on their bike and taking the child with them
The child is happy.
I do not know the risk of child B having an accident but I do know that child B is 100% unhappy. Child A is stressed and that could cause probems
Think about it.
RISK is part of life
As a fifteen year old in the 1960s my most memorable experience is doing a ton without a crash helmet as the pillion on my then 18 year old boyfriend's motorbike. The wind made a funny noise on my dangly earings I can still hear it now in my memory. It was totally legal then and great fun
In the event of an accident or incident the authorities and the insurance companies will sort it out.
Most people survive unscathed. Some people do not.
We legislate for the majority. Quite right too.
That is why we have those totally uncomfortable straps in cars called seat belts Hate them personally and I shove a large hand bag between me and them whilst riding as a passenger to stop them stangulating me.
Road safety? well the best idea would be to stay at home all the time. But who knows what might drop from the sky.
Kids used to play out. Now they stay home watch TV and play on computers.
Is that healthy?
It is not that I do not agree with you about road safety. It is that I think that there are things which are more important
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Having worked in a Head Injury unit I strongly disagree that "most come out unscathed"
Roads are more heavily populated now and cars/bikes achieve higher speeds.
Many kids/adults who are not "strapped in" are the ones who rocket through windows and hi the tarmac....or hit the driver/front seat passenger killing them or causing major head and neck injuries.
Risk is a part of life, but as parents we have a responsibility to minimise it (within reasonable and legal limits) to protect children until they can make their own risk assessments/decisions.
Many kids do play out (mine included) and are healthy fit and well-balanced.
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Absolutely Hector..totally agree with you..what more can I add..shh Jeannine
XX Jeannine
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I cannot remember a time when it was "legal" to drive a motorbike at 100 mph? :-X
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It doesn't really matter what our opinion is. I am sure that in this country it is against the law to have a child on the back of a motorbike. Leathers or no leathers.
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I have to say that health and safety rules and legislation are there for just that, to protect people especially children. Alot of people, and I have to say contravertially alot of older people think some of it unnecessary.
I have my own MIL who say let the boys ( my 3 year old twins) do what they want, what does it matter if the end up at A&E!! She wonders why i dont let her look after them.
The thing is that yes its is marginally better to have the kid riding pillion than being left at home. My biggest question would be where the hell is the drivers commonsense and care for the child.
Sadly alot of people just dont think of the consecquences of their actions and the impact it has on others.
Imagine if that kid had been accidentally knocked off that bike by the likes of me, a car driver, how would I have felt as a parent myself and would I have been able to live with myself for killing someone elses kid. No I wouldnt!!!!
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I dont believe there is any age limit for a pillion passenger. If I'm right the only criteria is that they can get both feet on the pegs and if under 17 (i think) need parental permission. I'm a rider and always wear full protective gear no matter what the weather and make sure any pillion does the same. Yes riding without a lid gives a great sense of freedom but so does life and being able to think. Brain damage caused by smacking tarmac at many miles per hour doesn.t.
I've just come back from two weeks in France and watching people hammering down the autoroutes on big bikes in flip-flops, shorts and t-shirts made me cringe. To be honest they might as well not use a lid as the mess they'd be in if they came off doesn't bear thinking about.
The enforcement of seatbelts has probably prevented no end of traumatic head and neck injuries caused by going through the windscreen, or into the back of a front-seat passenger/driver. Got to be worth any percieved discomfort (which would pale into insignificance against a smashed face/neck). Most modern ones are adjustable and you can buy gizmos for a better fit.
Five people a day were killed in traffic accidents last year and around 200k were injured over the year - that has to be important!
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Unfortunately the law is you must wear a crash helmet the rest is up to the individual.
I think it is irresponsible for any parent to a child at risk, and what responsible parent would leave a child alone at home or put them on the back of a motorcycle unprotected.
There is risk in every day life but you do your best to minimise it by taking the proper precautions
In the event of an accident or incident the authorities and the insurance companies will sort it out.
That statement is absolute crap.
Do you not think that the people who have to attend these accidents are not affected by what they see and have to deal with and since when has an insurance company brought a dead child back to life.
Try going to some ones house on Xmas eve to tell them that there daughter will not be attending the party as she has been killed in a motorcycle accident or even worse try taking a dead child from a distraught mother.
If the parent on the motorcycle attended just one motorcycle accident he would have his child wrapped in the best protective clothing you could buy.
What price do you put on a child's life
Most people that say " It wont happen to me " get away with it, some don't get to finish the sentence
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It doesn't really matter what our opinion is. I am sure that in this country it is against the law to have a child on the back of a motorbike. Leathers or no leathers.
It isn't against the law per se, as far as I can tell as there is no age limit at all. The issue has been raised in the HoP before but I think the law remained the same. There is no requirement for anything other than a crash helmet and some vague mumblings about the bike being fitted with suitable pegs...
Only motorcyclists who have passed a motorcycle test can carry passengers. (Regulation 16 of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999)
The machine must be equipped with suitable supports or rests for the feet of the pillion passenger. (Regulation 102 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986)
Pillion passengers must be capable of sitting astride a proper seat securely fixed to the motorcycle.
This may require specific adaptations to accommodate young children. (Section 23(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988)
A pillion passenger must wear a safety helmet. (Motor Cycles (Protective Helmets) Regulations 1998)
So what this chap did is not illegal - it may be dumb or not but there seems to be a bit of an over reaction if you ask me - god forbid that social services get involved.
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This sort of thing makes me insane. >:( As a biker, and the wife of a biker, we both go mental when we see people riding along with a pillion with no protective gear. What does he hope will protect her in the event of an accident? Sun-block? Jesus. By all means, take risks with your own safety if you want to, but leave your kids out of it. Grrr.
Whenever one of our kids is on the back of a bike with us (and they are 18 and 17 now), they are (and always were) wearing full protective gear, including a back protector.
Risk is part of life - but not putting yourself in needless danger. And the single biggest treasure you have as a parent is your kid. Why would you EVER endanger that?
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totally agree and frankly I cannot,no matter how hard I try, see another angle to this one.As far as I am concerned it is endangerement of a minor..chargable here
XX Jeannine
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Im just a bit surprised at how judgemental people can be when they don't have full knowledge of the facts. For all we know it could have been the one and only time he did this, we don't know how fast he was going or how long he was on the bike - suppose he was cruising along a 5mph and just to the end of the road and back - would that be so bad? He was within the law regarding bikes and I think in the Uk we don't have specific endangerment laws (could be wrong) so you would have to allege child abuse..
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When on holiday in Thailand , seemed an everyday occurrence, dad with the crash helmet and mum and two children on a moped plus shopping on the handlebars
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When on holiday in Thailand , seemed an everyday occurrence, dad with the crash helmet and mum and two children on a moped plus shopping on the handlebars
That's because the man is (normally the main) the bread winner, and if you only buy 1 crash helmet, the bread winner will be wearing it.
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Im just a bit surprised at how judgemental people can be when they don't have full knowledge of the facts. For all we know it could have been the one and only time he did this, we don't know how fast he was going or how long he was on the bike - suppose he was cruising along a 5mph and just to the end of the road and back - would that be so bad? He was within the law regarding bikes and I think in the Uk we don't have specific endangerment laws (could be wrong) so you would have to allege child abuse..
and suppose some idiot had careered into them-not his fault re. the way he was riding his bike, but as for the consequenses to the child who was improperly clad-it doesn't bear thinking about.
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Ask yourself this.If you had a visitor who had a bike and two hemets and he offered to take your child for a ride and it was in regular clothes or shorts would you let it go?
XX Jeannine
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Ask yourself this.If you had a visitor who had a bike and two hemets and he offered to take your child for a ride and it was in regular clothes or shorts would you let it go?
XX Jeannine
Unfortunately I don't have kids so can't comment but I certainly wouldn't condemn others for doing what they think is right.
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Unfortunately I don't have kids so can't comment but I certainly wouldn't condemn others for doing what they think is right.
Because somebody thinks it is right, it doesn't follow that it is right. It is totally irresponsible to take a child on a motorcycle at any speed without proper protective clothing. Not against the law, but common sense should have been applied. I could not live with myself if my children were scarred because of my actions. But then I must have different values than some posters on here. Being a one time badassed biker, I could chose what I would wear, with children who know no different and sometimes no fear it is the parents responsibility to make sure they are safe.
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Because somebody thinks it is right, it doesn't follow that it is right.
Of course - which also means that just because you think somethink is right (in this case how to dress on a MB) - it doesn't follow that you are right either. ;)
I just prefer not to judge people based on limited facts. Was it dangerous? (original question) - Maybe? Maybe not? Probably not the safest thing in the world but not reason enough to get the authorites invovled as some have suggested.
I see children on the back of push bikes in London quite a lot - Helmets - DayGo "invisibility" jackets - proper mounted seats - sensible adult riders. Is that safe? Does it endanger the child? If an errant driver hits them then they are toast so according to some of the "logic" on this board they should be reported to Child Services. What about kids on bikes - shouldn't they be banned as well. What about smoking in the house with children - very dangerous - report them as well.
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back to the OP........so what did you do Betty?
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It has started an argument in our house. We can not find an answer to on the internet.
We know when motorways were first introduced there was no speed limit at all.
People, if they had a bike or car which would use it, the 'Ton Up'. Was the thing. Simon Dee used to talk about it on his show on TV. Too young to remember you lot.
But exactly what year was the speed limit on motorways introduced?
It must have been some time in the 1960s. It was not long after the M1 because so many 'incidents' had happened.
Most people do manage to get around unscathed doing dangerous things. That is true but in the event of an accident or incident more people have a better chance of survival if they are wearing protection such as protective head gear or seat belts.
Lots of us here are old enough to remember the days when it was thought of as cissy to wear protection of any kind and seat belts in cars had not been invented.
There were less vehicles on the road of course but there were other dangers.
Vehicles which were unfit to be there (the MOT got rid of them) then there were those which belched black smoke.
I suggest more people in the past like bus and lorry drivers have died a slow death from the exhaust fumes from vehicles than smoking.
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According to this site, it was in 1965
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cartech/are-motorway-speed-limits-too-low-vote-in-our-poll-50004197/
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Temporally introduced in 1965 became law in 1967
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1965/67 was the estimate we had come to so that is a draw for the argument. Thanks
I rather recall there was an interview with Norman Wisdom on TV in the 1980/90s who lived on the Isle of Man and said he liked to drive his car fast and the Island did not have a speed limit unlike mainland UK.
Mind, we have been doing 60-70 on the motorways many times and been passed by cars which made us feel like we were stationary. Heaven only knows what speed they were doing.
Never see speed camera signs on the motorway. Are there any speed cameras there?
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Are there any speed cameras there?
Yes they are called average speed cameras usually big yellow jobbies.I drive or ride my bike at well over the speed limit on motorways and as I do it when it is safe to do so, I don't get tickets. I have even overtaken police vehicles without a pull. They don't bother if you look and act confident. There is no need for a speed limit on motorways more a need for an age limit. Read all about it in my obituary ;D
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back to the OP........so what did you do Betty?
I haven't seen the man and child since. I thought they might live in my road and I've looked out for it every day but I haven't seen it.
Judging by the response from almost everyone here, I am not alone in thinking it's dangerous so hopefully someone has pointed out the danger to the man.
I should be meeting with our local neighbourhood police on another matter soon so I will mention it to them and see what they say.