Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: antsinmipants on June 20, 2011, 08:27:04
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This year we have six new faces on our site. Three of those are hardly ever there and the other three get stuck in and get on with sorting out their respective plots. My concern is with the three who seemingly have no interest in their respective plots as they are never around and it then goes without saying,the weeds have taken over,the grass has blown its seed everywhere leaving plot holders close by in uproar. My point is, why the hell do these people take on something they obviously have no intention of getting stuck into? We have our annual site management inspection in two weeks time and we intend to make sure these people either start to show an interest or get the hell out. All three have been given written warning to seemingly no effect,so I guess three plots will be up for grabs in the very near future. I think these people lay in bed at night with all kinds of great ideas in their head,but in the cold light of day the reality hits them and they simply haven't got it in them to work a plot. We have a ten year waiting list here,but I know this waiting list is bypassed when it suits...if your face fits and all that....somebody on our commitee will come unstuck...watch this space!
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This problem is discussed on here over and over again. I agree with you abou the fanciful dream some folks have about allotments. During last month I was ill for 10 days and Tony only had time to water the plots. We still havent caught up with the weeding, and we go almost everyday.
Its amazing how quickly the plots revert back to nature.
Folks who can only get to their plots at weekends must have to work so hard to keep their plots going.
I think it wise to inform prospective plot holders just how much time they will have to devote to their allotment to keep it cultivated.
Someone on here said that they had starter plots.I think that this is a good idea. If you cannot keep a starter plot cultivated then there is no hope of keeping a full or even a half plot cultivated
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I have a one in five "rule" (not really a rule just can't think of anything else)
Out of five on the waiting list one will turn out to actually want the garden when offered then keep it and look after it. After 5 years as sec. it seems about accurate. ???
Why this happens I could ramble on about for pages! but I won't! ::)
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Perhaps the problem is the 10 year wait, by the time people get to the top of the list they have lost interest or there circumstances will have changed. I will be pleased indeed if I am still willing and able to do my lottie in 10 years time.
Perhaps the deposit is the answer so if they give up in a very short time they will have in effect paid extra rent for delaying the opportunities for others.
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does these allotment committees give back part of the yearly rent if the plot is given up before the end of the year i know at least of one who does not i have spoken to one ex plot holder who said they were planning to give it up at the end of the year and why should they give it up before and let the allotment committee have double money iam not saying this is the the right attitude to take but if one is thinking this there will be others
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This year we have six new faces on our site. Three of those are hardly ever there and the other three get stuck in and get on with sorting out their respective plots. My concern is with the three who seemingly have no interest in their respective plots as they are never around and it then goes without saying,the weeds have taken over,the grass has blown its seed everywhere leaving plot holders close by in uproar. My point is, why the hell do these people take on something they obviously have no intention of getting stuck into? We have our annual site management inspection in two weeks time and we intend to make sure these people either start to show an interest or get the hell out. All three have been given written warning to seemingly no effect,so I guess three plots will be up for grabs in the very near future. I think these people lay in bed at night with all kinds of great ideas in their head,but in the cold light of day the reality hits them and they simply haven't got it in them to work a plot. We have a ten year waiting list here,but I know this waiting list is bypassed when it suits...if your face fits and all that....somebody on our commitee will come unstuck...watch this space!
antsinmipants, take a chill-pill mate, allotmenteering should be gentle and relaxing.
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does these allotment committees give back part of the yearly rent if the plot is given up before the end of the year i know at least of one who does not i have spoken to one ex plot holder who said they were planning to give it up at the end of the year and why should they give it up before and let the allotment committee have double money iam not saying this is the the right attitude to take but if one is thinking this there will be others
Whether the committee are obliged to pay back any rent if the plot is given up before the end of the rent year depends on what the tenancy agreement says.
By default rent is due in arrears and if you quit the tenancy before the end of the year you are only obliged to pay pro rata.
If the tenancy says that rent is due in advance then by default the whole of the rent becomes due on rent day and if you then quit before then end of the year you have no right to anything back. However, it's not unusual for the agreement to make provision for rent to be apportioned and in that case you're automatically entitled to a return of the rent pro-rata.
The landlord is always entitled to accept the surrender of the tenancy if she wants to, but you can't surrender the tenancy as of right, not without the landlord's consent.
Without any provision to the contrary in the agreement you can only give notice to quit the tenancy on either the day or the day before the anniversary of the tenancy (this isn't the day you got the plot, but the date the annual tenancy runs from, and it's not necessarily the same as the rent day, though it probably is). You have to give at least 6 months notice to quit unless the agreement allows for a different period of notice.
If the landlord wants to evict a tenant for poor cultivation the tenant must be served with a notice telling her exactly what rule she is breaking and giving her reasonable time to get the plot under cultivation to the satisfaction of the rule (S.146 Law of Property 1295). The court decides what reasonabe means and in the circumstances it may well decide it's quite a bit longer than the committee gave. Any period specified in the agreement (such as one months for example) is a contractual minimum, and the time allowed still has to be reasonable.
If the cultivation rule is unfairly onerous for whatever reason it's susceptible to a challenge under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 so, as with all contractural terms, it's really important that it doesn't go further than necessary to protect the legitimate interests of the landlord, and that it takes fully into consideration the legitimate interests of the tenant. Unfair terms are simply unenforceable.
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antsinmipants, take a chill-pill mate, allotmenteering should be gentle and relaxing.
Yes it is meant to be all about the gardeners, even if they turn out not to be gardeners after all!
I suppose at the end of the day there are things you can do to improve the situation - starter plot, advice/education, support and enforcement of cultivation rules. But you have to accept there will always be some who fail at it. It's a shame but there it is. All we can do is limit the amount of failures.
It irritates all of us to see unloved plots, and it feels nice to have a moan and be quietly smug if we're honest. ;D I can usually only go at weekends. It's doable. The best plots near me are people who only come at weekends.
Which is what I wish I could tell people when they let their plot go, and say 'well it's because I'm busy'/ 'I work.' I think you only have to come once a week but it needs to be EVERY week - not once a year!! ;D
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This problem is discussed on here over and over again. I agree with you abou the fanciful dream some folks have about allotments. During last month I was ill for 10 days and Tony only had time to water the plots. We still havent caught up with the weeding, and we go almost everyday.
Its amazing how quickly the plots revert back to nature.
Folks who can only get to their plots at weekends must have to work so hard to keep their plots going.
I think it wise to inform prospective plot holders just how much time they will have to devote to their allotment to keep it cultivated.
Someone on here said that they had starter plots.I think that this is a good idea. If you cannot keep a starter plot cultivated then there is no hope of keeping a full or even a half plot cultivated
Shirl - I know how you feel ive had both of my parents seriously ill meaning ive missed time on plot whislt ive been travelling from kent to essex for hospital visits. Even keeping up with fruit picking is a bit of a nightmare right now. As you say weeds do quickly take over.
Im now hoping its all systems back to normal but it will still take me a bit of time to get back on top of the upkeep of the plot. Im there every weekday barring tuesdays, for a couple of hours and generally there at the weekends to with the nippers and hubby.
Boys love this time of year with all the harvest. One of them was most upset yesterday when I turned 6lb of whitecurrants into whitecurrant jelly. I think he thought he was going to eat them all.
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I work 5 days a week and try to put in as many hours as I can at the weekend, during the week I will water and do half an hour of bits and bobs, but I don't get home till about 7 in the evening, however, I love the weekends to make sure I make the most of it and yes it is hard work :).
On our site there are about 6 half plots which seem to be going well, but about 3 normal plots that have not been attended to for the last 3 months and are a state, we have plot inspections every 6 months so maybe they will be re-distributed. :-\
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I am sure that there are lots of people who manage a lottie and a job. It is light at the moment before 5 and not dark again until after 9pm. There are quite a few on our site who pop down for water about 8pm or only manage weekends. If there is a will there is a way. When I worked I did my veg growing from 6 - 7 am.
If only 1 in 5 actually succeed this is a terrible failure rate. A ten year waiting list should therefore only be 2.
Perhaps people who turn up and volunteer to help clear plots should get priority.
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I think the probationer system works well, we give new plot holders 6 months to get going on ther plots, and if they are not making a go of it by then they lose the plot at that point. This saves a lot of hassle if they turn out to one of the people who find it harder than they expect and do nothing with it.
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I totally agree with you there Deb
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I think the probationer system works well, we give new plot holders 6 months to get going on ther plots, and if they are not making a go of it by then they lose the plot at that point. This saves a lot of hassle if they turn out to one of the people who find it harder than they expect and do nothing with it.
Got to admit I would have failed this test at 6 months but at 3 years I've almost got the hang of it. As I had almost no experience of veg growing and an overgrown plot this isn't very surprising :) Support is very important so keep a carrot ( and some spare seedlings) handy along with the pea stick ;D
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That's why we introduced Starter Plots. Three members last year "graduated" onto proper plots and are all doing brilliantly; of the current five, one has already asked to move on in the autumn - I don't think she'll be the only one.
I grew up on an allotment and I've grown vegetables all my life, but moving on to a full-size plot of my own was a steep learning-curve. How do people cope when they haven't have an entire lifetime of experience? They need help and encouragement....
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This year we have six new faces on our site. Three of those are hardly ever there and the other three get stuck in and get on with sorting out their respective plots. My concern is with the three who seemingly have no interest in their respective plots as they are never around and it then goes without saying,the weeds have taken over,the grass has blown its seed everywhere leaving plot holders close by in uproar. My point is, why the hell do these people take on something they obviously have no intention of getting stuck into? We have our annual site management inspection in two weeks time and we intend to make sure these people either start to show an interest or get the hell out. All three have been given written warning to seemingly no effect,so I guess three plots will be up for grabs in the very near future. I think these people lay in bed at night with all kinds of great ideas in their head,but in the cold light of day the reality hits them and they simply haven't got it in them to work a plot. We have a ten year waiting list here,but I know this waiting list is bypassed when it suits...if your face fits and all that....somebody on our commitee will come unstuck...watch this space!
sounds like you want the site secretaries job!!
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One new member on our site had to give up preety soon and telephoned me to let me know.
I will keep him on the list so that he can take the next plot available when his other commitment allows him.
I have a couple of folks now who are at the top of the list but unable to give them the time so have not accepted the plots. I find this attitude so refreshing and sensible- it makes no odds to me and much better than the folks who like Robert says will not admit they have lost interest but obviously have.
Why so many on my list do not want a plot at all when offered is a surprise- other sites do not seem to have this as much. :-\
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Why so many on my list do not want a plot at all when offered is a surprise- other sites do not seem to have this as muchIt is same 'game' on this side of the border... ::) Only other day we went knocking on door of the person at the top of the list. This person answered the door and said that he is NOT the person.. ??? At first we though we got it wrong even as other one of us remembered his face...but then we though that maybe we got it wrong after all. We saw postman coming buy...and asked "where such and such lives as we are not sure of the door number" (little white lie :-X) And even he pointed at the door we just visited. ::) Now I would have thought it would have been easier to say "sorry changed my mind about it".
We keep dropping letters to people and nobody don't get back.. ??? At the moment it looks like we are jumping the list several places per free plot at the time. Looks like the situation is not that desperate here in midlands.
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This year we have six new faces on our site. Three of those are hardly ever there and the other three get stuck in and get on with sorting out their respective plots. My concern is with the three who seemingly have no interest in their respective plots as they are never around and it then goes without saying,the weeds have taken over,the grass has blown its seed everywhere leaving plot holders close by in uproar. My point is, why the hell do these people take on something they obviously have no intention of getting stuck into? We have our annual site management inspection in two weeks time and we intend to make sure these people either start to show an interest or get the hell out. All three have been given written warning to seemingly no effect,so I guess three plots will be up for grabs in the very near future. I think these people lay in bed at night with all kinds of great ideas in their head,but in the cold light of day the reality hits them and they simply haven't got it in them to work a plot. We have a ten year waiting list here,but I know this waiting list is bypassed when it suits...if your face fits and all that....somebody on our commitee will come unstuck...watch this space!
antsinmipants, take a chill-pill mate, allotmenteering should be gentle and relaxing.
If we all lived by the chill pill rule nothing would ever get done.....wanna be in chill pill mode go to Spain!
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This year we have six new faces on our site. Three of those are hardly ever there and the other three get stuck in and get on with sorting out their respective plots. My concern is with the three who seemingly have no interest in their respective plots as they are never around and it then goes without saying,the weeds have taken over,the grass has blown its seed everywhere leaving plot holders close by in uproar. My point is, why the hell do these people take on something they obviously have no intention of getting stuck into? We have our annual site management inspection in two weeks time and we intend to make sure these people either start to show an interest or get the hell out. All three have been given written warning to seemingly no effect,so I guess three plots will be up for grabs in the very near future. I think these people lay in bed at night with all kinds of great ideas in their head,but in the cold light of day the reality hits them and they simply haven't got it in them to work a plot. We have a ten year waiting list here,but I know this waiting list is bypassed when it suits...if your face fits and all that....somebody on our commitee will come unstuck...watch this space!
antsinmipants, take a chill-pill mate, allotmenteering should be gentle and relaxing.
If we all lived by the chill pill rule nothing would ever get done.....wanna be in chill pill mode go to Spain!
I'm not sure what's wrong with Spain, but the 'chill-pill' idea seems to be the best advice I've seen so far......
Ants-in-my-pants eh? Says a lot....;)
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I think if veggie gardens were on their own homes there would not be this problem so much.It is easy to walk into your back garden several times a day and pull a few weeds etc but takes more effort to drive, walk, bike to a plot where your tools are locked etc and do a weed job. I wonder if folks simply don't realise the difference and can't quite make the extra effort.
My next door neighbour on a very small plot has hardly been since she signed up this year, her strawberries have rotted in the beds, her few things she planted have not made it due to too early planting, insufficient preparation etc, she has been three times and pulled weeds but I would bet my bottom dollar she does not renew, which is great for me as I am hoping to get the plot. I have given her seeds and plants which she put in then didn't tend. She has already told me it is too much due to a job etc, yet she had a very large garden at home filled with flowers , shrubs and lawns..she didn't want veggies in that.
XX Jeannine
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If I had to give up my allotment I would turn my back garden into a vegetable garden an make it look as decorative as possible. I would however miss the conversations, laughs, vegetable sharing And all the lovely people I have met at the allotment :)
Duke
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You are right Duke. Its the folks I would miss too.
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We took on our plot at the end of April this year , very badly overgrown [ 130 feet long x 16 ft wide ] within 4 weeks of hard graft inbetween shifts both my wife and i had not only cleared the ground but planted it as well .
Now there are only 12 plots on our sites and i was given by the sec a list of rules to conform too, to my utter suprise i then found out 3 plots were turned into large chicken runs and the rest either could not be bothered or just done very little inc the sec and chairman . at our yearly meet when asked if i had any questions - i raised the fact the allotments were not being used correctly and if people were not up to doing it they should be given to people who could work the ground , the answer i got was you youngsters have the time and energy to do it [ i am nearly 50 ] the others are either OAP or on Benifts - i walked out of the meeting -- then today i had just finished giving my plot a final turnover before winter one of them was giving me advice on what i was doing wrong so i told him when yours looks as good as mine then give advice until then bugger off --- like you say allotments are to be enjoyed and used not left overgrown to spoil it for everyone
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We took on our plot at the end of April this year , very badly overgrown [ 130 feet long x 16 ft wide ]one of them was giving me advice on what i was doing wrong so i told him when yours looks as good as mine then give advice until then bugger off --- like you say allotments are to be enjoyed and used not left overgrown to spoil it for everyone
Do you suppose, after you told him to "bugger off", the allotmenteer who took the time to talk to you went home having enjoyed his day? No one has ever spoken to me like that in nearly twenty years of allotmenteering, and if they had I'd have gone home very upset.
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I have just started up a 'buddy' system for our new plot holders. We are planning to meet monthly for advice, discussions and just a general chat! We have just signed 3 new plotholders and they all seem keen to take part. I would say the success rate on our site is probably well less than 50%. Alot of new people don't have any experience and have really underestimated the time and effort involved. Also the lack of knowledge makes it difficult due to the short time frame to get essential jobs done. Time will tell whether the new scheme helps!
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Hmm...........interesting idea Sparkly. A very good one :)
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Do you suppose, after you told him to "bugger off", the allotmenteer who took the time to talk to you went home having enjoyed his day? No one has ever spoken to me like that in nearly twenty years of allotmenteering, and if they had I'd have gone home very upset.
I did not intend to upset the guy -but after doing a 10 hour shift in work starting at 5am going home having a bite to eat then tending to the plot for 3 hours just to make sure it looks tidy and my bean trenches dug ready for manure i did feel annoyed when he came over after being sat on his chair admiring his chickens for an hour whilst the rest of his plot is overgrown - thats the problem some people take on these plots then do nothing whilst people like myself and my wife will have a go even though we are novice's , if we are not sure what to do we seek help from experienced gardners or go on the web and find sites like this one which has given us vast amounts of info
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I have just started up a 'buddy' system for our new plot holders. We are planning to meet monthly for advice, discussions and just a general chat! We have just signed 3 new plotholders and they all seem keen to take part. I would say the success rate on our site is probably well less than 50%. Alot of new people don't have any experience and have really underestimated the time and effort involved. Also the lack of knowledge makes it difficult due to the short time frame to get essential jobs done. Time will tell whether the new scheme helps!
This sounds interesting Sparkly, would you tell us a bit more about what you plan to do please?
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Hi antsinmipants,
We had a chat about this problem years ago, before allotments became trendy, but the situation never changes only the eviction get more frequent. Most people coming on to a plot are newbies, with little or no knowledge of whats required. Perhaps, a leaflet showing how its done and what is required.
One suggestion, was to put the rents up. But I think that there are as many lazy rich folk as there are poor folk and it would destroy the basic principle of what an allotments purpose is under the Allotment Act.
But, as I topiced earlier, Poor Husbandry, keep it simple and stick to basics:- if you cant eat it, clear it.
Digmore.
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I am on a brand new allotment that only started this year and already we have neglected plots.
We pay £100 per year so not cheap in relation to council plots so does money make a difference??
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I have just started up a 'buddy' system for our new plot holders. We are planning to meet monthly for advice, discussions and just a general chat! We have just signed 3 new plotholders and they all seem keen to take part. I would say the success rate on our site is probably well less than 50%. Alot of new people don't have any experience and have really underestimated the time and effort involved. Also the lack of knowledge makes it difficult due to the short time frame to get essential jobs done. Time will tell whether the new scheme helps!
This sounds interesting Sparkly, would you tell us a bit more about what you plan to do please?
The idea is to have a monthly meeting at a weekend (we are doing the 2nd Sunday in the month). For the first meeting I produced a short (2 sided) leaflet with some basic information: ideas for planting, upcoming events and reminders, links to our website and facebook page and for this one I put an article about how to start clearing a plot at this time of year. We met in the communal site hut and had a chat about how things were going, did a Q&A type session and discussed plans for the next few weeks. We then went around some of the peoples plots and they had the chance to ask questions (at this stage it was "what is this (weed)?". I also showed a tenant how to dig properly so that sort of thing. Everyone introduced themselves and I provided some cakes. The idea is for the sessions to be quite open. We will meet up, have a chat and answer questions; pointing people in the right directions in terms of essential jobs that need to be completed. Maybe in the future I may invite some guest speakers on specific topics. There are alot of knowledgeable people on the site so I am hoping to get a few volunteers to do demonstrations or a 10 minute talk about specific ideas/skills/techniques.
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sparkly can we have a link for your facebook page,for those of us who use it please x
heres ours
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/40958328425/
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Sorry Elvis it is members only! ;)
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thanks for your reply sparkly,but why so exclusive??
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Because it is a chance to talk about things specific to the ground and have a tight-knit little group. There are lots of groups on FB for veg growing/allotments and it is really for letting members chat and get to know each other who may visit the plot at different times.