Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: Trevor_D on May 19, 2011, 12:37:44
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Like a lot of sites, we've got a waiting list. For the last two years or so, I've been dealing with this by splitting 10 or 15 pole plots as they become vacant and only letting out 5 pole plots to new members. For the majority, that's enough, and as a result the whole site is beginning to look cultivated.
But some, obviously, "grow out of" that space and want more land. Existing policy - before there was a waiting list - was that if a plot became vacant, the plot-holders around had first refusal; in the case of those with 5 poles, I've continued this policy. But now I've had requests from plot-holders who already have 10 poles and want another 5.
What do the rest of you do about existing members taking on extra land? At least they're a known quantity, whereas a new member is simply a name on a piece of card; some have been brilliant, but some a waste of space. But new members keep the place growing and flourishing. We have made a decision, but I'm just interested in putting it into context and finding out what happens on other sites.
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Like a lot of sites, we've got a waiting list. For the last two years or so, I've been dealing with this by splitting 10 or 15 pole plots as they become vacant and only letting out 5 pole plots to new members. For the majority, that's enough, and as a result the whole site is beginning to look cultivated.
But some, obviously, "grow out of" that space and want more land. Existing policy - before there was a waiting list - was that if a plot became vacant, the plot-holders around had first refusal; in the case of those with 5 poles, I've continued this policy. But now I've had requests from plot-holders who already have 10 poles and want another 5.
What do the rest of you do about existing members taking on extra land? At least they're a known quantity, whereas a new member is simply a name on a piece of card; some have been brilliant, but some a waste of space. But new members keep the place growing and flourishing. We have made a decision, but I'm just interested in putting it into context and finding out what happens on other sites.
I'd suggest that while the shift from 5 to 10 could be a "priority" case, the sihift from 10 to 15 should be "join the queue"..... 10 poles is a fair old space after all..... though I guess someone with 10 poles and moving to 15 is completely solid in knowing what they're taking on, and indeed I might well loo into shifting up to 15 myself in the next few years.... I'll wait until all my original 10 are properly under control though :D, after all I've got several poles at home between the greenhouse, the fruit aqnd asparagus beds adn the winter veg plots.....
chrisc
chrisc
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On our site existing members can swap a plot if a new one becomes available but they can no longer take another one ahead of the waiting list. Years ago when we had issues getting new people then existing holders were allowed another plot but no longer!
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Our plots are standard 10 poles and now, as they come free, they are split into 2 and offered to people on the waiting list. We've got a lot of plot holders with 2 plots from the days when they were hard to let but it wouldn't happen now - the council wouldn't allow it out of fairness to the people on the list.
But it's hard to enforce so you see a husband and wife each put their names down and get a full sized plot when one comes up.
You can spend years on a waiting list and those with 10 poles have already got a massive garden.
So if it were me, I'd be saying no (and not even Join the Q) and weathering the flack.
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The impression I got from the allotment training given by NSALG is that they want 10 pole to remain the "Standard", so that keeps the pressure on local authorities to provise enough allotments. Therefore your present procedure sounds ok.
On my site the committee (not necessarily my view) decided that in view of the waiting list being one and a half times the number of plots, that anyone wanting anymore land would have to go back on the list again and wait their turn.
I have found that people moving from half to full has lead to them not keeping up both!!
Also a lot of people who have 5 poles- having told me they definatly want a Full plot, turn round later and agree a half plot is enough.
We have no "rule "about the maximum no. anyone can have and being a small site I do not think we would let anyone have more than 20 poles.
I have roughly that amount but I have had them - and waited on the list for them -in the past (10-15 years ago) when the demand was nothing like it is now.
I'd be interested in what you decided ,if you decided to tell :-X
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On our site, a member is only allowed a single plot.
A couple can have two single plots, as long as they both went on the waiting list, and both actively work the land.
New members are only allowed a half plot, which can be bulked up to a full one after a one year probation.
All seems sensible to me.
My 'two halves' are on different parts of the site - but the second one is on the 'sunny side', so there was no way I was going to turn it down.
Ours is a relatively small site - about 20 or so full plots.
I think it's sensible to give land to existing members, as they're known entities.
However, in terms of 'risk mitigation', you're better of having more individuals sharing the land. That way, if a member is no longer able to garden / has to stop / causes problems, they amount of land that they're tying up is proportionally less.
I also think its beneficial to the site to have as many individuals as possible, to make the mix more interesting, and to create more of a 'community' feel - if you see what I mean.
Just my 2p worth.
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I am on a private site so the rules are different but for official allotments I feel these should be available to an many different people as possible particulalarly if they are subsidised at the tax payers expense. I think that people should be allowed to upgrade to a 10 pole plot if they are successful but only from 10 to 15 if there is positively no waiting list or if there is an overgrown plot which no one wants.
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Trevor_D,
of 55 plots on our site only two are now 10 poles ... the average size is just under 5. We too have adopted a policy of splitting larger plots as they become available.
When a waiting list appeared (and grew) some years ago it was decided that existing plot holders could no longer apply for a second plot.
However, we have seen quite a sizeable turnover in plot holders over the last two years for various reasons. This has had the effect of drastically reducing the waiting list ... I think (but do not know for sure) that there are currently only one or two on it.
Anyway, existing plot holders can now apply for a second plot once again. They go on the waiting list. The guy next to me put his name down earlier this year and got a second plot last week.
In your situation 15 poles does sound a lot. Perhaps you could limit the plots that are offered to the reliable existing plot holders to any troublesome or overgrown
ones on the basis that they can be relied on to sort them out?!
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This is a difficult one.5 years ago when we didn't have waiting list plots were so easy to get. Some had 3 or more. Some were even permitted to take 3 uncultivated plots on at one time.Now that plots are in demand I feel that anyone wanting to take on another plot should go at the bottom of the waiting list and then only if their original plot is well cultivated should be considered for another.
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Thanks for the input. For the record, we're a private site too, so in theory we can do what we like; in practice, of course, we've got to do what the majority of our members are happy with! And we've got about 100 members.
Our decision - which we are still reviewing - is that any member who already has 10 poles can't take on any more unless either there's no waiting list, or it's a plot no-one else wants to take on. But 5 pole plot-holders can still be offered another 5 poles. And the situation is muddied slightly, because we also have six very small Starter Plots (two raised beds, each about 12x4) which members rent for just one season, part of the deal being that they will then be offered a 5 pole plot if they are confident enough to deal with it.
And, of course, there are still a few of us who have more than 10 poles, which we took on when you couldn't give allotments away!
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That seems very fair
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This situation is exactly why we not not allow "half plots" on our site,too much hassle!
We cannot just swop over to another plot that becomes available either.If you are not happy with your piece of land and want to swop you have to give your bit up and join the waiting list...then you probably wont get the one you wanted anyway!
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How about someone who had five plots and did not do any properly!
Seen that and the ones with two plots and they cannot even do one properly, Its just greed as far as I am concerned.
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Perhaps they won't be so greedy when the rents go up
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I think Trevor_D's general rules are very good. I had 2 years learning on a 5 rod then moved to a 10 rod which has worked really well. The extra large/2 plot holders tend to date back to the time allotments were unpopular and probably helped keep the site going - good for them. I guess you can't stop couples putting their names down separately but you can be strict about cultivation and paying the rent on time.
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I've always thought that the lotters on our site are greedy having two or three plots, but can understand that nobody wanted these years ago
After newbies on our site having taken on new plots, I am dissappointed in seeing them coming a few times and not bothering for weeks on end
Some of them, fair play are having a good go but most just in my opinion see it as something to tell there mates about
So I'm now of the opinion let the oldies have an extended or another plot
I agree with Simon about not worrying about other plotters but when your surrouned by weeds it makes my blood boil
But Shirls right the rise in rents around the country will make them think twice about double and treble plotting
:-\ :P
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On our site nobody's allowed a second plot, no matter how small their first one is.
I got a bit frustrated watching the little plots either side of me neglected all the time, while I wasn't allowed to take them on. I think it should be okay to add extra until you have ten rods. But I do sympathise with people who are on the waiting list who would be a bit annoyed if they knew land was coming up, but was given to insiders.
In the end I was lucky, there was a bureaucratic mix up and the council bloke ended up letting me have half of the next door plot because it was easier than sorting the mix-up out (I don't get why either, but I didn't argue! ;D). It's only an extra 2 rods, but I'm lucky to get it. :)
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How about someone who had five plots and did not do any properly!
Seen that and the ones with two plots and they cannot even do one properly, Its just greed as far as I am concerned.
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Someone on our site was given 6 plots all in one go. They came down one Sunday, dug about a 3foot square area, let their 2 teenage girls run all over other people's plots with their constantly barking dog and we never saw them again.
When our rents were due to be paid he was contacted and told if he still wanted a plot it would be just the one but he wasn't happy with that. Now he has none and again haven't heard from him since March.
We have 3 plots but they are all cultivated and mostly planted (just waiting another couple of weeks to put all the tender stuff out). We always get comments on our plots and it makes us very proud of ourselves.
Julie
:)
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On our site several plot holders have more than one plot this dates back to when you could not pay someone to take on a plot, the only reason a plot holder would be asked (told ) to give up a plot is if it becomes uncultivated. The turn over of plot holders on our site is fairly high with on average only one in three new members staying more than 2 years. I don't know if this high turn over is due to the fact we get two types of new plot holder type 1 takes on a plot believing that a lot of hard work is required ,these stay and type 2 watch the tv, see lovely soil apply for a plot and find that it more like concrete and give up. The ones that do stay, stay a very long time some in excess of 30 years. New plot holders are encouraged to take smaller plots, ours vary between 3.5 and 10 poles. No one is allowed to have an untidy plot. On our site if a plot holder has a short term illness or other problems all they have to do is tell a member of the committee that they need short term help and it is provided. once a newcomer has proved they can look after their plot they can either apply for an extra plot or move to a larger one
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Does anyone realise just how much 10 rod is? we had a similar problem at my old site in Lowestoft, One woman had five ten rod plots and could not keep up one, every plot was weed bound and she did a small square in each until it got too full of weeds. Its just greed, ten rod is more than enough for anyone and I would never ever give another plot holder another plot, I just dont think they would cope.
too many so called gardeners just want to say "Oh I have an allotment" but just potter and wedd and fiddle around and do sod all. These are the ones we have to discourage,
we also had a nine month probation period so if a plot was not cultivated an kept clean they would be booted off. Then we started by asking for a £20 deposit which was returned after the plot holder gave the land up only if the plot was left in a clean weed free condition.
If not that money would be used to pay for fuel and strimmer cord and rotavator or weed killer,
to get the plot back in good condition.
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;)Personally I think its greed; we have a couple who have one each;when there are others who have none.
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The old boy across from hardly does anything to his allotment because of health problems but he enjoys just coming up there and just putting a few veg in but not much, I want to take the part of the allotment on that he does not work paying my share of the rent, would this be considered being greedy or having a social conscious to help him with his allotment, :)
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I think it is only greed if you take on a plot and dont cultivate it, If u can manage to look after two big plots and keep it tidy ok but if anyone wants another plot they should join the waiting list
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We've got two half plots, but some have got 3 whole plots each.
There is rarely a waiting list, and they can't give the plots away, so they are just happy that someone takes them, regardless of how many they all ready have. (we were offered another one last week!)
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All well and good having two (or more)! if there is no waiting list. But it is a bit of a @$%&^£$$ if there are persons wanting to give allotmenting a bit of a go! Cheers, ;D Tony.
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I took on a well weedy plot, over two years ago, that had not been worked for sometime. It is 3.6 poles in size and I feel i have it under control. I asked the nice council manager if i could extend and take on a plot next to mine that was covered in brambles, bind weed and docks. She said that although there was awaiting list (we do have other less covered plots) if she offerred it to anyone else they would just laugh and walk away. It is only another half plot about 4 poles and i think that will be enough. It has not been cultivated for at least 17 years and because of the stones i have found i don't think it has been dug before at all.
I have had it since October and dug over half of it (three times) and have planted potatoes, sweetcorn. marrow, courgettes and cucumber. On the other half i have buried most of the brambles etc. in a pile with pumpkins on top. Bindweed comes through but the hoe deals with that.
It is hard work but i find it extremely relaxing. Even though I say so myself i believe my two plots look better than a lot of others with only one. If I felt i could not get it looking good before the end of August i would feel disappointed with my self and would probably give it up.
So i think it is a good thing that plots are worked and that there are people that can work 10 poles with ease. The problem is what to do about those that can't even work 5 poles and they want more. Hard decision for anyone to make. I do consider myself lucky and will work hard. By the way there are another 3 or four plots that are in the same state as my second plot but i haven't seen many people run to cultivate them.
Bill
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Ten rods is a fair bit. Plots on my site are about twenty, but they also have hedges. Not many people cultivate the whole lot, but more would manage if they didn't have to spend time on hedge chopping.
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Hi all,
As mentioned elsewhere I have two and a half plots.(£100 per year) which is a lot, but they are fully worked and productive. There are empty plots on our site. And the plots I have had to be cleared of years of neglect before I could use them. I hope that in time I will pass them on to others in a better condition than the way I found them.
Every year we get a clutch of newbies and every year about one of them stays for more than a few weeks. People don`t realise the amount of hard work and committment required. If the site was fully worked I would give up the vegetable plot but until then I grow as much food for my own use as I can.
Col
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I am rather concerned about the definition of doing a plot properly. Mine is different and actually currently bursting with weeds mostly fat hen, I see it as a composting opportunity. Though I do get rid of anything which will blow in the wind such as dandelions and milkweed. None the less my plot is extremely productive. But compared to the regimented lines on some plots mine appears a mess. The areas waiting for crops such as beans and courgettes and brassicas are not bare but very very very weedy. The biggest most succulent weeds you have ever seem.
We have several people who took more than one year to get their acts together. There are two in particular who are a joy to behold now but who under a different regime would have been given their marching orders before the end of their first year.
I am as always concerned about newbie syndrome, we have only lost 3 out of 50 and 2 of those were due to unexpected ill health. I wonder how off putting it must be to arrive on a site with everyone around you turning up their noses and expecting you to fail. Even the term newbie somehow sounds derogatory. There is no point in making friends or contact because they are sure to leave fairly soon.
I would have preferred the title apprentice to show you were on a learning curve and would complete the course but the TV has put a bad connotation on that as well. You might now expect to be fired.
Our plots came particularly well fertilized and when that runs out I think there might be a rush of puny crops. There are already a number of plots were the plants are calling out feed me.
Never mind they were just newbies.
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Hi all,
The term Newbie isn`t meant as derogatory although in this case I pondered about using it. Its mostly internet short hand. I always try to make new plot holders feel welcome without prejudice, as do others on my site. Helping with offers of strimming and tilling, lending tools and equipment and giving away produce and seedlings, according to the persons needs and manner. We`re always hopeful that the site will be fully let and worked and don`t let past events get in the way of that hope.
I have a wildish area under my fruit trees, I was looking at it a few weeks ago and I was happy with the idea that I had "created" a woodland. So I will leave it. But I also know that patches like that are slug hotels and growing crops next to an unworked plot is made more difficult for that reason.
Col
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On our site there is a limit of 3 plots per person, but no-one has more than 2. There are quite a few members with 2 though or with 2 per couple (one in each name). I think it is fine as long as all plots are keep cultivated. Infact I have one 10 pole and one 5 pole plot. Ant does work these with me though and I don't think I could do all of that on my own. Depends what you want to do. If you want a large fruit area that can take up alot of space. We have a waiting list system and members can join that and work their way up just like new people.
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I've got 2 plots and other one I only took because we could not get anybody else to do it..there were no waiting lists then..after clearing 'half a landfill site' I would not let my extra plot go easily..it took ages to get rid of the rubbish.
Now we've had odd people grumbling about about members having more than a plot.. ::)
If the land its used..what does it matter...yes, we have now 20 odd people on waiting list. But when plots come available lot of people have either moved away and are not to be contacted or changed their mind and never bothered to take their names off from list...or..once have a new plot, the usual story, work doesn't happen and plot having to be taken off again.. ::)
20 names on waiting list sounds lot for our site..but in reality..you can easily take 1/3 off when it comes to quieing...average is about 2 yrs waiting.
Now if member has his/her name on list for another plot it is not an issue and once one come available they've been offered it when their turn is up...no 'special arrangements' otherwise. On our area there is quite few allotment sites and having visited some of them..there is still uncultivated plots about.
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It's a really difficult question, but at the root of it is the shortage of allotments. I believe that everyone who wants one should be able to have as big an allotment garden as they want, and that certainly means anything up to 20 poles, and quite reasonably more. Mostly people won't want anything like that much and I'd be surprised if many folk now would actually want much more than a five pole plot, but I wouldn't want to see any restriction at all below 20 poles as a growing family could crop that quite intensively and still need more land, and that at the end of the day is the foundation of the movement in England and Wales.
What needs to be addressed is the shortage of allotments, and not to put too fine a point on it, but if the 100-odd thousand individuals sitting on waiting lists nationally can't pull their finger out and organise, then shame on them. In many urban and suburban situations there's no excuse whatsoever for waiting lists. The 1908 Act creates the duty on parish councils to provide sufficient allotments, and if there's any kind of farmland within the area then the act also creates all the powers the council needs to rent it at an ecconomic price. Councils are choosing to be delinquent in their duty, and at the end of the day it's the prospective allotmenteers who are letting them get away with it. I have very little sympathy for their situation.
It's different when there isn't the land to be found, but it would be a dangerous and regressive precedent to start rationing because the answer is not to allow the situation to develop elsewhere, and not to demonstrate that the situation is tolerable.
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I like the perspective you give on it, Unwashed, I think it's a healthy one. But I think you're being too harsh on the people on the waiting list. They might have no idea they have any entitlement at all.
People generally feel entitled only to what they can purchase at the market rate these days. With the price of a home with a garden being so out of reach nowadays, a large garden from the council seems like a kind gift in comparison and not something they have a right to.
It would be nice if more people were aware of your perspective, in councils and in the public at large. Once again (like with so much gardening knowledge) I would never know about my rights as an allotment-holder if it weren't for this forum.
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I've been reading this thread with a rye smile. We are suppose to have a waiting list that runs in the 200's. I have been on my site for many years and still there are 4 plots not let. 20 plots so that's 1/5Th of the site. And I no for a fact that many sites still have plots not let. Yet when these plots are offered by our allotments officer theres no takers ??? The plots are not over grown because we have been strimming them every so often to keep the weeds down. So it begs the question what are people expecting when they come view the plots.
There is also the cost of getting to sites to be taken into account, as a lot of sites in Swindon came into being after the war when the then new estates where built. So are not necessarily cost effective to take on due to distance.
Those that have more than 1 plot have had them for many years, like others in the days when we couldn't give them away. And as things stand if anyone on the site wanted more plots I for one would be happy to let them have them.
Better the devil you no. I'm afraid I take ''Waiting lists'' with a very large pinch of salt. In our towns case new allotments need to be sited where the new estates are being built now, would be the answer. A pipe dream I no, but I'm ever hopeful. ;D
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I saw a woman once after she'd inspected a possible plot, and she was appalled, she said 'it had grass on it!' - I thought grass is the least of the problem when you take on a new plot. If it doesn't have small trees and a burnt out car on it you're laughing!
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i remember my community garden plot,when I had one
when got it no weeds freshly tilled.
maybe you should give plots to newbies cleared of debris and refuse.
Why should newbies have clear up someone else garbage.
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Agree up to a point. About 20 years ago I got an allotment on another site. It was on a 45 degree slope with head-high brambles, and I was unemployed with no car and no tools. I lasted 6 months before being evicted for neglecting it!
My current plot was full of rubbish left by previous tenants, who must have been compulsive hoarders. It would be good if councils could remove stuff like this, but it took me months and would obviously bump the rent up massively if they had to pay someone to do it.
Perhaps tenants should pay a deposit when they get a plot, to pay for clearing it if they neglect it?
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I agree about the disposit so that there is enough money to pay someone to rotavate the site when someone leaves if necessary. Perhaps people would not leave their plots in a mess or keep hold of them too long if they know they are responsible for the condition in which they are handed on.
Mind you weeds grow very quickly. But a good crop of weeds is an indication that the soil is good.
Sounds good in theory Unwashed but have any councils actually managed a compulory rental of farmland? Can councils affort to take landowners to court over the matter? Are there any cases where councils have won?
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In January we had a waiting list of just over 20, our allotment 'year' ended 31 March and ten plots were given up. We try whenever possible to offer people a plot convenient for access (we are a long thin site) but we even then got reasons for not taking a particular plot (in some cases no plot) like :
its a long way from the gate for me
there's no shed on it
there's no greenhouse
its a long way from the water (we have tanks or troughs every six plots)
its overgrown (there may have been a few weeds but no plots were really overgrown)
I wanted one with some apple trees on it
and in some cases people just didn't bother to return a phone call or, in two cases, didn't turn up to look at the plot. We have four people on our list now - so almost half didn't really want a plot anyway.
With regards to clearing rubbish, we (our field secretary and two field wardens) do this where there is a lot (we don’t allow bonfires so can’t burn things) but a skip costs over £100. We did need to have a skip to clear one persons plot a couple of months ago - a large skip and filled to the top, generally we try to clear things using a trailer but only one load is allowed to our tip/recycling centre a day.
Asking for a deposit against leaving a plot with rubbish could create problems – who would hold the money, and its mostly people who have had a plot a very long time who leave rubbish
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I have been watching this thread with interest. I took on the allowed half plot in Jan (the beginning of our 'year') after being on the waiting list for 2 years. Luckily it was worked until the end. The greenhousewas taken (which I knew) and all fruit, including apple tree, moved (which I hadn't realised). Tumble down shed was left, which is fine. It took me a few months (okay, several) to get going by which time there was a really good crop of dandelions, thistles etc. I covered it all with plastic after getting those out and then dug bit by bit and planted it all out.
There were several plots which were taken on by better men (which I'm not) than me. Some plots looked as if they hadn't been worked for months and it occured to me that the committee could invest in black plastic to cover all of these plots until the new tennant takes over. They could be covered once someone said they were giving up or after a 'third warning letter' after inspections. I am sure this would be popular with neighbouring plot holders who suffer from the weed seeds blowing over and new tennants who have an easier job.
This doesn't help with rubbish being left though.
Oh, and in answer to the original question:
I don't think that existing multiple plot holders should have plots taken away
Newbies should only have a half plot and only offered a full plot when they have proved themselves (not necessarily to gold medal standards)
No one should have a second plot unless there is no takers from the waiting list
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I have a question about deposits, we discussed this at our last AGM, and decided against them as it may exclude those on benefits or small incomes - £20 can be a lot when you don't have much. What do you do about that? we decided it was better to try and 'manage' plots more closely to stop them becoming overgrown, and therefore needing to clear plots after someone has given them up.
Would be interested to hear how people deal with the deposit question
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Yes I think it would be a shame to go the deposit route, the same as I think going down the route of raising rents in order to make people appreciate their plots would also be a shame. Allotments seem a wonderful haven from all of that 'if you can afford it you're entitled to it, if you can't you're not' ethos we live by generally.
Some people on here have done great things to reduce newbie failure rates by offering starter plots, advice and support, and that has helped them have well-maintained sites. I'm really impressed with sites where you can ask people to help out if you're ill for example. Our site is far away from being able to do that. Maybe one day... Good luck with the plan, 1066.
Oh and by the way, I was exaggerating for comic effect about the burnt out cars and trees - obviously that's too much for anyone. I did look at an allotment like that in Wimbledon, when I lived there. I said no. I can cope with brambles, but trees and cars are too much! :o
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LOL at cars and trees - or should that be Cry Out Loud!!
Yes, I'm very unsure about deposits, and I don't think we'll be doing it :)
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i have two allotments,one i have had for 43 years,another chap has four allotments.
when we both first started nobody wanted them.now we are under pressure to give
them away.i have shown prospective new people round the site.
but when they have to start work in them,some say its too hard.
the site then gets abandoned.i beleive if you can work them you should keep them.
jolly john
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I agree. Several of us on our site have more than 10 poles. We took them on, quite often reluctantly, when no-one wanted an allotment, and we've kept the site going. I wouldn't dream of insisting, or even suggesting, that everyone down-sizes; unless, of course, they're not working the land!
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No I agree, you get very attached to them, don't you? And so much work, so much thought goes into a plot. You might as well ask us to give up our children! ;D
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No I agree, you get very attached to them, don't you? And so much work, so much thought goes into a plot. You might as well ask us to give up our children! ;D
hmmm which would be easier, your kids or your plot?
on 2nd thoughts, don't answer :D I'm getting me coat......
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That's one of those questions you should never ask... ;)
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I am on a private site and we do have a deposit.
All the original plots were handed over bare earth but undug. All those given up were very weedy and work was done on them before the next tenants took over.
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How would you solve this one?
A new plot holder had demanded a second 10-rod plot. Under our rules, we do allow members to hold up to 2 x 10-rod plots, but only if they can demonstrate they are able to maintain their initial plot to a good standard for two seasons. (This is because in the past people have shown lots of enthusiasm, taken a second plot immediately and then given up...)
Our new guy won't accept our judgement and has complained to all and sundry. Now, his "sister" wants to take a plot and we have added her to the waiting list. But we are worried that his "sister" won't actually do any of the work, but he will. How can we ensure that his "sister" does the work and he doesn't acquire a second plot by deception? Any allotments have declarations, or things of that sort, that they ask plot holders to sign in cases like this?
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Happens all the time.................
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Surely that would be a case of sub letting wouldn't it.
Some have the attitude that rules are there to be broken.
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How would you solve this one?
A new plot holder had demanded a second 10-rod plot. Under our rules, we do allow members to hold up to 2 x 10-rod plots, but only if they can demonstrate they are able to maintain their initial plot to a good standard for two seasons. (This is because in the past people have shown lots of enthusiasm, taken a second plot immediately and then given up...)
Our new guy won't accept our judgement and has complained to all and sundry. Now, his "sister" wants to take a plot and we have added her to the waiting list. But we are worried that his "sister" won't actually do any of the work, but he will. How can we ensure that his "sister" does the work and he doesn't acquire a second plot by deception? Any allotments have declarations, or things of that sort, that they ask plot holders to sign in cases like this?
You're saying that you won't let this guy another plot because you don't think he'll cultivate it, and you won't let it to his sister because you're sure he'll cultivate it. That sounds odd?
You have a cultivation standard, right? So why not just enforce that and stop worrying about who has what. Simples!
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I think I can understand the concern.
Just taken on my plot and so tempted to have one right opposite my gate that the farmer has just spaced out.I thought it would be brilliant to have just for fruit and a nice seating area but have to question myself ,could I keep two plots up to standard and I think the answer is no.
Maybe he has concerns that this guy's original plot is not up to the mark.
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The "sister" trick has so far been tried on us twice. The first time around, the plot holder became overstretched working both his and his "sister's" plot and subsequently gave up in the middle of a season. Evictions here take 3-4 months so the mere fact of having two plots meant land was tied up that could otherwise have been usefully been cultivated by somebody else.
In the other case, the "sister's" plot has been brilliantly cultivated by the brother, whose own plot is fine too. However, the complaints about effective queue jumping from members who wanted second plots are now legendary. We have a lot of people who want plots, but trying to satisfy everybody is difficult and people trying to circumvent the rules irritates a lot of hard working committee members. So many people see rules as things other people have to obey, not them.
(By the way, the situation is a lot worse than I have been able to sketch out here, but you get the general idea!)
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If you have a waiting list I do not understand why second plots are available really.