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Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: telboy on January 20, 2005, 21:04:03

Title: Hair
Post by: telboy on January 20, 2005, 21:04:03
Hi All,
I have wondered in the past about a useful use of hair clippings from male/female/unisex salons.
I have asked many times and the usual reply is 'out with the rubbish'.
Now I know that you know different!!
Can the product be composted? Someone said yes.
I'm all ears.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Kerry on January 20, 2005, 21:26:35
i have read in guides to composting that hair can be composted, along with things i had not thought of, like the contents of the hoover.
i've not done this, i'd be interested to know if anyone has, and how the hair is actually 'rotted'!
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: gavin on January 20, 2005, 21:32:12
Hi telboy - I've not tried it.  It's supposed to be a good thing to add - but any website with more than a cursory look at composting seems to recommend using it in small quantities, and well-mixed through?

Try it and let us all know?

All best - Gavin
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Doris_Pinks on January 20, 2005, 22:10:17
My friend in the States collects it from hairdressers to use as a deer repellant!! (they nibble her roses!)
Funny thing for me is I could use the family's hair, but the thought of using someone I don't knows hair....ugh! Bit like cleaning out the plughole in a hotel! :o
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: john_miller on January 20, 2005, 23:58:36
Hair has a lot of nitrogen compounds in it (like nails). This would make it quite beneficial on a compost heap.
I hope your friend had more success with human hair than I did DP. It didn't dissuade the deer from continuing to munch on my lettuce or melons when I tried it- luckily the State of Vermont compensates growers for deer damage!
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: busy_lizzie on January 21, 2005, 00:04:16
Yuck! I am not particularly squeamish, but I'm with you DorisP something about using someones else's hair is a bit stomach heaving.  (this is from the person who shifted a half a ton of cow dung in August, without batting a "hair")  ;D busy_lizzie   
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Glyn on January 21, 2005, 00:36:27
I have a few customer's who use hair-clippings from my barber shop, mixed in around their tomato plants. I have tried one or two...nice.

Over here (Canada)  they also use hair for keeping deer, groundhogs, etc..at bay.
Some swear urine does the trick also?
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Debs on January 21, 2005, 10:06:43

On a programme called 'Kitchen Gardener' , shown in the North east, the presenter stated that cat hair was a good repellant to deter mice from nibbling at crops.

Anything is worth a try...

Debs ;)
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Plottie on January 21, 2005, 11:33:06
I'm with the squeamish ones here...........first reaction was YUCK!!!
Think I'll stick to the more traditional compostables!!!
Plottie  :)
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Mrs Ava on January 21, 2005, 13:21:35
I cut Ava and number one sons hair and it all goes on the heap.  How can you be squeamish, you bung all your rotten veg in the heap, some people pee on them, bug and possibly rodents live in your heaps, and you happily wade through mountains of grass and hay that has come out of the smelly end of cows and horses...and in some cases pigs and hephalumps!

A little piece written by the lovely Christopher Lloyd, 'The Well-Tempered Garden'

'We are probably all a little cranky in our ideas on manuring.  The young man who used to collect the contents from his friends ashtrays for later application to his roses is a case in point.  Tea leaves get saved exclusively as a mulch for camellias, simply because the tea plant is a camellia species.  For my part, I cast all my nail parings out of the bathroom window so as to feed the ceanothus below with hoof and horn.  Since, at 30 years, this is the oldest ceanothus in my garden, and it is still flourishing, I naturally congratulate myself on a sagacious policy.'
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: telboy on January 21, 2005, 22:15:22
Hi Again,

Thanks for the contributions.

E.J., it seems as if it does compost.

However, as I was contemplating a Village compost scheme and shipping in bagloads of the stuff, maybe a prob.?
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: ACE on January 21, 2005, 23:01:53
If anybody is shaving their cat, put me down for a bit of fluff.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: tim on January 22, 2005, 11:37:27
Of COURSE it's good. Just as are the sweepings from your floors, all fluffy & nice. Like wool shoddy?

Animal hair goes down quicker than human. But keep it thin & chopped. Deer - yes - all over Dartmoor they do it around their roses. Nets of it!!  = Tim
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: diver on January 22, 2005, 16:13:51
I have been putting hair from brushing my cat and my from my neighbours dogs on my compost and it seems to rot down well
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: john_miller on January 22, 2005, 17:33:31
But does it work Tim?
As to Glyn's question about urine my experience is negative there too. I took over the care of a (beautiful) 'full' male Borzoi (I thought the extra hormones may be a deterrent). For the first two years I had him I used to camp out in my fields during  summer nights to keep him in the area and to increase the amount of liquid that would be distributed around my crops. By the end of the second season damage started to increase indicating to me that the deer were getting used to even that. I had hoped that such strong scent from a predator would dissuade them but, presumably when food or population pressure increases, it's effect diminishes (one night when I walked into my lettuce field I counted 17 sets of eyes reflecting my torch light!).
Eventually I used mothballs around the melons to great effect. Lettuce is just impracticable to protect unfortunately (about a hectare annually, with multiple plantings)- and was easier to prove deer damage to the state game warden (who were responsible for assessing the damage and submitting their findings to the state for compensation purposes)!
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: salad muncher on January 23, 2005, 11:55:52
Sorry but I know hair and contents of hoover bag can be used but I cant even so much as touch even my mothers hair so to go putting it with my lovely horse manure would keep me away from my roses and allotment !

I thought hair did not de-compose so does it just add texture to soil, or thinking about it does it get burnt in manure pile?
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: john_miller on January 24, 2005, 01:55:44
Like any organic material hair decomposes- indeed some people are unlucky enough to be infected with breakdown fungi while it is still attached to their scalp. With all the tens of thousands of years that Homo erectus and Homo sapiens have been around if it didn't we would be knee deep in the stuff by now! There is no unique burning process involved.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: salad muncher on January 24, 2005, 10:29:45
Like any organic material hair decomposes- indeed some people are unlucky enough to be infected with breakdown fungi while it is still attached to their scalp. With all the tens of thousands of years that Homo erectus and Homo sapiens have been around if it didn't we would be knee deep in the stuff by now! There is no unique burning process involved.
As that all make sense John then what is the reason for a corpse found thousands of years old that would still have its hair, bone does not decompose but giving it the right fungi/acid or flame then it can be eaten away hence the same for hair does not decompose but give an acid or fungi or flame we have broken it down to it's chemical elements. Maybe the word "decompose" was the wrong word to use? should have said "hair is a tough little bleeder" ;)
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: aquilegia on January 24, 2005, 11:40:12
I put my own hair (from the bath plughole and my brush) on the compost heap, but also am squeamish about other people's. I'd also worry about all the chemicals that might be on salon hair.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: john_miller on January 27, 2005, 01:06:14
The rate of decomposition of any organic material depends upon the local environment in which it is taking place. In certain situations ancient corpses have been discovered in an almost perfect state of preservation. The recent discovery of the body of an archer released by a retreating glacier in the Alps or the man's corpse found in a Danish bog in the 1970's were so perfectly preserved that anthropologists were even able to discern the last meals of the deceased even though they were millenia old would be illustrations of this phenomenon. In many situations hair is more resilient than other tissues. In no situation is it eternal. It's longevity depends upon the correct decomposition agents and conditions being present.
At the other extreme I heard an interview with a diver who was involved in discovering the wreck of the Titanic mention that he and his comrades were most surprised finding many pairs of shoes randomly spread about the ship. These indicated where the bodies of the victims had settled. If the bodies had been attacked by predacious marine animals the shoes would have been scattered but their close proxomity indicated that the bodies had dissolved into the water- bones, hair, everything. This took place in, at most, 80 years, and probably a lot less. 
Quote
Maybe the word "decompose" was the wrong word to use? should have said "hair is a tough little bleeder" ;)
Quote
From MSN Encarta:
decompose:

transitive and intransitive verb 
 
1. biology: rot, to break down organic matter from a complex to a simpler form, mainly through the action of fungi and bacteria, or undergo this process

 
2. break down into pieces: to break something down, or be broken down, into smaller or simpler parts

 
3. chemistry: break down into constituent parts: to separate or cause something to separate into constituent parts

With any of the definitions decompose is the word I would use- yours is more prosaic though!

 

 
 
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: growmore on January 27, 2005, 20:40:42
(http://img175.exs.cx/img175/1682/haircut2wh.jpg)


Ok ok, whos brain wave was this then ????
this site got summat to answer for ,,HA HA .

Cats beware
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Spurdie on January 27, 2005, 20:52:32
Growmore, when I first saw your cat picture I thought it had had an unfortunate accident (a dose of the skitters) after smoking a pack of cigarettes. Then I read the thread and discovered it was not to do with incontinent cats, but HAIR.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: salad muncher on January 28, 2005, 10:38:18
Sorry John I thought this was a forum !

English Dictionary

1. forum, Meeting or medium for open descussion or debate.

sorry I chose a word or choice of word you did not agree with, but was at this forum to learn from others and with regards to this debate wanted to understand the mechanics of the use of hair. In the future I shall use more elaborate words just for you, but then I thought this was a friendly and relaxed site.

Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Debs on January 28, 2005, 12:38:13

Great piccie Growmore.

Spurdie - Hee! Hee!

I saw the cat piccie with fresh eyes after that ;D

Debs
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: john_miller on January 28, 2005, 14:10:21
Apologies to you SM too. My first attempt to post that comment disappeared into the ether and that was a re-write, done under a sense of frustration and lack of time as I type very slowly and generally have to do much editing to convey what I intend to say. I still missed something though! The last line should have read " With any of the definitions decompose is the word I would use- mine is more prosaic than yours though!"
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: GREENWIZARD on March 22, 2005, 07:04:30
.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Clayhithe on March 25, 2005, 23:38:57
Decomposition needs warmth,  air and moisture:  anything biological will decompose.

The Ice Man was frozen and dehydrated.   Freezing slows everything down,  dehydration takes away the moisture.

People who die in peat bogs are surrounded by moisture but no air:  they don't decompose.

People who die at the bottom of the Atlantic have moisture and a little air:  they decompose slowly and their leather shoes even more slowly.

A warm,  well mixed and aerated compost heap will decompose anything organic very quickly.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: legless on March 26, 2005, 19:05:00
as an (erm lucky?) owner of 3 longhaired cats that need grooming, today i planted some broad beans on tiny beds of cat hair as my autumn beans all got scoffed. will report back if it works!!
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Heldi on March 26, 2005, 22:36:47
I put the fluff from the tumble dryer into the composter.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: campanula on March 27, 2005, 20:49:54
hair, pee, old feather pillows, vacuum bags and ashtrays all go in our compost - if it was once alive, even tenuously, in it goes.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: salad muncher on August 01, 2005, 11:54:18
Good bargain at Debenhams for pillows, Was about to throw out old pillows and thought I better see if composting them would work so off they go they are on the bin.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: jennym on August 01, 2005, 13:30:12
Only feather pillows - surely! On the hair side, all out hair clippings go on the compost heap, no problems, along with vacuum cleaner debris (good old dyson empties straight into the bucket outside my back door) and all veg debris and sweepings. Also, I have composted: woolen jerseys ( also used them to line hanging baskets but only black or brown ones) and shredded paper (distributed in small amounts)
As to 'burning' - one gloriously hot year - think it was 2003 - the huge pile of compost I had contained a significant amount of horse manure and, quite spontaneously, smoke came from it for several weeks, and we cooked an egg in foil on the top!!! Also grew carrots and lettuce in January on a 'hot bed', great fun.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: westsussexlottie on August 01, 2005, 13:47:44
We collect hair clippings from the local barber (no chemicals) and use them around plants to deter slugs - it works wonders.
Also the hair gradually rots down into the soil so it improves the soil.
Title: Hair
Post by: DolphinGarden on August 01, 2005, 15:36:49
My barber wouldn't give me any waste hair three weeks ago when I got mine cut. And after I plucked up the courage to ask him in the first place, d'oh.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: suzylou on August 01, 2005, 16:14:27
Hmm, maybe your barber has better plans for it ;)

I was watching "The Allotment" on DVD only last night and the guy in that uses hair around his tomato plants in the greenhouses - apparently slugs won't crawl over it, and it rots down into the soil.

I am in the group that is grossed out by the thought of handling the hair clippings of strangers though!  :o
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: wardy on August 01, 2005, 17:07:48
I like that DVD - it gave me the info re the no dig spuds which I'm just harvesting  :)
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: westsussexlottie on August 01, 2005, 18:54:12
personally I find the slugs worse to handle than the hair - so hair it is.
Some barbers sell hair to gamekeepers to keep deer within confines as the smell scares them.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Marianne on August 01, 2005, 19:08:21
I thought hair did not decompose.   ??? They have found Egyptian mummies over 2000 years old still bearing a full head of hair !  :o ::)

Perhaps it needs to be treated before putting on the compost heap ?
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: northener on August 01, 2005, 20:18:58
I put the fluff from my bellybutton in. Its always blue.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: wardy on August 01, 2005, 22:52:05
That's the same lore as carrots are always in sick  ;D
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: amphibian on August 01, 2005, 22:54:31
I thought hair did not decompose.   ??? They have found Egyptian mummies over 2000 years old still bearing a full head of hair !  :o ::)

Perhaps it needs to be treated before putting on the compost heap ?

But the hair on a mummy is in very dry, worm free environment, afterall the rest of the mummy hasn't rotted away either.

Mummification (whether wet or dry) stops hair decompossing, but in the soil it will break down over time. Check out the hair on the Tollund Man, who'd been lying in a peat bog for 2500 years.

(http://home6.inet.tele.dk/hjortspr/images/Tollund.jpg)
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on August 02, 2005, 01:05:17
Hair is denatured protein, and will rot under normal conditions, albeit slowly. Peat bogs and mummies in the Egyptian desert are definitely not 'normal conditions'!
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Marianne on August 03, 2005, 20:59:54
Amphibian thanks for that post, VERY interesting indeed and hard to believe this man has been lying in the bog for that long.  It looks as though he could awaken any time !

 :)
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: amphibian on August 03, 2005, 21:02:27
Amphibian thanks for that post, VERY interesting indeed and hard to believe this man has been lying in the bog for that long.  It looks as though he could awaken any time !

 :)

He looks very peaceful for a man that was ritually murdered and dumped in a peat bog.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Marianne on August 04, 2005, 20:10:21
Yes - I remember watching a programme about "his" discovery many years ago.  It is just absolutely amazing and it really looks as though he is asleep.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on August 04, 2005, 22:18:47
Perhaps he didn't mind bering sacrificed, if thet's what it was. He may have thought he was going straight to heaven, if they believed in any such place back then.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: amphibian on August 04, 2005, 22:24:50
Perhaps he didn't mind bering sacrificed, if thet's what it was. He may have thought he was going straight to heaven, if they believed in any such place back then.

Quite likely, his last meal was a ceromonial one, as was Lindow Man, a man that died in a very similar fashion, and was fished out by a peat cutter (alas she had been cut in half by a mechanical cutter.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Marianne on August 05, 2005, 11:09:32
Amphibian - you say his last meal was a ceremonial one.  Do we know what he last consumed before his death??
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: RosieM on August 05, 2005, 12:38:32
I also add hair etc to the compost heap, added the said compost to the raised beds this spring. No apparent problem.

I dug up a large lump of my daughters hair the day before yesterday and although I am anything but sqeamish, it did give me a bit of a turn!!

 :o

I'm not sure about the hoover bag thing though, isn't it supposed to be unacceptably high in heavy metals? Or am I thinking of something else?

Rosie
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: amphibian on August 05, 2005, 19:31:39
Amphibian - you say his last meal was a ceremonial one.  Do we know what he last consumed before his death??


Yes, the bog people, sufficiently preserved to tell, had enjoyed a last meal of a soup containing unusual seeds.
Title: Re: Hair
Post by: Marianne on August 05, 2005, 19:40:53
Amphibian - thank you for that additional information.  I am very interested in the subject.  :D
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