Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: jimtheworzel on April 04, 2011, 12:52:50
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hi all
just wondering, how many newbies give up the plot in the first year ?
and for what reason. it was a good idea at the time !!.
jim
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I have just had a tenant return one after 6 weeks due to ill health. All newbies on our site are given a three month probation period. Some do not get it renewed because the plot has in most cases, not been touched since the day it was signed for; meaning it is in a worse state for weeds etc since before it was allocated.
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In the days when we only offered full-size plots covered in weed and bramble - plenty. Since we started offering only half-size plots, four in the past two years (and one of those moved out of the area).
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We also have been using a 6 month probationary period for new plotholders for the past few years, I think it has been a great success as it prevents the plot being tied up for years in dispute while we try and evict someone who has done little or nothing to it. The state of the plot doesn't seem to matter, some of our more neglected plots have been transformed by newbies.
Most comon reason for non cultivation I guess is the undersestimation of time and effort it takes to keep on top of a plot. We have had a few people with odd excuses though, they 'only wanted a summer plot' or 'had planted it all up but when they returned (months later) the weeds had overgrown it all'....
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We had someone ask for a Summer plot once Deb, our site secs face was a picture
My next plot neighbour Sid has given up his bigger plot next to me and kept his smaller one opposite, two lady's have taken on the split plots, but have not been seen yet, the weeds were controllable 6 weeks ago, but now they will have a job to get on top of it, the dandylions are all over the place, I've topped all the ones with in reach, if they don't turn up soon I'll have to take action. :P
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We have about fifty plots on our site, most started two years ago and a few last year and we have another eight or so newbies this year. Only three people have given up and two of those had health issues.
We have no rules about cultivation though some people have taken longer than others to get things going. I think several who would have fallen foul of cultivation rules have turned things around with a bit of time and perseverance. One plot was a mess at the end of year one but is now a joy to behold.
We just do not seem to have problems with newbie syndrome.
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We have two plot inspections a year, but they are fairly low-key. They are done by a couple of Committee members - not the officers - plus a couple of other plot-holders. They decide when to do it and what criteria to use. We stress that we are not counting weeds, or looking at gardening styles, but looking for warning signs of members who might be falling by the wayside.
They report back to Committee, their results are discussed and I make a low-key contact with members as needed. That's normally all that is needed. If problems continue, then it becomes decidedly more formal, and if necessary we take steps to get rid of them.
But normally, just the fact - and the fairness - of the plot inspections is sufficient.
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We have two plot inspections a year, but they are fairly low-key. They are done by a couple of Committee members - not the officers - plus a couple of other plot-holders. They decide when to do it and what criteria to use. We stress that we are not counting weeds, or looking at gardening styles, but looking for warning signs of members who might be falling by the wayside.
They report back to Committee, their results are discussed and I make a low-key contact with members as needed. That's normally all that is needed. If problems continue, then it becomes decidedly more formal, and if necessary we take steps to get rid of them.
But normally, just the fact - and the fairness - of the plot inspections is sufficient.
not that we have inspections but the way above should be done by all associations
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We have two plot inspections a year, but they are fairly low-key. They are done by a couple of Committee members - not the officers - plus a couple of other plot-holders. They decide when to do it and what criteria to use. We stress that we are not counting weeds, or looking at gardening styles, but looking for warning signs of members who might be falling by the wayside.
They report back to Committee, their results are discussed and I make a low-key contact with members as needed. That's normally all that is needed. If problems continue, then it becomes decidedly more formal, and if necessary we take steps to get rid of them.
But normally, just the fact - and the fairness - of the plot inspections is sufficient.
This is the way to go I think and we too try to keep it low key. We rarely have to throw people off but newbies need a bit of encouragement every now and then (as do we all!). Some people just cant comit the time and effort and they generally leave when they realise that. Mind you our waiting list got so long that people's situations may have changed quite a lot while waiting...
We only turn over four or five plots a year but I would say out of five - one will leave in year one and another in year two. The rest will be OK!
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no wonder newbie give up on the plot when they have choice of no plot or weed infested mess. No wonder there so many poor plot on allotments.
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if you have good intentions and are dedicated then a weed infested plot shouldn't be a problem - our plot policing is quite lax but we do have quite a long waiting list but it is hard and unpleasant sometimes needing to evict someone, what usually happens is they just stop turning up and that makes the decision done and dusted :D
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It's a 50/50 split with newbies on our site.
Some just don't realise how much hard work is needed to maintain a plot, then lose faith and dissapear
Also a few have turned poor plots in to something to be proud of.
When a plot does become available it is rarely in a good cultivated state, which can be off putting for newcomers
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no wonder newbie give up on the plot when they have choice of no plot or weed infested mess. No wonder there so many poor plot on allotments.
I have noticed that there are quite a few allotments that have a change over date in the early spring just as the weeds are starting to grow, on our site plot rental runs from 1st Jan to 31 Dec this gives the newbie a chance to do winter digging without the weeds growing behind them faster the they can dig.
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Paul. What a great idea. Why has no one thought of this before. Probably because the subs are paid in October.
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Our subs are due on January 1st, with a cut-off date of our AGM at the end of January or beginning of February. I ask members who are thinking of giving up or down-sizing to let me know before the bills are sent out in December. This means that by mid-February I know which plots I can re-let. I've just finished this process, which means that newcomers can get to grips with their new plot at the start of the season.
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That is really sensible Trevor.
I know that Squash at Walsall Rd puts a notice up well before October asking if members who are thinking of downsizing or giving up would let her know.
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That is really sensible Trevor.
I know that Squash at Walsall Rd puts a notice up well before October asking if members who are thinking of downsizing or giving up would let her know.
Last year was the first time I did this and it worked. A few weeks ago we had no waiting-list for the first time in about seven years. That only lasted for about a week and we have a waiting-list again now.
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Our change over date is 1st Feb and most get stuck in during March. Perhaps the change over date is relevant.
I do think people need to be warned about weeds and what to do about them. The first couple of weeks of may are particularly problematic, I went on holiday and returned to find millions of them on a take over bid. Because they had two weeks to get hold it was a real chore to get rid of them.
But I think a little aencouragement and support goes a long way.
Our plots were very well fertilized at the beginning so it was a case of light the blue touch paper and stand well clear. It will be interesting to see what happens when that runs out.
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Our fees are due this weekend and new plots generally start becoming available after that when people don't turn up to pay or give them up...which to me is daft because people end up with plots on which the weeds are actively growing and end up battling them before much work can be done :-\.
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Our changeover date is "Lady day" which was the Quarter day when Agricultural tenants paid the first quarter's rent I believe. We stuck to that date because of nostalgia on my part I guess.
I can see what you are all saying about an earlier date being more practical esp. further south.
In practise on a small site I often have an inkling that someone is giving up by then anyway.
Some people are very reasonable and give as much notice as possible to let the next person get a head start.
Some do not! ;)
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People tend to underestimate the size of the job, especially when they take on a plot in a bad state. Quite a few disappear once they realise what they've tackled!
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Our AGM is the last weekend in March and the financial year - (rent payment) - starts on 1st April. I was instrumental in changing this from December. I have been secretary for over three years and have noted a big improvement over that time. People used to ignore my letters. This year two members got back to me to say that my criticisms were quite right and that they were giving up their plots. Mind you the new secretary will still have to chase up one or two!!
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I cannot understand why anyone would pay good money for a plot and not do it, would it not be better to just give it up so that someone else can have it that will use it.
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The rents starting in Jan works, plus a friendly attitude from the committee , although advice is not usually hard to find on allotments, tips an soil conditions, pests what grows well etc is always a help, some tenants need info on when to plant seeds etc, we have some guides stuck up in the shop, and are planning an expansion with a library , magazine subscriptions, soil testing etc.
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Ours are due in January, still the two split plots next to mine are not being worked, the one opposite has not been attended since last Summer, he grew loads of squashes, pumpkins, sweetcorn etc, but the weeds grew around them and were never picked, I am told he has paid his money for this year but that and the two around me are getting junglised and there's enough dandylions to fill a skip, one is not happy and ready to explode. >:( >:( >:(
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Would it be possible to produce some kind of exam for potential plot holders. Questions such as how long are you going to spend on the plot each week, when should you sow carrots, why should you remove dandelions and what will you do with 10 millions hat hen seedlings could be covered. More contentious could be what are your children going to be doing while you are busy on the plot, is your dog going to be under control and are you going to spray weedkiller on a windy day.
Which of the following will annoy your plot neighbour the most, dog doo on their plot, weed seeds blowing all over the place, children running all over the plot, all of the above?
Where is the best place to get advice: other plots holders, a good gardening book, the internet, A4A, I just hoping to muddle through or I already know everything about everything so I need no help?
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Digeroo if they new all those answers they would not be newbies.
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Digeroo ;D
But there is a lot to be said for nursery plots: starting newbies out with a small area and see how they get on before giving them a 5 or 10 pole plot.
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First it was something of a joke as Denbyvisitor spotted, and secondly I thought perhaps such questions might just make them think before taking on a plot. We are not suffering from newbie syndrome. Just been down on site and most of our Newbies are down there getting stuck in.
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Like the idea of a quiz , also a test digging session , some starters think the spade is just for shoveling...
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That's why we introduced Starter Plots - just two raised beds each about 4' by 12', plus a cold frame and a communal grassy orchard - as folk who have never gardened before can manage that. And the first three takers have now moved on to 'proper' allotments and are going great guns!
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Where is the best place to get advice: ....... A4A, .......
Love it!!! ;D
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Its worth looking a a potential new members garden if thats a mess aviod
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I would move all the newbies onto my plot and start them off digging
After a couple of days or so when they've got the hang of it I would move them on to other projects
Weeding
Digging pits
Hoeing
Bringing their home compost and putting it into my daleks and giving them a goood mix
Painting and clearing out my shed
Etc, etc
After a few months the keen ones would be given a plot to thereselves
Job done. ;)
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Thanks for making me smile, Cornykev
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Is ours the only allotment site that does not have a waiting list?
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bumping.....may be new reasonns to pack it in
jim
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Is ours the only allotment site that does not have a waiting list?
My old one didn't but that's cos no-one knew it was there I think....
chirsc
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I have just seen an ad in our local news letter offering allotments on our site. The site was extended to accommodate the waiting list 18 months ago.I think there are quite a few who took a plot and then gave up quite quickly.
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Like the idea of a quiz , also a test digging session , some starters think the spade is just for shoveling...
I have had a heart attack and bowel cancer, i dont do digging, i use all petrol tools if i can, eg rotavator, electric barrel pump to water plot with a hose so i dont hump water about, , . So i wouldn't be entitled to a plot by you criteria, since i dont do hard work....
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Like the idea of a quiz , also a test digging session , some starters think the spade is just for shoveling...
I have had a heart attack and bowel cancer, i dont do digging, i use all petrol tools if i can, eg rotavator, electric barrel pump to water plot with a hose so i dont hump water about, , . So i wouldn't be entitled to a plot by you criteria, since i dont do hard work....
.... I was thinking along similar lines...... :)
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And us :-X
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With reference to the last few comments, lets not forget that allotments are for everyone to enjoy. They should never just become an enclave of bad-tempered old blokes guarding their veggies from the outside world as if they were the Crown bluddy Jewels...
I don't 'dig' either, but between me and my family we haved managed to plant up almost the whole of a new allotment. We tasted the first Strawberries yesterday, and the first new potatoes will come out this week. If fact, thinking about it, those Strawberries we planted last Autumn are the first crop to come from the allotments. :)
'Nufff said. ;)
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It's taken me 4 years to get the hang of everything! And still, some things go horribly wrong.
You have ups and downs and you are working with a living thing which is rewarding but hard and frustrating sometimes. You get ill and can't work your plot, or you have a set time to do it which falls through because of bad weather, circumstances etc. SO sometimes it does get away from you. That is when it is good if your fellow siteholders give you a hand! or at least encourage you, instead of sniping and trying to get you to give up your plot!
Once in a period fo heavy rain. I just couldnt manage the weeds and grass on my paths and edges, and because that was so much of a problem I wasn't planting and caring for veg. Some neighbours were very kind and really helped me by cutting my grass down and scooping up some of the edges. It was a small job for several people but one which was just getting on top of me. That really helped me no end and the next year was more successful for me.
So maybe we need to also be kind to newbies and advise them on how to care for edges, paths etc, which tend to be hard jobs! and also show them how to garden "easier" - covering and mulching for example. I learnt all that the hard way but now I notice some neighbours have copied me! So maybe I am no longer in the newbie category ;D ;D ;D
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I think that's perfectly acceptable antipodes. Would do the same for someone who has at least made an effort.
My neighbour has planted 2 1/4 rows of spuds and that's the size of her work. HEr plot is covered in weeds that were left last year and also this years seeded ones. I've only met her once up there and she's a stranger to the other plot holders too. This is her second year of paying rent but doing nothing. I think enough is enough in this situation
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My wife and i took on a plot about 7 weeks ago about 60 foot in length by 12 foot wide
It had not been touched for over two years because the previous tenant had paid in advance for it and only when he decided not to carry on that we were offered it.
The first few weeks we cleared and dug and planted about half of it in between our shift work , This week i decided to tackle the bottom half only to find everyone had been using it as a dump -- so far i have dug a trench 4 feet deep the width of the plot by 2 foot wide and so far i have dug up 9 carpets and countless plastic bags as well as 3 wheel jacks .
I can fully understand why people give up when this kind of thing happens but i want this plot to work and am willing to keep going however sometimes i look at what i have left to do and think sod it why should i clear it only for some one else to benefit if we ever gave up .
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My wife and i took on a plot about 7 weeks ago about 60 foot in length by 12 foot wide
It had not been touched for over two years because the previous tenant had paid in advance for it and only when he decided not to carry on that we were offered it.
The first few weeks we cleared and dug and planted about half of it in between our shift work , This week i decided to tackle the bottom half only to find everyone had been using it as a dump -- so far i have dug a trench 4 feet deep the width of the plot by 2 foot wide and so far i have dug up 9 carpets and countless plastic bags as well as 3 wheel jacks .
I can fully understand why people give up when this kind of thing happens but i want this plot to work and am willing to keep going however sometimes i look at what i have left to do and think sod it why should i clear it only for some one else to benefit if we ever gave up .
Invest in a large lump of silage sheet, thick black plastic that farmers use, you can get it on ebay. Cover the entire plot now, until next spring By that time virtually everything will be dead, and a lot easier to dig and clear. Uncover small sections at a time, dig, riddle out the couch grass and tap roots, cover back up. By next May you'll a a fantastic plot of ground, weed free, which has accumulated nutrients as if it had laid fallow.
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welcome to A4A keejaay :) sounds like you have your work cut out! Make sure you make time for sitting back and enjoying the plot ;)
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It's taken me 4 years to get the hang of everything! And still, some things go horribly wrong.
I have been growing veg for 39 years and and still things go horribly wrong.
Some things you win and some things you loose.
Welcome to A4A Keejaay. I do hope you get things sorted. Sounds as if you have quite a job on.
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may be the answer is that every who takes on a plot pays a deposit; of the cost of a days rental of a strimmer and some one paid to strim. then if the plot is left weed free the deposit is paid back if not the deposit is used to hire some one to stim it down. if i was to take on another plot i would be drawn to wards one that been strimed. be intersting to see how many is strimed before handing it back just toget the deposit back;
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Welcome to A4A Keejay... :)
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The first few weeks we cleared and dug and planted about half of it in between our shift work , This week i decided to tackle the bottom half only to find everyone had been using it as a dump
Hi keejaay - sounds like you and your wife have done that really fast. I hope you reported that fly-tipping to the council (or whoever runs your site) they ought to be aware. And presumably they collect rubbish at your site? If not, report it as fly tipping, I think they come and collect then.
Some neighbours were very kind and really helped me by cutting my grass down and scooping up some of the edges. It was a small job for several people but one which was just getting on top of me. That really helped me no end and the next year was more successful for me.
Your site sounds nice, antipodes. We never bump into people regularly on our site. Three of my close neighbours look like they're going to be 'losing the plot' soon, one of them has apparently already given up. I'd like to be able to encourage them and give help, but I have no way of contacting them... Most people don't join our society, which is entirely voluntary and the only way of joining is by signing up at the annual meeting. (Yes there really is only one meeting a year!)
Sometimes it doesn't need people to help physically, but just for someone to offer encouragement, and say, yes it really is hard sometimes, and you're not the only one whose plants get diseases or whose weeds grow faster than their veg! It's normal. That can give you courage to persevere. People give up when it seems like the risk of failure outweighs the effort needed.
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Sometimes it doesn't need people to help physically, but just for someone to offer encouragement, and say, yes it really is hard sometimes, and you're not the only one whose plants get diseases or whose weeds grow faster than their veg! It's normal. That can give you courage to persevere. People give up when it seems like the risk of failure outweighs the effort needed.
Agree with you there Pige, was having a chat with one of or older gardeners, and she's been there donkey's and was saying about how she was thinking of giving up, so I kept chatting and got me into action, offered to help re-roof the shed (we'll do it together, an extra pair of hands will make it an easy quick job), plus some extra salads I have will be on her doorstep anyday soon. OH will be mowing some paths this week so I'll make sure the ones round her plot are nice and shipshape.
I think, where we are in particular, has been a tough year, especially if you sow directly, as there simply hasn't been enough rain (until last night....)
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bump
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I try to get to know newbies by offering spare plants/produce and introducing myself(I'm not on the committee but I don't get out much ;))
The OH often strims the odd path etc and helps with compost heaps and sheds. Many plotholders help out when folk are sick or finding it tough.Sadly there will always be those who despite support and encouragement just don't go the distance.It would help if on our site they didn't let plots get so overgrown that when re-let they are such hard work .But that's another thread eh !
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The plot next to me was taken 2 years ago by a Father for his young Daughter (11ish). What a waste that turned out to be. I gave them brassicas which they put in but never harvested, they put a few fruit trees in and that has been the total of their input. I think the Father comes and digs a bit when it's rent time and that's why they are allowed to stay. Oh for an enthusiastic person to take it on. Our corner of the site is friendly and we all give away plants that are surplus to each other and those with mowers do the paths. I consider myself lucky. ;D