Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Jeannine on March 29, 2011, 20:37:00
-
Thinking of putting together a perennial veggie plot.. any ideas of what is good/bad etc.
Not fruits..other than rhubarb.
Obvious first thoughtsa are asparagus,globe artichoke, cardoon,JA's
Babbington leeks but I know nothing about them..
Some of the onions but again my knowledge is diddly.
I have Deleway cabbage but not grown it yet??
I would really appreciate any help you can giove me
Thank you
XX Jeannine
-
5 star perennial broccoli, not sure how long it lasts, though :)
-
Chives and herbs.
Sorrel. Nice for salad and sauce with fish. :)
-
One of my new discoveries this year has been Egyptian Walking Onion's which sound amazingly fun to grow as they literally walk around your plot over the years. I've only got a few first year seedlings at the moment so can't report back on how they taste or 'work' but they'd fint nicely into your perennial plot I'd think...
I'd love some Babbington leeks but haven't found any for sale anywhere, so if you do find some I'd love to hear where... :)
-
Sorrel. Year after year, lemon flavoured and soft.
-
Perhaps some herb/salad stuff. Lemon sorrel, turkish rocket, chives; 'normal' and chinese sort, oregano (to go with all your lovely tomatoes).
Part from what your already mentioned there is not huge amount of perennial crops available that would yield plenty.
Good King Henry is perennial and used like spinach.
There is several perennials in allium family..you already mentioned Babbington leek.
Hardneck garlic could be grown in perennial-like fashion. By sowing the bulblets in autumn..you get chive-like growth in spring..left in ground they will grow larger bulbs..that can be left in ground to be used as greens..or thinned out and left to grow larger bulbs in following year. Third year you get scapes that can be eaten and then the full size bulb. ;)
-
Rhubarb is a vegetable and along with Globe artichokes and Asparagus are the only true perennial vegetables
Others such as potatoes and Jerusalem artichokes grow fresh each year from the tubers of the previous year.
Some beans if not killed by frost will grow over several seasons but these are technically more of a fruit since we eat the pod or/and seed as a savory.
Commercial growers find the yield reduces after the first year so prefer to grow from fresh seeds to maximise on production.
Many herbs will carry on for several years but some harder ones get tough and woody so for commercial purposes fresh seeds are sown each year or two to produce the tender crops which are better for cooking.
Comfrey, Mint and Horse Radish will all soon fill any area and are not only perennial they are difficult to get rid of. Container growing is best for these to curtail the spread.
There are onion types which keep on reproducing. Chives and Welsh or Egyptian onions. they keep spreading out.
Leaf beet, a spinach substitute, often called perpetual spinach, will self seed and keep regrowing in the same spot for a while.
People generally confuse fruit and vegatables
-
There is huge number of different plants that are true perennials..but many of the are shrubs or wild plants that are either invasive or simply too large to grow in limited space..but then they would be more as 'edible's' rather than veggies.
I've been looking to trial some evening primrose that apprantely all parts of the plant are edible...perennial, pretty but not sure how much it would over take it's space.
-
Sweet cicely to flavour your rhubarb!
-
I should have thought you'd be too cold for too long for perennial veggies. Here in central Belgium we are usually frozen from late November till the end of March with a couple of weeks of snow and a couple of weeks of dry -15C to -20C but the last 3 winters have had really cold spells and more snow.
I've had to give up on my asparagus bed and have never got globe artichoke through the last 3 winters (-25C, -26C and -32C). Perennial white broccoli froze to death, ditto leeks, broccoli, kale..........
Half a dozen purple sprouting broccoli plants have survived this year but are looking sorry for themselves. I hope they'll perk up this spring as I love the taste and can't get it in shops. One single purple pak choi has survived in a 2 metre square bed. I expect the fartichokes will be OK but no signs yet.
On the other hand, fruit is good - rhubarb, black and redcurrants, autumn raspberries, loganberry, damson tree, blueberries, bilberries and stawberry plants all doing fine.
-
Thank you all, some good ideas there.. I don't want herbs as there is a very b9ig herb bed here so no need.
I realise rhubabrb is a vegetable but often referred to as a ftuit as per it's usage which is why I put in in with a fruit comment..but then tomatoes are fruit !!
I think the sorrel and the Good King Henry is good.
Can anyone explain aboiut the perennial onions.. I do have seeds of somer that I think are perennial but am confused about them. Which is which??Walking, multiplier etc.
Can someone explain to me about Babbington leeks pleaseand hpoefully where I could get them.
.
JAs I consider perennial as I left them in the ground and unlike potatoes they came back every year.
We are not allowed to grow comfrey,mint, borage or horseradish on our community gardens.
I have seeds for ninr star broc but they are very very old.
Thank you XX Jeannine
-
Obbelix...it is much much warmer here than in the UK XX Jeannine
-
Good King Henry is a terrible weed. Once it gets bigger than small it is very difficult to shift it from the ground. If you pull it up you simply break off a branch and its roots are very large. I have taken to pouncing on it as soon as I recognise it. Not great on flavour either. I am not sure which King Henry it was named after but feel sure it was a terrible insult.
-
Great idea for a plot.
Anyway, Chriscross gave me some seed of the walking onion, and it has survived our winter, and is bulking up, I'm really not sure what to expect next! I read that the head literally droops down and then the cycle starts again, but maybe someone more experienced can help
I've also picked up a packet of Welsh Onions, and they are classed as a hardy perennial, and will over time bunch up, and the bunches can be divided.
re the 9star broccoli, I picked up a packet at a seed swap, and you are very welcome to some, if you'd like some fresher seed
1066 :)
-
Nice to hear from you, Jeannine. :)
How about seakale? You can grow it from seed and start cropping once the plants are well established, like rhubarb. In the UK, you can also buy plants or 'thongs', ie pieces of root.
Although it's traditionally forced in complete darkness in late winter/early spring, I just cover mine with a big plastic box or some fleece as it starts to grow (late Feb this year). This doesn't exclude all the light to give you whitish shoots as per the old recipes and gardening books, but it does give you pale green shoots which taste even better. It also keeps the pigeons off at a time of year when there's not much else for them to scavenge.
In recent years, my seakale has wanted to send up flowering shoots as soon as it breaks into growth, so what I actually get is two or three pickings of seakale broccoli. Yum! ;D
I should add that it has survived the -10 C temperatures and the snow without seeming even to notice!
It's also an extremely labour-free crop, once established, if not terribly high-yielding. I do weed around it, but I haven't fed it in the past three or four years and it doesn't seem to have noticed!
:)
-
Jeannine..easiest way for you to see differences of different 'wild' onions and leeks is through these pages..
http://www.pfaf.org/user/DatabaseSearhResult.aspx?LatinName=A%25 (http://www.pfaf.org/user/DatabaseSearhResult.aspx?LatinName=A%25)..alliums start from page 10 and carry on to page 13... ;)
Some wild species don't produce seeds or only few and are then started from small bulbils that form underground and/or on top of stem above ground..there is not necessary any flowers on the stem, but that depends individual variety/species....that's why I gave that page for allium database as there is so many differences within leeks and onions..not so much in their use but how they grow.
-
Jeannine. tomatoes may be fruit botanically but here in USA they are considered vegetable by use and under law.
-
Jeannine. tomatoes may be fruit botanically but here in USA they are considered vegetable by use and under law.
What?? You have vegetable police!! Blimey, that's strict
Weed-Digga
-
Weed-Digga no vegetable police the reason for tomatoes being a vegetable has to do with an old tariff case.
-
Welsh onions seem to go on for ever end ever and seem to pretty hardy as they survived this winter.
The trouble is that I keep forgetting to use them ::)
-
5 star perennial broccoli, not sure how long it lasts, though :)
3-4 years tops...
Babbington leeks are another species of Allium, they look a bit like leeks but taller and generally thinner. I could mail you some bulbils in the late Summer. Not sure how frost proof they are, mine survived fine but many people lost them this year, I think they need good drainage for very cold weather.
Scorzonera... better than Salsify and they do last several years getting fatter as roots.. think medium sized carrots but twice as long... :)
Make sure you have French Sorrel for a good lemon taste but the larger leaved varieties are hardiest.
Good King Henry is OK... but like Sorrel has limited uses.
Skirret if the soil is very damp...
;D
-
As scorzonera has been mentioned:
I once read, but can't find it again, that if you replant the growing top of the root, it will eventually grow another root. That would make it worth setting aside a permanent bed full of scorzonera at different stages of regrowth, rather than starting it off every year from seed.
Does anyone know if that is true?
Mine is entering its third year, and I am eating the young leaves in salads.
I very much like the idea of plenty of perennials, and am reading this thread with interest.
-
I may be being dim..... but I am interested in the scorzonera. Do you grow from seed one year but keep the root in the ground so it thickens over three years?
-
I sowed the seed one spring (into loo rolls, planted out), and let them grow all summer before digging up one or two to try. Not bad, not large, good flavour.
I then read you could leave them over the winter and they would get bigger; the following year was very busy in many ways and I basically forgot about them, but admired the flowers. This year I read you can eat their young foliage, which is quite nice mixed in with other salads.
I am sorry I have not dug any up yet, and cannot report on the state of the roots after so long, so I'm not very helpful. But I am interested in the idea of eating the roots and replacing the leafy bit along with some of its root, to establish a permanent patch. I suppose I would have to label the eaten ones to remind myself to leave them alone for a year....
Last autumn I also put some self sown seedlings into a pot, where they are now coming up again, so they will be joining the group.
When I dig one up, I will add a note to this thread.
They seem to be robust plants with no problems, so I would like to establish a colony in a corner of one of my plots; a bit like established rhubarb, that comes up year after year with no fuss apart from a bit of compost thrown at it from time to time.
-
I keep a clump in one corner... that have been there for about 5 years to produce seed. I find they germinate best while fresh. I also have a row in the root bed, which are sown in August (where the root bed will be) grow through the year and are eaten about now as we clear the bed for potatoes... so they get about 20 months. This gives roots thicker than my thumb if thinned out a bit.
You then have to rogue out the plants as they regrow from the depths when you are digging the spuds out...
:)
-
I've just ordered some babington leeks from here, seems very reasonable £2.20 inc postage for 15 bulbs ;D
http://www.specialistauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1498790
have yet to receive them so can't comment on the seller but she seems very nice from her email today.
from the listing -
A strange member of the onion family. It is said to be a relic of Neolithic farming and grows wild in a few places such as Cornwall and Ireland.
When it flowers it sends up a stem about 6ft tall with small bulbils which can be used for cooking although they are fiddly!
The base bulb can be used too, to my taste they are more garlic than onion, the bulb is ‘solid’ not in layers like an onion. 15 bulbils per pack.
This was a favourite plant of the gardener E A Bowles who used it to add height in his 'grey' border - there is a silvery touch to the leaves and they start early in the Spring but don't 'flower' until July.
PLEASE NOTE: I can only supply this item to the UK and Europe.
-
Oh lots more great info, this is becoming exciting.Thank you for the great onion link
I am hoping to do this on a high raised bed.. very high as is it for disabled gardeners. The drainage is excellent so no problems with that I hope. The rain here in BC in unbelieveable, it seems to have rained since August and is still forecast for the rest of April. Our regular plot is ankle deep in water, so eveyone os waiting for a break.
Oh and we just found out today that we have another plot..yeah!!
I have never grown sea kale but remember eating it years ago and it was good so I think I will go for that..does anyone know what it is like of not covered to blanch it.
Saddad, thank you for the offer..will Pm you.
So much to think about now.. much more than I realised.
Is anyone growing Deleway cabbage.
XX Jeannine
-
Jeannine..there is quite few growers of Daubenton kale over the pond..
That is perennial kale that doesn't produce seeds..so it is propagated from cuttings..something else for you to hunt ;)
-
Thank you again XX Jeannine
-
Yes, seakale leaves and stems get quite stringy and coarse as they mature, so I wouldn't choose to eat them except finely chopped for, say, a stir-fry. They're pretty much a spring crop, therefore.
They set seed around the original plant pretty easily. I haven't tried propagating them, but I mention it in case someone else wants to try it.
Being a perennial, they're far less work than most brassicas. All I do is weed around them and put a large container on top when growth starts in spring, and other than that, it's just harvesting, really. In most years, I find the butterflies leave them alone - perhaps because by the time they come to lay their eggs, the leaves have toughened up. I don't bother netting them. But it's only fair to say that eggs have been laid once or twice...
:)
-
We are growing Delaway cabbage... but as it is non-hearting we sow it later in the season and eat it over winter.. :)
-
How perennial is it?
-
I don't know... because we eat it all in Spring.. :-X
-
Here is quite good list of perennial veg that can be grown..
http://www.perennialveg.org.uk/conversion.htm (http://www.perennialveg.org.uk/conversion.htm)
-
...and apparently Chinese broccoli = kailan..that is usually grown as annual is in fact perennial! ;D
-
I checked out the link from the auction site for Babbingtons and am confused.. she is selling bulbils, but I thought they had to be collected much later in the year?
I did find a source for babbington seeds but they had to be fridged and germination could be months..
My list is getting quite interesting now.. will have toi go and start finger walking foir sources.
Skirret eg..any clues.
Kailan I have, but hadn't heard it was perennial..
When is the best time to sow my Deleay cabbage please.
XX Jeannine
-
Bulbils...She must have had them in storage to prevent them from 'sprouting'..usually you do collect them later on..as fresh bulbils. I was bit suprised to see them still offered this time of the year, but then again like with shallots and other onion sets..suppose babbingtons store too ???
I didn't know Kailan was perennial neither I just happened to to come across it mentioned on agroforestry web site where they list lot of perennial leafy edibles.
-
So to sum up, here is the list of evrything suggested.
Globe Artichokes
Cardoons
Asparagus
Jerusalem Artichokes
Deleway Cabbage
5 Star Broccolli
Chives
Garlic chives
Egyptian walking onions
Sorrel.. I am a bit confused on this one as to variety
Good King Henry
Leaf beet..perpetual spinach
Seakale
Scorzona
Salsify
Skirret
Daubenton Kale
and one I just remembered Chinese Artichokes, small compared to JAs but I used to have a source for them.
I still have to figure out the types of onions, therfe are loads on ther onion link but would prefer to hear from soemone who has actually grown some of them personall.???
XX Jeannine
-
Chinese broccoli = kailan..that is usually grown as annual is in fact perennialHere is the link where I read it..http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/Catalogue200910.pdf (http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/Catalogue200910.pdf)..see page 35
-
Self seeding rather than perennial but I have areas of rocket, lambs lettuce and land cress that I only have to weed.
-
Jeannine at the moment I grow wild leek and been growing tree onions=walking onions in past.
Walking onion you grow just like normal onion..but..once the 'flower' stem sprout..on the top will actually appear lot of mini onions in a bundle.
You can use those as fresh mini onions or pickle them and if you leave them be the stem will fall down and all the little ones will root on soil and thus form new growing points...or you can separate them and get them tidier spaces on ground.
Babington leek is very similar to walking onion but just leek and you can eat the young green leek as well as the bulb under ground and on top of the stem.
Wild leek does flower but doesn't produce bulbils on the stem..instead it produce tiny bulbils underground around the base of the 'old' bulb...again all parts are edible/usable in different stages.
-
Well I have been shopping.
I fouind Skirret, on it's way..
Multiplier onions and three types of Egyptian onions bought and being shipped in the autumn.
Still working on the others..
XX Jeanniune
-
How about the Three-Cornered Leek? More productive and earlier than either chives or garlic chives. delicious leaves, flowers and small bulbs.
I've posted about it here, with photos (towards the bottom of the page):
http://oca-testbed.blogspot.com/2011/02/winter-foraging.html (http://oca-testbed.blogspot.com/2011/02/winter-foraging.html)
-
I'm astonished! I once pulled up a pretty flowering allium from a gutter in Eastbourne and put it in my garden, and have regretted it for the past 10 years of attempted eradication! It never occurred to me that it was edible. What a revelation! It spreads like wildfire, if anyone is thinking of planting it, but I suppose you could scythe off the flowers. Thanks!
-
Hmmm might have to try those... :)
-
Mmmmmmmmmm I wouldn't mind that one too ::).
-
Thank you Ian..another one to search for, XX Jeannine
-
Sounds like Artichoke has plenty to spare ;D
Yes, I suspect a lot of people plant it for its flowers. It's fine so long as you harvest it regularly to prevent flowering. Or eat the flowers, which have a super-strong oniony flavour, nice fried.
-
How about the Three-Cornered Leek? More productive and earlier than either chives or garlic chives. delicious leaves, flowers and small bulbs.
I've posted about it here, with photos (towards the bottom of the page):
http://oca-testbed.blogspot.com/2011/02/winter-foraging.html (http://oca-testbed.blogspot.com/2011/02/winter-foraging.html)
Funnily enough I had some of these on top of my fajitas tonight ;D It's very common here on Guernsey - grows through and competes with grass ;D on verges for example. Very nice but may be invasive to the point of being a problem elsewhere in the world I'd wonder.
I know you have leaf beet on the list Jeannine but I'd try and get hold of some wild seabeet too - Again its common here and I forage it rather than growing it but its very tough and very delicious and I think a little more interesting than the cultivated forms as a leafveg (although that may be the salty growing conditions perhaps?).
-
Sea beet, thank you.
Yesterday I received some of the onions that were supposed to be shipped in the fall!!
I have Fleeners Topset, they are in little clumps, like tiny pickling onions.
I also got what are described as multipliers called Broome Longkeeper.
I have to admit I am thinking I am really thick when it comes to these onions, my brain is just not taking it in.
I think I have the first ones figured out, they topple over and re grow..walking onions,definately perennial, but the other ones which look just like shallots I am confused about.Is this one perennial or is it just another form of shallots.Oh by the way shallots are not easy to find here unless in seed form. I don't want to put the Longkeeper in my perennial bed if just shallots. ???
I also got Sorrel seeds yesterday too, so I am making a start.
Another question. Am I OK to plant these two onions together in the same bed, I read somewhere that they don't make seed , if that is right I guess they can't pollinate each other.
I have two other types of walking onions also coming in the fall.
You know squash are much less complicated.
I am still searching for other stuff.
Thank you for the help.
XX Jeannine
-
Yes, onions will be ok together..as they are propagated from 'sets' they won't cross.
Broome longkeeper is actually potato onion..but..really there is not much difference to shallots..they should grow larger than shallot.
-
But do I leave them in the ground as I woulkd the other one or replant them as |I would for shallots?
XXJeannine
-
Well..you could with some protection..they are not quite as hardy as walking ones..so propably better treated as shallot..
This is good page about potato onion cultivation..
http://waldeneffect-org.branchable.com/blog/Potato_onion_cultivation/ (http://waldeneffect-org.branchable.com/blog/Potato_onion_cultivation/)
-
That is great thankyou. I read on there someone from Europe was saying they are not available over there..is that right?
XX Jeannine
-
I've never seen them in any cataloques although I know odd nursery who does supply if you are lucky to be 'first' in queue.
I do know few members here who does grow them though.
-
Bump .. for interest and updates
I have found three cornered leek
XX Jeannine
-
I've been trying hard to get rid of my three cornered leek, but I've been a bit more resigned to them since I found out they were edible, and quite nice.
-
If you do get sea beet, a blog I occasionally read has a super article recipe...look at his veg link too
http://huntergathercook.typepad.com/huntergathering_wild_fres/2011/04/sea-beet-and-phat-beets-saag-aloo.html
-
i had my tree onion and babington leek delivered to day from plants with purpose the size of spring onions at over £2 a bulb i was expecting them to be the size of average normal onion :o :o :o :o
-
i had my tree onion and babington leek delivered to day from plants with purpose the size of spring onions at over £2 a bulb i was expecting them to be the size of average normal onion :o :o :o :o
Spooky, I got mine too :)
-
Hi Jeannine... is that "big" sorrel or French (Buckler leaf) Sorrel? I have some of the latter... you can have as seed or root cuttings... :)
-
Hi Saddad, hows your doings!!
I have just one sorrrel, it is the one from the UK realseeds, French I am sure..what the heck is big sorrel?
I didn't get anything from Plants with a Purpose other then a refund... Hector and Brown Finger, they wouldn't mail to Canada as I expected..
XX Jeannine
-
Normal "big" sorrel has huge leaves and just looks like a dock leaf (because it is... Rumex Acetosa) French has a much smaller shield (Buckler) leaf...
You want big for soups and so on and French for small salad leaves... :)
-
hector was your bulbs the size of spring onions :o :o
-
Sorry if I am repeating myself here (have not re-read the whole thread) but I am rather pleased with my scorzonera patch, 3 years old by now. I dug one up the other day and it had expanded into a number of separate thongs, very long, fairly slim, and also hollow, which worried me.
Cleaned them, boiled them in water and vinegar, peeled them (black skin rubs off fairly easily), and added them to a chicken casserole to bulk it out. They were tender in spite of being hollow, and tasted really quite interesting.
I won't be eating them every day, but they have earned their space as perennials. You can never get the whole root out, and I have found, where I think I have dug it out, that eventually they reappear like dandelions. But much nicer. You can eat the smaller fresh leaves in spring without apparently damaging the plant.
I need to get them into an out-of-the-way corner, like horseradish, and just let them do their own thing until I feel like digging some.
Anyone else growing them?
-
Yes... and I agree. The shoots below the surface from a broken root are really nice... :)
-
hector was your bulbs the size of spring onions :o :o
Some bulbs were smallish...others seem regular sized? Like a shallot size?