Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: fireman on March 06, 2011, 10:09:51
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Hi can anyone offer me some urgent advice for a friend of mine.She has been having problems with a fellow plot holder at the allotments and to cut a long story short she had to make complaints about her to the Town council who own the allotments as the committee was run by her friends anyway it was agreed at a meeting between my friend ,the Town Council and committee at a meeting that anew committee should be voted in and everyone would move forward from that date and froget the past.But disater at the AGm the person in question got voted in as secretary of the committee and as they were all friends they voted each other in and refused to let my friend on the committee,Anyway my friend decided to just get on with her plot and ignor them but due to bead weather hadnt been going up much but the week after her first vist to prepare for the new season she started getting letters from the committee saying she must attend a meeting to answer questions about her actions and attitued to other plot holders (she had not been up much or seen anyone when she had).Anyway she took the letter to the Town Council who adviced her because of the previous problems ask for copies of the complaints before attending the meeting and when she received them not only were they 8 months old (never been bought up at AGM or Town Council meeting)they were all lies and were from the friends of the lady who she had problems with.She was adviced not to go to any meeting and the committee were warned to stop sending letters and stop dragging up old news but they ignored the council and demanded she attend a meeting the council ended uowritting to thrm warning they were taking legal advice and all letters and meetings must stop but again they ignore them and sent an eviction notice to my friend again council told her to ignor it untill they got legal advice .Then my friend got a letter from the council that said the committee are the correct body of people to evict who they want evn though she had proved it was avendetta a local councillor adviced her to put in an appeal which was heard a a Town Council meeting but again a letter has come saying the Town Council cannot get involved as the committee run the site evn though they own it and if my frined does not agree with it being a proper process she must take it to a court of law.What the hell is he supposed to do now evn the councillor who adviced her has said that at the meeting it was sgreed it was all wrong but as it was taking up so much of the town clerks time and she was threatening to leave due to the extra work load it was agreed that the committe can do what they want as the council will not get involved evn though up to a week ago they had bee advicng my friend and told her they were in the wrong.She now has a week to remove her stuff before the committe change the locks to the site my frien ha s evidance the the AGM was a shambles but the council have washe dther hands of it and are now not even returning my friends calls
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Hello, and welcome to the forum!
where in the UK are you? How many plots / tenants are there?
was the AGM well-attended?
It seems that the site committee do not have many checks and balances in place. does the committee haver an 'arbitration & appeals' committee?
has your friend asked to see copies of all the minutes of meetings?
lots of info needed before folk can give advice
but, you've found the best place for impartial advice.
rgds, Tony
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Hi tony,She is in Derbyshire,There are 14 plots and approx 30 members and yes AGM was well attended and other members stood up and said it was a farce and run for the personal wants and needs of the committee and other members told them they were very rude the way they spoke to my friend .She recently had a chat with another plot holder asking if she was aware they were trying to evict her and she said she dint want to get involved.After speaking to the plot holder who stood up at the AGM he was clear it is personal against my friend but again he just wants to do his plot and not get involved,The general thing is as its a small site the group running it are all friend and others are afraid to speak out in case they are next .What happens if my friend does not remove her stuff before the date and refuses to go .As for the copy of the minutes she has a copy but we have hard evidance it is not what happened at the meeting and it is all lies.They have no appeals committee .
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The trouble with trying to give advice is we only see one side of the story and unless you have the backing of the majority of your members who will stand up to the committee instead of giving the same old weak excuse of "i dont want to get involved" you are waisting your time
If you have this backing the first thing you need to do is get a copy of the alletment constitution, which you are entiteled to by law. Find out how many member are required to call an Extra Ordinary Meeting.
Make your adgenda IE vote off the secretary, new committee reinstatement of your friend without etc
The commitee can not evict without an eviction order, for that they need to take her to court. but they can refuse to renew the lease of your friend.
To be asked to go before the committee a letter must presented to her with the request to attend if no letter was given then it is not with standing.
If a letter was give the matter can be discussed in her absence but not in the pressense of the person who complained.
She is also entitled to a reprisentive at the meeting
If the Secretary is the complainent then if your freind attends the hearing the person who made the complaint must leave the meeting and be there as the witness against her, there for not being able to make any judgement agains her.
If the minutes have not been read out at an AGM to the members, voted for and seconded by members as being true record then they dont mean a thing.
The committee must give 28 days notice to remove her stuff and again it must be in writing
Sorry dinner break hope this helps
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Hi Fireman, wretched story, I'm really sorry your friend's having all this trouble.
Can you post the eviction notice please. It's not possible to give sound advice without seeing the actual letter.
However much the committee huff and puff your friend has every right to stay put and continue to garden his plot until either the committee re-enter and take possession of the plot or they obtain a court order for possession. If either one of those things happen then he is evicted, but only then.
To re-entry, the committee need to physically exclude your friend from the whole of his plot and post a prominent notice to that effect. Changing the site lock would probably do the job if the site was securely fenced and your friend couldn't get in, otherwise they'd have to fence the plot round or deploy security guards - not likely to happen with an allotment, but it's been done. Once the committee has re-entered your friend needs to apply to the court for relief. It's possible for the committee to re-let the plot, but it's possible for the court to order the new tenant off and reinstate your friend, especially if the new tenant is installed with indecent haste by a committee wanting to make good on a the eviction.
Anything left on the plot once the committee re-enter remains your friend's property and the committee become what's called an involuntary bailee which means that are legally responsible for keeping it all safe. If the committee damage anything or dispose of it then your friend has grounds for a civil action for conversion.
If the court finds the re-entry to have been unlawful because for example the notice of eviction was defective then your friend has grounds for a civil action against the committee for trespass. I've never heard of it being used for this, but if the committee re-enter on the basis of a patently defective notice or without a right of re-entry in the tenancy agreement than I see no reason why the police shouldn't lay charges ofcriminal trespass.
If your friend is on the plot when the committee attempt to re-enter he is completely within his rights to use reasonable force to resist - the court would decise what was reasonable, but it's a good idea to go no further than some vigorous pushing and shoving. Your friend needs to call the police immediately. Eviction is a civil matter and the police have zero interest in who's right and who's wrong, but they have a duty to prevent a breach of the peace. If there is a physical confrontation then your friend needs to press charges for assault, but it's really important that he behaves as calmly and as reasonably as possible.
Re-entry has very many pitfalls for the committee and they'd be stupid to try, but there are ever so many stupid people in the world so it's possible.
The other way the committee can make good the eviction is to apply to the court for a possession order. Your friend is still the lawful tenant until the court awards possession and the bailifs turn up to manhandle him off. Your friend will be invited to defend the claim.
Bear in mind that if he loses in court he may well have to pay court costs and the legal costs of the committee - maybe £1k in total - so he needs to make an informed decision about whether to defend the eviction. We need to see the notice to give any meaningful advice about that.
It is vitally important that your friend doesn't give his site key back to take any kind of unequivocal action that would make it look to the court as though he'd surrendered his tenancy. He also needs to pay his rent, and if the the committee are stupid enough to accept it after issuing a notice to evict then by operation of law that defeats the eviction.
It's probably also possible for your friend to take pre-emptive action and apply to the court for releif now, and that has some merit if the committee are likely to re-enter because it saves him the serious hassle of being off his plot in the spring.
Lots to digest. I'm afraid there's no white knight to defend your friend's rights, he will have to do it himself, and if he's not that comfortable with the idea of a possible physical confrontation then he needs to weigh up the pros and cons of defending his rights, because bullies don't like being challenged. And he'd be well advised not to bang on to his plot buddies about his woes either - it's very unlikely he'll find anyone who gives a toss, and he'll soon find himself ignored.
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thankyou unwashed
your reply was of great help i will get a copy of the eviction notice tomorrow from my friend and post it on to you again many thanks
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Reply to Unwashed
My friend said is there anyway she can send you the copy of the eviction notice without it being on display as shes concerned about her details been on the web?
She has been told to send an offical letter of complaint to the town council to appeal against the eviction on the date of eviction, but she hasnt got a clue what to put in letter.
Also she has phoned NSALG legal team and they say that the council are the landlords and if she as got a problem with how the committee are running the site then she must complain to the council but the coucil keep saying everything is up to the committee.
If the council dont regulate what the committee do then they can go round evicting anyone at anytime as they know that council wont do anything about it
thanks fireman
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I'll PM you my address.
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thanks for that unwashed
would it help if i get off her the letters the council have sent aswell in reply to her appeal which will give you a broader picture.
Another question is a committee a sound body if there is no chairman elected at the AGM ?
FIREMAN
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thanks for that unwashed
would it help if i get off her the letters the council have sent aswell in reply to her appeal which will give you a broader picture.
Another question is a committee a sound body if there is no chairman elected at the AGM ?
FIREMAN
Sure, it helps to get the broader picture, but the tenancy agreement and notice evicting her are the essentials.
If the notice is unenforceable then it doesn't much matter about the committee, and that's a harder argument to make anyway.
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unwased
i have sent over eviction notice
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As eviction day is tomorrow what happens when my friend gets to the allotment site and finds the committee have changed the lock to the site gate which would prevent here getting to her plot?
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Cheers, I've received that. I really need to see the tenancy agreement too.
Your friend has every right to continue to use her plot until either the committee exercise a right of re-entry under the tenancy agreement or obtain a court order for possession. If the committee changes the site locks then that's probably an effective eviction and she then needs to apply to the court for relief.
The notice appears to me to be defective. If it is a Notice to Quit as it describes itself then your friend is entitled to a statutory minimon of 12 months notice (S.1 Allotments Act 1022 as ammended). If it is in fact a notice of forfeiture then it is not compliant with S.146 Law of Property 1925 in that your friend must be given an opportunity to remedy the breach by paying compensation, and no such offer is made.
It's not clear that the committee have the authority to forfeit the lease as it would appear that the council are the landlord.
If your friend didn't receive a fair hearing and an opportunity to defend the allegations against her then I would suspect a court would agree that there has not been due process.
Please post the tenancy agreement as soon as you can.
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Whilst we have put an appeal in against the eviction and a formal complaint about the committee to the council can the committee still close our plot or re enter ?
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Whilst we have put an appeal in against the eviction and a formal complaint about the committee to the council can the committee still close our plot or re enter ?
To be honest I'm not 100% sure, but as I understand it, yes, the landlord can always re-enter. You can physically resist, but once the landlord has re-entered you're evicted. You then have to go to court to argue that something about the eviction was unlawful or unfair, but the details of how are more than I know.
If you're arguing that the landlord correctly exercised a right of re-entry but that it is inequitable for you to be evicted then I'm pretty sure you apply for relief from forfeiture. But if you're arguing that the landlord didn't have the right to re-enter then I think you still apply for relief from forfeiture, but it's possible that you apply youself for possession on the basis that the landlord is trespassing - but this is getting too technical for me I'm afraid.
It's unfortunate that it's all a bit late in the day now. I suggest your friend now needs to go to a solicitor. I haven't seen everything I'd need to make an informed opinion, but it looks to me that she has enough for a successful action so she should get most of her costs back - but it will cost her up-front, and she might end up losing and paying the other side's costs too. I wish it were fairer than that, but it ain't, I'm sorry.
Can you post the tenancy agreement?
How long has your friend been a tenant?
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will post tenancy agreement later
its moved on again now as CEO of local borough council and local MP are getting involved now as they have had a copy of appeal letters
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That's fantastic news, that should buy you some time and support. I'm really pleased.
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its moved on again now as CEO of local borough council and local MP are getting involved now as they have had a copy of appeal letters
Yay!!
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yes that is good news!
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Keep up the good work... :)
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Hi Fireman, do let us know how you're getting on. Best of luck.
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received another letter from the committee which tells her she as 7 days to remove her stuff but she has got to ask the secretary to let her in to arrange a supervised visit as they have locked her out and told her she has no lawful right to be on the allotment and if she is seen will incure criminal proceedings.
after 7 days they are going to charge her a cost per day to look after her property if not removed by 2 weeks they will dismantle everything and say they arent responsible for any loss or damage. they have done this even though they know there is an appeal in process and a formal complaint against the committee and that the MP is involved.
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Are they entitled to charge her? What criminal offence will she be committing? Trespass is not a criminal offence.
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She should turn up on site with you and her solicitor, and start threatening that bunch of a*******s. They have no legal right to lock her out, OR threaten her with criminal proceedings.
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fingers crossed it will be sorted they just gave away my things and literally set fire to my plot
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You have them for theft and criminal damage then. Call in the police. :)
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I did they were not intrested
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That's typical, but see a solicitor. Don't take it lying down, that's how these people get away with it.
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update on friends plot there may be some light at end of tunnel.
She has dug her heels in and got councillors involved who have told the town council for them to inform the committee to halt the eviction process has they are not happy with what has been done by committee, and she is going to get an independent hearing so she can tackle the committee.
so now waiting for dates
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That's very much more encouraging, well done.
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Nice one Fireman. :D
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please keep us informed of any progress with this issue.
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well we are back to square one councillor went to town council to alter eviction and get a key but town council wont move and say its up to committee and any issues with committee we need to go to NSALG, but NSALG say its not for them to sort its town council to sort as landlords. again my friend is stuck in the middle while all the authority decides who is to take control she is still locked out of her allotment.
what is the process to go to the courts to get relief so can get back on plot is it straight to a court or through solicitor?
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You'd be well advised to go through a solicitor. A solicitor's letter might be enough to get the council to do the right thing, and if you have to go to court it's not entirely easy to do it yourself, and if you have a good claim you should get most of your costs back - but if you go and see a solicitor she can explain all that.
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how frustrating, you get the Councillor on your side, and then they are unable to act on it. It does sound like a solicitors letter might do the trick. Keep plugging away Fireman and friend!
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Hi update on friends plot eviction.
She has finally got the town council to admit they are the authority in control of the allotments today and they are going to discuss her appeal hearing at next council meeting but this is not for weeks and she has pointed out her plot will be cleared by then .But she recieved a call out of the blue today from another councillor telling her not to be bullied and she needs to get in out in to the public domain or she will remain stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.!Becaus ehe is disgusted whats happening and that she is not being helped by the council he serves .he said the only way it willl be sorted is if she lets the locals know what is happening to her .she ha snow got lots of support from local people willing to stand up against the committee with her and they have started to battle on her behalf by contacting the council to demand they act .so now she is speaking to the press and giving them all her evidance so i will keep you posted and send the link if it gets printed .
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well update got confirmation that the town council are the allotment authority so the committee dont have the legal right to keep her off the plot. so she has been to allotment today and the committee approached her and locked her in the allotment and called the police. the police turned up on blue lights and threatened to arrest her for breach of the peace if she didnt leave the site and to sort it with the council tomorrow.
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That's unlawful imprisonment, so she should go straight to a solicitor. Handle it right, they could well have made a fatal mistake.
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Tell her to give up gracefully. Even if she wins her right to the allotment, it will not take long for a good committe to trump up a list of complaints against her.
If her committee is listening, I can show them creative ways of evicting unwanted tenants.
Nodig
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Wow No dig - ease off on the helpfulness eh?
Has she actually contacted a solicitor yet?
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What Robert said.
Nodig, I'm sure one thread is enough for your protest, please have some consideration.
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I cant believe what im reading! they locked her in???? My god what sort of horror bags are these people! and then the police threatened to arrest HER not THEM!
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Seems like a good time to remind people of the existence of the Ignore User option. Go into your profile and follow the instructions. Posts made by any users you choose to ignore will then be hidden from you.
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What Robert said.
Nodig, I'm sure one thread is enough for your protest, please have some consideration.
Suitably admonished. :-\
Nodig
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As said that's unlawful imprisonment, the old bill take forever to turn up and they would never have turned up blues and twos and would have taken action against the Jailers, time to move away from these posts one thinks. :P :P :P
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My friend does not tell lies .The police did turn up with blues and twos on and when they got to the allotment the committee opened the gates to make it look like they hadnt locked her and her car in but police wouldnt believe they had locked her in and was not interested in viewing the video she had got of the committee informing her they had locked her in .so she doesnt know what they committee told the police what was happening way they phoned them up to attend but will find out as the news reporter has phoned police with her incidant number for a report.This situation is difficult enough for her and i have been able to give her some great advice from this site without the minority thinking she is making it up .
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I'm with you Kev. It's a wind up.
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I know exactly what I would do. Firstly I would travel a good distance away and get a spare key cut. Then I would hand my plot key in and leave the allotment only to return in the middle of the night a couple of months later and then I would spray all the committee members plots with weed killer. I know its a nasty thing but so are there people (little Hilters)
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;D...........How come that you can read my mind powerspade.....uncanny ::)
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Well after the drama of my friend being locked in it is now in the local paper The Derby Evening Telegraph on page 3 but not on internet as yet.She has tried to sort it with being in public but they forched her hand anyway as the story was done over the phone its not as strong as she would like but they are planning an indepth one after they have come and read all the evidance .And even though the wildlife garden was an issue it not the real reason the committee nasty as the she created the garden in2009 and battled to open it as public had payed to be involved and guess what two days after the committee said they dismantling her plot they are now opening it and she not allowed to be there and be involved.Even on the new allotment web sit that has been created by one of the nice plot holders it even said it was done by a dedicated plot holder -my friend- then they evict her.\and no before any one shouts up it is not sour grapes from my friends side about the garden remember she has all th evidance to back her story and if needed she could email any thing to unwashed to show the truth and tehn as he seems to be a respected member of this forum he could assure the odd doubter its all true.(if thats ok with unwashed)
So to the two forum members who doubted the stort being real and did not believe her then read the paper.My friend was only aware the committee had made a 999 call when it was in the paper as the press asked the police which is even worse as that number should never be used for something so trivial .My friends son is in the same police force and cannot believe that the committee would waste such valuble police time to call them when my friend was just gardening.
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sounds like a real mess!
Still hoping your friend manages to sort something positive out :)
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link here: http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/Plot-bizarre-twist-999-eviction-greet-prize-winning-gardeners/article-3381144-detail/article.html (http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/Plot-bizarre-twist-999-eviction-greet-prize-winning-gardeners/article-3381144-detail/article.html)
It mentions a "Wildlife garden".... on both sites I've ever been on such a thing would be a perfectly reasonable cause for eviction, it not being a properly cultivated area for the growing of crops.... but then that clause varies from site to site.....
chrisc
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my friends site is not the wildlife garden that s on an area of scrubland that was cleared with a grant from b&Q to create a tranquil seeting are for locals that have always popped into the site for a cuppa and chat as the site is in the middle of a cemetary.and in 2009 they held a macmillan coffee morning that raise 700 pounds and on that day locals payed a donation to macmillan in return for sowing a pot of flower seeds in memory of a loved one and wrote a message that was then laminated and my friend grew on the flowers then when they were planted inthe garden there message was put with it .the plan was that the garden would be opened once a week for a couple of hours supervised for the local peolpe to come and have a cuppa meet the plot holders and local PCSO and they woul dmake a donation to a nominated charity for the year for there cuppa all this was with the blessing of the plot holders at the time untill the new not nice commitee took over and as i said there is a bigger issue that didnot get in the press but willl do .
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Yep..It's found in national paper too..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371141/Police-called-evict-prize-winning-couple-allotment-neighbours-judged-big-wellies.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371141/Police-called-evict-prize-winning-couple-allotment-neighbours-judged-big-wellies.html)
..seem to be bit short notice for eviction though..I'm sure it cannot be legal eviction ???
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Yes, I have seen it also on the daily mail website
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The situation is intolerable. The couple have not been evicted and have a right to their tenancy until either the committee get a court order for posession or else effect re-entry. I suggest that the tenants have a claim against the police who have a duty to respect tenant's property ownership.
In any case, in the case of forfeiture for breach of a covenant you can apply for releif before you have been evicted and this is what the tenant need to take legal advice on now. The committee might be able to make the eviction stick if they have acted reasonably and given the tenants a fair hearing and found them to be in breach of the agreement, but there may well be a good argument that the complaints are malicious and the covenant unfair.
I'd also argue that the notice served is not a notice of forfeiture, but a Notice to Quit, and it does not give the statutory minimum 12 months notice terminating on the aniverary of the agreement. Alternatively I'd argue that it does not comply with S.146 Law of Property 1925 in that it does not give the tenant the option of compensating the committee for the breach.
I'd also like to see the committee's authority to serve a notice enforcing the council's covenant, as it would seem that the council are the landlord.
Also, can you post the tenancy agreement please as I'd like to see the text of the covenant and the right of the committee to forfeit.
Don't delay, go and see a solicitor now.
All the very best of luck fireman.
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After reading about this lot in Heanor and personally I don't give a hoot who's right or wrong I'm just glad we did not get our Allotment society up and running last year, why can't people just go to their allotments do their thing, don't get involved and just go home happy, you only have to look at the posts on here and it seems to me that if your face doe's not fit with someone on an allotment committee you're off the allotment, :
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It doesn't have to be that way Mr Smith, and I'm sure there are lots of good committees out there, but as usual you don't hear about good news much!
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Hope you get this sorted.
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After reading about this lot in Heanor and personally I don't give a hoot who's right or wrong I'm just glad we did not get our Allotment society up and running last year, why can't people just go to their allotments do their thing, don't get involved and just go home happy, you only have to look at the posts on here and it seems to me that if your face doe's not fit with someone on an allotment committee you're off the allotment, :
It does happen, but this site covers the whole country, and we only hear of the odd case or two. I was once in a comparable situation, with the committee trying to drive me off my plot. I'm now on the replacement committee.
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And my town council are trying to drive me off my plot. You'll get despots in all kinds of places, and they only thrive if good people let them - didn't someone say that already?