Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Dandytown on January 07, 2011, 00:50:13
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Just a thought about the winter digging. Most at our allotments managed to get there's done before the cold spell started
I still have a substantial amount to do, most of which needs double digging.
I was chatting to one of the old timers and he mentioned that if I dug now (which would of course be very difficult) that any warmth down in the soil would be lost and the soil would take much longer to warm up in the spring.
Any thoughts on this? :)
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I wouldn't dig when there's snow on the ground, but I've often dug under fairly cold conditions, and it's never caused a problem. When to dig depends on your soil. I have a light soil, so I can dig now, as long as it's not waterlogged. If you've got a heavy clay, you could do real damage to the soil structure.
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I'm with Robert on this - I'll be leaving any digging until it is less wet and will be easier to manage - as I'm on clay
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At this time of year i get lots of digging done but i always then cover the patch with either weed proof fabric (becuase it keeps of the weeds seeds and keeps the patch warm) or manure and weedproof which is a nice warm blanket to. the fabric is black and helps to warm up the newly dug patch a treat.
I think it depends on how bad the perrenial weeds are on you r patch and how difficult your soil is to dig.
If i looked out onto lovely friable loam with no marestail or dock then i probably leave my digging until i was ready to plant each bed. but the garden fairy hasnt been :) and each bed takes quite some time to dig and weed over and so getting a head start makes all the difference.
I think its lovely to have advice from folks on your plot and us of course, but the thing about it is that its your plot, and trying things out can produce interesting results so maybe dig some bits and leave others and see how you get on.
happy digging and take care of your back
x sunloving
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I have a heavy loam soil which can get waterlogged, I always try to get winter digging down by the end of November. I dont cover the ground as I found the pests take cover under it.
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For what it's worth, the most successful and methodical man on our site (in his 70s) always does his digging in the early spring, ready to plant seedlings he brings on at home. He has virtually no perennial weeds, and his serried ranks of brassicas, beans and everything delicious are a sight to see as the season progresses. He says that if you dig in autumn you have to do it all over again in spring, though he has not explained why. He doesn't cover his undug ground.
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Thank you for all you advice.
My soil is light and fertile and it was heavily manured by one of its previous owners and therefore as a beginner I still managed to grow fantastic crops in my first year (2009).
A young lad had it before me and he ran it into the ground and therefore the 3/5 of it that I have not grown on yet is ridden with mares tail, thistle, nettle and bind weed. As a result digging consists of me on my needs picking all the bad stuff out. It takes time but a job well done. Most people think I am praying when they walk past my gate. Maybe I should start :)
I think I have enough weeded ground to plant what I need to come the mad rush in spring. May just have to be flexible and rearrange where things go. A large amount of the plot is for squash so I could probably get away with digging a 10 x 2m patch for the 10 squash plants and cover the rest and allow the vines to grow over until.
Sorry to waffle on but its nice to get my thoughts down on paper so to speak
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For what it's worth, the most successful and methodical man on our site (in his 70s) always does his digging in the early spring, ready to plant seedlings he brings on at home.
Same here, I tend to dig in the spring...from March onwards (where needed). I would dig in the winter, but its generally still got stuff growing!!!! It always amazes me how come October some peoples plots are barron and empty!!! ::)
Empty out my compost bins, stock pile manure and do any construction needed in the winter.
Just a point on your digging though... you dont need to dig where your potatoes are going (you'll do that as you plant them)... I would only lightly dig your brassica bed to remove weeds, same with onions etc, if your growing squash/pumpkin no real need to dig here.... just a square and dump manure in - same with your beans....
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Don't dig if the ground is frosted or the soil sticks to your boots is what I was always told by my dad.
There is one exception and that is when you are just clearing a plot that had loads of brambles and other nasties growing on it. Then it does not matter.
I dug most of my plot as it was cleared of plants and sowed green manures. I will hoe them down in Feb/Mar depending on the weather and try to get away with a good hoeing, rather than digging again, to break up the top soil.
I have taken to double digging when i extract the potatoes. That way i have a chance of taking out any volunteers and the soil is ready for the leeks and later the garlic and overwinter onions.
Bill
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A large amount of the plot is for squash
Yeah I saw your list of squash on the other thread!! ;D
I keep clearing my plot of brambles and couch bit by bit over winter, some of it's still not cultivated. But I probably wouldn't bother digging or weeding otherwise till nearer planting time. But I'm on heavy clay, so it just doesn't work well anyway - you can't shake the soil off the weeds properly.
I know people have said that on here before, about the soil not warming up as fast if you dig when it's cold, I'm not that convinced. Not that I have any evidence either way. I just always thought that the soil temperature was something influenced by much larger changes over months, which a few spadefuls couldn't change. But I just don't know.
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I do agree and I was a little skeptical (being a scientist myself) as to the effect of digging the ground and heat loss. However, the old timers often know what they are talking about so I do my best to follow advice from time to time.
However, given the weeds on my plot, I think I do need to press on as soon as its not frozen.
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I don't think there's an issue with burying the heat in the soil, the more significant factor is likely to be the moisture content as wet ground will take a lot of energy drying out before it begins to warm up, and double digging is going to bring some damp soil up to the surface.
But digging anything but the lightest soils wet is also going to destroy the soil structure and that's not helpful.
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the issue is more with burying the frost!!
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I wouldn't bury frozen material, but I don't worry about anything above freezing point. Or frost that hasn't actually penetrated for that matter. I suspect the amount of rainfall soaking in has a lot more to do with changing the soil temperature than anything else.
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This year I just didn't get anything done in autumn as the very cold weather took me by surprise, so it will get dug over in spring. I dig as I go, preparing one bed at a time, firstly the shallots and onions, then the spuds and peas. Then once though are planted, or started at least, I'll dig over the carrot beds and plant a few lettuce here and there, and then start to prepare the areas for beans, courgettes, toms etc while they grow on inside my flat. Sometimes you run a bit late but in the end, it all gets done!
Here it goes from freezing cold to sopping wet so there's not much chance of doing anything :( :(
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I have manure delivered at the end of September,early October and then commence with digging it all in.I try to get the whole plot done before Christmas and this year I have manged it.
Its just left to sit now and break down with the frosts and the worms do their bit too.
As soon as the the ground is dry enough in spring I will rotavate the whole plot.
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The chap next to me tried rotovating but the soil is so fine that the rotovator just went down. Not something I have ever considered on my plot as I don't want the roots being chopped into a thousand peices.
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I never got my winter dig done due to working away all year and returning late October. As my plot was covered in hessian prior to my departure I am not overly worried about my winter dig as hopefully the coverage was killed most weeds. Though I am a little disappointed at not being able to dig in manure late autumn in preparation for my brassicas next year.
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I never got my winter dig done due to working away all year and returning late October. As my plot was covered in hessian prior to my departure I am not overly worried about my winter dig as hopefully the coverage was killed most weeds. Though I am a little disappointed at not being able to dig in manure late autumn in preparation for my brassicas next year.
just put a layer of manure on the top of your mulch, plant through it!!
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Dandytown - if you are growing loads of squash don't bother digging that area. If you can get hold of some manure cover that area, then cover it with either black weed suppressant or cardboard (or whatever you can get hold of), and then plant your squash through holes. Seasy !! That way the combination of manure, weed covering and growing squash will kill pretty much all the weeds off, so that by next autumn you can uncover it, do a bit of light weeding and cover again ready to use in winter or spring. No digging needed ;)
1066 :)
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That sounds tempting, 1066.
But would that work on land uncultivated for a long time, so it was covered in couch, rather than slightly weedy? I was wondering whether the squash would get enough nutrients from the manure, if it had to go down through a layer of couch grass?
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It might not altogether get rid of the couch, but it would thin it out a lot. Get the squashes off to a good start, and the couch wouldn't be able to compete. I haven't tried this method, and I think I'd tend to plant it over or through holes in the cardboard just in case. The grass would rot fast enough; it's just the roots which would survive for a while.
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To be honest its pretty much how I've cleared my plot, which hadn't been used (properly) for some years, and hence all Couch and a few other nasties. Worked well for me. The couch that isn't totally killed off is severely weakened by the combination of manure and covering. I cut a hole in the weed supressant, added a bit of compost and piled the manure up a bit and planted sizeable squash plants. Watered when needed - the moisture does seem to be retained better this way as well. I do tend to try and add maybe 3" at least of manure to really get this to work.
1066 :)
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Sounds like a clever way to work. Last year I found some dark heavy duty fabric and planted cabbages through some holes. It was brilliant as I didnt have to weed at all for the hole season! Most of this material has been stripped for pathways.
So far, on a 10 x 10 patch for 8 squash I have cut down and covered 10 x 8 of it with clear blue builders plastic and am planning to double dig the remaining 10 x 2 and manure ready for the 8 squash.
Will the waterproof plastic covering kill the weeds over time or do I need to put something on top to stop the light as well?
Do you think it will be a problem in the summer if I have squash plants growing over the plastic which might have puddles on it on wet days?
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hi - blimey double digging! There's no stopping you!! ;D
re the blue stuff - yes it will let in some light, so if you can cover with cardboard / mulch that would work.
re puddles of water? Not so sure about that, as you need to be able to let water in to where the plants are growing. If it was me I'd take the blue stuff off before planting, but as I've not tried it I couldn't say for sure.
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In answer to the thread title.
Whenever I have time and it's not persisting down ;D
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Blue plastic isn't a good idea because it breaks down in sunlight and you get little bits of it blowing everywhere. It takes ages to get rid of them all, and it won't even last a season! I find black plastic lasts for years; I have sheets which I acquired secondhand when I took the plot on eleven years ago, and they're still going strong.
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Blue plastic isn't a good idea because it breaks down in sunlight and you get little bits of it blowing everywhere. It takes ages to get rid of them all, and it won't even last a season!
Yes we made the mistake on using some a few years back and it lasted about 2 weeks before falling apart. Ruddy pain to clear up all the bits it was. >:(
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My allotment was last dug over three years ago but since then I have just rotovated at the back end and again round about feb/march time, last year I had about seven ton of manure delivered which was rotovated in but this year I will just be applying compost to the areas which I think will need it like carrot and parnip beds, next year the plan is to sow mustard or something similar hoping to give the lotty a good varied feed over a three year period, fortunately we have a good cheap supply of compost from our local recycling center £2.50 a bag, :)