Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: PeterVV on January 03, 2011, 14:37:42
-
I read somewhere that north american ( I think it was ) indians used to grow corn or maize, and beans to climb up the corn, and squash to fill the gaps. Is this possible? , would there be enough water and nutrients for this to actually produce results?
-
I've done it but wouldn't recommend unless you're growing beans to dry. Too hard picking beans green without trampling.
-
I think native americans called it the 3 sisters.
I had a go this year but like GrannieAnnie says awkward picking beans but both sweetcorn and squash did well.
-
I concur... grow a bean for drying... I'd recommend "Trail of Tears"... naturally... ;D
-
Yes, 2 years ago. Unfortunately I had to net the corn and the beans grew through the netting and I could not get it off to pick the beans, some of which were also hidden by the squash leaves and got too big, hence the beans stopped growing and the corn leaves produced a lot of shade so the squash did not do too well apart from that good fun but never again.
http://allaboutallotments.com/
-
Speaking of North American Indians, the book by Mann called 1491 had interesting data about how they grew crops and lived prior to Columbus- completely demolished much of what we were taught in school about them. Also about how we wrecked their society sadly.
Last night we finished watching (from Netflix) a PBS special called "Lewis and Clark" which was about their expedition and dealings with various Indian tribes each of which had their own tribal characteristics. A very interesting film and beautiful photography of the west including old photos of Indian families in case you have a free evening I highly recommend this.
Now back to beans and squash thread ;D
-
I think if you do a search for "three sisters" on this site you'll find quite a lot of discussion on this. I grew corn and squash together this year and the corn was rubbish- I think in the drought the squash may have taken water away from the corn.
-
I did try it one year with Cherokee Trail of tears and Sweetcorn and Butternut but although the sweetcorn and peas were good the butternut didn't have enough room to go in and out of the square. Apart from that it kept legging me over evrytime I got near to it. I remember having to get a crate to stand on to pick the beans when they got to the top. Think the 2 sisters would be ok. ;D
-
I always underplant corm, but I've never tried growing three crops at once. That would only work properly if all three were going to be harvested together in the autumn.
-
The first year i tried this method i grew 2 beans up every sweetcorn and as other have said they are difficult to pick but in the subsequent years i have just grown the beans round the corn round the outside of the block and had no problems and 3 crops from 1 space is nothing to be sneezed at.
-
Yes I regularly do it, it has mixed results. Try growing the beans round the outside of the patch, and put the squash between the corn, they needs LOTS of water and feed, but they do seem to do quite well. My corn last year was failed because of the drought, but I will probably try again!!
-
What about just corn and squash, or corn and beans? would that work better on drywer poorer soil, from what I have been told they used to bury a dead fish before planting wich used to feed the plants as they decayed.
-
they used to bury a dead fish before planting wich used to feed the plants as they decayed.well modern option for that would be application or two of BFB=blood, fish and bone meal ;)
I think which ever way you are going..double or triple cropping the bed..you will need to do your best to make the soil as 'good' as possible.
Squash is really 'hungry' crop...sweetcorn will need good amount of nitrogen to grow good and sturdy plants and plenty of moisture when cobs are developing. Luckily beans are not too fussy but they will need moisture too.
-
I did corn and squash but it didnt really work. I planted the corn too close together and there wasnt enough light for the squash.
I suppose if you leave more space it could work but then you havent really gained much..
-
I found that the beans pulled the sweetcorn down, so I had to get rid of them!
-
the beans fix the nitrogen that benefits the corn and the squash
-
This has come up several times before on various posts and forums
The system was used by the native indians and worked well in their native environment.
However, from what I can gather. The types of corn beans and squash they grew in south america are not the same as the species developed for the weather conditions in the UK so it don't work for us like what it worked for them.
You are welcome to try and can, like all those who we have asked to do before you, accept the challange and report back.
We have been awaiting a report back for many years and trust you wont let us down.
-
the original system used field corn,winter squash, climbing beans.
all crops where harvested after the first frost.
if what to grow the crops in categories for fresh eating you need to use: bush beans,
bush summer squash,sweet corn. The original benefit do not apply work in the UK since the growing issues are not the same. the use of squash rambling around the base of corn was to prevent it from being raided by raccoons a pest not found in the
UK. please, read the previous threads on the subject.
ttfn
-
Well hello plainleaf ! Happy New Year to you.
good advice on the non-suitability of the '3 sisters' system in the UK. ;)
got any tomatoes in yet?
-
tony i am not expecting any till may 1. since variety i am over wintering is not a low tempature flower set variety like siberia. the variiety i am over wintering was a vollenteer from wayword seed.
-
It works fine if you give it lots of space and perhaps more importantly.. grow a corn for drying and a bean for seeds too, any pumkin or winter squash will grow below, when they are all dry, then pick them..otherwise it is too fiddly.
XX Jeannine
-
I tried it this year in my small garden of two 1m by 2m raised beds.
I turned one of the beds over to french beans, squash and painted mountain corn, the painted mountain corn grew so slowly that i had to put in poles for the french beans and the squash tended to encourage lots of snails to shelter in it ! :-\
-
Every year i grow corn with a drying bean growing up them corn and courgettes amongst the corn, it always seems to work well ;D
-
. the use of squash rambling around the base of corn was to prevent it from being raided by raccoons a pest not found in the
Raccoon are so "handy" I doubt squash would deter them from getting the corn.
That said, I might try out the theory by growing some popcorn again surrounded by squash because I'd given up due to raccoon stopping by right when the cobs were ripened.
-
We had badger problems last year they like the plants when they first go it and chew at the stems and leaves. Then they wait and take the cobs!! I erected a Badger barrier of pallets and that worked on my plot- but sent them to someone elses. :-[
When another plot holders potatoes were damaged ( I am sure by badgers) he could not be pursuaded it was not a fellow plot holder and threatened to hit who ever it was. The joys of being secretary! ;)
Intresting to hear of a raccon though- I always have to remind myself you are over the pond GrannieAnnie
-
I erected a Badger barrier of pallets and that worked on my plot- but sent them to someone elses. :-[
Intresting to hear of a raccon though- I always have to remind myself you are over the pond GrannieAnnie
Liked your idea of a pallet barrier.
We know of a family that sets out doll sized tea set and other small props with food every year and takes night photos of the group of raccoon that come regularly to eat, then they send that out as their holiday greeting. A rather unusual card :o but shows the raccoon dexterity quite clearly.
-
Hi all, :)
I tried this a few times, never successfully because everything grows at different
speeds. You can intersperse sweetcorn with squash to save space, I surrounded my sweetcorn in upturned planters with rat traps underneath (leaving a gap) but they never got attacked last year. I also tried growing my sweetcorn in clumps (like grass grows) which didn`t affect the yield.
I don`t have racoons and badgers.
Col
-
[/quote]
We know of a family that sets out doll sized tea set and other small props with food every year and takes night photos of the group of raccoon that come regularly to eat, then they send that out as their holiday greeting. A rather unusual card :o but shows the raccoon dexterity quite clearly.
[/quote]
Can you introduce them to A4A and get them to post them on here!
-
We know of a family that sets out doll sized tea set and other small props with food every year and takes night photos of the group of raccoon that come regularly to eat, then they send that out as their holiday greeting. A rather unusual card :o but shows the raccoon dexterity quite clearly.
[/quote]
Can you introduce them to A4A and get them to post them on here!
[/quote]I'll ask.
-
tony i am not expecting any till may 1. since variety i am over wintering is not a low tempature flower set variety like siberia. the variiety i am over wintering was a vollenteer from wayword seed.
please keep us posted on the results.
I'd love some seed if they prove successful.
-
We know of a family that sets out doll sized tea set and other small props with food every year and takes night photos of the group of raccoon that come regularly to eat, then they send that out as their holiday greeting. A rather unusual card :o but shows the raccoon dexterity quite clearly.
[/quote]
Can you introduce them to A4A and get them to post them on here!
[/quote]My son-in-law emailed me back that the raccoon-feeding- family moved from that locale and now has 9 cats instead :o
-
Well thanks for trying GrannieAnnie we are planning to have a night on the plot sometime to watch the wildlife (in summer) but don't think it would have been as entertaining as that sounds!!
-
I think it's been mentioned before but the corn would be a tall maize grown for flour/mealing and the beans would be a variety grown for dried beans..... Blue Hopi would be an obvious choice for the corn, Cherokee ToT for the bean, though any squash could be used I suspect.... but unless you have a use for a lot of dried corn (winter chicken feed?) then I can't really see the point.... if you do want to grow your own winter chicken feed then sunflowers would probably be more productive and certainly more nutritious...
-
the best use for meal corn is not chicken feed it is to make corn meal. Which when mixed it with they correct ingredients gives you corn bread. yummy!
-
What do you use to grind yours?
-
I think it's been mentioned before but the corn would be a tall maize grown for flour/mealing and the beans would be a variety grown for dried beans.....
And squash are gigantic even in the UK...
No - I'm not the only person to spot this problem, but if you want to grow something through your (modern dwarf) sweetcorn corn then it has to be gherkins or other small cukes.
I think climbing french beans are OK with the other midgets but if you want to go the whole hog I've noticed that dwarf borlotti beans have a habit of sending up a few runners a month or so into the season - they never get quite as big as normal climbers - perfect!
Cheers.
-
I have found that if you plant squash outside the sweetcorn block, and mark the stem with a plastic bottle threaded through a cane so you know where to water, sweetcorn and squash both do well.
The squash stems just meander through the corn, the advantage being the leaves suppress weeds and keep the soil cooler and moister. You can still get to the squash stems easily to water and feed this way so they do not suffer from competition with the corn for water as much. It is also worth trying a smaller squash; I found Baby Bear pumpkins worked really well by this method, they are about 2-3 lb (nicely meal sized) and I had as great crop from 4 plants.