Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Garden Manager on January 04, 2005, 11:32:07
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I fancy some early veggies this year and was wondering just how early I could start growing the following crops: (under cover or outside)
Carrots
Onions (sets)
Cabbage
Peas
Potatoes
I have read somewhere recently that carrots and onions at least can be started in January (mid winter) with some protection.
For those who dont know i live in southern england (if this helps)
Thanks
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My japanese onions went in the ground in November.
I did try an early sowing of carrots last year, under fleece, but very few came up. Same with peas. I will be sowing some early peas into pots in the greenhouse in Feb and then plant them out under fleece in March, just to see if I can get a little ahead, but I doubt they will be much earlier than those sowed directly.
I think there are lots of varieties which are early starters, so long as you can provide some protection from the worse of the weather.
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Richard
I will be starting some first early salad potaotoes in ;arge pots in my greenhouse soon. I do this each year so I am picking fresh spuds very early in spring.
Get your seed potato's chitting away in egg boxes and then nip to the garden centre and buy the biggest cheapest plastic pots you can find. Mine are are about 18 inches across and the same deep.
(If you don't want to buy these you can use black bin liners just as well.)
Put some crocks or stones in the bottom of the pot and then half fill with any old compost you can lay your hands on adding a bit of well rotted manure as you go.
When the potato's have produced sprouts about an inch long pop them in the pot and cover with about an inch of compost.
As they grow continue to cover the leaves a couple of times with more compost until the pot is nearly full, this builds up the area where new spuds will grow.
Last year I put two seed spuds in each pot and it worked fine. As the new tubers swell try and make sure they all stay covered with soil or else they go green.
Water well, don't give them a chance to dry out.
Keep the pot in the greenhouse aslong as you can then move to a bright and sunny spot. If there is a frost forecast bring them inside or into a green house.
In a few weeks time you will be able to tip out masses of sweet, tasty new spuds about the size of pigeon eggs. Once you have tasted fresh home grown spuds you will never buy them again in the supermarket.
Each pot will yield about 5 to 7 pounds of spuds if you do well. The only problem is they don't keep for ages once dug.
Last year I grew Mimi and Shelly in this way, I will be growing Mimi this way this years as I was very very pleased with them last year.
HTH
Jerry
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Thanks Jerry and EJ. I knew it was possible just wast sure about a few things.
If I can get some sets I might grow a few onions in the greenhouse, planted in cell trays, then plant out later. Peas ditto - i shall soon have some guttering to start them off in, so i'll try that.
I forgot in the original post, but what about salads/lettuce? I have a soil border in my GH I was thinking of growing some early salads in. Any tips please? How about outside salads, how early there?
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Got a feeling you can do salads year round.
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I forgot in the original post, but what about salads/lettuce? I have a soil border in my GH I was thinking of growing some early salads in. Any tips please? How about outside salads, how early there?
Salads can go about 12 months a year in a greenhouse. Rocket and Lambs Lettuce are good in winter. It would also be worth while starting off some such as Little Gem ready to plant out under cloches in February.
Jerry
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does anyone know of a comprehensive guide of what to plant when, and what else you can do in the lottie over the seasons. I flail along madly, putting everything in at the wrong times, then sulking when nothing happens (beetroot was my biggest failure last year - first lot, nothing grew, second lot grew then got eaten by those pesky rabbits etc)
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does anyone know of a comprehensive guide of what to plant when, and what else you can do in the lottie over the seasons. I flail along madly, putting everything in at the wrong times, then sulking when nothing happens (beetroot was my biggest failure last year - first lot, nothing grew, second lot grew then got eaten by those pesky rabbits etc)
A good basic guide (some may not approve) is DR Hessayon's 'Expert' book on veg growing. It covers most common veggies, recomended varieties and (most importantly) a table of sowing, planting and cropping times for each. I have just used it to work out the earliest i can grow things - and as a result may be able to 'Double crop' some parts of the veg plot and have stuff growing from march to october (i hope).
There are more 'sophisticated' volumes on the subject, but IMO for the basics the 'good doctor' is very helpfull.
As with any sowing and planting, the timing depends as much on your local climate as it does the crop itself.
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Richard - can't see much point in onions in the gh when you can put them out now?
Carrots need 40F to germinate - work that one out. Outdoor pots - get them chittting now - & then watch the frost! Must try indoor ones - but no need to wait till the sprouts are 1", I reckon? = Tim
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does anyone know of a comprehensive guide of what to plant when, and what else you can do in the lottie over the seasons. I flail along madly, putting everything in at the wrong times, then sulking when nothing happens (beetroot was my biggest failure last year - first lot, nothing grew, second lot grew then got eaten by those pesky rabbits etc)
Have a look at:
http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/
Jerry
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Big G's getting a good plug today!!
Gavin's site is also fun - http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/default.html = Tim
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I do remember reading 30 years ago an article that stated that growers in the most favoured parts of the mainland U.K. (South-West Wales, Cornwall) were planting potatoes on a field scale, without protection, in February- and that was before global warming! Richard is, I imagine, in a fairly favourable area too, being where he is.
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Richard - can't see much point in onions in the gh when you can put them out now?
Carrots need 40F to germinate - work that one out. Outdoor pots - get them chittting now - & then watch the frost! Must try indoor ones - but no need to wait till the sprouts are 1", I reckon? = Tim
This was in essence Tim what i was asking in the first place! I want outdoor crops as early as possible - i dont have the greenhouse space to cosset otherwise hardy plants, just to be a couple of weeks ahead.
I shall get my onion sets and seed potatoes at the earliest conveinience. Many Thanks.
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I meant, of course, that I must try the indoor ones. Bags of room before the main crops go in. = Tim
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so in a nutshell - I can plant out carrots and onions now ... but should hold fire on my pots till most of the frost is over
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Oh. dear - I've b....d it up again??
1. 40F soil temp.
2. 'Plant out'? You mean sow carrots & plant sets?? Sets yes.
3. Pots - no - chit the earlies now, but if they make foliage before frosts are over, cover them! = Tim
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the guys on my allotments all have onions in now (LANCS) so they should really get going "dahn sarf"!! (Ive just started a new plot so will be starting with some pots in the greenhouse)
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thanks, i bought a set of onion yesterday that will go in this weekend, and a sprinkling of carrot seed next to em.
Bought some first earlies which I'll get chitting too - rough date for them to go in?
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Larry, I think first early spuds are supposed to go in around the end of march (happy to be corrected if I am wrong :)) unless they have some kind of extra protection. I am planning on getting a few in at the end of Feb under horticultural fleece to see how that goes though.
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oh dear.
what should I do with them in the meantime? If I chit em now won't they be about 10 inches tall by march?
should I stick em in garage and leave em and hope for best ... remember last year I started late and could barely get hold of any pots anywhere
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Larry,
Keep em as cool as possible and in plenty of light.
I don't know where you live but last year, in the South, there was some very mild weather at the beginning of Feb - I got my 1st earlies in then and they did very well
Phil
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I'm sure I read somewhere that if potatoes chit too early it's ok to rub the chits off and let them grow again?
Anyone confirm that? Or will I have to go back through my books again!!
TimJ
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Yes TimJ I read that too from a site posted by Doris Pinks it said you can rub them off up to five times with no ill effects :o ;D
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I'm afraid that there are "ill effects".
The sprouts do not regrow but new and less vigourous sprouting points produce sprouts - no doubt John has the proper terms for these. Also the tuber uses its stored energy to produce the sprouts, each time it produces one it shrinks a bit.
So each time you rub them off you reduce the growth potential of the seed tuber - far better to keep them at a temp around 4 degrees C and in good light
Phil
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- and it's also been shown that tubers with white light-starved shoots several inches long will still make out. So don't panic. = Tim
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Tim's right - as usual - the only problem is that the long shoots are very brittle and therefore care is needed when planting to prevent their being broken.
Laying them horizontally has been shown to produce good results in an HDRA members' trial
Phil
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Thanks very much Phil & Tim, beginning to realise that this vegetable rearing lark is actually quite technically demanding :o
I'll just have to buy more books and keep posting on here! :)
TimJ
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The onions you have seen already in the ground are possibly hardy onions that are planted early winter time to be harvest several weeks before main crop onions are ready. They do not store as well as main crop. Main crop onions I don't think should really go in until March time. Carrots, I tried sowing carrots in Feb last year under cloches, having warmed the soil for several weeks before....nothing.....did the same with peas.....nothing....will hold fire until mid march, altho do plan to start some peas in pots in the greenhouse to try and get a couple of weeks advance.
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chap I work with who comes from long line of lottie holders reckons you can plant broad beans now ... any agree/disagree with that.
I've bought the seeds already and am itching to get em in ... surely they will eventually need supporting, the instructions on the pack are scant to say the least
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My Aquadulce broadies were grown, um, November time I think and planted out a couple of weekends ago. I support mine with a cats cradle type affair, bamboos at each corner, a couple along the edges and then twine zigzagged around to hold them in place. They make pretty sturdy plants and some on my site don't bother to support them at all, others support each plant with it's own stick! My summer broadies will be sown about march time.
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TimJ,
I hope I didn't make it sound too daunting. It can't be too technically demanding - look at some of the gardeners on TV!!!!
There is no "right way" in gardening, there are many that work and one or two that will work best for you.
Never give up and try whatever you think sounds right to you.
If you have a number of ways of planting say spuds - try a few done each way - keep a diary and note the results
Next year do it the way that produced the best results
But, as Alan Bloom (now 98) said on ther radio this week - he's still learning!
Phil
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Now what about growing salads in the greenhouse border. How early can i start there, and what can i grow at this time of year. I have things like lettuce (loose leaf) rocket and lambs lettuce coming in a seed order soon, and will shortly be in a position to start using part of the greenhouse border.
Any ideas?. Thanks
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Richard,
your lettuce and lambs lettuce should be ok to go in straight away -at least mine are happy in there now. I think your pots could go in now -but would they be out before you wanted the border for other things? As soon as my order arrives I'm going to start the potatos in big pots, so they can be moved out as the weather improves.
A bit early now -but I grew a courgette or 2 in the greenhouse last year (Partenon -doesn't need pollinating - from the O.G.C.) this worked well and I'll do it again this year.
Jeremy
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o yes, courgettes...I remember now some peeps were picking courgettes from their greenhouses before I had even planted mine out on the plot! Will start a couple of seeds soon, just as an experiment you understand. ;D
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Richard my Lambs lettuce, Mizuna etc has been growing in my greenhouse beds over the winter, (albeit slowly!) they are just about ready to start picking! I always bung them in when the tommys come out.
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???
I get very confused about sowing, planting out and all these other gardening-y terms. Foolishly I thought you just bought seeds and stuck em in the ground outside roughlyl when they tell you to do so, unless the pack warns otherwise (in which case I don't buy em!)
i stuck a row of broad beans straight in the ground at the w/end - no good then eh?
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If the packet said plant now then you should be ok.
You need to temper the advice on the packet with a bit of common sense - if it sayd plant from Jan onwards but the ground is frozen solid or covering in snow or water - wait til it thaws, disappears or dries out as appropriate
Phil
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Get your seed potato's chitting away in egg boxes and then nip to the garden centre and buy the biggest cheapest plastic pots you can find. Mine are are about 18 inches across and the same deep.
(If you don't want to buy these you can use black bin liners just as well.)
Put some crocks or stones in the bottom of the pot and then half fill with any old compost you can lay your hands on adding a bit of well rotted manure as you go.
When the potato's have produced sprouts about an inch long pop them in the pot and cover with about an inch of compost.
As they grow continue to cover the leaves a couple of times with more compost until the pot is nearly full, this builds up the area where new spuds will grow.
Last year I put two seed spuds in each pot and it worked fine. As the new tubers swell try and make sure they all stay covered with soil or else they go green.
Water well, don't give them a chance to dry out.
Keep the pot in the greenhouse aslong as you can then move to a bright and sunny spot. If there is a frost forecast bring them inside or into a green house.
In a few weeks time you will be able to tip out masses of sweet, tasty new spuds about the size of pigeon eggs. Once you have tasted fresh home grown spuds you will never buy them again in the supermarket.
Each pot will yield about 5 to 7 pounds of spuds if you do well. The only problem is they don't keep for ages once dug.
jerry, thanks for the tip. am new to the gardening 'business' but will be taking over a 'lottie soon - thing is, soon can't come soon enough for me :D itchy fingers and all.
will pop down to the local garden centre for a pot and some compost.
where do you guys get your seed potatoes from (and how many are there in one order? 5, 50 or 500? :o )
ta
s.
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A number of broad bean varieties are suitable for sowing NOW and the same goes for peas. If it says so on the packet, fingers crossed, you should be fine. My autumn 2003 sown broad beans yielded a crop about 2-3 weeks before the spring sown (and at a time when they are horrendously expensive in the shops - £2? a pound/kilo) I didn't do anything to them, and they survived a bit of weevil notching the leaves, and there was no sign of blackfly.
The autumn 2004 lot seem a bit tall (well, more horizontal) but look ok (I think). Time will tell come May.
Svea - are you anywhere near Coventry or Hampshire? This weekend, there are potato days in Coventry (Saturday for members of the HDRA, and Sunday open to the general public) and in Hampshire (www.hhdra.org.uk) where you can buy single seed tubers at reasonable prices!
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Thats the trouble with the Right Month To Sow on packets, the weather is changing all the time and different from year to year.
Confusing but I think it is all about whether they are frost hardy or not. Trouble is with thigs in greenhouse to speed things up, there is sometimes not the light available.
I think I am finding out that artificial heat in the greenhouse(in the form of parafin) and propogater(elec) do well for some things but others things need extra artificial light too! :-\
"Oh look! they are coming up already"
few days later...
"Oh look they are dying already"! :-[ :-[ :-[
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multiveg,
unfortunately not.
am stuck pretty much in the centre of london and don't know of any 'potato days' around here - mind, i could ask the neighbours where they get their stuff from. probably mail order though :(
anything anyone could recommend in that direction?
sorry to digress
svea
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You've just missed one in Dulwich last weekend... There's one in Wantage next Tuesday apparently.
You might be on the late side for mail-order as they can sell out early. Some garden centres will stock small packets of seed spuds - just trying to think of where the garden centres are in London. Might be a long shot, but maybe Kew sells them.
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For location of Potato Days see www.hhdra.org.uk/potato.htm#days (http://www.hhdra.org.uk/potato.htm#days)
The next ones are Coventry and Hampshire (easy access from Whitchurch Railway station) this weekend
There will be a very good selection at Heathrow Garden Centre (same as at Hants P Day), West Drayton 020 8897 8893
If you can't get to any of those, see www.plant-seed-mailorder.org.uk (http://www.plant-seed-mailorder.org.uk/potato.html) and select potatoes for mail order.
Phil
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If You plant any seeds out into ground this month You will be very lucky if they germinate at all.
My spade was bouncing off soil on Sunday.The ground was frosted a good two inch deep.
Our supplier of seed potatoes wont even ship them till this cold snap is over .
Mid to late Feb is soon enough to be setting onion sets and shallots too .
I think we all look at bare lotty and want to see some stuff growing so we become impatient to set seeds etc .
I think, if You havent set before mid November as in over wintering jap onions ,broad beans,spring cabbage,peas and garlic etc Then leave setting anything outside into ground till at leastl Mid Feb...
Otherwise as with broad beans etc set them in boxes or pots in cold greenhouses or window sills ready to be transplanted out when soil warms up.
There seems to be quite a few new lotty owners coming on this site now. I would hate anyone to be dissapointed with their first years growing season ..
So lets give them them advice that will give them a fair chance of getting some fresh veg to harvest..
It may be just me but the threads on here where someone asks for straight forward advice seem to take a twist here and there and then get all confusing and technical .
The old hands who have had lotties for a few years know what works for most of us reliably year after year.This is the advice I think they are after... cheers Jim.
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Anyway - as I've said so often, what's the rush?
Things sown/planted weeks later always catch up (as you see when you try to 'sow in succession') - & are at less risk of failure or damage? = Tim
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As I tried to say in earlier message - you shouldn't dogmatically quote a date. "Don't plant before mid-Feb" is just as likely to be wrong as "sow at the end of Jan".
Last year there was, in my part of the world, a very warm fortnight at the beginning of Feb which was ideal for planting early spuds.
All we can say is that in "normal conditions then the dates for sown x is between a and b, if you want a harvest in z.
BUT then apply common sense, don't sow/plant when for instance the ground is frozen or, conversely, when it's scorchingly hot
That would be really helpful
Phil
PS Lettuce spinach and onions germinate at 0 degrees C
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A useful PS. = Tim
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it was pretty mild at the weekend and though not feb I decided to wack in a few lines of broad beans, onion sets, parsnips and peas ... hopefully not too early, but am chomping at the bit to get stuff up and running
anyone know if i can try beetrooot this time of year?