Allotments 4 All
Produce => Pests & Diseases => Topic started by: paranoid mandroid on January 03, 2005, 17:08:20
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today i decided to move my compost heap nearer the garden shed, polytunnel etc. i looked in this afternoon just before de-constructing it and to my horror there were a few rat droppings.
i took the rat droppings and the material they were sitting on and buried it all. there has never been rat droppings in/on it before because i check rigorously and there are no tracks anywhere within the heap or around it.
now a few questions;
1. i'm out in the coutry, i've heard that country rats aren't as disease ridden as their urban cousins - is this true?
2. i have moved the structure and have most of the compost moved. but is there any point in me keeping the compost that is left - is it safe to use?
3. what if they have urinated on it?
hopefully you can help me as i am in a mild state of panic.
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Don't know - but, every year, our heaps become the home of itinerant families, which just move on when they feel inclined!
Never occurred to me that they might do a mischief. = Tim
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I've never had rats so can't speak from experience but found this which was very informative, have a read
http://www.hdra.org.uk/factsheets/gg1.htm
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We too get uninvited rat visitors to various parts of the garden. They are not sewer rats as you find in the towns and cities, rather field rats looking for a place to spend the Winter. Even so they are not the nicest of animals, they do urinate every where, but then so do dogs and cats and ants. There is as much chance of picking up a disease from your compost from the rats as there is of picking one up from any of the other animals which have used it. ie very little. After all think where cow muck or horse muck or chicken pellets come from!
Oh dear that sounds very dismissive of your worries, it was not meant to be. Rats I am afraid are a fact of country living.
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We have rats move in and out of our compost heap, and mice, and hedgehogs, and they all pee and poo to their hearts content. I have never worried about the compost, and I have kids running around the garden. I do make sure I wear gloves and the kids don't handle the compost, and I use it towards the back of the beds and rake it about after rain, in the garden anyhow....on the allotment I throw it around with gay abandon. If they aren't in your compost heap, they are probably running around everywhere else anyhow, along with foxes, mice, birds, hedgehogs, voles, moles so on and so on...... :D
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I agree rats are a fact of life on allotment sites too - even tho we don't always see them. Every so often someone finds traces/sees a rat and we are visited by the vermin control man who very rigorously checks sightings and traces and he usually points out holes by which they can gain acess to sheds as well. He then leaves various "boxes" containing poison blocks which are designed so that birds, cats dogs etc don't come to harm. We are always surprised at the amount he catches!!
Agre with EJ about the compost/gloves and think it's important to wash your hands before eating etc if possible - we are lucky to have running water on site.
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O.K. if we are on the health issue, may I post this reminder: When was your last tetanus vaccination?
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I had one years ago, are you meant to get a booster and how often I wonder?
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Good for 15 years but if you get a serious wound, especially a puncture type wound, you may be wise to get a booster.
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Oh Ina you harbinger of doom......last year when we all chatted about tetnus I prmised I would go have a booster as it has been .....oh my..... nearly 20 years since I last had a jab...and when I asked at my doctors they said they wouldn't give me a booster unless I suffered an injury....so with my needle phobia, I smiled sweetly and left the surgery. Then in the summer when I started suffering from burns from the saps from the seeded parsnips, docks and nettles I asked again if I could have a tetnus jab (very brave for me to ask you understand) and I was told I could no longer have that done at the quacks and would have to telephone our local hossie and see if they would give me a booster! You know.........I might give them a call tomorrow to see what they say......
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after reading about it on here last year i went to the gp's-they gave me the shot with no qualms when i told them i gardened a lot.
however.............they don't give it singly any more, it is a combined vaccination now- tetanus and diptheria together!
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I wrote 15 years, some of you may say 10 years and it used to be 10 years here but now they say 15, so take your pick.
One thing I want to stress, vaccination is no guarantee! Wound hygiene is most important. Have an anti-septic at your lottie and don't ignore that little thorn puncture in your finger. Just because it doesn't bleed or hurt doesn't mean nasties didn't get in there. You don't need a manure fork going through your foot to be at risk to get tetanus, the slightest wound and the right conditions are just as risky.
Ha EJ, just as I was writing this I saw your post. Yes there is controversy about tetanus boosters and I'm no doctor but I'd rather minimize my chances. I don't really understand this booster stuff only after an injury. How often don't we get a scratch or little puncture on our hands while rooting around in the soill? Go for a booster everytime? I think not.
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after reading about it on here last year i went to the gp's-they gave me the shot with no qualms when i told them i gardened a lot.
however.............they don't give it singly any more, it is a combined vaccination now- tetanus and diptheria together!
Nonsense! If you want only tetanus, you should ask for it. I know for a fact you can get just tetanus and if they don't have it they can order it for you.
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Glad I read this as I think my tetanus jab was well over 10 years ago and I remember the nurse who applied it saying "you wont want tetanus as it is probably the most painful death" and went into detail of some of the symptoms that I will leave out of this thread.
But here's a link if interested...
http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/tetanus.html
Yours Doctor Gloom. :'(
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oh the joys of the NHS.
in one area you may be able to get X medication or treatment, but not in another. depending on your postcode. they may have ample stock of x vaccine from a certain supplier, and that is what you get. take it or leave it!
anyway it's 2 for the price of 1!
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It is the same in Belgian.
They have MIXED vaccinations for a couple of years.
If TETANUS is needed you have a choice from 3:
The most common combination in this case is TETANUS+DIFTERIE. Thats CORRECT.
(TEDIVAX pro adults) (GSK).
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Tetavax in Holland, just tetanus.
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;D You can get weills disease from rats. town or country doesn't matter but I don't think tetanus shots would cover it. OH had to carry a card when working for BT, they loved the cables apparently. Probably best to wear gloves if they are known to be about.
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There must be a score of diseases one could get from rats, especially when bitten but it seems also from breathing in their dried urine and faeces. Personally I don't really worry about this too much.
Sorry if I caused us to get off the original subject by mentioning tetanus, inadvertently suggesting that tetanus vaccinations would protect us from rodent borne diseases. This is of course not the case.
It was the talk about health and gardening that made me think of tetanus vaccinations, I probably should have started another thread.
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Sure there's no need to apologise, Ina. Simply did us a service to remind us of the dangers lying in wait while gardening and especially lottie working - what with breaking up/sawing and building with rough pallet wood, working with manure and chemicals (some people), sharp and/or pointy tools - then there are the bees/wasps and the rats!! then of course there's the dangers of back strain, pulled muscles, cuts etc etc etc....
We really shouldn't forget basic precautions such as gloves, washing hands and probably getting protection where possible - but we do forget don't we ?? Wowee talk about living life on the edge!!
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Rats and lotties mostly go together ...Compost heaps are a source of warmth..I presume You are digging the compost in.So I would not hesitate to use it ...
With recent postings I think I will turn my potting shed into a laboratory
and my Greenhouse into a medical centre...It makes me wonder how I have grown Veg for 40 years.
Seriously though we should wash our hands etc before eating our sarnies ...cheers ..Jim
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On the topic of Weil's disease - our allotment committee has been asked to do a risk assessment and the risks of Weils disease is one of the things they have to look into. Not sure what the risk actually is, except i think it is definitely carried by rats. What worries me is the fact of the risk assessment - what's it for? Are they going to say allotments are far too risky places and should be shut down because they don't adhere to European Legislation??
Sarah.
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Thought we were all working with nature! There are hazards out there, but most are man-made! Broken bottles are my highest risk of serious injury.
Just as weeds are plants in the wrong places, I look on pests as wildlife in the wrong places, so squirrels, foxes and rats use my garden because it is a more welcoming habitat than the sprawling city and the modern farmland. I enjoy their presence but take sensible precautions to safeguard my pets, my plants and myself!!
Nothing in life is without risk and as long as we are sensible as pointed out in previous posts, the positive benefits will greatly outweigh the perceived dangers.
Just get out there and enjoy the world!!
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I agree 100% with you.
As long as we are sensible, that's exactly what we are reminding each other of in this threat.
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if i get a scratch at all whilst out in the garden i wash my hands with dettol as soon as im finished in the garden or as soon as possible if im going to be more than a few hours. is dettol good enough to take care of things?
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I am begining to feel quite guilty now....I am the chickaleeta that insists the kids wash their hands when they have been playing in the garden, and yet I can normally be found on the allotment, one hand elbow deep in compost, horse poo and earth, and a nice chicken sanger in the other, with a mug of coffee on the path, with loads of little flies floating in the top! I am forever cutting my hands, getting splinters and blisters, and currently burns from the sap and stingers. Must get sorted before mu luck runs out....or could it be, after spending the last 34 years in the muck, I am immune??
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There is a Dutch saying: Onkruid vergaat niet.
Translation: Weeds don't perish.
(in Dutch it sounds even worse, the literal translation for weeds is bad herbs hahahaha)
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A wee bit hard, to call her ""onkruid"" >:( >:(
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Don't know about tetanus, but I do know that I have just had an encounter with the original subject matter. Went to do some work in the greenhouse and to my astonishment a rat calmly walked along the edge of the workshed, through the cat hole in the door and disappeared inside. I opened the door and there it was cheeky as they come just starting on a meal of Fatball (birdfood). It took absolutely no notice of me!. So, not being very keen on getting too close to rats I went into the house and carried our resident ratter out to the shed. In the mean time Ratty had had his main course and was tucking into an apple for desert. It then left the shed followed by cat and made its way very slowly across the garden. Here its progress was interrupted by three bantams who decided it was lunch on legs!. Cat walked away!. Spade descended and ratty was no more.
I presume it was sick anyway since it was very slow and rats normally do not hang around to be cat sniffed, henpecked or pancaked.
No need for anti-tetanus though!
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I know it's a serious subject but honestly, Eric, the picture you paint of that rat and it's demise - like something out of Tom and Jerry!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Had a chuckle about Tom & Jerry scenario and EJ`s description on the plot!
Mud coated hands rubbed on jeans to get the "worst" off and out with the sarnie. Flies in coffee, dip muddy finger(albeit freshly cleaned on jeans!)into coffee to remove flies, wipe coffee from finger by applying to jeans again and drink coffee, being careful about the layer of skin that has formed, with the skin swallowed you pull a face and say erghh thats better! :-X
And have you noticed your finger is cleaner now :-\
Bet the original flies were better for your..............
Then you stand up and stretch you knackered back, make another argghhhh noise and contemplate how healthy all this organic gardening is for you and then spark up a f*g and continue :-X
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Oh dear I think you've been spying on me Andy. :P That is exactly what I do when I'm out in the garden. :-[ :-[ :-[ Mind you I don't drop my f.g end in the garden I hygenically get rid of it in the bin!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
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Oh dear I think you've been spying on me Andy. :P That is exactly what I do when I'm out in the garden. :-[ :-[ :-[
Me too!!!!! Though I used to throw my f*g ends on the ground (roll ups are bio-degradible!) ... not any longer though, I gave up smoking just over a year ago! <<pats herself on back>> ;D
Had a rat in my compost heap a couple of weeks ago! :o I'd just added some stuff to my heap, I put an old bit of carpet back on top and then stomped up and down on it for a bit. I reached over to lower the lid and a huge rat leaped out, over my shoulder and disappeared into next doors garden. Frightened the life out of me! :o
Jak
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"SHUDDER" Jak!
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Argh! Jak!
Got me thinking.... I haven`t liked rats since I read the book 25 years ago. Can`t think of the author just now...?
Had visions of stomping on compo heap or pulling back the carpet and loads of giant rats jumping out and ripping out juggular etc etc. The Lair was another one...... cringe :'(
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James Herbert, Andy, I loved that book! We kept rats for a while, wonderful creatures, but the thought of a wild one running down my back from my compost sends me cold!
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Thats the one Doris, thanks.
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Da Nada!
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I love pet rats, my cousin used to keep them, but my OH hates Rattus Norvegicus (sp?) with a passion boarding on phobia and some of it has obviously rubbed off on me! ::) Every time I've opened the compost bin since I've had visions of the rat leaping out and going for my jugular! :o :o :o I think it's gone now, I kept ramming a garden fork into the compost and stomping up and down on it and took some of the slats off so the front was more open. I was hoping to persuade it that it wasn't such a 'Des-Res'. Touch wood - it seems to have worked. ;D Maybe the local cat population scared it off, although it was almost as big as my youngest cat and my other one is blind! Mind you there's a fine figure of a cat next door that wouldn't have had any bother dealing with it if he'd a mind too! ;)
Luckily I don't recall having read that particular James Herbert book! ;D
Jak
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There is another book about Rats, Rattus Rex by C.A.Mclaren and believe it or not it is a childrens book, rather scary though very well written.