Allotments 4 All
General => News => Topic started by: macmac on November 27, 2010, 23:20:58
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At present our site closes the gate during the day and locks it overnight.
It used to be open all day long but thanks to my mate on the committee, she pursued the problem and encouraged us all to "shut the gate" :)
My question is ...is your site locked all the time /open all the time/locked overnight ? and do all your plot holders comply?
Personally I find it frustrating when people don't close/lock the gate it's like walking out and leaving your front door open >:(
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we have to lock our gate at all times. But I went to the site on thursday and I am thinking there has been a problem with this as there are now emergency acess numbers up and one of our gates is cordoned off although locked and has a danger no acess sign.
Not sure if someone has had a problem on the site and emergency services have had acess difficulties.
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Our gate are locked all the time, and everybody complies.
When I first got my plot, the gate was often left unlocked, and as a result was often left unlocked overnight, as the last person out did not know they were the last person out (it's quite a big site).
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We had an open site with many problems until about a year ago, and now we have a fence and three locked gates, and although gates are left unlocked while people are on the site, the last one out always locks up, and I have never found the gates unlocked when I have arrived and no-one else is there. It works well so far.
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Both the sites I've been on have been locked... first one was always pretty good about it tho0ugh the size meant you had to be... the curren tone is tiny by comparison and it's perfectly possible to see the whole thing from the gate, I have found that some folks leave it unlocked whilst they're on site... generalkly the ones from the gate end, I'm donw the bottom (a good 45 metres from the gate) and always lock it, but as I said it's less of a big deal if you don't here.....
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Ours is kept locked, apart from on Sunday mornings so that people can visit.
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Ours is locked on entry and exit though some people hate locking the gate. Main offenders being pigeon plot holders. Since the gate was fitted 8 months ago we have had no fly tipping of break-ins. I am of the opinion the gate should be closed on entry not necessarily locked. If all plot holders lock it on exit as if they are the last out that would suffice.
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Our gate is left open while people are on site. Last out locks it. There was an incident this year of beans being stolen but our site has houses round it & it was one of them. They forgot one night & left the mat over the fence. Our daughters site is locked except when the lotty shop is open.
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On one of our sites the gatesshould be shut at all times but you always get one or two who think that it doesn't apply to them and these are the ones who have plots right up the other end of the site. Walsall rd are always closed except Sunday morning.
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Our site is locked at all times. New gates, you have to lock the lock to get the key out. The only problem we still have these days is from the houses round the site fly tipping over the fence. Waiting for the council solicitor to prosicute one household for depositing dog phoo. Lazy cow >:( >:(
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We have three gates that are always locked if there is no one on the site. But some plot holders have made there own access over the ditch and cut a hole through the fence/hedge.And then not bothered to put a gate in ???
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We have a "gates shut at all times and last one out locks up" policy but it's not enforced. The allotment WAGs haven't got keys so the gates need to be left unlocked for them >:(. And a few of the men are concerned they might have a heart attack on site and the ambulance won't be able to reach them. So the gate is often unlocked and sometimes wide open (we have vehicle access which is well used).
I would like to see Gates Locked at All Times - we do get people wandering in and then leaving with a carrier bag of rasberries. But it's not going to happen (see above).
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Crikey, we've got a unofficial right of way though the alloments, no locks on the 3 gates at all, people just wander though on the way to the shops.....amazingly we don't get weekly theft/vandalism :) although I wouldn't leave anything I didn't mind getting nicked down there.
At least 5 plotholders have unofficial gates from their gardens too, the only one the commitee are worried about is the one up the old railway embankment from the cycle path.
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We lock ours coming and going although some people are somewhat lax at times.
One problem is the number of keys in circulation as the same one can be used at all the sites in the borough, and it's also known that people have spares cut for use by others!
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On our site the gate must be locked at all times but there are a few who think sod it let the next to come in/out do it for me, we all so have a speed limit of 5 miles when driving round the site the same few drive round like it's Donington park,theres allway somebody to spoil it for others is there not. >:(
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On our site the gate must be locked at all times but there are a few who think sod it let the next to come in/out do it for me, we all so have a speed limit of 5 miles when driving round the site the same few drive round like it's Donington park,theres allway somebody to spoil it for others is there not. >:(
oh to be able to get a car on to site.
we have barely enough space on the paths to drive a wheel barrow one wheeeled. We cant get a double buggy up the paths thats for sure.
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On my alloment site its last one out locks the gate ,we have just had a very high metal fence put around the site, also a high strong gate. I do believe there have been some thefts off the plots.etc it only takes a minuit to lock the gate after you when you leave and. I think most people do lock up when they leave.
June.
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One problem is the number of keys in circulation as the same one can be used at all the sites in the borough, and it's also known that people have spares cut for use by others!
our association has this problem, we are getting new locks and keys next yr to help alleviate this problem.
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We have started to have this problem on our site this year because of the new lotty holders that have moved on, we have a sign on the gates which says 'Please close the gates on entry and leaving' but it seems to be to much trouble, so I can't wait for the vandalism or thieving to start and let's see what the responce will be, :)
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Thanks for all your contributions ,it's very interesting seeing how other sites do it
Re keys we used to charge £6 deposit but found for some that wasn't enough incentive to hand in their key if they left so sadly they've increased it to £25 .Watch this space ;)
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Id love to charge a deposit for keys,but not everyone can afford it,and my mate reckons it didnt make any difference on his site,nowt will get folk to return their keys. I post out an SAE when people leave our place,and only one has ever used it to return the key,so Ive stopped bothering even with that.
re the gate,we are soon to implement a locked at all times policy,at the mo its a lock it at 4.30 thing,which not everyone does >:(
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On one of the sites I used to use they had a good combination lock welded to a chain then permantly fixed to the gate post. After you had proved yourself, you were given the combination and the numbers where changed now and again. It worked well and a committee member who spent loads of time at the site anyway used to notify us of the changes and you let the plot holder either side of you know the new numbers. It worked well.
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On our site the gate must be locked at all times, however common sense is used.
If you hold a plot at the top end of the site away from the gate as I do and no one is around you lock the gate behind you.
However if there are any members around who have plots down by the gate it is shut too but left unlocked.
Also if you hear a car horn it is normally one of our members who is wheelchair bound needs the gate opening so he does not have to mess around getting in and out of his car and wheelchair to unlock the gate.
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Thanks for all your contributions ,it's very interesting seeing how other sites do it
Re keys we used to charge £6 deposit but found for some that wasn't enough incentive to hand in their key if they left so sadly they've increased it to £25 .Watch this space ;)
our association looked into the deposit scheme, it seems you have to put the deposit into a separate bank account, and pay any interest accrued to the person who gave you the deposit.
our association is supplying a key free of charge, when a document is signed stating that the key remains the property of the association, 1 key per tenant, and must be returned at end of tenancy.
the keys shouldn't be able to be cut by anyone else but the locksmith who provided them to the association. any 'lost' keys will be charged @ £25 each.
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And a few of the men are concerned they might have a heart attack on site and the ambulance won't be able to reach them.
have you insisted these same folk carry a mobile phone at all times when on the site? after all, how would the said ambulance know they were needed? ;)
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The policy on our site is that the gates (one each end of our site) should be kept locked at all times but we have some people who regularly leave them open/unlocked; we have notices on the gates to say keep them locked at all times. On occasions we need to leave them open (when school visits at taking place or visitors expected) and we have a notice we hang on the gate to say leave them open because of visitors.
We pay a deposit of £5 per key - and additional keys are available if required. We do, though get a problem that people giving up do not return their keys.
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On our site if you know of a regular offender who keeps leaving the gates open you have to tell a committee member, the trouble is theres to much in giving the benefit of the doubt with our committee,not so long a go a bloke was seen on another plot taking beans but because he denied it and it was his word against the other he was given the benefit of the doubt.
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Both gates kept permanently locked. All plot-holders have a key - £5, returnable on request when they leave.
Which means, in practice: no strangers - all plot-holders are very cute at picking this up and report it immediately - and very little thieving; but half the neighbourhood has a key which they haven't bothered to return as it costs so little.
But we also have a gate with keypad entry, giving access also to one of our smallholdings. The code has been given to the emergency services so that they have access. (We had a fire on site last year and nearly lost the gate when they needed access. Fortunately, one of our plot-holders lived opposite and let them in!)
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our gates must be locked by the last on site, we have combination locks, means less keys, we do have keys for the communal shed though :)
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Can I ask in this thread "what are the best type of locks to use"?
we have the discus type but are having a lot of problems with them. After a while the locks seize up-we use a specialist lock "lubricant" and have replaced them but the same happens again.
I want to look at another type of lock and have thought about key pads or combination locks. but the committee thought they would be too fiddly!! so I was asked to buy the same type again-with the same problems.
OH off to the locksmith again today, any advice or ideas welcome.
thanks Anne x
in reply to the thread -yes locked- with very good compliance.
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'FEDERAL' brand of padlock, (only the owner can get keys cut, so no mystery copies) and DO NOT EVER use any lubricant in a padlock. (is what our locksmith advises) ;)
our association is about to buy almost 900 new keys and 21 new padlocks, I have done plenty of research!!
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They use graphite on our padlock, it's the type Tony suggests :)
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We have three gates on our site (2 for vehicles), and recently a rule has been introduced that all must be closed and locked at all times (we are told this has something to do with public liability insurance?)
Slam-locks have been fitted to all the gates where you have to put a number into the gate to get in/out.
Alot of people have complianed as you need to park on the road, open the gate, drive in, close the gate, then drive to the carpark... just people being lazy in my opinion!
Alot of people preffer it however, as it is quite a large site and there used to be a problem with people walking in (teens etc) on an evening.... you wouldnt dare challenge them for fear of the damage they might do to your plot later! At least with the gates locked it feels safer!
Also the police / ambulance etc have been given the codes for the gates incase of emergency (as this was another reason people gave for not having the gates locked!)
We used to have padlocks and keys but they were more hassel... numerous times people actually got locked IN the allotments as they had forgot their key, at least with a number you can scribble it down in your wallet/mobile phone! ;D
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Oh how nice to know that same arquments, problems and solutions are going on over other allotments. We have this gate locking issue coming up every other year...and at the moment we are 'middle' of it again ::)
On our site the gate must be locked at all times, however common sense is used. That's our rule too..but over years we've come to conclusion that peoples common sense vary ::)..oh, yes...It is amazing how such a simple thing like locking or closing a gate can be and how much agression it can cause :-X
Well another committee meeting ahead..to return good spirit into a place ::)
I shall report to our committee that we are not the only ones with it ;D
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We were charged £6 for the key when we first got the plot. I make sure I have my mobile with me as there are some older people there with health problems.
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We have no vehicular access to site so we always have to walk. But since it is past a nature reserve with lake it is actually part of the pleasure. Carrying two bucket fulls of recycled compost almost every visit burns off a few extra calories.
It is possible ti get a little closer for a very short time for deliveries but it blocks a private drive so we try and keep it to a minimum.
I would love to be inside a securely locked perimeter fence when I am there on my own. Though I agree some kind of external access to a key for emergency services sounds like a necessity as well. Also if someone comes in using a key you know they are bono fide. If the gate is open how do you know who should be there. I certainly do not know all the plot holders and certainly do not know their friends and relations.
How often do people need to call an ambulance? I actually had a problem earlier in the year but managed to get back to my car before I collapsed. Has anyone been mugged on an allotment?
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^^ some of the guys ask if I want to be locked in when they leave and I am on my own.
But when you think of all the placed you could be mugged, the lottie is well down on the list.
I don't quite buy the argument that the gate needs to be left unlocked at all times in case some one is alone and calls an ambulance - do these people leave their front doors unlocked for the same reason? But I do see people doing things which in the workplace they would not be allowed to do alone. Some of the plot holders are 70+ years old and when you see them up a wonky old ladder hammering on new roofing on their sheds or pruning hedges, well that really does make me stick around and keep an eye open for them even if I want to go home.
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I have been in contact with our local ambulance service r.e. emergency access to allotment sites, after about 6 months I got a response!! they were glad someone had brought up the issue of locked gates, as it also happens on other locked areas ( yards, building sites, etc), and they (ambulance service) hadn't thought of access issues to these areas (good risk management by them), all of our local ambulances now carry bolt-croppers!!
rgds, Tony
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Our council charge a deposit for a key when you first get the plot, both our gates are to be kept locked but some can't be bothered when they are on site but are the first to complain when something goes missing. ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for reply Tony.
You must have a huge site if you need 21 locks and 900 keys, no wonder you did a lot of research.
The federal locks look good but we do not think they will fit on our gates.
There seems a varietly of views on what if any lubricant to use! :-\
We were sold a lock lubricant by the original locksmith in Sheffield,
the one OH went to in Chesterfield says use WD40 monthly.
Your locksmith says never lubricate
Federal say use a specialist liubricant (at least on the web page I viewed)
Anyway we are going to try using the lubricant from the same place we bought the locks and hope that works they have a 10 year guarantee. so will take them back if they don't.
I would appreciate knowing how you get on with the Federal locks, Crikey how much is that lot costing you!!! ::)
Thanks Anne
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Our site is large (140 ish plots) and 2 gates, and the rule is they are locked at all times, no exceptions! (Except the main gate is left open for 2 hours on a Saturday morning when the shop is open - the gate is in full view of the shop.) People do comply all the time as far as I know. If driving, they have to get out of the car, unlock, drive in, get out again and lock up and I've never heard anyone complaining about this. The site is in the middle of a housing estate and we have had various break-ins etc so I think people are happy to be as secure as possible.
The locks are huge padlocks (don't know what sort), welded to a thick chain which is welded to the gate. The keys are big chunky ones which can only be copied at the shop they were issued by. We pay £10 returnable deposit for them. There is a sort of metal casing over the padlock which stops it from getting wet (and also stops people from putting glue in it which is why it was installed).
For a large urban site with tall perimeter fencing I think the system works well. I always feel safe there even when I'm there in the evening when most people have left. However if it was a small rural site it might be overkill!
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Thanks for reply Tony.
You must have a huge site if you need 21 locks and 900 keys, no wonder you did a lot of research.
The federal locks look good but we do not think they will fit on our gates.
There seems a varietly of views on what if any lubricant to use! :-\
We were sold a lock lubricant by the original locksmith in Sheffield,
the one OH went to in Chesterfield says use WD40 monthly.
Your locksmith says never lubricate
Federal say use a specialist liubricant (at least on the web page I viewed)
Anyway we are going to try using the lubricant from the same place we bought the locks and hope that works they have a 10 year guarantee. so will take them back if they don't.
I would appreciate knowing how you get on with the Federal locks, Crikey how much is that lot costing you!!! ::)
Thanks Anne
we are purchasing the federal 250 brass lock (22 of) cost = £43.36 each, 831 keys @ £2 each(final number) plus 4 'master' keys (1 each for the 2 police stations that cover our sites) plus 1 for me, and a spare. (we got the keys @ £2 'cos we are buying them all at once, re-cuts will cost a lot more)
we've got 14 allotment sites to arrange security on.
latest from the locksmith r.e. lubrication is......................... once per year give a good blast with WD40, using the 'straw thingy'. blast it until liquid runs out of the lock. Never use 3 in 1 or other mineral oils on locks.
rgds, Tony
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Our gate was left unlocked under the old regime; we used to get prostitutes bringing clients on the site, and occasionally we had visits from thieves who brough a lorry down and broke into a string of sheds. That changed when they went, and it's now locked all the time. The whores now stop at the gate, which can be a bit unpleasant, so we've been trying to get a second gate installed at the top of the lane. It was all agreed, and the thing was put in over a year ago. Then the Tennis Club put in a new committee, who went back on the agreement, and refused to cooperate. So the gate's sitting unused, while the strumpets still come down. The new plan is to move the gate to below the Tennis Club, and leave the drabs to use their car park. They'll love that!
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Our gate was left unlocked under the old regime; we used to get prostitutes bringing clients on the site, and occasionally we had visits from thieves who brough a lorry down and broke into a string of sheds. That changed when they went, and it's now locked all the time. The whores now stop at the gate, which can be a bit unpleasant, so we've been trying to get a second gate installed at the top of the lane. It was all agreed, and the thing was put in over a year ago. Then the Tennis Club put in a new committee, who went back on the agreement, and refused to cooperate. So the gate's sitting unused, while the strumpets still come down. The new plan is to move the gate to below the Tennis Club, and leave the drabs to use their car park. They'll love that!
Good grief- I thought we had problems with a few bare bums having a pee near one of the the gates!!!
Tonybloke -please let us know how you get on with the federal locks, and thanks again for the information you have given
Anne
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Our gate was left unlocked under the old regime; we used to get prostitutes bringing clients on the site, and occasionally we had visits from thieves who brough a lorry down and broke into a string of sheds. That changed when they went, and it's now locked all the time. The whores now stop at the gate, which can be a bit unpleasant, so we've been trying to get a second gate installed at the top of the lane. It was all agreed, and the thing was put in over a year ago. Then the Tennis Club put in a new committee, who went back on the agreement, and refused to cooperate. So the gate's sitting unused, while the strumpets still come down. The new plan is to move the gate to below the Tennis Club, and leave the drabs to use their car park. They'll love that!
Robert, you seem to have an issue with the local 'ladies of negotiable affection'. perhaps you should also have an issue with their clients, who won't pay the price of a room for an hour? ;)
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[/Robert, you seem to have an issue with the local 'ladies of negotiable affection'. perhaps you should also have an issue with their clients, who won't pay the price of a room for an hour?quote]
thats 120 times ;)
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On a more serious note have you many female allotment holders? I would have thought the type of behavior you describe makes it somewhat intimidating for them. Do you have local policing and council initiatives to help? We have community forums where local people can go to discuss issues which affect them and the area, where the local police go. Maybe we are lucky in our area?
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Our gate was left unlocked under the old regime; we used to get prostitutes bringing clients on the site, and occasionally we had visits from thieves who brough a lorry down and broke into a string of sheds. That changed when they went, and it's now locked all the time. The whores now stop at the gate, which can be a bit unpleasant, so we've been trying to get a second gate installed at the top of the lane. It was all agreed, and the thing was put in over a year ago. Then the Tennis Club put in a new committee, who went back on the agreement, and refused to cooperate. So the gate's sitting unused, while the strumpets still come down. The new plan is to move the gate to below the Tennis Club, and leave the drabs to use their car park. They'll love that!
CCTV might move it on. Or at least: a few bigs signs about CCTV in operation.
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You do seem to have something of a problem Robert. I am surprised that the tennis club do not want to cooperate. May I suggest a camera. Neither party whats to appear on pics. I like the idea of some CCTV signs. How about 'please smile you are being flimed.'
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Sorry Robert, but I don't think it's appropriate to use those hateful words here.
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It is quite strange on our site because we have tall gates at the main entrance and the side entrances are low gates, which I sometimes lock, but if people forget their keys they jump over the low gates. I suppose it keeps cars/vans out of the main gate but not people if they wish to get in. As we are not allowed sheds, the only break-ins have been in the Council shed with lockers which is locked and the lock broken and thieves disappointed as only a few spades, forks etc. Because we overlook playing fields it would be very difficult to have security fences all round, but not too much to steal at present, apart from the Council compost coming on Wednesday.
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Because we overlook playing fields it would be very difficult to have security fences all round,
one of our sites boundaries onto a cemetery and the Yarmouth racecourse, no problem with putting up a 6ft fence along those boundaries!!
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Our site "contains" a cemetry... ie we go round three of their boundaries... nice quiet neighbours... no complaints.. :-X
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Our site "contains" a cemetry... ie we go round three of their boundaries... nice quiet neighbours... no complaints.. :-X
same on this site, Saddad, but it was the chosen route for burglars to access the allotments
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I have a massive problem with prostitutes' clients, but the English language doesn't have the same wonderful range of words for them, and if I'm referring to hookers several times in a post, why not use what's available?
You're right, Pumpkinlover, it is intimidating for the ladies, and it's unpleasant for the men as well; I've caught them at it three times now. Once it was right outside my plot, and as they were inside the gate and there was nobody else on the site I locked them in. The guy won't have got his car back till the next day, and I hope he had an irate wife to explain that to!
We've tried the CCTV option, as the school have it on the tennis courts a few yards away, but the cost of an extra camera was prohibitive. As for the Tennis Club, I believe its down to a power struggle; the new committee came in with the attitude that everything the old one did was wrong. All very childish, but not uncommon. Once the gate's finally moved, they'll be finding used condoms all over their car park, and they'll soon change their minds!
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I used to have a plot on Robert's Lottie and he is right,you used to have a lovely range of condoms to wade through while opening and closing the gates.Sounds like it is still going on. :(
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Blimey sex at the tennis club, we only play tennis, must be getting too old for all that, but we do shake hands after every game, and someone (hush) sings to me on court. Did think allotment sheds would be good for a bit of 'the other' but not allowed sheds and too old nowadays, a cup of tea is better, or a glass of wine. I suppose with all the security cameras not too many places to go for a quickie (Epping Forest was good, years ago).
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The only shag on my plot is the old shag pile I've laid down to cover the weeds, sorry if I've upset anyone, am I eck. :P ;D ;D ;D
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Excuse me, it may have been me. :) :) Now this is getting silly.
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You don't necessarily need the actual CCTV camera, just a few signs might help.
It sounds awful Robert. I used to love visiting Groby Pool in Leicestershire - it's a SSSI and great for bird life. But it is also advertised on the internet as a venue for the doggers and now largely a no go area for people outside their community. They've completely ruined it as any sort place you can take the family, though marked Police cars occasionally make appearances and a big sign in the carpark that "police regularly patrol, etc" has helped. I found your post factual rather than hateful.
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I agree, no probs here Robert, what I would do is get a few of the lads on site, pull up a few pews and take a few piccies, I don't think they'd come back. ;D ;D ;D
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When I started this thread I had no idea where it would lead....
;D
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what I would do is get a few of the lads on site, pull up a few pews and take a few piccies, I don't think they'd come back. ;D ;D ;D
:) :) :)