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General => The Shed => Topic started by: Melbourne12 on October 05, 2010, 11:31:32
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I'm sure that many of us were somewhat disturbed by the recent story about the widespread sale of halal meat by supermarkets, shops, and caterers. I want to be sure that "unhappy chicken" is labelled as such, whether that unhappiness is inflicted during its life or at its death.
The press articles covered many of the major supermarkets, but not Morrisons. I wrote to their customer relations department, and have just received this actually quite reassuring reply:
Good Morning,
Thank you for contacting us recently regarding our position on Halal meat.
Please accept my apologies for the length of time it has taken us to reply to your enquiry.
At Morrisons we only sell 100% British fresh beef, lamb and poultry. None of it is Halal. The vast majority of our fresh beef and lamb is processed at our own abattoirs in Britain . We adhere to high standards of animal welfare. All of the cattle, lamb and poultry are stunned prior to slaughter.
Our own label frozen beef and poultry is all UK slaughtered and is not Halal.
Our own label frozen lamb is currently sourced from New Zealand and is Halal, the animal is humanely stunned before slaughter and a prayer is read.
The limited range of Halal and kosher branded frozen food products that we sell are all clearly labelled as such.
With regard to prepared ready meals, the ingredients are from a variety of suppliers and many countries, which are often supplied by a third party. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that these products are not Halal.
We appreciate that some of our customers may be concerned however; they can be reassured that all of our fresh meat is not Halal.
Our customer’s comments and concerns are of great importance to us, and the interest in this subject has resulted in us reviewing our labelling policy.
Yours Sincerely
C Ruddick
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Customer Service s Department
WM Morrison Supermarkets PLC
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There is a Halal meat counter in my local Asda and it's very popular, with Asian and non-Asian customers buying from it. (I am vegetarian so will definitely not be going near it!)
The reply from Morrisons mentions that
Our own label frozen lamb is currently sourced from New Zealand and is Halal, the animal is humanely stunned before slaughter and a prayer is read.
I was under the impression that stunning was not used at Halal slaughtering, does anyone know if this is correct?
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In a strictly halal mode the animal would not be stunned (historically there was no method) but in some areas they are stunned and then "bled" and declared halal...
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I was under the impression that stunning was not used at Halal slaughtering, does anyone know if this is correct?
there was a bit on TV the other day (sorry, forgot what program it was) that suggested in many (most?) UK Halal slaughterhouses they did stun the animal first, just like non-Halal slaughterhouses. In this case the only difference between Halal and non-Halal is that the person doing the killing is a Muslim and says a prayer first.
Problem is, of course, you don't know whether the slaughterhouse that your meat comes from is one of the (few?) Halal slaughterhouses that don't stun 'cos there is no labelling to tell you.
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Be realistic - many animals are not treated humanely before being slaughtered, in Halal manner or not. Farm animals are routinely hit, kicked and kept in crushing environments prior to being killed. I am not a vegetarian but I don't kid myself that pigs, cows and especially poultry browse around green hills before being swiftly dispatched.
Being killed in a Halal manner is the least of their worries. having said that, I do believe that in most places now, the animal is stunned before Halal killing. It is not against Halal tradition to knock the animal out first, but it must be alive when slaughtered. that does not mean conscious. The Halal tradition also says that animals must not suffer, that slaughter must be quick and efficient and that the animal should face Mecca and thanks be given for this animal's sacrifice to give humans food to eat. Looked at it in that way, is it really inhumane?
Food for thought...
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A mate of mine brought his friend into our club once and he worked in a slaughterhouse and he told us they all get stunned but get stored separately into halal and non halal but they are all killed in the same way. ;D ;D ;D
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We used to take our pigs to a local slaughterhouse where all animals were stunned, as Si said the only difference was that prayers were said over the halal animals. In this country I think it's only when you get 'backyard' slaughter that there is no stunning, and we're not likely to have access to that meat anyway.
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I don't know where this story came from, and I mean no disrespect to you Melbourne12, but it has more than a whiff of anti-islamic propoganda. I don't think anyone can get too indignant about animal welfare unless they've spent some time in a slaughterhouse. Sheep, goats, and cows, and especially pigs, are sentient animals and they're crapping themselves well before they get stunned, completely aware of what's in store, Morisons or otherwise. I'm a vegetarian, obviously.
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I am just pig sick at everybody trying to accommodate muslims all the time. You don't hear all other faiths kicking up such a stink about stuff. Most integrate very well.
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The pigs next to my lottie are kept in very happy conditions. They have lots of vetetables! The hog and the breeding sows are very friendly and come up for a scatch or a tit bit every day. Though now that it has rained things are a bit soggy underfoot. The land where they have been grows the best brassicas ever.
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Compassion in world farming
http://www.ciwf.org.uk/
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...... but it must be alive when slaughtered.
I think that that is a fairly general requirement ;D
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I am just pig sick at everybody trying to accommodate muslims all the time. You don't hear all other faiths kicking up such a stink about stuff. Most integrate very well.
Apologies if you are just offering a satirical parody of a stereotypical Daily Wail reaction :), but eh?
1/ erm this thread is about a non-Muslims' concerns about Halal - can't see any Muslims kicking up a fuss here?
2/ supermarkets tend to buy from the most economical sources - in many cases these happen to be Halal slaughterhouses. Many (most?) supermarkets do not label the meat as Halal so you can't accuse them of pandering to the Muslim market. Rather they are pandering to the capitalist market - making the best profit that they can. I'm sure that if non-Halal slaughterhouses can offer a better deal the supermarkets will happily use them. So how is this a case of Muslims kicking up a stink? All they have done is see a business opportunity and successfully exploited it - surely that demonstrates excellent integration?
Let's face it, if you get run over tomorrow, are you going to blame the company that made the car, or the person driving it? Muslim slaughterhouses offer Halal meat to the supermarkets, with no pretence about how it was slaughtered. They do not force anyone to buy it, and there are non-Halal alternatives available. Simples.
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I think you'll find Orthodox Jews can be pretty "sniffy" about what meat they buy....
but vegetarians kick up the most about other people eating meat... which really is non of their business. Yes animals do have to be slaughtered to eat meat, and it should be done with the least distress and suffering possible to the animal, but it still dies... :-X
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Si D, it is a general rant because every other day there is something in some media to do with muslim faith raging because something is not to muslim liking. Different cultures settle in different countries. Not got an issue with people practicing their faiths but some people in some groups always expect the host nation should give in to their each and every whim. Nobody is forced to stay if they don't like western ways. You can please some people some of the time but you cant please all the people all of the time.
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Si D, it is a general rant because every other day there is something in some media to do with muslim faith raging because something is not to muslim liking.
well stop reading the bloody Sun and the Daily Wail !!
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I think you'll find Orthodox Jews can be pretty "sniffy" about what meat they buy....
but vegetarians kick up the most about other people eating meat... which really is non of their business. Yes animals do have to be slaughtered to eat meat, and it should be done with the least distress and suffering possible to the animal, but it still dies... :-X
Yes glad you mentioned the Jewish thing - kosher meat comes from the Bible and the Talmud predating the Moslem thing by quite a bit. I could be wrong but basically I think the process involved is much the same in both cases.
Neither Jews nor Moslems eat pigs either. Funny that! Tim Minchin has a song about it.
http://www.winningclips.com/video/T6qA-4PWdsg/tim-minchin-peace-anthem-for-palestine.html (http://www.winningclips.com/video/T6qA-4PWdsg/tim-minchin-peace-anthem-for-palestine.html)
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I remember the fuss when vegetarians found out that Polo mints had gelatine in them.............never tasted the same since
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If you want decent meat, you do not buy fom a suermarket. Supermarket meat is mass produced, despite the tractor logo you don't really know its coutry of origin.
When you look at the ready meals in supermarkets the majority are chicken based. The label doesn't state where that chicken came from. The most probable is Thaiand.
I do try very hard to buy British,
I buy from Farmers Markets and local butchers. We are very fortunate insofar as we have three relativley local butchers (one of which has its own slaughterhouse (not much halal there I bet).
I think the supermarkets do their best to confuse customers. Their intentions are duplicitous. They are in business to make the naximum profit, and to confuse the consumer.
valmarg
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I've kept quite on this but just have to put another point across.
Our daughter was affianced to a Muslim and we, being dutiful parents, bought Halal meat when they dined with us. I'd spoken to our own butcher a week or so before and he informed me that their local slaughter house had to be closed for one day a week so Halal meat could be prepared, which surprised me I'll have to say, but pointed me in the direction of the necessary butcher.
Anyway.................as far as I am aware the animal is faced to Mecca, stunned and the deed done with a prayer.
Has anyone here ever knowingly bought or eaten Halal meat?
We no longer have to buy it but can I say:
Every piece of fat and gristle is removed, you can have skin on or skin off. Having cooked meat for all my 33 years of married life this is the best tasting and healthiest meat I have ever bought and cooked. We could only buy chicken, lamb, mutton and cubed or minced beef as all the steaks go to restaurants! The chicken breasts are twice the size of any you will find, and it all costs the same as you would pay in the supermarkets.
I'll probably be sent to Coventry now but just had to say it.
Ninny
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You are lucky to be able to source mutton these days....our local Sainsburys used to do it in their 'basic' range mince, OH preferred that to any other! I don't understand why halal chicken breasts would be bigger though...if the only difference is in the slaughtering? I'm afraid price and quality decide where I buy our meat, since joining Costco's the family has been impressed so far with the overall quality of their meat and fish, so I buy in bulk and freeze the majority. I don't think OH would particularly care if it was halal or not as long as it tasted good...... ::)
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Si D, it is a general rant because every other day there is something in some media to do with muslim faith raging because something is not to muslim liking. Different cultures settle in different countries. Not got an issue with people practicing their faiths but some people in some groups always expect the host nation should give in to their each and every whim. Nobody is forced to stay if they don't like western ways. You can please some people some of the time but you cant please all the people all of the time.
Fair enough.
While I don't deny that there are people from any group that we'd care to mention that always want their own way, I do feel that much of this current social angst is more a combination of a media feeding frenzy and of liberal-extremism, than reality. For instance, round here we had all the agro over not being able to fly the Union Flag on council buildings and of Christmas being (allegedly) renamed 'Winterval'. The media used this to have a rant at the various ethnic minorities, especially Muslims, where as, in fact, they had had nothing to do with it and I never met one that had any trouble with people flying the flag or celebrating Christmas (indeed, I've met many more WASPs who go all bar-humbug, and get miserable when Christmas is mentioned ;) ).
Nope, if there is a rant to be had then I'd much rather have mine against the media that are only too keen to blow any slight hint of a story out of all proportion to sell a few more papers, never mind the damage that it does and the way that it creates barriers between different elements of the community that just want to get on with each other in peace.
However, I must admit, that I do wonder at 'multiculturalism' sometimes. I wonder if 'interculturalism' wouldn't be a better solution? Short term pain for long term gain?
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Nope, if there is a rant to be had then I'd much rather have mine against the media that are only too keen to blow any slight hint of a story out of all proportion to sell a few more papers, never mind the damage that it does and the way that it creates barriers between different elements of the community that just want to get on with each other in peace.
Hear Hear!! well put!
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Brits have a tendency to gather together when they move to foreign lands and re-create their homeland and customs there. I've seen it first hand in various African nations, Mongolia, Spain, America, India.
Not sure we should be throwing stones around our own glass houses. It's a human response not necessarily a cultural one
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Nope, if there is a rant to be had then I'd much rather have mine against the media that are only too keen to blow any slight hint of a story out of all proportion to sell a few more papers, never mind the damage that it does and the way that it creates barriers between different elements of the community that just want to get on with each other in peace.
Hear Hear!! well put!
Totally agree with both of you.
Our site, being in Birmingham, is very multicultural and I wouldn't want it any other way.