Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: EnglishRose on August 17, 2010, 10:48:19
-
I'm puzzled. I had to wait over 2 1/2 years to get an allotment plot and my local council has subsequently closed the waiting lists because they're so heavily oversubscribed. When I eventually got to the top of the list I was offered a choice of three different plots - all of which were completely overgrown - and I expected that the two that I 'rejected' (both of which are good plots) would be taken on immediately by other people on the waiting list.
However, since I took over my plot nearly a month ago, I've only seen three plot-holders at my allotment. The other two plots that I was offered are still lying unclaimed. The plots on either side of mine seem to be getting more and more overgrown by the day (although I'm told that they're 'under cultivation'. And there are quite a number of other plots which are defintely not being cultivated at the moment.
So where is everyone? Everything I read in the press suggests that allotmenteering is wildly popular and I had to wait patiently for a long time before I got my plot. But what I'm seeing with my own eyes suggests that people can't actually be bothered working the plots that they've got and also that people on the waiting lists don't seem to be keen to take on plots when they're on offer. Is this the same on allotments everywhere or is it peculiar to the site I'm on?
-
The height of summer is a difficult time to work over a new plot. The soil my be rock hard, and the weeds are still growing strongly....and you'll struggle to plant much now.
Maybe they're waiting til the autumn
our allotment is fully occupied, and it amazes me how rarely I see more than a couple of other people up there...........
-
Hi Englishrose, had a simular experience on our site, i took over my overgrown patch 3 years ago and there was also an empty plot , the council decided to split it in two due to over demand , they sat empty for two years, people were viewing them, accepting them, then not turning up to work on them, must have had second thoughts, only recently , a few weeks ago, have new tennants started working on them. Was told that there is a waiting list close to 500 !! as you said "Where is everybody" ???
-
The height of summer is a difficult time to work over a new plot. The soil my be rock hard, and the weeds are still growing strongly....and you'll struggle to plant much now.
Tell me about it ;D I've been battling with 5ft high grass and concrete-esque soil.
I wonder if the state of the plots is scaring off potential allotmenteers? I know I had to take a deep breath when I saw the state that my plot is in - but then I'd waited so long that I wasn't going to give up at the first hurdle.
-
My guess is that a lot of people on the lists are not realistic about gardening/allotmenteering.
We had a very reasonable plot - bit ramshakle but good soil, not too overgrown, nice size for a beginner (not too big but big enough)..
Three people turned it down saying it was "too much" for them to take on. It seems what they really wanted was a nice prepared bed ready to plant up.
I know not everyone is like this but I fear there are far too many people who signed up for sites without realising the amount of work it takes. Show them an overgrown plot at this time of year when they wont get much out of it and they run a mile..
-
I must agree about (some) people on waiting lists - they're not prepared for the long hard slog needed to get a plot up and running. (And I stress, only some: we've had plenty of newcomers to our site who have simply got stuck in and worked wonders!)
And I do wonder how serious (again, some) people are about being on the waiting list. Now I know that July & August are difficult, in that folk go on holiday, but we've got a small Starter Plot vacant and in the past few weeks I've contacted three of our waiting list who had specified that they had little gardening experience and a Starter Plot was just what they would be looking for. I haven't had a response of any kind from any of them!
-
I think that the thing that disappoints me the most is that there are no friendly grandfather types on my allotment who have been growing prizewinning marrows for 60 years and would only be too willing to offer a bit of advice to a complete newbie. I've got a lot of enthusiasm and am willing to work hard but to say that I'm clueless would be the understatement of the year ;) I have no idea what might grow well on our soil and what's not even worth trying, am perplexed by the thought of starting a compost heap and have probably pulled up all sorts of valuable (and rare) plants whilst trying to clear my plot! I'd love to chat to my fellow allotmenteers but if they're never there and I can't even take a sneaky peak over the fence at really well established plots to steal ideas (there don't seem to be any on our site!) then I fear I may be muddling about for quite some time. Then again, I suppose that's where A4A comes to the rescue.....
-
It is strange isn't it EnglishRose. I always find August the quietest month on the allotments, with so many people on holiday or with family and friends visiting. But it's also the month when so much is cropping!
And yes I think people's expectations are generally out of synch with what is actually needed.
Frustrating isn't it
1066 :)
-
Hello EnglishRose and welcome :)
I can't really say it's the same on our site because whatever time of day I go there are always other people about. We are a fairly large site so maybe that makes the difference. Do you know how many plots there are on your site?
We have a couple of overgrown plots but a very nice young man has taken one of these this morning. He isn't put off by the state of it and I'm sure he will do well.
In the past we have had a few people who have taken on a plot and then never been back! One person took it in October and when spring came and we hadn't seen much of her I phoned her and she told me that she would be on holiday in August and would do everything then! Another lady signed for her plot in October and the next time I saw her was in May, showing someone else 'her' plot which happened to be not hers, but someone else's. Didn't she wonder how she had managed to plant stuff without actually being there?!
Enjoy your plot!
-
in the past few weeks I've contacted three of our waiting list who had specified that they had little gardening experience and a Starter Plot was just what they would be looking for. I haven't had a response of any kind from any of them!
So what will you do Trevor? I'd be tempted to remove them from the waiting-list.
-
in the past few weeks I've contacted three of our waiting list who had specified that they had little gardening experience and a Starter Plot was just what they would be looking for. I haven't had a response of any kind from any of them!
So what will you do Trevor? I'd be tempted to remove them from the waiting-list.
Usually, in such cases, I write recorded delivery and ask them to get in touch by a certain date - usually two or three weeks later - and say that if I don't hear from them by then their name will be removed from the waiting list.
-
The ghost plot holders... ;D
You might remember there was a mix up in plot numbers, and I was working someone else's plot for 9 months. The fact they didn't realise tells you they didn't visit their plot!
That was at Christmas, and finally this Sunday, they showed up saying it was a suprise the weeds were so high !!! They must have had a plot for at least 18 months, and not grown one thing.
I didn't say anything discouraging and offered to help with some seeds for Autumn sowings. But I do wonder how someone with that approach will manage. I hope they prove us all wrong!
I suppose that's why some sites do help train/educate people about it. I had a gardening mum so I suppose I knew the basic facts about it. It would be good to reach people who didn't get that start, so they could enjoy what we all have.
-
We have quite a long waiting list and have a few neglected plots, but not that many. It is much better than it has been! We also have some 'ghost' allotmenteers, but impressively some with very neat plots. Not sure when they actually go down because I have been at all different times and not ever seen them! Must be missing them every time!
-
During the hot weather last month I started to go to the plot early evenings and met a whole heap of other people that I don't normally see, and when I bumbped into some of the more regular morning people they all asked where I'd been :)
but the neglected plots do make me sad
1066 :)
-
It must be very frustrating to wait years for an allotment and then find it has not been cultivated for years. I suppose people expect to take over a well cultivated plot and reap the rewards of someoneelses hard work.
There are some people I hardly ever see. I hardly ever go during the middle of the day at weekends, perhaps a quick early water and then home. I suppose there are lots of people who never see me.
I was very impressed with Squash64s site. But it must be very daunting to be a newcomer on a well established site amd wonder whether you can managed to be good enough. Only a handful of our plots would be good enough.
-
Even if you take on a well-maintained plot (which must be rare) you still have to work hard to keep it that way. I think some people genuinely don't understand that.
It's not unattainable - obv loads of us here work long hours or have disabilities or illnesses or other stuff and still have great allotments. So it's doable - but it's still hard work.
I would love to do some research into what factors affect success and satisfaction in allotment gardening, and what could help reduce neglected plots. But maybe someone's already done it!
-
I would love to do some research into what factors affect success and satisfaction in allotment gardening, and what could help reduce neglected plots. But maybe someone's already done it!
Sounds like perfect Thesis material to me!! And interetsing reading
1066 :)
-
Actually it is amazing just how quickly a plot goes downhill. I went away for 10 days in May and I am still pulling the weeds that popped up.
I would love to do some research into what factors affect success and satisfaction in allotment gardening, and what could help reduce neglected plots. But maybe someone's already done it!
Sounds like a good idea. I hope you will do it.
-
Do you think I should?
I had a look on the databases last night, and I didn't come up with much that people had done already.
I've been trying what sort of media research I should be doing in my new career as a media production lecturer, but I have to say, imagining researching allotments instead has made me feel much more excited!
It might not be media, but it is socially useful research, and could be part of the whole regeneration in Hastings thing.
Of course as allotments are my obsession just like you lot - I could really get into this! ;D (sorry to hijack your thread englishrose)
-
I came across this a while back Pigeonseed. I don't know if you've seen it.
http://www.kent.ac.uk/sac/department/research/environmental/homegardens.html
It's ethnobotany so not the same field as yours, but includes an ongoing study of allotments. I thought it looked interesting and it's managed to get funding.
-
So where is everyone? Everything I read in the press suggests that allotmenteering is wildly popular and I had to wait patiently for a long time before I got my plot. But what I'm seeing with my own eyes suggests that people can't actually be bothered working the plots that they've got and also that people on the waiting lists don't seem to be keen to take on plots when they're on offer. Is this the same on allotments everywhere or is it peculiar to the site I'm on?
I don't think it does to be overly bothered with what other people do on their allotments.
-
pigeonseed - go for it! But then I'm biased too :)
You could even make a start on our site ::)
1066 :)
-
englishrose,i do beg your pardon if im wrong,but you say youve been onsite less than a month? hardly enough time to get the feel of the place and have such high opinions i wouldnt have thought! they are prob on holidays!
-
Sounds an interesting study but the need to idenitify reasons for success or failure do not seem to come into it.
Perhaps you should contact uni of kent and tell them of your interest.
If there is more research on the subject of allotments they will be able to attract more funding. Apart from during the war they do not seem to figure in the national food plan.
There are different work patterns on allotments One on our site they paid someone to dig it over, sowed various and now are taking the crops, though they do water, I have never seen them pull up a weed. They are not there for long and if you blink you would miss them.
-
I came across this a while back Pigeonseed. I don't know if you've seen it.
http://www.kent.ac.uk/sac/department/research/environmental/homegardens.html
Thank you earlypea. I will have a look at that!
And I know some have felt that englishrose shouldn't be judgemental after only a month, but sometimes it's when you're new that you notice things others take for granted. Some plots have no veg at all, just brambles and dock. You don't have to be an expert to know no one is using them.
-
The idea of allotments are popular ER, but working them unfortunatly are not, and I would be concerned that the weeds are growing up around you from other plots, even though you'll only been there a month the weeds sound as if they've been growing a lot longer. :P ;D ;D ;D
-
Do you think I should?
I had a look on the databases last night, and I didn't come up with much that people had done already.
I've been trying what sort of media research I should be doing in my new career as a media production lecturer, but I have to say, imagining researching allotments instead has made me feel much more excited!
It might not be media, but it is socially useful research, and could be part of the whole regeneration in Hastings thing.
Of course as allotments are my obsession just like you lot - I could really get into this! ;D (sorry to hijack your thread englishrose)
I think it's a brilliant idea! It makes me so cross to see very badly overgrown plots / abandoned plots when there are so many people on waiting lists up and down the country; if we had a better understanding of how and why allotmenteers succeed or fail then perhaps there might not be so many plots going to waste. Go for it!
-
Personally, I don't find the question of factors contributing to a successful allotment very interesting and it might actually be quite oppressive if those factors were ever implemented.
Trouble is - the idea of 'success' seems to assume that there is only one kind of ideal allotment which we should all aspire to, whereas people have a lot of different goals or ideas and derive pleasure from their allotments in a variety of ways.
And I think 'pleasure' is an important aspect, we're not desperate peasants.
-
Our site is full with a waiting list, i guess we are lucky as we don't have many 'poor' plots, (51 total) I think new tenants don't realize how much hard work is involved, it also helps if your retired.
-
I agree with Pigeionseed about success. There are several allotment holders on our site who enjoy their allotments enormously and spend a reasonable amount of time and effort. They feel successful and are delighted with the results they are getting. There are others who produce comsiderably more crops. What actiually is success?
Perhaps people also need time. One of our plots has been completely transformed this year. I think that the crops of others spurred them on. We have no committee to come round and inspect and tut.
But I agree with the original poster, I have been to my lottie four times this week and seen no one else.
-
I wasn't thinking of trying to force standards on other people - just of knowing what you could put in place to increase newcomers' chances of success. There are already rules about what constitues success and if you dont have it you get evicted.
There are things I've heard sites doing like doing gardening lessons, small starter plots, encouraging a community like tee gee was doing. They could all possibly increase the chance of success, rather than just letting people sink or swim.
Of course some of us would rather just be left to get on with it ourselves - and we should be allowed that freedom. I'd hate gardening lessons or a starter plot!
I did go off the idea a bit at the weekend, I was chatting to the site secretary and he was more of a sink or swim man! He felt very strongly if you want to garden, you work out how to do it. He felt that you'll always have a number of people who rent the plot because it's cheap (and perhaps fashionable) but don't use it. He sort of has a point. But undermining it - he's started a scheme for newcomers to be offered a very small starter plot!
-
I wasn't thinking of trying to force standards on other people - just of knowing what you could put in place to increase newcomers' chances of success. There are already rules about what constitues success and if you dont have it you get evicted.
I'm glad to hear it. I'm very much into self-learning and would absolutely loathe to be told what to do. Although, like the original postee, I do wish my grandfather had been around to help me get started, but then not around later because he was very particular about double-digging and spacing and everything.....and wouldn't tolerate 'foreign muck' like French beans :D
Actually our allotment committee has a very open attitude to the rules; I was told I could grow flowers, keep bees, cultivate a wild patch - all sorts. Unfortunately a lot of plot-holders don't seem equally enlightened and spend half their time down there winging about other peoples' plots.
I was thinking the other day what if Carol Deppe of the book 'Breed your own vegetable varieties' fame, had an allotment. She admits she doesn't like tilling, nor weeding much, plants flowers between crops so that 'the bees can wipe their feet'. The complainers on my plot would be horrified to see her 'letting everything run to seed' and then planting bedfuls of dandelions would be the final frontier!
-
I think that the thing that disappoints me the most is that there are no friendly grandfather types on my allotment who have been growing prizewinning marrows for 60 years and would only be too willing to offer a bit of advice to a complete newbie. (quote by English Rose)
Over the the last few years since allotments became the "in thing" some sites have become more than just a place to go and get bit of peace and quiet and grow the family veg, which in our case is what we liked.(Tony being the grandfather of course.) ;D
I'm afraid that change doesn't always suit us old uns although we do carry a mobile phone around with us just for emergency that is;D
-
I do like to get a bit of peace and quiet - that's definitely important. I wouldn't like it if there were people on either side of my plot when I went, because our plots are only a strip 4m wide. Mind you no chance of that - It's been many years since they had veg on them!
Unfortunately a lot of plot-holders don't seem equally enlightened and spend half their time down there winging about other peoples' plots.
Aren't they a misery? I think you should get to follow your dream on your plot, and accept other people's dreams might look a bit different. The difference is a bonus to me. Allotments have character.
I think maybe you've misunderstood my intentions with the research, earlypea - I'm not trying to stop people gardening how they want - sort of the opposite really. We get so much enjoyment from our allotments, and it seems a shame if some people could have that too, but they get put off early on and give up.
-
First signs over the bank holiday of people returning!
We have quite a few young mums who we seldom see during the school holidays ... and of course many plot holders go away in July and August.
In general, we see more strangers (friend and family) picking crops than we do plot holders at this time.
-
I gave up half of my allotment around March/April time this year and I've seen the people who took it over twice since then! They are a young couple who said their parents were going to help them with it but they obviously all go at different times to me, although to be honest I don't think they go very often!
I like the peace and quiet, and wouldn't want people talking to me all the time, but it's nice to compare notes from time to time.
-
oh no, having to give up half of it must have been hard! :(
I'm nursing a secret ambition to ask for the 4 rod plot next to my 6 rod plot. I know it's about to become vacant. I meant to call the council today. I don't want to get my hopes up in case they say no.
How are you finding the smaller plot, caroline - is it sad or a relief to have less to worry about?
-
Apologies for disappearing for so long - I've been busy on the lottie, amongst other things ;D
To respond to those who think I'm being judgmental - yes, I freely admit I am. But please do stop and think just how frustrating it must be for someone to wait over two years to get an allotment plot only to discover that plots on the site have been left uncultivated for *years*. If the site was being managed a little more actively then I could have been quite happily digging my way to Australia quite some time ago! Added to that I know several local people who would be keen (and committed) lottie holders if they could actually get their hands on a plot, but they're stuck on an ever-lengthening waiting list. Hence my disappointment at never seeing at the lottie - it just seems wrong, somehow, when so many people are clamouring for plots.
-
Apologies for disappearing for so long - I've been busy on the lottie, amongst other things ;D
To respond to those who think I'm being judgmental - yes, I freely admit I am. But please do stop and think just how frustrating it must be for someone to wait over two years to get an allotment plot only to discover that plots on the site have been left uncultivated for *years*. If the site was being managed a little more actively then I could have been quite happily digging my way to Australia quite some time ago! Added to that I know several local people who would be keen (and committed) lottie holders if they could actually get their hands on a plot, but they're stuck on an ever-lengthening waiting list. Hence my disappointment at never seeing at the lottie - it just seems wrong, somehow, when so many people are clamouring for plots.
I think you should join your committee ASAP,or even better,take over as you obviously know all there is to running an allotment site and you can show the lazy so and sos that are doing it now a thing or two! ;D ;D
-
I think you should join your committee ASAP
We don't have a lottie committee, and I suspect that's half the problem :( The site's run by the local council and I imagine they're far too overstretched to take an active role in managing their lotties - especially when we pay so little for our plots! It's just so, so sad when people are missing out because others haven't got round to giving up plots they no longer want - I want everyone who really loves gardening to have the chance to get as much pleasure from allotmenteering as I'm getting. I wonder what the practicalities of setting up a committee might be? If we had a committee, we could do all sorts of fab things like arrange manure deliveries, bulk-buy discounts on seeds and regular skip collections as well as keeping more of an eye on plot cultivation.....my mind's running away with possibilities! Trouble is that I don't know if anyone else would actually be interested in that sort of arrangement - and I can't suss out what other plot holders think as I don't see people down the lottie ;D
-
Hi we waited 3 yrs for our allotment and now one of us goes daily to do bits and bobs...there are 2 empty plots either side of us and yet our committee put adverts up for them and no-one bothered..they rang people waiting and none of them wanted them either ???..granted they are overgrown but that shouldn't put you off if your serious about it...we have asked for one plot next to us as well..the main man on the committee said yes take it...so now we have 2..its hard work but the rewards are amazing..we haven't bought any veg so far this yr..or fruits..and i got lots in the freezer and jams and chutneys too :)..i think it depends on your determination to do it and do it right ..also we have been there or a yr and hardly know anyone at our site...one or 2 regulars thats it...we are there to grow food for our family not watch the comings and goings of others...
-
Be careful what you wish for.........believe me. Just get on with your plot and enjoy the peace and quiet and grow some lovely veg.
-
I think that the people should be shown an overgrown plot before they are accepted onto the waiting list in the frist place.
It is unlikely that any abandoned plot will not be overgrown it happens so quickly.
I helped someone get an allotment recently and when I asked how they were getting on they said it was too much work to dig it over. :o :o
-
I think you will find that most people have their own times of going up to their lotty, for myself normally I'm up there first thing Saturday and Sunday for about three hours and a day during the week, so I see certain people who I know and others I don't have a clue about and that's after three years, also I think you will find that at times it is better to be on your own you get more done rather than standing about camping, :)