Allotments 4 All
General => News => Topic started by: Unwashed on August 06, 2010, 20:46:35
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Squash just posted a link to the new scale of charges scheduled for Birmingham City Council's allotments over the next three years. See here: http://bdacallotments.webs.com/news.htm
Am I right in thinking that a 10 pole plot would be Standard, and that standard currently costs around £30?
I can see that it's a bit of a shock to know that rents will be more than doubling, but I have to applaud BCC for being upfront about it.
Simon Baddeley makes an intelligent support of the increase (http://bdacallotments.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3130259-rent-rises-on-allotments?page=last), and although I still believe strongly that allotments are a common good, I also agree that it's not healthy for allotmenteers to be so heavily subsidised, especially when non-allotmenteers are so often excluded from allotment sites by locked gates. As it is I don't see that BCC's rates are going stratospheric. At £75 for a standard plot in 2013 that's certainly up there, but hardly unaffordable, certainly not when pensioners get their half price.
But I don't entirely agree with Simon. Allotments aren't just a hobby, they are essentially where we grow veggies, and it's right and reasonable that you should be able to grow your veggies a lot cheaper than buying them in the super market, and that means allotments have to be pretty cheap.
I see self-management as the answer to both problems. How about you guys putting a bid together to manage all the sites.
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Less than £1.50 a week, I must see that amount in coppers lying on the streets where people cannot be bothered to pick their dropped change.
I can of beer, 5 cigarettes, a loaf of bread, a bag of peanuts and thats all it is, peanuts.
Stop moaning we have all been spoiled by low rents.
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You'd not get all that for £1.50 Ace, probably just the bread and peanuts.
I was wondering how much I'd be willing to pay for a plot and how much other's would too. I'd definitely pay £100 per plot now, that's for a full sized one. I don't have a plot to save me money on growing my own stuff but I'm sure I do save some, my main purpose for having a plot is pure pleasure, I love the hard work of it I love the challenge of it I love the fascination of what I can grow from a seed I love the creepy crawlies I even love the challenge of the weeds and all the different things it throws up every year. But I more than love the just sitting listening to the birds and looking at the sky and gazing into my pond and watching all the wildlife doing their own things all around me. A whole different world that we can sit and watch that's going on all around us.
I don't have any other outside hobby so no club costs sports costs special clothes for anything else I did, so £100 seems cheap to me for getting something out of a plot that to me money couldn't buy.
Of course I have enjoyed my cheap hobby but there comes a time when you have to be realistic and realise we are in the 21st century and things aint just what they used to be.
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As I had noted a lot of traffic from your website to mine yesterday, I decided to come and take a look and see what was happening. Now I know it is all about the rent increases for Birmingham Allotments.
In answer to your above point, may I note that Birmingham Council are not allowing any sites to go 'self-managed' anymore - there are currently about 15 sites who are self-managed. The outlook for self-managed sites at the moment is looking better with the rent increases. But with extra money comes extra responsibilities for these sites. I think it is also farily obvious as to why they do not want any more sites to go 'self-managed'.
I look forward to getting to know you all, this is a fabulous site!
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Hello Lisa, welcome to A4A.
Sorry, it's to completely obvious to me, can you spell out the implications for Birmingham's self-managed sites and why others are not allowed the opportunity to self-manage?
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The self management agreement is currently under review by the Allotments Working Party, but the word is that there will be no 'major' changes made. But, the city insist there is a need for greater accountability for self managed sites, eg at this present time, sites are allowed to retain 60% of collected rents, which is split into two chunks of 30%, with the first going to repairs and the second to 'benefit' the site. Self-managed sites have to produce accounts for the 'repairs' account to show the city how the money is being spent. They are now saying they want accounts for the second 30%. The concerns about this are, if city feel the money is not being spent 'correctly (in their opinion only) they could withdraw the 30% completely or ask for partial refunds. This would put pressure on what is essentially, a voluntarily run committee. At present the bulk of that 30% is currently taken up by site insurance as Self-Managed sites have to take out insurance, whereas non self managed site it is voluntary.
The council have blocked any more self managed sites purely because they want the profit for themselves to help boost the current shortfall in the repairs budget. At present, it is almost impossoble to get work done with the city only paying for emergency repairs. Here's hoping the rent increases will increase the repairs budget in the future, though we have not had any indication of this. Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currenty heavily subsidised by council tax payers.
Hope this helps
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Hello Lisa and welcome to A4A. I am sure that you will soon feel at home here. My hubbie Tony and myself have a plot at Court Lane Erdington. Because we are pensioners and are eligible for a reduction we don't have a problem with the rent increase. We get a lot of enjoyment and excercise, not forgetting the beautiful fresh produce from our allotment, so well worth the money.
We might think differently if we were youngerI suppose. The rent increase will probably affect multiplot holders more than the folks with one plot.
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Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currently heavily subsidised by council tax payers.
why don't the council pass on the cost of water to the tenants? then perhaps folk would use less drinking water for crops, and collect more rainwater for use on their plots ;)
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Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currently heavily subsidised by council tax payers.
why don't the council pass on the cost of water to the tenants? then perhaps folk would use less drinking water for crops, and collect more rainwater for use on their plots ;)
We encourage people to collect rainwater from their sheds and greenhouses but not everyone has one on their plot. I think that if the council charged tenants for water then many people would think "I'm paying for it, I'll use as much as I want" and the bills would go sky-high.
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The 4x water bills sound sky high already. If I was a Birmingham tax payer I would not be best pleased. Especially since you have not seen this years bill yet. :o
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It makes me think that something is wrong with our allotment site we are privately run and charge £17 a year we have a shop that is cheap, but that stops no moans, we have regular work partys (for the few), have gained a lot of grant funding, dug water wells, fenced the site, and proberly have the greatest amount of disgruntled and plot holders in the area the most of whome think the rent is too high, if we charged anything near the proposed Birmingham price we would have a mass uprising must be the water. take a look at our site link below I would apreciate your comments.
http://internationalallotments.co.uk/
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I am very interested in your slide show about wells. Can you start another thread?
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If i can help you in any way no problem you start it and I will take part
len
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Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currently heavily subsidised by council tax payers.
why don't the council pass on the cost of water to the tenants? then perhaps folk would use less drinking water for crops, and collect more rainwater for use on their plots ;)
We encourage people to collect rainwater from their sheds and greenhouses but not everyone has one on their plot. I think that if the council charged tenants for water then many people would think "I'm paying for it, I'll use as much as I want" and the bills would go sky-high.
yes, and they'd have to pay for more!!
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At last! A thread that is being sensible about the rising cost of rents, and plot owners realising the value of what they have got and not miserying about an increase in the rent and I think that would not buy a loaf of bread as well as a packet of peanuts, just the bread with a few coppers change!!!
Yes we allotmenteers are a lucky lot - we do have work on our hands but we also have the facility to really enjoy the outdoors (despite all weathers) and the best freshest produce that is possible. I am very happy to see people appreciating what we have rather than moaning about the odd £1 or so a week increase.
Old Bird
;D
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I'm probably one of the top ten rent payers on this forum and still think it is cheap, work it out weekly then think about what you can get for your money else where. ;D ;D ;D
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Maybe I should have kept stoom, I can feel a rent poll coming on. :-X
PS if Enfield council are are looking on, I think my rents far too high and any rise will be met with Borlotti and myself chaining ourselves to the civic centre, naked if the need arises. :o :o :o :P :P :P :-* :-* :-* ;D ;D ;D
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If they put the rents up I will have to start selling punnets of blackberries or making up packets of Rosemary, sage etc. ;D ;D ;D Actually it won't affect me too much cause I get a reduction cause I am retired (or retarded as OH says). Think my allotment has paid for itself this year in courgettes and beans. Seriously a small increase would be reasonable as we do get free wood chip and compost and water butts and the main paths are cut/mowed. A large increase and Kev and I will be chained outside the Civic Centre, but not naked.
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Go on then I'll keep my socks on. :P :P :P
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Party pooper ;D
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Sorry to be serious again, but it's an issue that is going to be affecting many of us some time or other and I think it's important. I want to make the case for cheap allotments.
I understand the drive to increase rents: Council's are embarrassed about the amount of tax-payers' money they spend on their allotment service, and rents of around £5 -£10 per pole make allotments ludicrously cheap if you're a middle-class hobbyist with two and a half poles - less than the price of the sunday newspaper, or a meal for two, and a tenth the cost of a cheap gym membership.
And all of that is completely true. But the essence of an allotment is that it's a space for the working family to grow their fruit and veg cheaper than going to Tesco, and it must be accessable to everyone whatever their means. Fruit and veg, well, veg at least is very cheap, probably too cheap actually, but that sets a cap on rent. The allotmenteer is investing their own time and buying seed, tools and sundries so there's only the tinyest margin to bring your produce home from the allotment cheaper than from the supermarket, and that means allotments really do need to be ridiculously cheap.
OK, one way around this is to offer discounts, but discounts are demeaning. Offering discounts to the unemployed and pensioners doesn't help those in most need - those in work on the minimum wage, and it makes the rents more expensive for the rest of us as we subsidise the not-so-needy - not every pensioner is exactly a pauper, and that's true for some unemployed too.
To some extent I still believe that allotments are a public good that is rightly subsidised by the tax-payer, but councils have also been allowed to become inefficient. For example the allotment service in Newbury is a £115k turnover business for the council, that's over £200 per plot, and it has absolutely no intention of spending any less. Whether it brings in the cash from rents of on the precept it's all the same to them so long as they have the pretext to spend all of that lovely money.
And the answer? We know that sites can be run both cheaply and well if the allotmenteers are prepared to self-manage. I'd happily charge someone £50 per pole if that was truely the cost of providing the service and that allotmenteer wasn't interested in signing up to a working party or doing a bit of admin, but for those of us who were willing to do our bit in whatever capacity our abilities allow, then I feel we should have the option of a cheap plot.
Don't get me wrong, the affluent middle classes are as welcome to allotments as any hoary-handed son of toil, but allotments must remain affordable to everyone, and if that includes everyone in their upkeep and administration then that has to be a good thing, right?
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I understand the drive to increase rents: Council's are embarrassed about the amount of tax-payers' money they spend on their allotment service, and rents of around £5 -£10 per pole make allotments ludicrously cheap if you're a middle-class hobbyist with two and a half poles - less than the price of the sunday newspaper, or a meal for two, and a tenth the cost of a cheap gym membership.
Why are they embarassed about subsidising allotments any more than subsidising libraries or swimming pools or leisure centres or any other non-essentail service.
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Oh my, i had heard rumors about the rents being increased but i had no idea that it would be put up by this much!!!
I know when you break it down £75 a year is a bargain for what we gain on the allotment but at the moment i just do not know where i would find £75 to pay my rent. I am a single mom of twins who is currently on benefits so money is tight at the best of times & i have to plan well in advance at the moment as to what i can save to pay my rent of £28.
The allotment (or our garden as the twins call it) isn't just about growing our own fruit & veg. As was stated earlier in the thread you can buy it so cheap these days. For us it is having an outdoor space as we live in a 6th floor flat. It is a place to play, teach, learn, relax & meet new friends. My children are fascinated with wildlife & are getting to see things that they wouldn't have been able to due to living in a flat. It would break my heart to have to give up the allotment due to rent increases. If this proposed increase is to go ahead then maybe they could set up a quarterly payment plan so it doesn't hit people in my position to hard.
This is very sad news :(
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If this proposed increase is to go ahead then maybe they could set up a quarterly payment plan so it doesn't hit people in my position to hard.
That is your right. S.10(2) Allotments Act 1950. Council's can't make you pay it all in one go and they should make quarterly the default option. If they don't offer a quarterly option just pay it quarterly anyway, and if the council kick off remind them of the above.
Why are they embarassed about subsidising allotments any more than subsidising libraries or swimming pools or leisure centres or any other non-essentail service.
In Newbury Town Council's case it's because the subsidy is enormous and unnecessary. £55k to administer the service and £38k of overheads which the tax-payer pays for. It's embarrassingly inefficient but it's doubly difficult to defend when the Council are being asked for self-management which would save it all.
More generally though it's a combination of the change in the nature of allotments and the extra pressure on spending. Allotments are not seen as a public good any more, and nor are they seen as a resource for the working family, the resurgence of interest in the movement is largely from the middle class hobbyist and that puts legitimate pressure on the service to be self-financing which wasn't there ten years ago.
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Some councils offer a reduction to those on benefits.
I understand that for many money is tight, but I am currently saving huge amounts on my food bill. I do not reckon to buy much in the way of fruit or veg for months now. Only purchases this week was a 28p aubergine and a 80p melon. Kast year my veg lasted me until well into January and this year it should be longer. Hopefully by Xmas I will have easily saved more than enough to pay for lottie and seeds etc.
We never eat out I just spend too much time moaning about the vegetables. ;D
No public ones here so a half size allotment £45.
Birmingham have already stated that their water bill is 4x the cost of the rent. There are a lot of people out there struggling to pay their council tax bills.
And yes I think people should be expected to pay a fee for each book borrowed.
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Birmingham have already stated that their water bill is 4x the cost of the rent. There are a lot of people out there struggling to pay their council tax bills.
How can that be right?
If a typical Bill is £30, then the cost of water is £120.
That's over 32p per day.
Can't find the price of water in Birmingham, but lets says it's 50% more expensive than here.
By my guesstimate it would mean every plot holder is using 200L, that is a full water butt, every day, 365 days a year.
OK, have not taken the standing charge into account, but how much difference would that make?
To say the water bill is 4x the collected rent seems ludicrous!! What am I missing?
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Birmingham have already stated that their water bill is 4x the cost of the rent.
See, I don't quite understand that. It's difficult to put a pole rate on BCC's allotments because their plots are priced small, medium, large, etc which come in a range of sizes, but on average I think it works out something like £3.00 per pole, so even allowing for half the tenants being pensioners with a discount that still means they're pulling in rent at over £2.00 per pole, and given that they have a hosepipe ban I don't understand how they can possibly be using water across all 120 sites at £8.00 per pole when typical use is more like£1.00 per pole. Can anyone shed any more light on this?
Ed: sorry Chrispy, didn't see your post. Exactly what I'm wondering.
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This whole thing does seem odd because presume it is based on last year. Apart from a few weeks in May and June when it was hot and a little for seedlings I did not use any water at all.
Their bill this year will be enormous!!!!
I wonder whether they are charged the sewage charge since the water does not go back into the drain. If there anyone here from Birmingham how much do you pay for your water?
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Growing4twins I am sure that there will be some way that they will allow you to pay in instalments and maybe if you are on benefits you may have a discounted bill as well. It sounds like you three really need your outside space!!
I can see how £75 per year would look insurmountable but take it a chunk at a time and it really isn't that bad!. You may be able to give/sell some of your surplus produce to relatives/friends/neighbours and that should cover the increase quite easily!
Best of luck anyway - but I shouldn't worry about it because it may not happen for a while!
Old Bird
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Our South Staffs water bill was £142-26 for water and £173-67 for used and surface water. This was for last year up to March 2010.
BTW..... Thankyou for sharing you wealth of information with us Unwashed.
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Our water bill for 2009 was £447. (Metered, not estimated - for about 85 plots of varying sizes.)
This year's is bound to be higher! We've just paid the bill (estimated) for the first half-year, but as I'm not Treasurer I don't have the amount to hand. (They will then come and give us an accurate reading in October, when we turn the water off for the winter.)
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If this proposed increase is to go ahead then maybe they could set up a quarterly payment plan so it doesn't hit people in my position to hard.
That is your right. S.10(2) Allotments Act 1950. Council's can't make you pay it all in one go and they should make quarterly the default option. If they don't offer a quarterly option just pay it quarterly anyway, and if the council kick off remind them of the above.
Why are they embarassed about subsidising allotments any more than subsidising libraries or swimming pools or leisure centres or any other non-essentail service.
Ooo thanks for pointing that out to me unwashed. That would come in very handy. Many a times ive had a spare £10 & i wished it could be used to pay for the rent but then sumthing else always crops up!!
Our water bill for 2009 was £447. (Metered, not estimated - for about 85 plots of varying sizes.)
This year's is bound to be higher! We've just paid the bill (estimated) for the first half-year, but as I'm not Treasurer I don't have the amount to hand. (They will then come and give us an accurate reading in October, when we turn the water off for the winter.)
Maybe this could be the solution to the water? Maybe all allotments should be on a water metre so they know just how much the water is costing them??
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Maybe this could be the solution to the water? Maybe all allotments should be on a water metre so they know just how much the water is costing them??
I've just had some very disturbing news from our Allotments Dept at the council. The water bill for our site alone is for £717.93 and shows consumption of 447 cu m. This is for just 4 months April to July.
We have about 110 plotholders on our site with about 55 of them over the age of 60 and paying half of the £28 per year rent.
Our site is metered as a whole, not on each individual plot.
We have put up notices by every standpipe telling people to only use the hose for filling water butts and not to water their plots with it.
I have sent emails to about 60 people and printed and laminated the email for those not on the internet.
This week I gave a plotholder the official letter about water usage after he was seen watering his greenhouse with a hose.
It is impossible for any plotholder to be unaware of the restrictions.....
Some plotholders are obviously coming very early morning or late night and watering directly with hoses.
I just don't know what we can do to make people understand that there isn't a bottomless pit of money to pay the bills with.....
Maybe if/when BCC cuts the water off people will get the message.
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Double that for the full year, that's £13 per plot, which is what I pay for my 10 rod plots water.
I pay a total of £36 all in, so a bit more, pensioners also get 50% off, but here is the difference, pensioners only get 50% off the plot, they don't get any discount on the water, or any second plot.
We are allowed hoses, nobody sees that as a problem here.
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Double that for the full year, that's £13 per plot, which is what I pay for my 10 rod plots water.
I'm hopeless at maths, but the figure of £717.93 is for only 4 months. Would it be £2153 for a full year? Does that work out at almost £20 per plot?
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Double that for the full year, that's £13 per plot, which is what I pay for my 10 rod plots water.
I'm hopeless at maths, but the figure of £717.93 is for only 4 months. Would it be £2153 for a full year? Does that work out at almost £20 per plot?
Our water is switched off for nearly 4 months in the year, so only counting 8 months, assumed you did the same, although there would still be a standing charge during that time that would add a bit.
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Does that work out at almost £20 per plot?
Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currenty heavily subsidised by council tax payers.
Even at £20 per plot which is very high it is not the 4X higher which Lisa stated in an earlier post. Can someone ask her to check out her post?
Sounds as if you need a timer to switch it off at night.
Sounds as if you need a well is that a possibility?
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Betty, £717 for 447 m3 seems expensive at £1.6/m3. Like Digeroo says, I wonder if you're paying sewerage in that charge, or maybe that really is the non-domestic rate water companies charge for water. At that price it certainly makes investigating a well an idea. But I'd query that water rate.
But working out the consumption - are those 10 pole plots for £28 betty? If they are then going with a typical useage of 1m3 per pole I'd expect the site to use 1100 m3 in the year, and April to July would probably account for two thirds of that use, so that would be 733 m3, so actually your site doesn't appear to be using water at all excessively by those figures.
But like Digeroo says, can you confirm with Lisa what she says about the water bill being 4x the rental revenue, because I reckon your site generates £2300 revenue, and no way is its water bill going to be £9200 for the year, £1075 more like.
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Betty, Severn Trent tell me that the water rate is £1.36 per m3 and the standing charge (for a 2" supply) is £93, and if they're also charging you for sewerage that's another £0.86 per m3 with another smaller standing charge, though as you use most of the water on the allotments you'll qualify for partial return discount on that.
So it looks like your paying 4 months standing charge and water at £1.5 per m3. On that basis I'd budget for £1800 for the annual water bill (though it looks like your sites uses less than that), and that's a large fraction of your rental revenue, but nothing like 4x.
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Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to work out these figures Simon - you actually sound as though you enjoy it!
I've looked at how many plots of varying sizes we have, and how much people are paying. (over 60s pay half price) Here goes:-
We have 4 plots (quarter size) of up to 100 sq.yds @ £12 each £ 48
21 (half size) 101 - 200 sq.yds @ £22 each £462
11 " " @ £11 each £121
31 (full size) 201 - 400 sq.yds @ £28 each £868
49 " " @ £14 each £686
making a total revenue of £2185 (if I've done my sums right!)
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But like Digeroo says, can you confirm with Lisa what she says about the water bill being 4x the rental revenue, because I reckon your site generates £2300 revenue, and no way is its water bill going to be £9200 for the year, £1075 more like.
This what Lisa said
Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currenty heavily subsidised by council tax payers.
so she wasnt talking about this one site. If there are a lot os plots in Birmingahm with low rents and lots of discounts its possible overall that water charges exceed net rent income.
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Thanks Betty, I do enjoy it actually.
From your breakdown then I guestimate you have 967 poles total and I'd budget for an annual water bill of £1500 which allows useage at 1m3 per pole and costs £1.55 per pole, though it looks like your bill for the year might well come in under that, and contrast that with your effective pole rate of £2.26 per pole and you see the water bill takes two thirds of the revenue.
But like Digeroo says, can you confirm with Lisa what she says about the water bill being 4x the rental revenue, because I reckon your site generates £2300 revenue, and no way is its water bill going to be £9200 for the year, £1075 more like.
This what Lisa said
Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currenty heavily subsidised by council tax payers.
so she wasnt talking about this one site. If there are a lot os plots in Birmingahm with low rents and lots of discounts its possible overall that water charges exceed net rent income.
I don't see that Betty's site is going to be so very different because 50% retired seems pretty average, and from analysis of sites without hosepipe bans water use at 1m3 per pole seems pretty typical so I don't see that there's a mechanism for water rates being anything like 4x revenue, not once it's averaged out over 120 sites, unless there are sites with a significant leak, and in that eventuality I wouldn't expect that to factor into a substantial rent increase, rather I'd expect someone from the council to spot the anomaly and fix the leak. There's enough here to convince me that someone has to look carefully at what's being spent where because it's not impossible that someone's made a bit of a mistake.
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We have 825 poles - well, perhaps a bit more as we have starter plots not in the calculation - so at £447 a year that gives about 50p per pole per annum. (I think I've worked that out correctly?)
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The price looks very unfair to me....
Only £6 difference between a half and a full plot.
A pensioner on a full plot is only paying £2 more than those on a quarter plot.
Taking the cost of water into account, those on a quarter plot seem to be paying a fair rent, while at the other end, a pensioner on a full plot is in effect, paying nothing.
The new rates seem to do little, if anything at all to improve this.
If BCC want to give 50% discount to pensioners, then fine, it is their allotments and we have the same here, but why should they get 50% off the water bill?
The water companies are not giving a discount, so this means all the other plot holders are paying for other peoples water.
I don't think it is a rent rise that is needed, more of a rent restructure.
As to saving water, have you considered printing and sticking up posters of water saving tips.
It would cost very little and even if the tips do not save much water directly it would help put a more positive angle on the need to save water.
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The price looks very unfair to me....
Only £6 difference between a half and a full plot.
A pensioner on a full plot is only paying £2 more than those on a quarter plot.
Taking the cost of water into account, those on a quarter plot seem to be paying a fair rent, while at the other end, a pensioner on a full plot is in effect, paying nothing.
The new rates seem to do little, if anything at all to improve this.
If BCC want to give 50% discount to pensioners, then fine, it is their allotments and we have the same here, but why should they get 50% off the water bill?
The water companies are not giving a discount, so this means all the other plot holders are paying for other peoples water.
I don't think it is a rent rise that is needed, more of a rent restructure.
As to saving water, have you considered printing and sticking up posters of water saving tips.
It would cost very little and even if the tips do not save much water directly it would help put a more positive angle on the need to save water.
I've never looked at it like that before, but I agree that the difference in price between different size plots does seem wrong. To my knowledge none of our tenants have ever questioned it though. When people enquire about a plot with us and I tell them the cost of a full plot, some of them have thought it was £28 a month and been pleasantly surprised that it was for a year.
It's a good idea about printing water saving tips. What we have at the moment is a copy of the water usage rules at each standpipe but as you say, tips would give a more positive angle, thanks. :)
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We have got a notice on our gate that tells us that we can have 1000 litre butts and we can also fit a hose onto the tap and drip feed.I will get you a copy of this today when we go to the plot.
We think this is stupidity cos if we were to stay there all day we could just move the hose around whilst we were working and I'm quite sure that we would empty the butt by the end of the day.This is not saving water in my opinion.
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The problem seems to me to be the standpipes. If you've got a standpipe, you can attach a hose to it. So - if hoses are banned - why are there still standpipes? We have water tanks, operated by a ball valve. You can't attach a hosepipe to that.
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interesting reading! One thing I would check would be for leaks. If your water bills are high because consumption is high, then I'd do a check for water leaks. I know our site did and fixed a few problems, and the bills are back down
1066
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We have got a notice on our gate that tells us that we can have 1000 litre butts and we can also fit a hose onto the tap and drip feed.I will get you a copy of this today when we go to the plot.
We think this is stupidity cos if we were to stay there all day we could just move the hose around whilst we were working and I'm quite sure that we would empty the butt by the end of the day.This is not saving water in my opinion.
I don't think this is allowed Shirl. Using a drip hose is the same as watering with a hose, only slower. I think maybe your committee need to check this out with the Allotments Dept. - they might have a bit of a shock!
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The problem seems to me to be the standpipes. If you've got a standpipe, you can attach a hose to it. So - if hoses are banned - why are there still standpipes? We have water tanks, operated by a ball valve. You can't attach a hosepipe to that.
It isn't that hoses are banned Trevor, it's that using a hose to directly water your plot is banned.
Almost every plot has water butts, many of them next to sheds or greenhouses collecting rainwater, but they often need topping up in dry spells. And of course, not everyone has a shed or greenhouse on their plot.
We are allowed to use the hose to fill the water butts, or a watering can, but not for anything else.
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interesting reading! One thing I would check would be for leaks. If your water bills are high because consumption is high, then I'd do a check for water leaks. I know our site did and fixed a few problems, and the bills are back down
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That is something we must do, thanks.
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Betty, if every plot has a water butt, why aren't they plumbed in to the mains? Then no-one would need a hose to fill their butt, so therefore no-one could use their hose for anything illegal....
Everyone on our site checks for leaks constantly and reports any problem, which is dealt with immediately. And when we fitted a timer to turn the water off every night, our bill went down considerably.
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Betty, if every plot has a water butt, why aren't they plumbed in to the mains? Then no-one would need a hose to fill their butt, so therefore no-one could use their hose for anything illegal....
Everyone on our site checks for leaks constantly and reports any problem, which is dealt with immediately. And when we fitted a timer to turn the water off every night, our bill went down considerably.
I think there is an answer to the question of plumbing-in water butts but my brain can't function well enough to see it at the moment! It does sort of make sense but apart from the cost, there must be a reason why it wouldn't work.
We really must do the checking for leaks and also get the plotholders involved in looking out for them too. Thanks for that suggestion. I've never thought of fitting a timer, thanks for that too!
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Re@ x4 for the water bill, this is the figure that has been bandied around at our BDAC meetings, I will ask my other half (who keeps the minutes) to look through and see what the actual quoted figure is and get back to you but I seem to recall a figure in excess of £300k.
With regard to paying rent quarterly, this option has been discussed at BDAC meetings and used as a bargaining tool with the council. We know, as well as they do, that rent could be paid quarterly, or even monthly. They don't want to do this, simply because they do not have the man-power to cope with it. Currently, the Allotment Section consists of one manager, 2 officers and one liasion officer. Having said that, we have said that if this makes an allotment more affordable, wouldn't this be the better option? Apart from lack of council staff (which is not our main concern), we have to take into consideration the committees on the allotment sites. any secretary, treasurer etc will tell you how difficult rent period is, imagine doing it 4 times a year??? And for that reason, we vetoed the idea. So, why not pay direct debit directly to the council? Again, this would affect associations as they would lose their 9% commission from the rent.
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With reference to using drip hoses off water butts, I think the council would not allow that but, you can use a hosepipe off a water butt!!
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With reference to using drip hoses off water butts, I think the council would not allow that but, you can use a hosepipe off a water butt!!
But not while you are filling the butt at the same time! :o
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oh no!! ;D
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Apart from lack of council staff (which is not our main concern), we have to take into consideration the committees on the allotment sites. any secretary, treasurer etc will tell you how difficult rent period is, imagine doing it 4 times a year??? And for that reason, we vetoed the idea.
The tenant has a statutory right to pay quartetly, you can't contract out of the right. I can understand how quarterly payment can be less convenient for association and council, but it can make all the difference to allotmenteers on limited means.
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when I was secretary of my old site, I offered a payment plan to the plot holders (we had quite a few who were unemployed), so that they could pay a bit every so often, and by rent time they could have their rent already paid (or the bulk of it), but no one took it on. I reckon they would now though.
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(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s121/shirlton/CCF12082010_00000.jpg)
I have borrowed this to scan for you. To my mind this is not conserving water.If the butt was totally filled with rain water it would be a different matter, but the lack of rainfall this year would make that impossible. Like I said you could leave it running all day. I prefer to use a dipping butt. Far quicker and I can look at the plants while I'm watering
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I agree with you Shirl. Some people might read that and think it's ok to be filling/emptying at the same time.
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when I was secretary of my old site, I offered a payment plan to the plot holders (we had quite a few who were unemployed), so that they could pay a bit every so often, and by rent time they could have their rent already paid (or the bulk of it), but no one took it on. I reckon they would now though.
I would love some sort of payment plan like that on our site. The only problem is our secretary is so unapproachable @ the best of times. Due to this a lot of plot holders have chosen to pay directly to the council, which is sad as the site itself looses money as you have already stated. So i think if we asked for something like this her head would explode!!
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I am not far from you and there are no such problems on our site. Interesting how different things are on different sites.
By the way I take my hat off to you, twins, allottment and daily living needs.
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Thx tomatoada, the allotment is a slow process but there is no point breaking my back over it otherwise i wouldnt enjoy it. Where abouts in birmingham are you?
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I suppose that receiving payments multiplies the work x4. But also the hassle x4.
Is it not possible to pay yourself a couple of pounds a week to pay for the veg from your allotment and so build up a little pot of money so you have enough for the rent?
It seems odd to me that people of 60 are getting a reduced fee even if they do not need the discount and that families who are struggling do not get a concession.
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I am speaking as a fellow plot holder when I say that it is a common occurance that when a plot holder reaches 60, they take on another plot. This is partly because they may have more time but it is governed by the half price concession they receive.
Admittedly mulltiple plots are now discouraged, but it is not uncommon for a pensioner to have 2 or more plots. We also have to take into consideration that they kept the allotments going in past years, during a long period of time when allotments were not popular.
I think they should have half price on the first plot and pay full price for any more they may have.
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One plot is enough for me and I am grateful for the concession, but do agree that now the mortgage is paid and have no children to feed or clothe, what with free travel and free swimming etc am not too badly off. Found it much harder to manage when had a mortgage to pay and children to support. Also as I am retired go to the allotment almost every day, so get good value for money, but don't tell the Council, as I like getting it half price. ;D ;D ;D
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So now that allotments are the in thing its ok to take them off the pensioners unless they pay full price if they have more than one. When I look around our site its the pesioners plots that are the most productive and are well cultivated.I'm not saying that some of the younger folks don't have worked plots but some do need a lot of attention.Like you said Lisa us pensioners kept the plots going when nobody wanted an allotment.I don't see why we should be targeted to help fill the councils coffers. What did they do for money when there were only a few plots taken on each site.
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I am all for pensiones on allotments and totally against taking them off them. We had one on our site who the council had targetted to give up a plot because he had 5, and they wanted to help reduce the waiting lists. All of his plots are immaculate and probably the best on the site.
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Thx tomatoada, the allotment is a slow process but there is no point breaking my back over it otherwise i wouldnt enjoy it. Where abouts in birmingham are you?
I am on a small site on the Northfied Bournville border. We all get on really well.
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When I first had my last Allotment I had two plots,I could have had half the site as not many were interested then.Gradually it become in vogue to have an allotment and the site filled up,I had a few sniffy comments but I did not care.
Give pensioners full concessions on all their plots I say........they deserve it. :)