Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Jeannine on June 24, 2010, 09:19:47
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I have wanted to start this for along time ,It would be very useful to me and I think many other folks out there too.
There aways seems to be a bit of a mystery about this so hopefully this post will help of anyone is thinking of doing it.
May I invite winter growers who regularly grow through the winter, to please post ,and share your experiences so that those of us who want to can learn from you.
Eg, things are started at different times and often it slips our mind till it is too late.
People grow in the ground, in tunnels, greenhouses,in cuke frames etc.
Would someone be kind enough to start us off.
Many of us know that garlic, some onions and broadies start in the darker days.
I do hope we can get this post off the ground and keep it going.
It would be good if we could get a winter gardening section.
XX Jeannine
What should be sowing now and are there any we have already left it too late to do.
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Oh..now we talking.. ;D I have just sown some russian kale for winter..I can be sown a bit later too..but I like to start harvesting some late autumn/ early winter..there will be some cabbages still to eat but more colourfull stuff is getting scarse.
I'm just about to sow some winter and spring caulis.. ;)
At the moment I already have 4 different lots of sprouting broccoli growing..earliest of those should start putting they first spears out about end of November and during December..and if cold weather really sets in it will wait untill first milder weather and then gives me first crop of the season.
I'm not big brussel eater..so I only grow one sort that will give me Chritsmas crop carrying on until march ..
I'll give other chance now.. ;D..those only some of the stuff outside..and there is still GH's to do... ;)
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Ok so is it too late to seed the ones you have got going alreay, acn you give us a list id dates.
Anything that will help us make a strart this year.
Varieties will be usful too.AND WHICH ONES CAN YET BE STILLN STARTED YG
XX jeannie
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I think this is a good idea, Jeannine. It's hard to remember to sow for Winter when we're right in the middle of mesmerising lush summer growth.
I've ordered some Purple Sprouting Broccoli seeds, first year I've tried them. I've read you sow them till June, so I hope just in time.
I'll also do kale this week (fingers xed)
plus swiss chard
That's mine. Will it be the same timings for you, as for us in UK?
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A very relevant question for me this year! I am looking into keeping the garden cropping as long as possible.
So this year I am still sowing!
I have just recently sown kale, cauliflower, pak choi late beetroot, and I have swiss chard going already, it will crop till late autumn. I am ready to sow autumn lettuce - scarole and radicchio. I am also trying winter hardy white onions, which I sowed this weekend and will keep sowing for the next few weeks. And of course I have lots of pumpkins that will take me through the dark winter days!
The brussels are in and are now 2 feet tall! They were sown in april, think now is a bit late for those.
And very daringly i have a packet of spring carrots! You sow in autumn and overwinter them!!! This is a new concept to me, and probably will be a big flop, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
I don't really have any tunnels, I am unsure as to whether to grow cabbage etc under tunnels. What are thoughts on this? and should lettuce like scarole be grown in a cold frame? or sheltered in some way?
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Ooh - I shall have to keep my eye on this thread! I really want to keep my garden productive over winter too.
We don't really eat a lot of brassicas and I'm not sure if I have room for it the rest of the time. But I've got some PSB that I started in pots.
I'm doing garlic and broadies as usual.
I'm going to experiment with sowing carrots, beetroot, salads, spring onions (?), oriental greens, lettuces, Really anything that is hardy, under cloches or under fleece for the winter. I figure if it doesn't work, it won't be a loss (other than the seed, but then I have so much!)
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Great idea Jeannine! And one which made me think a bit. And I realise that I still have quite a few things to sow. Im trying to get more from the allotment this year so Im planning on lots of lettuce and pak choi.
The late sowings of cabbages this year didnt do so well. After the winter they started to heart up but soon bolted when the warmer weather came, so Im hoping for more success this year. And will try and keep some notes as to what works well, so I can fine tune my seed list!
I sow most of my seeds in seed trays to be transplanted later (pretty much everything except Radish, Carrots, and Parsnip)
And having written this list down, it looks like July and August will be very busy !
Leeks Musselborough, Blue Solaise & Giant Winter sown in April will be planted where the 1st early potatoes are now
Parsnips Student sown late April and early May in crates
Cauliflower Purple Sicily and All Year Round sown throughout summer to hopefully crop in winter
Garlic early Purple Wight, Albgensian, Ibarian & Provence Wight Will plant in November to pick next June
Broad Beans Aquadulce will sow in pots in November. And will try and sow some direct. Plus another variety to compare, yet to be decided
Purple Sprouting Broccoli Early Purple from Real Seeds sown in April / May to crop in March
(will be planted where the garlic has been growing)
Brussel Sprouts Long Island Improved and Falstaff sown in April and planted out in May
Lettuce Winter density and Lambs Lettuce will sow August onwards for picking in autumn and winter
Lettuce Sylvesta a butterhead lettuce for sowing in late winter or early spring
Endive Pancalieri and Frenzy will sow in August and September for a winter crop
Lettuce Lobjoits Green, Pinares and Radiccho will sow in September and October for a winter crop
The varieties of lettuce will be added to shortly courtesy of Baker Creek seeds!! They have some lovely French heirloom varieties that sound good for winter. Time will tell
Pak Choi various, Choy Sum Puprle Flowering, Mizuna various and Indian Mustard Amsoi, will sow again in August for picking in autumn to early winter
Carrots Autumn King will be sown in July in crates
Radish Black Spanish round sow July onwards, in crates
Kale Black Tuscany will sow more in July
Florence Fennel (bulbing) will sow more in July for cropping until November
Cabbages
Red Drumhead will sow again in July / August
Durham early will sow in July / August (for Spring)
Chinese Cabbage Wong Bok will sow in July / August for picking through winter
Wintergreen will sow in July / August for winter / Spring
Savoy (Tarvoy), sown in May for winter eating
Swiss Chard Verde A Costa Bianca and Leaf Beet sow in July and August for picking through Winter and Spring depending on severity of winter
Perpetual spinach Leaf Beet will sow in July and August for Autumn and Winter
Spinach F1 Bella will sow in July and August for Autumn and Winter
All Brassicas will be under Enviromesh to stop the Cabbage Whites and Whitefly
The biggest pest over winter are Pigeons, so I will net most things they seemed to really like the Curly Kale last year.
The salads will mostly be under a plastic cloche. A salad bed is currently being built so I will be able to provide a little extra protection, along with fleece etc. I want to try and get some sheets of glass to give some extra light and protection for them a bit like a coldframe.
I also use the green debris netting to protect some plants as the site is fairly exposed, and may use this as well. I think its a case of using everything to hand!!
The only other things I try to keep going are a few herbs which will be on the window cills inside. Im going to concentrate on herbs I cant get so easily, such as Chinese Chives, Vietnamese Coriander, Thai Basil and new for this year Vietnamese Mint. But I find keeping herbs going indoors a bit of a struggle maybe light levels arent good enough or temperatures not warm / too warm. Its a bit of trial and error!
Well you did ask!!
1066 :)
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Right..it was begining May that I did sow my sprouting broccolies..
Extra early...Rudolph..that may well start cropping end of November (actually I should have sown it in april for that ::))
Early purple sprouting, White Eye and Late purple sprouting..those should keep me eating broccoli until may..at least..and then is time for summer broccoli.. ;D ::)
Few days ago I did sow some russian kale and scarlet kale..those have just come through and will go into ground once I have got garlic up..
I have also sown some parsley..which some will go into ground and some into buckets..those I shall lift into GH for winter and they will give me non stop cropping untill they bolt..hopefully untill next summer..
My brussels are Wellington variety..very long cropping one..this spring I still had edible ones on plants in April..but by then I've had enough..
I've got several sorts of onion, shallots, leek and garlic to last me ages...
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Normally I sow some spicy salad leaves into unheated GH border..that is about end of September/ October time..once germinated and grown a bit will take quite a bit cold weather..they don't start growing properly untill Feb/March.
In next week...or so..I'm going to sow some more carrots..Berlicum 2, Campestra and Amsterdam forcing 3...those are ready from late autumn onwards..and will keep through winter
And I'm going to sow some winter radish..China rose...they are better covered with cold frame over winter and used straight from ground..
And those lovely Jerusalem artichokes.. ;D ::)..I've got forest of them.. ;D
....more progress/sowing to follow.. ;) Hmm..I think I grow more for winter than for summer.. ??? ;D
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Oh..forgot.. ::) I did sow some Scorzonera and Salsify..that was back end of April..those are growing strongly..
In autumn I shall sow some lettuce..winter density and actic king
I will try this autumn to sow some peas for shoots..never tried doing it in late autumn..so that is something to experiment with..
I normally sow some Parmex carrots (short blunt type) in February into buckets in GH for early crops...
Phew..I will remember some more to do.. ;D
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Lemons..yes I have those ripening up during winter..in GH... ;D..can you grow gin,, ;D??
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I'm also intending to try and grow more over the winter this year. Trouble is my intentions don't always get translated into action! I'll have my usual things - leeks, sprouts, psb, garlic, autumn sown broad beans. I've recently sown swedes, trying modules this year, usually sow direct in July time and get enough to see us through the winter. I'm also planning to sow more seeds - have got 3 types of cabbage to try, kale, will be trying some late beetroot and carrots, lettuce "Rouge d'Hiver", winter spinach, and am trying Realseeds quick heading broccoli and Welsh Bunching onions. Last year I threw a handful of salad leaves mix under my psb about September time, and that gave me a nice early crop of leaves in the spring. Most of it will be under enviromesh or fleece. Also want to try sowing some peas to overwinter. In the past have tried some oriental vegetables but don't really like them much. Might have another try tho if I've enough energy left ;D
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Great replies everyone :)
I was planing on sowing some Cauli (all year round), spring cabbage and carrots in July.
This a picture that i've shown on here before,
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x296/nilly71/allotment/120420091044.jpg)
it was picked April 09 and everyone over the allotment said they found it so hard to grow cauli's, but i think it done so well because it grew over the winter.
I didn't get round to sowing any last so had nothing in April this year. Hopefully i'll be more organised this year.
Neil
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phenominal thread, thanks sooo much for starting it! I have just started some brocolli calabrese but had no idea there was so much I could sow now for winter!
I have also started some carrots from a Spanish friend that I hope survive these hot days.
My 1 garlics when I lift then will provide space for others so again thanks!!!
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we always throw some winter hardy white lisbon spring onions in with the salad and oriental greens, also some mooli radish to cook in stir fries..we have long red florence onions I have grown from seed over winter (franchi seeds), just coming ready now to use ;D
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I've just sown some caulis....winter aalsmeer and autumn giant...last one is getting a bit late..but I sure I'll get something out of them..if not..chickens will eat the greenery.. ;)
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I'm still in my very first season of gowing veg, but I guess cauli could be sown now to go in the broad bean bed when they come out?
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Yes you can..but don't just pull your broad bean plants up...cut them just above the soil level and leave the roots in..they will release nitrogen and feed your caulis.. ;)
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Drat, my onion and garlic bed will soon be cleared but I will be unable to sow for the winter as I had planned to put my spuds in there next year..........Will have to reorgainise my rotation. Any ideas on what to put in there that will be ready to come out by next March?
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Loving the photo Nilly ;D
Wilder - it's been a real experiemnt finding the right variety of garlic to grow. I found the Spring planted ones really didn't do half as well as the autumn/winter ones. I also found any planted in tubs or pots were a fraction of the size of ones in the ground - but still very tasty :)
And Goodlife - bring on the Gin, we'll be needing it with all this planting ;D
1066 :)
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important winter crops for me are parsnips, kales, caulis, cabbages (especially savoys) and in the greenhouse in boxes (mainly to protect and keep slug free and clean) loads of pak choi, chinese lettuces and loads of salads such as mizuna, mustards, rocket etc - I always aim to harvest all year round :)
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Good stuff, great advice and still time to plant somethings.
Goodlife..I have juniper seeds, isn't that what gin is made from, ;D
I am searching seed packets for late plantings.I have many of what have been mentioned ,better get cracking.
I have brussel seedlings to go out, plus some winter caulis and oriental stuff,leeks are in, just need to find a space now. Might use my disabled raised bed,and cut down on the winter squash currently in it.
Salad stuff I grow in a tub.So can be on the balcony if needs be.
I do have the book Eliot Coleman on winter gadening must take a closer read.
Can someone suggest a kale that is not too strong, I am trying very hard to get on with it but struggle with the flavour.
XX Jeannine
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Goodlife..I have juniper seeds, isn't that what gin is made from
Hmmm..at leats part of it.. ;D Have you got any gin seeds in that magic box of yours...that would be much easier than starting from scratch..?
Can someone suggest a kale that is not too strong
Scarlet is good one..and if you only eat the small leaves or the frilly ends on the older ones you should be in safe side... ;)..Oh and the red russian too...flat one..I eat the new spring leaves fresh..like salad leaves..
Actually I think some salad leaf mixes do use red russian in them. The leaf is light, dusky green with bit of pink....pretty pink.. ;D
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that reminded me...I found another bag of seeds in my box....Pentland Brig Kale..well label says Borecole..so same thing..never tried that one before..
It does say in packet 'very winter hardy'..so those are now in compost and ready to take over the world.. ;D
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Can someone suggest a kale that is not too strong, I am trying very hard to get on with it but struggle with the flavour.
For me, and I think for many, the Tuscan Kale is by far the nicest, but even with that I wouldn't touch it until the weather's cold. At its best I much prefer it over cabbage, it develops a nutty flavour and the texture is lovely too.
Red Ursa has also become a bit of an essential, but I only plant it to eat for the late spring. Find the leaves unpalateable in autumn, but delightful around April with a true spring cabbage taste and massive spurts of leaves - normally filling a bit of a gap post other spring surges in cabbages and spinaches.
This year, because of that I'm planning to try Purple Peacock which is a cross between broccoli and red russian so dual purpose, you can eat the leaves and allegedly they taste quite sweet. I've heard this can happen when you cross kale with brussels too.
One year I planted a load of corn salad which was in full flight in January (if I remember right), but I couldn't bring myself to eat it because it looked stunning, like an elf's garden and so bright, green and shiny contrasted with all the winter gloom. Also it would take a hell of a lot to make a dishful which is a downside. Does anyone successful actually grow it to eat?
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Does anyone successful actually grow it to eat?
Yes.. ;D..hmmm..sort of...I found one has germinated from the seed that was left behind...or only got into surface for ideal conditions..well I felt sorry for the little thing..and left it to be..and now it has grown really beautiful specimen..
But I know what you mean for not wanting to eat them/it..so I'm going the let it seed and see if it does naturally better than I would do by sowing it for purpose.. ::) Life is just one big experiment.. ;D
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Actually, I do sometimes eat the Tuscan early autumn and it's very pleasant; not sure whether that's because it's the early growth (don't sow it til now or July) or the size of the leaves, but later when it's still warm and the leaves are larger it takes a lot of cooking. Maybe I don't crop it right.
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I have been going through Winter Harvest books fr my area which is very similar to the UK.I have found varieties of the following that can still be plantes late June , lots in July and nAugust and some as late as October.
Broadies,Carrots,Parsnips,Cauli,Collards,Beets,Garlic, some of the sprouting broc but not all,Kale,Cabbages,Kohlrabi,Lettuce,Endive, Mesclun mixes,Radichio,Onions,lots of Oriental veggies,Peas for late harvest but not thru winter,Radish,Spinach,Chard,Turnips, Swede.Spring onions.
So all in all lots!!! Some varieties are specifically for over wintering and different to Spring sown.
I feel a thrill coming on
XX Jeannine
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Jeannine my OH is very conservative with his taste. Thought he was doing well when he had spag bol soon after we were married (43 years ago). His sister who is 76 has never tasted savoury rice or pasta ::). I cooked kale in the fat from chopped up bacon & let the bacon get quite crisp, you could add onions & garlic but didn't risk it for OH. Anyway he loved it ;D. He now enjoys it with gravy too.
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Me again. Is there a dwarf Tuscan kale. OH doesn't want to have to build a huge structure like he did last year. He doesn't like the water pipe jobs ::).
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Oh..I haven't heard any dwarf ones...I think they are all about same 50-60 cm tall.. ::) T&M has one called dwarf green curled..but it is not 'tuscany type' and they do not specify what height their dwarf type grows to.. ::)
I have found that 'my' pigeons don't touch kale..only cabbage, cauli and broccoli... ::)
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My cavalo nero is about 1mtr he says, I say a bit more ::).
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Keep you cavalo off from steroids... ;) ;D....and grow it just normal way.. ::)
Gosh..did you manure the ground last year to get it to that size? You only need one plant per family and winter veg is sorted... ::)
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It was double dug & manured last March & planted with potatoes then followed on with brassicas. White sprouting broccoli was the same height as PSB lost the will to live with the Winter weather.
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I sowed mine late last year and then put them in poor soil - do the same and it'll give you the dwarf variety you want. Tastes the same. :)
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Thanks earlypea. I'll try that approach but the soil won't be poor.
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Actually, come to think of it it had been manured in the Autumn, maybe it was just the late sowing. (6th July sowing and planted out 26th my diary says)
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Hi, I only have two types of kale right now??
Rose Nagoya Flowering kale ..no idea about this, it sounds like a flower!!
Black Curled Vates, came this year from an heirloon seedsman here as a gift..need to look that one up to.
XX Jeannine
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"Komatsuna is a typical Japanese leafy vegetable. It is often called Japanese Mustard Spinach in the US supermarkets"
I found this good sown in July, growing away strongly into the autumn, and very tender and speedy, huge green leaves. Sorry if it has been mentioned already - the various names are quite confusing.
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....and I forgot to mention sorrel. Mine short row stood the terrible winter, and moved really fast in early spring. I chop it into salads for its lemony tang, and wilt it to put into omelettes with herbs and anything else handy (goes a horrid colour but tastes lovely, and very tender). It's flowering and going over at the moment (still lots of leaves), but I am about to sow more.
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Lots of suggestions there then - particuarly interested in the Red Kales, will have to go and do some research!
And will also be checking up on Elliot Coleman's book :) - any others that people would recommend?
Jeannine, you mentioned growing salads indoors - can you tell me a bit more - like what kind of pot, type of salads? I only have a placcy greenhouse and a cloche, and have struggled in the past to keep things going indoors
1066
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I grow salads all year round in the greenhouse and I use any old pot I can find but favour cheap window boxes - not too deep and they mimic a small row - and I grow mustards, lettuces, mizuna, mibuna and rocket - all appear to be winter hardy especially any so called oriental type salads which will grow good outdoors as well
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And will also be checking up on Elliot Coleman's book :) - any others that people would recommend?
Salad Leaves For All Seasons by Charles Dowding is extremely good for the UK growing climate.
http://www.charlesdowding.co.uk/Books-Salad-Leaves-For-All-Seasons
It certainly tells you how to do it, pots, tubs, cloches etc. and the right time to sow a gazillion varieties for the best results.
My only problems with it are I don't eat a lot of salad and he has a taste for the bitter which I don't share, otherwise a very worthwhile read.
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Cheaper at Amazon & abe books though. Got both his books. Brilliant. Now converted to no dig. Well I've converted OH to it. Lovely man, Charles & OH. Emailed him with questions & he gets back same day usually.
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I've got a couple of the wine boxes like Alys used on her edible garden 8). I've also got some troughs behind the shed I think. OH goes to the tip when I'm out. It delays the row ;).
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When should Christmas time potatoes be planted and what varieties do you recommend.
Also is it too late to plant out brussel sprout seeds?
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I've just looked on Garden Action site & they say August.
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will be sowing greyhound cabbages and long re florence onions in august to plant out september, greyhounds will be picked young as spring cabbages and some left to heart up ..we're just pulling the onions from last year, not one has bolted ;D
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I was only thinking today how I would like to grow some onions from seed. They sound good Manic, where did you get the seeds from please?
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Hold on there grannyjanny...do not go and buy any onion seeds...just have a look of your PM.. ;)
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I was only thinking today how I would like to grow some onions from seed. They sound good Manic, where did you get the seeds from please?
mine were franchi seeds, Janet..the long red I bought from kings didn't say grow over winter but the franchi seeds did ???
anyway, i tried it in autumn last year and it worked, if they can get through a winter as bad as last, I'm sticking with them ;D
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Thanks Manic. I know where to look now.
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Hi, re salads indoors.Currently I have going
Mixed salad leaves, just planted and spring onions also just planted..these are on he windowsills inside in window boxes.
Under my lights I have 1 tray of Tom Thumb lettuce and 1 tray of Little Gem lettuce, these are growing very well, will try and get a picture for you, I am growing these in deep trays, they are the ones that are in the bottom of fridges usually to keep veggies etc in. I also have radish just breaking the surface in a smaller deep box, a bit like a shoe box.
I have two other window boxes in my bedroom which I will plant one with assorted brassicas to eat as mini greens and te other to grow spinach.
I usually grow this type of thing during the winter,used to do it in my heated greenhouse in the UK with a regular flourescent light on hand if needed.This is the first time I have used proper lights.
I also have an a small tom growing, it was from seeds I saved from a Tommy Toe plant I grew a couple of years ago, one branch was totally different to the others, it is growing like a mini tom not at all like a Tommy Toe.
I have found a couple of dwarf kale varieties that I am hoping to get seeds for.
Fribor Kale
Showbor
Westland
Is anyone familiar with them please?
As usual I am going to be stuck for space but next year when I assume we will have a second small plot one of them will be just used for a winter garden. This year I will be muddling through.
I would like to get some Walla Walla onions in this year, they can be planted for over winter or spring sown but they are incedibly sweet if overwintered.
Quite a few good books currently on Amazon here, used plus shipping saves a lot over new and free shipping so I am looking into
Mortality we have started a whole seperate post on planting spuds for Christmas.
I might have some spare seeds for caulis for overwintering if still time, I will take a look.
XX Jeannine
XX Jeannin e
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Jeannine..I've got some walla walla..not much..but some..shall I pop those in for your parcel?... ;D ;)..there should be enough for small bed..
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Goodlife, thank you but don't send , I don't want them to waste.I have them already, it is a US onion, the area,(Walla Walla) is not far over the border either so it is almost a local onion here and a regualar one for me. I can actually get the plants from Walla Walla.Thank you so much for the offer though, it was lovely of you to offer.
XX Jeannine
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Oh...now I know that too..I was wondering what sort of name is that.. ::)...I was going to google it and see the meaning..saved me a job.. ;D
There is some funny sounding places in the world.. ::)..wouldn just one Walla been enough..? ;D
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Hi guys, did you notice ..I asked and got this post made into a sticky!!! Thank you Sam
XX Jeannine
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Please tell me about this business of eating pea shoots. Do you get one shoot per pea seed? or are you talking branches? And what kind of pea.
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GA. I bought a packet of dried marrowfat peas (as seen on the edible garden) & put them in compost & watered them. We were eating them less than 3 weeks later & they were lovely.
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GA. I bought a packet of dried marrowfat peas (as seen on the edible garden) & put them in compost & watered them. We were eating them less than 3 weeks later & they were lovely.
But if you cut off the first shoot does one seed produce more shoots? or do you leave part of the stem to regrow?
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Annie...just like eating lettuce leaves...you let them grow few inches and then run scissors over them...sometimes depending how high you cut it they re grow but if cut just above soil level...well then not..
Those shop bought cheap dried peas do germinate..well those over here anyway..and as they are only a £1 or so per box even if they don't re-grow..it's still cheap..
we eat the tender new shoot with stem and leaves as whole..nice...you can dry some by tasting some yours..what ever they are..just a growing tip.. ;)..taste little like pea...still crunchy..but tender like salad...fresh or just little steamed..yum..they are nice by just chucked into omelette and lightly cooked.. ;)
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Thank you, Anja. Now I understand. I've never seen them for sale in the grocery store.
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Thanks for the extra info about salads indoors - I think I would struggle without lights (and I don't have any), so I'll have to try and keep things as nice and snug as I can manage outside
1066 :)
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I've never seen them for sale in the grocery store...over here they sell dried peas where all other dry beans, lentils and grains are..
I haven't seen any fresh pea shoots sold in salad bags though..
Do you eat soaked (and cooked) peas over there..in form of pea soup or mushy peas..?
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I have done salad greens on windowsills through the winter, they get a bit leggy but that doesn't matter for baby greens, also done brassica leaves the same way.
XX Jeannine
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I've never seen them for sale in the grocery store...over here they sell dried peas where all other dry beans, lentils and grains are..
I haven't seen any fresh pea shoots sold in salad bags though..
Do you eat soaked (and cooked) peas over there..in form of pea soup or mushy peas..?
Yes but we call it split pea soup. I learned the hard way- never make it in a pressure cooker. It ended up hanging from the ceiling in curtains of green gobs but tastes great cooked with a ham bone.
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Thanks for the extra info about salads indoors - I think I would struggle without lights (and I don't have any), so I'll have to try and keep things as nice and snug as I can manage outside
1066 :)
In an older post I mentioned growing salad greens under a glass storm window propped up with only a couple bricks. The lettuce didn't mind the winter winds blowing in and out- and it can get pretty bitter cold and icy here- but in Feb. I think it started growing again. That convinced me how tough greens can be. So don't be surprised if yours does very well given more protection. As I recall the variety I grew was "Red Sails".
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The dried peas usually available in US stores are split or in the Asian stores you can get whole dried peas but they are small and smooth not the wrinkled ones available in the UK. I have bought dried Marrofat peas in the US and can get them in Canada but only in the parts of stores that sell food from other countries, eg here in Canada and across the border in Washington State I can buy Batchelors for making mushies both regular and quick soak. I find if I want ti grow pea shoots it is just as easy to buy seeds for sowing but buy them by the pound, just make sure you get the wrinkled ones.
XX Jeannine
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Great posts!
Turnips sown during July usually make good roots. Turnips sown during August usually make roots to be harvested just before frost, depending on cultivar, and those plants that don't make roots survive well under fleece and then produce tons of greens in spring. I used to throw away turnip greens and only eat the roots. Then I read that people in some countries grow turnips only for their tops! Gave it a try and love the tops. If my August sown turnips are too late for root development, I don't mind at all.
Other winter mainstays (apart from leeks, PSB, chard, collards etc) are broadleaf and frizzy endives and Chinese cabbage. Both produce well into winter under cloches. If the endives are sown late, they will suspend growth and then flourish in spring. Fully grown endives don't tend to make it over winter under cloches like baby plants do. But they can usually be harvested until Christmas. I sow two batches.
Rocket and cress and American landcress are a must, also winter radish andl the orientals. Mizuna is delightful in a salad, other orientals are more suited for quick cooking. There are several salad leaf packets on sale with orientals in the mix. Lettuce can be harvested for a while, but only the really small plants survive under cloches, bigger ones can be harvested up to Christmas and then tend to rot. Overwintering spring Onions, Babbington's and three-cornered leek for garlicky and oniony flavours.
When I harvest my looseleaf lettuce seeds in August/September I shed a few in the corner of the greenhouse. They germinate very early the following spring for early lettuces.
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I would like to grow landcress and mustards, but I don't see how I can possibly squeeze them in into my rotation. I did ask this once before somewhere but didn't get any real reply.
Do you rotate them as brassicas, in which case I really don't have a square inch left for them or can you just put them in any old spare space, like I see some plotholders doing, and if that's OK - why?
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the mustards are certainly brassicas :)
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Sorry, I should add that I know they are classified as brassicas, otherwise I'll just get people telling me they're brassicas like last time (no offense Calendula, I should have said)
Question is why do people not seem to rotate them like brassicas, just stick them in any old place. Are they not prone to the same pests and diseases? If that's the case then I have places I can grow them, but I grow a heck of a lot of different big brassicas already so never have the space if I treat them like brassicas and rotate them accordingly.
And for me, they're not as nice as those brassicas (kales, broccolis, cabbages etc) so are relegated to second class brassicas, which I don't have a bed for.
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;D
rotation is great but not a crime if you bend the rules for a short time and even then you can go for years not having problems - at this time of year on my plots space is running out and I end up putting in what I need to just about anywhere - so I wouldn't worry about it
I only grow the mustards for salads (good green manure as well)
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I would like to grow landcress and mustards, but I don't see how I can possibly squeeze them in into my rotation. I did ask this once before somewhere but didn't get any real reply.
Do you rotate them as brassicas, in which case I really don't have a square inch left for them or can you just put them in any old spare space, like I see some plotholders doing, and if that's OK - why?
Earlypea,
as landcress and mustard are overwintering brassica crops and (in my case) lumped together with overwintering salads, endives etc, the priority for me is to stick them all together in a sheltered place in the garden or in the greenhouse, or somewhere where one of my large Geoff Hamilton type cloches will fit. I put the overwintering salad cloches anywhere I can following a first crop. This could be following the garlics or following the peas or following the potatoes, whichever of these happens to be grown in the sheltered spot in the garden that year. I also sow them in the greenhouse, where the mixture of overwintering species provides sort of a crop rotation from the solanum monoculture, ie tomatoes and peppers, that people usually grow in their greenhouses.
Crop rotation is the ideal that forces us to make practical compromises. Like in your case where you have too many brassica to fit the allocated space. If overwintering crops need protection to succeed at all, then this requirement has priority over precise crop rotation. Yes it is practical to fill a gap with something that is out of rotation, especially if it is only in the ground for a short while, like Calendula suggests.
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I forgot to mention Lamb's lettuce in my winter salad garden. This requires no special protection at all, although it will stop growing through the darkest months of the year and carry on growing as soon as light levels permit in February and March.
Blanched Witloof chicory is another wonderful addition to winter salads. The roots survive outside and get dug up as and when required. I plant roots in a bucket of compost in the conservatory and cover with another bucket for blanching.
A few general remarks about winter salad gardening. The limiting factor for a salad winter garden is not only low temperatures. We can cloche with a double layer of fleece which is enough protection for most winter salading plants, the bigger limiting factor is lack of light. This determines for how long plants will stay dormant.
Lettuces and other salad plants can tolerate a slight frost, but will only actively grow if light levels are sufficient and if the temperature is above +7C. This means that during late December, January and early February (here) I can only pick sparingly, whereas during late March and April my winter salad garden grows back faster than I can pick and I could supply a restaurant with salad leaves.
During January and February my sprouter works overtime for additional salad ingredients.
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so glad you mentioned the chicories - i grow loads and love the radicchio types especially the red/white and they are winter hardy and in fact the colder it gets the brighter the colours 8)
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The staging in my greenhouse is the metal 2 tier type with a lip on it. I water fom underneath with seed trays as it holds water for a time. I had a thought about getting some cheap thin wood & making them into sort of boxes which would hold compost & use those for growing. What do you all think please.
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You know those blue mushroom trays..shops normally just give them away..I line some of those with old compostbags..and they are deep enough for salad leaves...I've been given some deeper versions of those too..and been sowing some in them already.. ;)
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I forgot to mention Lamb's lettuce in my winter salad garden.
Thanks for the clarification on rotation.
I was asking in a previous post about Lambs lettuce. I have grown it, but as I explained I have no idea how it could ever make a dishful as it's so tiddly. How do you manage to grow it in sufficient quantity?
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I forgot to mention Lamb's lettuce in my winter salad garden.
Thanks for the clarification on rotation.
I was asking in a previous post about Lambs lettuce. I have grown it, but as I explained I have no idea how it could ever make a dishful as it's so tiddly. How do you manage to grow it in sufficient quantity?
You are welcome.
Two answers to this one. There are varieties around that are larger - a rosette the size of the palm of a hand or like a nectarine (as a rosette is of course three dimensional). But I have not found seed for such a cultivar, just seen pictures. Italian varieties may be bigger. As I say, I haven't yet got a definite answer on this one, but I am also after seed for such a larger variety, for the same reasons you mention. Anyone? To a certain extent you can get larger plants by spacing them further apart, but mine are still quite small even then.
Secondly, all my winter salads are mixed salads by definition, because I can never tell exactly how much I can harvest from the greenhouse or cloches and therefore grated carrot, apple sticks, sprouts etc make up any shortfall. If I only have ten or twenty small plants to play with, then they are used as pretty garnish on top of the salad.
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Question is why do people not seem to rotate them like brassicas, just stick them in any old place. Are they not prone to the same pests and diseases? If that's the case then I have places I can grow them, but I grow a heck of a lot of different big brassicas already so never have the space if I treat them like brassicas and rotate them accordingly.
well this got me thinking. So I checked up on my Joy Larkom Oriental Vegetables book. And she doesn't go into much detail about crop rotation - except to say treat as Brassicas and do a green manure in with this.
So I looked at a few of the specific veg - like mustards, etc - and the most common pests are flea beetle, cabbage root fly, aphids etc. but she reckons most aren't seriously attacked.
In another section she says clubroot is potentially the most serious disease with Oriental brassicas. And goes on to talk about prevention is better than cure and good gardening practices and hygene.
Not sure if this helps much :-\
1066 :)
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Galina, re the corn salad,lambs lettuce,mache, whichever it is called over there. I might be able to get you some bigger ones, if you can define big, they seem to be more popular is seed catalogues here than I remember in the UK, same with oriental greens, if you can let me know the sixe you are looking for I will have a search, the size has always put me off so it would be good reson for me too.
XX Jeannine
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Galina, re the corn salad,lambs lettuce,mache, whichever it is called over there. I might be able to get you some bigger ones, if you can define big, they seem to be more popular is seed catalogues here than I remember in the UK, same with oriental greens, if you can let me know the sixe you are looking for I will have a search, the size has always put me off so it would be good reson for me too.
XX Jeannine
thank you, have sent a pm
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The staging in my greenhouse is the metal 2 tier type with a lip on it. I water fom underneath with seed trays as it holds water for a time. I had a thought about getting some cheap thin wood & making them into sort of boxes which would hold compost & use those for growing. What do you all think please.
polystyrene fish boxes from the market or fishmonger are usually foc. Several gardeners I correspond with use them to great effect. Would save you the work of making boxes.
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Hope this works, I looked into the picture and found abit of info re large seeded ans small seeded, it seems Europe had more varietied than here VIT seems to be the popular one here, however during my finger walking I came accross this which had descriptions of many kinds.
http://www.twenga.co.uk/dir-Garden-DIY,Seeds-and-bulbs,Corn-salad-seeds
I also found that Chiltern sells 3 types. I will continue looking this side, according to Elliot Coleman in his book 4 season harvest he prefers Vit
XX Jeannine
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Oh good it worked. I am always a bit worried when I put long details on as my laptop has had it and makes a lot of errors.
Anyway, from the picture and chat on the site you gave me it seems there are large seeded ones and small seeded ones..
I did a bit of scrooting on my uni site
Grosse Graine is a large seed type, it is narrow and grey/green.
Cavello is another type glossy green but no size noted
Blonde..shell shaped small, lighter colour
Elan, very popular, small glossy, upright plant
Verte a Couer Plein, short round, smooth compact rosette
Verte a'Etampes extremely dark green, narrow, thicker and fleshier than most, compact rosette.
Vit,long oval glossy green leaves that form a heavy bunch
Jade, semi elongated Vit type
Verte de Cambria , small leafed
Johnson sells Jade
Suttons sell a large leaved type
T&M sell Cavello
Chiltern as I said sell 3 types
Eliot Coleman, the all year round gardening guy seems to prefer Vit(Four Season Harvest)
Binda Colebrook also a winter gardener says the English type gives more winter bulk but she prefers the flavour of the smaller French ones.(Winter Gardening in the Maritime Northwest)
I have both the above books
Seed catalogues that I have to hand offer me Vit and Jade, so it seems you may have more choice over there.
Sorry if I repeated from the first post, didn't stop to check LOL
Hope this helps, if you need Vit I can get it for you
XX Jeannine
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Janet, I use plastic troughs for my winter salad and orientals :)
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Thanks for the info Jeannine
sounds like the corn salad that Sutton's sell might fit the bill for a larger type. Vit is certainly small and I think I have grown Jade in the past and that was not exactly large either. Will have a look a Chlitern Seed's offering.
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Just glancing through Sandhill Preservation catalogue, they have just one listed
Broadleaf Mache.long glossy leaves, bunches.
XX Jeannine
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Some good questions here, two that caught my eye are pea shoots - yes you should have LOADS more shoots after pinching the first one off (plant a foot high or so, TALL PEAS work best as they have longer stems and are more vigorous), new shoots all grow out of the stem and from the base, pick every few days over eight weeks or more
and lambs lettuce - yes it is never a feast of leaves, they are small, ground hugging plants which is partly how they survive in wintry weather, also their roots are mostly superficial which is why they don't grow well in dry weather (often resulting in mildew), so I sow the seeds direct from mid August to mid September, and find the best date is the last few days of August for plants that are well grown by December, and should stand for most of the winter.
Sowing dates from now on are more critical than in spring because growing conditions are diminishing soon (sigh). Most oriental leaves can be sown now but do better when sown in early August, rocket too, and for winter rather than autumn leaves try sowing in late August. Module sowing helps if the ground is full and if it is dry.
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I think a lot depends on how much of a winter we get.
I always have leeks and s few greens to spread over the winter and the lean early spring months but this year when we got to -25 C It made more sense to leave the lottie and go to the shops (thank heaven we have them and tins, freezers etc.)
A lot of people cover with manure and/or black plastic over winter. There are a lot of crops which will survive a mild winter but sadly there are several bugs who like to over winter in them so there is an argument about whether it is better to leave the land or grow winter crops.
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i grow corn salad 'vit' for the winter and rocket (don't bother with either of those in the warmer months) grown with the cover of fleece and raised bed. mooli also did well for winter use and kept in the ground until spring. Autumn king carrots kept well till December in the raised bed.shall be trying some different salad leaves this year so shall be interested in this thread. what about blanching/forcing chicory, cardoons and seakale; haven't tried any but is a good way of getting produce early.
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Hello Jeannine.
Winter Garden Advice Please.
I would like to grow some vegetables over winter outside on my lotti but are short of space as only got a half plot.
I was thinking of mainly cabbages/cauliflower and can i plant them were my early/second potatoes are/have been with out any problems? if so i have some small polytunnel type cloches i can put over when it starts getting colder/wetter.
I have some all year round cauliflower seed will they be suitable and can you tell me which cabbage seed is best to use besides savoy type.
If i can get some winter onions can i put them in later on in the year were my summer cabbages were?
I am in West Yorkshire. Thank you in advance.
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Hi, I am not sure I can best advise you as I am muddling through a bit myself. I have never quite got this going properly for myself..I too have very little space so am being very selective. I know with space it is possible to pick types that follow on but I don't have that luxury this year so I can only do one or two at the most.
My list of varieties I am doing If this helps .
Cauli..Galleon
Cabbages..Durham Early, Savoy Tundra,and Chinese one called China Express
Kale Vates Blue Curled
Sprouting Broccoli Rudolph
Collards Champion
Pak Choi,,Chiang Chiang Shanghai
Chard, Magents Sunset
Spinach, Tyee, a semi savoy one, Olympia as a plainleaf , with a bit of Space to try it.
Swed Best of All
Turnips Hakurei,, for greens and roots
Carrots under cover are Mokum(my faves)with Mignon and Parisienne in containers
Spring onion White Lisbon Winter Hardies
Radish..whatever I have, not sure I do have some winter ones
Walla Walla onions are for overwintering
Lettuce..under cover I have several so will do a few then I do an indoor one in a tub
Beetroot, I forget the name but is very common
There are many more cabbages and caulis, I have loads more but had to pick just couple
Others may be able to advise you further.
XX Jeannine
Just to add to this, when I was looking for varieties I found Kings seeds very helpful, they had all kinds of cabbage and caulis with harvesting dates so you could go from one to another as the year progressed. I would check their site.
XX Jeannine
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Here are a couple of vegetables which caught my eye before and haven't been mentioned yet - was looking through wildgardenseed.com paper catalogue last night which reminded me - they give more details than online.
Chickweed!
Gets a wonderful write up - apparantly the new mache
http://www.wildgardenseed.com/index.php?cPath=55
Stellaria media
A species not just common, but circumpolar in its distribution. Where goes gardening, goes chickweed. Not to be confused with mouse-eared or the other non-delectable chickweeds, this is the smooth lettucy-green gem of winter for us. Long recognized by chefs and self-sustaining gardeners for its mild flavor and nutritional merits, this low growing interloper is now making its way into the same level of commercial trade that mache enjoyed 20 or so years ago.
I guess like other 'weedy' greens, Orach for example, it would be more substantial and not quick to run to seed in decent soil.
And another Alexanders a relative of celery which can grow wild (I saw some growing in the UK that way on TV on 'Grow your own Drugs' so it is possible here) and originated in the med.
Apparantly tastes milder than celery, which would be a relief after some of the celery I grew.
I'm thinking this might be a contender on my dryer soil - sown in late August for cropping in early summer before bolting
http://www.wildgardenseed.com/index.php?cPath=56
(Sadly they don't seem to have any for sale this year, but I'm sure I saw it elsewhere)
Edit - yes, it's here
http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/garden-shop/seeds/wildflower-seed/a/alexanders-black-lovage-20-herb-seeds
although a slightly different name 'black lovage', is it the same thing?
Did anyone try Alexanders?
Not from their catalogue, two more things on my mind......if I can find any earth decent enough at the end of the season, which is difficult - it's all gravel now with the drought.
Overwintering chickpeas, best sown in September - did anyone manage it in the UK? Apparantly they're lovely eaten fresh before they dry out, though you get a very low yield for the space - just a bit of fun.
And, I hope to be doing the bulbous rooted chervil again - sown in autumn, crops early summer. I did it last year and they germinated fine in spring, but I gave them mean soil like I do parsnips and they didn't develop beyond dolls house size then shrivelled up and died. Richer earth this year ;)
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Oops sorry I am not keeping up. There are some really good ideas in the last posts and some good links, thankyou.
Has everyone got their winter gardens in now or still sowing.
I have pretty much got in what I can , but have just sown some winter brassicas that were OK till mid July. I don't have space for them though so hope the pea and one of the bean patches will empty out soon.
I have started a mini garden on my balcony but it is shady so not hoping for much.
Has anyone else done any good in shade.
I also have filled window boxes in 2 rooms waiting for stuff, I haven't made up my mind what yet though.
Now next year I will be so organised ~~~
Would be grateful to hear any other updates as this part of gardening has been a bit hit andmiss with me.
XX Jeannine
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apart from the crops in the ground for winter which were sown and planted quite some time ago - PSB, parsnips, leeks, kale, chicories, I won't be sowing more of my other winter veg for a couple of weeks yet - that will include chinese cabbages, pak choi, chinese lettuces, and loads of salads such as the mustards, mizuna, mibuna - these all stay in the greenhouse throughout the winter
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just transplanted leeks into one of the empty potato beds, dwarf french beans into another half and phacelia green manure into another, I've started some oriental green salad so's I can plant it out before we go on holiday in august, more beetroot, and turnips where the onions have come out and 2 rows of autumn king carrots in a space I found ;D
going to try a last sowing of kohl rabi next
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Well done you two. I am really juggling space in my tiny bit of a lottie so sowing in pots with fingers crossed.
I wish I had your space. Next year maybe ;D
Manics, is it late for Leeks, I did mine ages ago and thought I was late then. I had an old gent who did leeks for me in the UK and he always planted them for me too so I wasn't sure. I miss him.I bought bthe seed and soil, he sowed and planted and it worked out real good. I was quite amazed when I did it, they looked like grass but have come on quite well. Next year I will do it at the right time ::)
XX Jeannine
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well, the leeks were grown by a lovely friend and, have you seen the price of baby veg? :o ;D
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Yes..
Where they late though, I was genuinely asking as I truly don't know if I did it wrong. I just presumed I had when I read your post.
XX Jeannine
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I don't think so, we sow our leeks in march, we transplanted them in june :)
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Oh thank you, I was too early , fingers crossed they wil be OK then XX Jeannine
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I've only just planted out my leeks (where the spuds had been growing), and still have another 2 pots of them to do this weekend.
I'm going to start the next batch of sowing next week onwards. A few bits every few days. I need to clear some more ground for the salads 1st though ( I had a splurge and got some lovely seeds from Baker Creek :-X ;) :) )
Busy time of year eh!!
1066 :)
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Sorry I meant to ask Manics about the french beans - what variety are you growing and will they be under cover / in greenhouse or poly tunnel?
Thanks :)
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I am adding Kintsai (chinese celery) to my winter growing - apparently quite winter hardy so will grow outdoors and some in greenhouse - just sown it but it is a first for me so don't know what to expect :)
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I have some Kintsai too - thanks for reminding me Calendula!!
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I grow broad leaved cress it provides a good source of green all winter. Has large leaves about four inches long, taste like normal cress.
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Sorry I meant to ask Manics about the french beans - what variety are you growing and will they be under cover / in greenhouse or poly tunnel?
Thanks :)
ours are just labelled dwarf french beans, they are now planted in half an early potato bed, outside, hopefully, we will have a good august/september ;D
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Someone gave me some Aquilon a couple of years ago and I planted them mid July and they were brilliant. Last year I planted Safari after onions, it was the end of an old packet that had never done well, and they were brilliant too, had loads.
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I have decided i am now going to plant a few things now and see how they do. I had been thinking this for a while, what have i got to lose just a few seeds and trust me and i can spare them.
Now after seeing this thread i have made my mind up. I have just planted a few beans just purple queen ones and will be sowing some carrots in the next week or so.
Fingers crossed for a mild winter as i am sure i will plant a few more things. ;)
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thanks for the replies - I have some Safari and Aquilon so will give a few a go and see what happens :)
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Safai is one of my faourites and I can't get them here, I was kindly sent some and then given an area for growing seeds to share with the lottie members, I chose the Safari as it was something new to them and gave me a place to multiply seeds for myself at the same time. No one has heard of them, they went out 2 days ago after being germinated inside and potted on.
You know thet are described as not being really high for productivity but I have never found that.Maybe they are thinking weight rather than number of pods.
Good choice
XX Jeannine
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I've only really been growing beans properly (i.e. on my allotment) for 3 years, and Safari is one of my staple crops. Love the taste and find it produces lots of lovely small stringless beans. I've marked a plant out for seed saving, so if you need anymore Jeannine just let me know :)
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just about to sow some red cos lettuce, I'm trying my own peat free potting compost (spent mushroom, council soil and sand, seived against normal mp compost ;D
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just sowed some greyhound cabbages to overwinter, old seeds and it says sow august for overwinter, nothing to lose ;D
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well had a right busy day yesterday and sowed LOADS of bits for winter - salads, oriental veg, more beetroot, cabbages, chard etc. Still carrots and radish to sow direct tomorrow :) and a few more salads to sow in September
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Thanks 1066, I think I wll be fine but will file the offer XX Jeannine
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Very excited about my winter growing, going to try my luck with a few things. Bought some peas to sow over the next couple of weeks a very hardy variety. have just sown some squash and pumpkin seeds in the seed house to transport to the allotment. Got some cabbages and broccoli, salad bits and some carrots. Want to do some potatos for crimbo but where am i able to get some from? Can anyone help please?
Hopefully get really cold it's the deer i'm fighting off more than anything. Must get my fence posts and get the fence up.
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Nikita, where are you? I was about to tell you that your squash won't make it, then saw the deer mentioned..
XX Jeannine
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Just found it, you are in Sussex.
Re your squash, unless you are planning on a heated greenhouse woth additional lighting I am sorry to tell you that our squash cannot make it.
Potatoes will only work with protection and are iffy outside because of the blight, some folks can do it but most of us do spuds in pots at this time..there is a post on her now doing potatoes for Christmas,cabbages and broccoli needs to special kinds for winter.
Can you let is know what varieties you have and does it give aplanting time on the packets.Same with carrottsand salad stuff.
Oh I feel like the prophet of doom here, get back to us and we will hwlp. XX Jeannine
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Hi Nikita77 :) I think with the spuds most people use something like Charlottes (you could get some from your veg shop) and then put a few (3 or 4) in a large pot or sack. And as Jeannine said provide a bit of protection. And you'll have some spuds for Xmas day ;D If you search on this forum for growing spuds in pots you'll come up with a couple of useful threads ;)
1066 :)
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Oh eck. I hope I didn't put Nikita off, she hasn't been back since this post XX Jeannine
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Nikita, where are you? I was about to tell you that your squash won't make it, then saw the deer mentioned..
XX Jeannine
I'm in Uckfield, East Sussex. I'm really pushing my luck with some things but if i don't try i'll never know!
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Hi Nikita77, I always reckon you learn loads from trying things out for yourself. So good luck! :) I'm doing some new stuff this year as well. I'm trying to extend my home grown food to beyond leeks and spinach in winter!!
1066 :)
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Hi Nikita77, I always reckon you learn loads from trying things out for yourself. So good luck! :) I'm doing some new stuff this year as well. I'm trying to extend my home grown food to beyond leeks and spinach in winter!!
1066 :)
Well this is what i was thinking this time last year it was vey mild. Everyone told me that i was planting things too early this year, but kept them protected a little longer so have great pleasure in showing off all the tomato plants and beans etc that were all twice the size of others!
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I usually start all my squash and tomatoes very early.The squash are potted on and on till they are in 5 gallon buckets, they go out as very large plants with protection. This way I get them outside as soon as the weather is warm enough and they stand a chance of maturing before we lose the light and sun.It works very well for the ones that have a growing season too long for the UK.
I am all for starting early if the plant can grow on as naturally as possible.
Good Luck
XX Jeannine
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Oh eck. I hope I didn't put Nikita off, she hasn't been back since this post XX Jeannine
Don't worry it would take alot more to scare me off than that. Work has been manic and obviously little one to contend with and a partner that is recovering from a car accident! As i am sure you can imagine life gets a little hectic! That's on top of the allotment and the garden!
Some of the seeds that i have planted just are seeds that have been hanging about and need using so i have just thought s** it i'll stick em in and see what happens.
I have bought some peas that you can sow up until oct so i may have an abundance of peas if nothing else. :D
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Oh good.
I am sorry to hear about your problems, that is enough to topple anyone.
XX Jeannine
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Is anyone still planting..just wondered what?
XX Jeannine
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I'm going to try some overwintering peas and broadbeans this year. I've done BBs before and they were frankly rubbish, but I thought I'd give them another go.
Well they might not count, they won't be actually edible in winter!
This winter I'm doing kale, PSB, swiss chard, mooli (thanks 1066!) and mizuna. And radish till they get too cold. Apart from that, it will be all quiet and cold and muddy on the plot.
But part of me thinks I quite like to know there is the quiet of a 'dead' season, to break between years and have a rest. It takes the pressure off to keep growing and improving. Do you ever feel like that? :-\
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Sprouts,PSB,kale and winter cabbage are doing well and I have just sown spring greens and overwintering onions. Alot of people at my site just clear every thing and leave it bare in the winter (or worse just leave it unattended with the summer crop all dead) but I like to think it's a year round thing
marg
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I'm a year-rounder too, but there aren't too many of us on my allotments.
I get really down in late September as things slow and the summer crops fade, but then the brassicas start to come into their own and I delight in their slow elegance.
I sometimes wonder whether it would be better for me pigeonseed to take a break and renew my batteries. On the other hand crops don't take a lot of maintenance through the winter, just checking nets, birds, pests and cropping and it's heartening to see things growing albeit slowly and the season's changing.
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I have always harvested all year round, so easy to do it - still sowing pak choi, chinese cabbges, radishes, turnips, soon to be sowing spring cabbages and the garlic and winter onions go in late september and all the greenhouse crops take over when the tomatoes. aubergines, peppers etc have finished - and don't forget green manures folks, if you don't plan to grow to eat you can plan to grow to enrich the soil :)
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Yes things are quiet overwinter, even with winter crops in. Maybe I'm just feeling tired this week!
theothermarg - I never understand that, I see that atour site as well, people who grow things but don't harvest them ??? That's the reward for the hard work! It's hard not to run in and eat all their tomatoes before they drop and rot on the ground ;D
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transplanted the oriental salads into 3" pots, getting them big enough to go in the ground and not (hopefully), get eaten ;D
the long red florence and ishikura onions will be transplanted into big, plastic, meat trays when I get back from cornwall :)
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I never understand that, I see that atour site as well, people who grow things but don't harvest them ??? That's the reward for the hard work! It's hard not to run in and eat all their tomatoes before they drop and rot on the ground ;D
Yeah I never get that one either! I see lots of things practically going to seed, especially things like swiss chard, or lettuces. There is one plot that is loaded with veg (their cherry tomato bush is chockablock, but I saw them there the other day and they just haven't picked any of them ??? plus some folk seem to leave lots of things for ages before harvesting them? I like the veg young and tender, just the opposite to what you can buy! Some people leave lots of courgettes, cucumbers etc until they are huge! They must taste 'orrible!
Trouble is I never dare to go and beg for someone else's veg. My neighbour kindly gave me a lettuce on Monday as I never can grow them. I would love to be such a good producer that people beg for mine! Sadly I am crap so that never happens tee hee
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I like the allotments in winter - quieter in lots of ways, but still beautiful, and still good to get out of the hosue for an hour or two and get a bit of exercise and fresh air.
Anyway I sowed some more Fennel, Chicory and Red Cabbages yesterday, still have some Ishikura Onions, salads and chinese celery to do :)
Then it will be time to order the garlic....... ;D
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Ohhhh red cabbage sounds good. Which variety please 1066. I thought I was to late for that one.
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we need to make a new strawberry bed this year, got the runners in pots, just waiting for the beans to come out ;D
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Ohhhh red cabbage sounds good. Which variety please 1066. I thought I was to late for that one.
it's a Red Drumhead, I got the seeds from a friend and I'd scribbled on the packet that I could sow it March / April or July, and as I didn't get round to it in Spring I'm doing it now. Also realise I'm a bit late, but nothing tried nothing gained ;D
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You just reminded me,, strawberry seeds which I have,,I think they get started this month XX Jeannine
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You just reminded me,, strawberry seeds which I have,,I think they get started this month XX Jeannine
Maybe you are right.
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Well today I planted out a batch of Pay Choi, Choy Sum, Chinese Cabbage (I netted these), plus some Scarole, Endive and Mache.
Earlier in the week I planted up most of the winter lettuce, which will be covered with a plastic thingy and then probably a bit of fleece later on in Autumn.
Will be doing another sowing in the next week or so of lettuce Valdor.
And tomorrow I'm going to sow some more Mizuna and Rocket and plant the rest of the Spinach and Chard out, and if I can find room some more Carrots (found a freebie packet that says good for autumn sowing)
1066 "Fingers crossed emoticon"
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Well today I planted out a batch of Pay Choi, Choy Sum, Chinese Cabbage (I netted these), plus some Scarole, Endive and Mache.
Earlier in the week I planted up most of the winter lettuce, which will be covered with a plastic thingy and then probably a bit of fleece later on in Autumn.
Will be doing another sowing in the next week or so of lettuce Valdor.
And tomorrow I'm going to sow some more Mizuna and Rocket and plant the rest of the Spinach and Chard out, and if I can find room some more Carrots (found a freebie packet that says good for autumn sowing)
1066 "Fingers crossed emoticon"
Now you've prodded me and probably others to clean out an area and get to replanting. It shouldn't be too hard to find plants to sacrifice since some do-nothings just twiddled their stems all season.
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just ordered some alfalfa seed to use as a green manure on 3 of the beds, can also eat the seeds ;D
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I sowed some more lettuce (Arctic, Winter density and Valdor) plus some more pak choy and some purple choy sum this weekend - here's hoping for some winter salads :)
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Sowed some more Japanese mustard greens, the last lot went to seed. I don't know how large the leaves will get now, at this time of year. But I might have a very small meal out of them!
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we can but live in hope Pigeonseed :)
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planted out the long red florence onions, some pak choi and oriental greens in the poly, still got lots of ishikura to plant, going to grow them as spring onions :)
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Meteor peas (sow late October-November) about to go in at the plot.
Two varieties of cauliflower, Gypsy and All Year round in the greenhouse.
Ninny
Edited to say Sweet Peas for the show soaking tonight ;)
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The little seedlings of mustard greens came up and were mown down before their time by increasingly desperate slugs. They're attacking all the hot veg they normally don't like, like winter radish. But they don't get through much of that - bet it burns their little mouths! ;D
But not to be deterred, I sowed meteor peas (snap ninnyscrops) and Bunyards Exhibition broadies this morning. Made me feel very happy to be still growing something, despite winter looming.
We've been eating lots of winter radish, and I wish I'd grown more. Maybe next year :)
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Just sown Douce Provence peas - they are supposed to survive overwinter (like Meteor and Feltham First) and Anstey GC sell them loose/cheap so I bunged in loads.
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Sounds nice - such a nice name for a pea! What's Anstey GC?
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^^ ah, you are not from these parts. Anstey is a village in North Leicestershire with an independent Garden Centre which is a Mecca for plot holders. A great place to buy loose stuff: seed potatoes, onion sets and beans and peas, lots of varieties and great on price.
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It sounds great. Bit far from Hastings... :(
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well I've started eating some of my winter crops - all the winter lettuce are doing fine, despite a frost the other week, and are a tasty treat at this time of year (oh and the 1st time I've managed to get salads at this time of year) :) and the winter radish are delicious - loving the black spanish round one !
Need to get round to putting some fleece on some of the salads yet. It will be interetsing to see how they do over winter ......
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My chickpeas seem to be frost hardy so far too - it's a bit of an experiment because I couldn't get any specific variety. I know some overwinter, but not sure about these unknown Waitrose ones. Hopefully fresh poddy chickpeas in June or thereabouts.
I'm thinking my August sown parsnips will become a spring treat because they're only modestly sized right now and the first sowing has a much bigger yield than expected. Whoppers again.
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all our oriental veggies are doing well outside, even after the early frosts..winter salads are doing great inside, still eating tomatoes, ripening on the window sill..just cut a de cicco romanesco broccoli and a very large swede :)
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I felt I had been a failure with my winter garden, missing sowing dates, but today it does not look that bad. I like to mix a few chicory leaves with some sorrel and ground cress and have a good chew while weeding. Broad beans, garlic, winter onions, shallots are showing, with more beans and shallots to go in. Three sorts of chicory, but not enough of each. Will do better next year (usual gardener's claim).
Have dandelions been mentioned? Last spring I put heavy pots over the biggest plants and they sent up very tasty pale leaves at a time when not much was about. Plan to start sooner this time - I'm sure I can find some......
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That's a good idea - when do you put the pots over the dandelions?
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Well I finally got to the plot today, nice bright sunny (but cold day here) and checked on progress - all the salads are doing fine - picked a lovely butterhead, and a escarole type :) And the Oriental veg is still looking good - the Chinese Cabbage have been nibbled but seem to still be growing well and the purple choy sum look great. At home I've just picked the last of the French beans
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Dandelions: last year I made the mistake of digging up the roots and putting them into a "Dandelion Corner", but they grew quite well. I was surprised by how nice the leaves were, though slugs got in on the act.
This time I will select a few plants in a messy area, clear a space round them and add a little fertiliser, cut off the mature leaves, then put big black pots over them with a brick on top. I am thinking February, March sort of time. After all, they are the origin of chicories and endives, free and self sown.....
I am digging out a rather neglected area at the moment, but am reminding myself to stop attacking the biggest dandelions; use them in the spring, then dig them out. I realise this won't suit tidy gardeners.
Can't recommend land cress too highly, as well. I have a thickly self sown patch and am assembling the best into rows to grow slowly over the winter then spring to life as the weather warms up.
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http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/448805
Can't resist this, on the subject of eating dandelions. And Joy Larkom writes that dandelions can be blanched from late summer onwards, and that big roots can be dug up now and forced like chicory. I can't believe I have thrown so many away.
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yes they are great and free ;D although I tend to prefer chicories and don't forget dandelion and burdock cordial - trouble is dandelions may you want to weeeeeeee ;D so an excellent diuretic as well
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My land cress is doing brilliantly. I have a handful of leaves everytime I go down to the lottie. It is great as a green manure as well. Slugs do not like it.
My best one has leaves four to six inches long. I actually much prefer it to lettuce.
There is also a nice type called wrinkel crinkle but my OH decided to tidy it up before I had taken off the seeds so I need to source some more.
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That's interesting Digeroo, I'm not convinced yet by the land cress, but may appreciate it later on in winter when the lettuce bite the bullet or have all been eaten. What variety are you growing that gets such high praise? :)
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yes they are great and free ;D although I tend to prefer chicories and don't forget dandelion and burdock cordial - trouble is dandelions may you want to weeeeeeee ;D so an excellent diuretic as well
Hence the common name "piss in the bed"! I remember being sent out to picking dandelion leaves to make salads years ago when I lived in France.
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Wrinkle Crinkle cress is quite nice. It comes in a Niche salad mixed by T&M also available from Unwins. You do need to rogue out the ones with the wrong shaped leaves if you save seed.
My one appeared as a weed and I have been growing it now and eating it for many years.
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The land cress sounds interesting, I might try it next year. I wonder if the leaves will survive the freeze we have at the moment.
I went to the lottie this morning, to dig up all the winter radish which were left - I worried that if it stays frozen for a while, and gets even colder, the roots might freeze - then they just go all translucent and mushy.
So I'm a bit disappointed they only made it to November. But I plan to cook up the leaves as curry and freeze, and grate and fry most of the roots and make lots of stuffed rotis to freeze. I have no idea how well they freeze, but worth a try!
(I do realise it's a bit odd that I rescued them from a freezing allotment, only to freeze them using electricity... ;D)
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;D ;D ;D Yes it does seem daft, but electric freezing works better ;)
I must sow my landcress next year, I hope it still germinates :-\
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Hello Jeannine you can start growing plants in the garden starting very early in season first make a choice of what you like at differant months of the year carrots , parsnips, some hold in the cold weather or you can store them leeks hold up in the cold and should all the way into the new year sprouts are the same califlowersI have up to end of january but i do cover with fleeze and straw. Broad beans have not been doing to good in wales due to low night temps so i dont start them untill febuary in 3inch pots. but look at what you want to do over winter there is a lot of information on seed packageing, Hope you have a lot fun while leaning thats what gardening is to me Dont forget to put something out for the birds they help as well. Rugbypost
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Thought I'd do an update on my winter salads and veggies
The last of the Uncovered winter salads on the plot (Brune D'Hiver and Petite Rouge were dug and eaten at the end of Nov. 8) I will definitely grow Brune D'Hiver again - lovely, large, open, tasty lettuce
The salads that are on the plot that had fleece on them, which was knocked off with the snow have pretty much perished - except the raddicio which still look good. Memo to self cover the salads properly next year! But the winter radish have survived being uncovered as have the mooli - picked / dug some yesterday ;)
The salads I grew in the garden - I used those blue mushroom plastic crates, with a compost bag to line them and some old compost and then in one of those placcy greenhouse staging things - have survived and in fact are still doing really well. I have a mixture of winter lettuce in them - like Tom Thumb, Petite Rouge etc, and even after all the cold and snow they are still looking fine and dandy. except I no longer know which is which cos the frame blew over in strong wind in Nov and all the labels and plants got mixed up! Except Tom Thumb which is really recognisable, but the problem being that it is not one of my favourites so I don't think I'll bother growing it again ::)
All in all its been a real success this winter salad growing thing. So thanks all for the inspiration and suggestions. I'll definietly be doing more next year, and hope to fine tune it a bit more as well
1066 :)
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Well done, 1066, you seem to have really made a success of winter salad.
What a difference 200 miles makes......I've lost all my winter lettuce, mooli, rocket, even parsley which has never happened before.....turnips,carrots, all sogged, really only parsnips and leeks left. This was stuff in open ground, covered and uncovered, and in an unheated greenhouse. At first I was inclined to give up but a bit of sunshine today has decided me to try again next year, including using my large conservatory as a greenhouse extension. And I suppose the parsley might just produce a bit more if we get a warm spell, I've left the stumps in as a mark of optimism!
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I thought my chards in the open had all lost the will to live... but signs of new growth today... :)
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Small, its been a real learning curve! I set myself a bit of a challenge earlier on in the year to have more winter veggies on the plot. And of course there have been success and failures. The whole attempt at growing salads was a real suck it and see. I had no real idea whether or not it would work. So next year I'm going to aim for proper cover, raising things up and more protection. I think my major battle is to deal with the wet, not just the cold, but the wet ground. And as I couldn't clear the snow on some plants they have well and truly keeled over. I think January is going to be a lean month in terms of edibles from the plot, so that will be another thing to think about for next year ;)
My brother has a plot in the NW, probably not too far from you, and what he and I grow, and when we grow it varies hugely, he's high up and exposed, we're south, low lying but exposed.
I don't have any parsley on the plot, but it is pretty tough stuff so don't give up on it yet! So keep up with the optomism ;D
And yes my Chard is looking pretty miserable too, the spinach seems to have recovered more quickly. My problem last year was that as soon as it warmed up lots of stuff bolted!
Ah, the joys of growing
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just pulled the last of the overwintering carrots in the poly, had to fleece them and keep them very dry, plus some of the smaller leeks outside, although one or two look a bit dodgy. our indoor salads looked as if they were dying as I hadn't fleeced them but one or two are standing up for themselves ;D
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Yes I think in early spring you might get some parsley leaves from it, small. I foolishly saw that happen last year and thought - hooray, it's perennial parsley! But it's biennial, so by summer it went to seed... ::)
It was a tough winter wasn't it? But I'm amazed at what does survive. Carrots, purple sprouting broccoli and kale - business as usual. I ate all my winter radish but other plots kept theirs all through the ice and snow.
I miss my winter radish actually - very nice snack. This year I'm going to grow loads more. The tastiest and crispest were definitely Hilds blauer Herbst und Winter, c/o 1066! :-*
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The Mooli were fab but I think I prefer the taste of the winter radish too 8)
I'm coming home in a few days and am really looking forward to getting up to the plot to see what has survived. The salads in the garden (under protection and in pots/containers) were holding out ok, even though I hadn't watered them for about 6 weeks............
1066 (the neglectful gardener!)
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I'm a Winter Radish fan too... my (unprotected) raddichio succumbed to the cold and snow...
Saddad (The idle gardener!) ;D
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I didn't plant any winter radish :(
lottiman (Useless gardener) ;D
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I found some red radish glinting in the snow a few weeks back and was surprised they were in fantastic condition as well as forgetting I had planted them ;D
all chicories survived as well albeit the out leaves were a bit shoddy, deep inside great
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I'm obviously in good company what with idle and usless gardeners ;) :D
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I planted garlic in july, and it seems to have liked all the snow and ice. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV-mZxXwiWs
jim
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Most of my deliberate winter garden items have succumbed to frost, but we are enjoying a lovely crop of lamb's lettuce (self seeded? except last year I harvested them all and dug the soil over and we had beans there). I also found a small patch of American landcress. Babbington Leeks are really coming on now and I am harvesting lots of leaves. From HSL I had multiplier onion Minogue (a flat leaved spring onion type) and this one is doing very well and we are pulling stems. The walking onions that I planted out last year as little top bulbils are growing and in a week or so will be large enough to be harvested as spring onions (another bout of winter would delay that). Greenhouse rocket is doing well, but the leaves are still small, the rocket outside is ok but still looking worse for wear after the early snow. I have finally transplanted the lettuces that should have gone into the greenhouse when the really frosty, icy spell started back in November. Fingers crossed they will grow away soon. And in a week or so I will start sowing the first batch of lettuce for this year which will go in the greenhouse or under cloches. The next batch of lettuce will be for outside.
The broadleaf endive has suffered badly, just a bit too cold I think. It has been really wonderful in other years though. Who knows, may be the centres of the plants (which perhaps are still alive?) may resprout. Would be nice but I am not holding my breath.
I still have Witloof chicory roots in the garden that never got dug up. Maybe they have survived and we could get an extra bonus winter salad.
I don't know whether it counts as winter garden, but my sprouter is producing mung and adzuki bean sprouts on the windowsill to supplement the fresh greens.
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My Winter Sails lettuce was swamped by rampant chickweed because I was too lazy to shovel snow to get to the greenhouse.
GrannieAnnie (the negligent gardener) ;D
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thanks for the update Galina, its nice to hear about other people's successes and not so successes! And you've given me some extra ideas for next year re the walking onions - I spotted a few spring onions in my winter salad bed - I'd forgotten they were there, I think they are one of the red varieties, can't remember at the moment though!
GA - tut tut! ;)
1066 (the hypocritical gardener :D )
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GA - tut tut! ;)
1066 (the hypocritical gardener :D )
criticism accepted as appropriate.
GrannieAnnie (chastened gardener) :-[
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;D ;D ;D - I'm in good company then !! :D
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And in a week or so I will start sowing the first batch of lettuce for this year which will go in the greenhouse or under cloches. The next batch of lettuce will be for outside.
Hi Galina, I meant to ask you about the varieties that you will be starting off? I'm trying to figure out from my hoard what would be the best bet for early lettuce sown in the depths of cold, wet and windy February :)
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To my surprise, my herb patch has sprung back to life - mint, lemon balm, chives, thyme, sage and parsley all OK. Lost all the salad stuff though, except some white lisbons that got left in by mistake, I might leave them for seed now. Biggest disappointment (I didn't really mind losing the swede) was the spring broccoli, a white variety, never tried it before and was really looking forward to some early brassica taste. I can't decide whether to try winter gardening again next year or just to give up and hibernate.
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Keep trying. You never know, next year we may have a more normal winter!
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Do JAs and parsnips count for a winter garden? Lettuce planted Novemberish time doing okay under bell cloches except they kept blowing off during the winds (the cloches I mean)
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Well in my little outside patch we have leeks,brussell snips and some winter carrotts tiat seem ok, plus a few savoy cabbages. so all in all I am happy.
Inside we kept a few plants of pepperdew peppers insideby digging them up and put in pots.. pruned them like roses and they are growing new green now on a windowsill.
Under lights I have done well, my dwarf toms have been producing all through the winter and still going strong. The salad patch has been great for mixed leaves and my containers for small lettuce, radish,carrot and green onions has kept us going without having to buy much.
My very late planted garlic, started in pots and going out in December have taken on well, they are still green and healthy so hopefully will spring into growth soon.
To be fair, our winter has been very mild, wet, but not cold so we have been fortunate.
XX Jeannine
i
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I've had some monster snips of late and there's still about a 1/3 of a line in, I also have 2 celeriac and some curly kale which I thought had finished left in the ground. ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Galina, I meant to ask you about the varieties that you will be starting off? I'm trying to figure out from my hoard what would be the best bet for early lettuce sown in the depths of cold, wet and windy February :)
From the hoard definitely Austrian Greenleaf. This is the hardiest and earliest here. They might appreciate a bit of cloche cover, but cope well with a bit of frost under cloche. Sometimes I find self seeded plants outside too.
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Small, I agree with Robert. This winter was very unusual. My sprouting broccoli and the collards still look worse for wear and a few plants are dead. Unusual weather.
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well on the upside Small your herbs have bounced back :) And have to agree with Robert and Galina, give it another bash. But what a shame about the broccoli, its one of the 1st new crops of the year for me and I look forward to it so much.
Thanks for the info Galina :) much appreciated :)
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I know people in the US, who often have colder winters than us, often protect brassicas from frost. It might be worth doing here, as I've lost plants myself in the past. I didn't have any in this winter due to illness last year. I'm not sure what to cover them with, though.
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I lost my PSB in the low temperatures and my Savoy cabbages rotted right through to the middle. Next autumn i have some panes of glass which i'm going to put around them before we have very low temperatures again
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Robert I uase agricultural fleece XX Jeannine
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My autumn planted shallots, onions and garlic have really perked up over the last couple of weeks. The broad beans, however, were cut down by the frosts for the second year running (Aquadulce).
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I am SO pleased with my aquadulce BBs. Most of them died last winter, but have survived through this one even though it was worse. They look every bit as good as my neighbour's which he has recently planted out from their greenhouse pots!
Oddly, the best are the ones I sowed on 15th November; they crouched underground, I suppose, until things improved - I thought they had died. The 20th October ones came off worst, being well above ground when snow and frost struck. I think I will try to remember this. I am in East Sussex, and in future will go for two sowings on purpose, instead of by accident. I always chit them first, believing that mice etc avoid them, and they get a better start in cooling soil.
I lost all except one red cabbage, but am leaving them there in case they develop. PSB is fairly good, only just starting (being sold in cheap market today for £2 per pound!) Ragged Jack kale/Red Russian was hammered, and only five have survived, surprisingly. Strong. well grown plants, a year old, most just keeled over.
Chicory/endive/whatever surviving very well, and I never grow enough of them (Sugar Loaf and a tough looking Italian one, grumolo verde).
Land cress excellent, a really good leaf to add to salads, and the sorrel is amazingly energetic and has been for a month. Leeks good, perpetual spinach (Bright Lights and bog standard green self-seeding) looks healthy but is not really moving yet. Onions and shallots put in around November OK but not wonderful, yet. All garlic and elephant garlic up and thriving (planted November).
Anyone eat wild garlic? It's up all over the place outside my plots.
Sprouts useless and blown, never succeed with them, but I am using them as "spring greens", soft and sweet.
Flat leaved parsley: several plants have died but there are survivors just getting going - and some of the "dead" ones are surprisingly starting to sprout greenery around the edge of the dead looking root. All the curly leaved parsley has vanished.
It would be useful to have more reports about successes and failures.
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It was clearly colder here... the red chicory survived. We always lift the red cabbage as it doesn't. Land cress is back, garlic mustard and french sorrel just showing.. Sprouts good, still got some. PSB most plants keeled over and rotted.. down to about 4 from 24.. :-X
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Is "garlic mustard" Alliaria petiolata? It's good stuff and grows all over the place - nibbled some today.
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Probably.. also goes by the common name of "Jack by the Hedge" :)
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"Jack by the Hedge"
Exactly. All over the place. Can't think why it is not eaten by everyone. Also wild garlic leaves. Chopped into salads along with blander lettuce leaves.
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down the road from you artichoke it sounds like a similar year, with a few differences ;) :)
Radiccio (Treviso - pointy leaves) has done superbly, the rounder ones less so. And not bitter
The Cicory / endive's have been a bit mixed, I pulled one the other day, yum - need to find out the variety as it was given to me by a mate
The Pal Spring Onions are still there
Pulled the last of the radishes yesterday, Hilds Blauer Herbst Und Winter and the spanish round did brilliantly
All the cabbages, leeks etc doing fine, I have a red leaved variety - January King that has done well, its hearting up at the moment, maybe worth a try next year
Just picked the 1st of the PSB, some heads had formed a month ago, while others have nothing to show yet. Bit of an odd year (mixed bag) for PSB
All the garlic has come through
Other lettuce (small plug plant size I sowed in Spet) have been planted out and are growing well
Kale, is mixed and looks like its going to bolt, but it has done well both in the garden and the plot
The Spinach (geant d'hiver) and a couple of other smaller leaved varieties, plus the chard (yellow stem one) are coming back into production, had a few leaves in the week and boy they were tasty. Must remember to sow more of both
Now roll on summer :)
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Bump, someone was looking XX Jeannine