Allotments 4 All
Produce => Recipes => Topic started by: PurpleHeather on March 14, 2010, 08:49:32
-
Over winter my day time TV viewing included far too many of those cheap to make cheffy programmes along with 'how to spot a valuable antique at a car boot'. Or let's emigrate shows.
One subject which cames up a few times, which, up until now I was 99% ignorant about is Sour Dough.
It seems that after the supermarkets put the bakers out of business and upped their loaf prices, proper bread is increasingly hard to get hold of. Granted most of us are happy enough with a the sliced stuff which stays fresh forever spread with a yellow substance one molecule short of plastic which gloats over being low in cholesterol.
I decided to check out sour dough and found a technically basic web site which is within my science education free ability to comprehend.
http://www.io.com/~sjohn/sour.htm
Before I embark on this mammoth task of testing my patience, I wondered if any one else uses/has used the method and can perhaps confuse me further (no effort needed) on the subject.
-
This is something I've "been meaning" to do for a long time! I make simple bread with instant yeast and that is very successful. Hugh F-W has a section on sourdough in "River Cottage Everyday" that I have been procrastinating over for a long time. That's a very interesting link from you. Let us know how you get on.
-
I had to smile at your post,,, you do know that bread making, I don't mean bread machine is very addictive. very addictive.....
there are all kinds of sourdoughs, one can purchase a starter and go from there or you can do your own starter.
I have been making our own bread/yeast baking all my married life 53 years next Tuesday. It gives one great satisfaction to turn out a good loaf... I made regular white bread yesterday, 4 loaves at 20 ounces and 1at
16.
It really is quite easy and is not as time consuming as people think, it can be timed to suit you......
this is sourdough loaf baked in a cloche.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/qahtan/bake/sourdough.jpg)
.qahtan
-
Qahtan.......
Do you use a mixer to mix your dough or do you mix by hand?
Duke
-
When doing a large amount , yesterdays bake was 1 litre water and 10 cups flour.
, yes I use a mixer with lots of power, before I bought this mixer I used my Cuisinart food processor....
qahtan
-
Thanks Qahtan I keep hoping that Santa Claus will bring me a really good food mixer one year! I would love a Kitchen Aid or something similar. :)
Duke
-
Now come on.
Any one can mix a bit of flour with yeast, sugar, water salt and a midgin of fat. Leave it to rise a while and either knock it down and then let it rise again and bake it. I know that because I have done it. I am not asking for a bread recipe.
This is going back to basics big time.
NO yeast. Creating yeast from the flour is what I want advice on.
I too first made a loaf in 1960. Using fresh yeast. I have also used dried and that wonderful stuff you simply add to the dried mix. Cottage loaf with one round loaf stacked on top of another was the one I did aged 12. It is supposed to be a difficult challenge. In fact I have not seen one for years.
Constructive advice on medieval style or even sooner baking techniques. How bakers left their dough under apple trees overnight to get their dough to rise using the yeast naturally produced from apples sort of advice. Is what I am after here.
Back to basics. Not how to use a food mixer or bread machine. I can do that all that.
I can do all those breads from around the world. Been there and been taught by people who have learnt from generations who have done it before.
They always use pre made yeast in one sort or another.
This question is about making your own natural yeast. I tried to make it clear that I did not want a recipe for commercial bread. Obviously I failed
-
pardon me, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I didn't see any recipe posted.
What you are asking is about wild yeast, that can be obtained many fruits or veg or just from air if you live in the right environment.
here we have a lot of vineyards..... so obviously a lot of wild yeast around in the air,
If you make a wild yeast starter it will be of the area that you live, even if you got a starter from say San Francisco, it would soon turn to your local....
There are hundreds of sites on google that you can if you want find out more and more about sour dough....
Also there was a question that I answered, about by hand or machine
qahtan
If, as it appears you are a dab hand at making bread but want the challenge of making sourdough, you may wish to attempt DESEM.
-
Bad day PurpleHeather??!!! ::)
-
Duke
We all get to the point of serious disappointment when we find that we have failed to express ourselves properly and I think that is what I have done here. I did not want a competition about the best made loaf.
Never mind , I will try it myself.
Infradig, I will PM you if I get any success.
-
To make your own starter=yeast=root...so many names...
well you mix little water and flour (wholemeal or rye is best) to make sloppy mix, cover with tea towel and let it stand, add another spoonfull of flour and water after few hours and repeat this couple of days.
Let the starter stand and every so often mix it to give some air. When you see froth on surface your yeast has started to develop...it may take a week to happen...
Now throw away or use up your mixture with normal yeast to make bread but do not wash the bowl....
start process again bit of flour..water and new starter from the bowl...
Strenght of the yeast grows after few batches of making bread...
My own starter is few years old now.. I save about egg size lump of the dough, covered with flour in the bowl. It keeps fine few weeks providing it doesn't sweat as it goes moldy....so no lids on bowl just towel...
And
-
..the starter may dry up and go hard in storage..thats ok...just luke warm water and good soak to soften it up again...
next day you feed it again with a cup of flour and when this is "bubling up" again you can start making bread again...
very slow process...but worth it...
good thing with sourbread is that you are not in hurry with it like with normal yeast,
I soak my starter over night, activate it in the morning ,make the dough in afternoon and bake it in the evening...almost 24 hour process,,only 5 mins at the time though..
-
Whoops..I should have looked at the website...would have saved some typing...
I noticed some difference though..
I never store the starter in the fridge,,,after making the bread, I scrape the bowl and all the left over bits are sprinkled with flour and stored in same bowl in room temperature in cupboard,,under the loosely covered towel( to keep dust off but letting the air circulate).
In storing the starter in fridge there is allways the danger it going off as it is active all the time although very slowly so.
-
I have a starter that I have had along time, originally is was simply flour and water from boiled potatoes,equal amounts and a tad of sugar which was covered with muslin and left out, it picked up whatever yeast spores were in the air and made itself,
I feed it with flour and water again equal amounts every so often and a touch of sugar sometimes. It has travelled with me wherever I went and lasted a long time.
You can cheat a little by adding a wee bit of yeast to the original fluids, it makes little difference in the long run as it adjusts to your kitchen anyway. You can then use some of this when making your bread, it has the consistency of a thickish batter, or you can save a piece of your dough to start your next bread. I find the batter starter works best for me as it is easy to keep going. Don't store in the fridge, I have mine in 2 litre fat juice bottle which gives it plenty of head space.If I don't use it for a while I chuck a bit out. If left for along time it separates and has a liquid at the top. I am told that is Hooch and very alcoholic but never dared!!If I go on holiday I put my starter it in the fridge to slow it down.
Hope this helps.
I can find you a printed How to make a starter if you prefer, I know I have a few in some book or other,will look for you.
XX Jeannine
-
Just found these. some are yeast fortified and some are wild.
Apologies in advance for the typos but I am working one handed ,book in one hand,typing with right and laptop balanced on tummy.
flourless starter
3 medium potatoes
4 cups water
1 tablespoon dry yeast
3 tablespoons honey or sugar
cook spuds till soft,drain save water,mash spuds,when the cooking water has cooled to lukewarm put in large bowl.add all the other stuff including the spuds,stir,cover with towel,leave it in warm place two days,when frothy store in fridge
potato water starter
1 tablespoon yeast
2 teaspoons sugar
3 cups warm water from boiled spuds
2 more cups of water
2 cups bread flour
dissolve yeast and sugar in potato water,put in large bowl, cover with towel leave 48 hours,stir in rest of flour.it will get frothy.store in fridge
milk starter without yeast
3 cups milk
2 cups flour
let milk stand in warm place covered for 24 hours,add flour,when bubbly store in fridge..for extra insurance you van add a tablespoon of sugar and half tablespoon yeast
raw potato starter
1 cup warm water
1 teaspoon honey
1 cup flour
1 cup raw grated potato
combine all in large bowl.cover,leave in warm place for few days until foamy..be patient, this one will take up to a week to get frothy. store in fridge, feed weekly
honey starter
1 tablespoon yeast
2 tablespoons honey
2 cups warm water
2 cups bread flour
dissolve yeast and honey in water.add flour.cover ,leave in warm place till frothy, store in fridge.
all the above are from thegarden way bread book..a bakers almanac
I have three pages also from Bernard Claytons complete bread book but they are much the same if you want those too.
XX Jeannine
-
I have been galvanized into action! Loosely following Hugh Fwa-Fwa at 8am I mixed 100g of ASDA Strong White Flour with warm water until like thick paint, giving it a lot of air by thorough whisking, and put it in a bowl and covered with cling film, and left it on the kitchen bench.
6pm Nothing obvious yet!
-
Don't use cling film, use muslin, wild yeast spores can't make it through cling film. XX Jeannine
-
Take off the cling film,,, the dough can't breath,,, gasp gasp..... qahtan
-
Ok. Thanks for that. I had been wondering, because it mentions lids, tupperware etc. Makes a lot of sense!!
-
That's: thanks both!!
-
Muslin on!
-
Just me again, I always have to ask a lot of questions,,,, ;-)))
maybe I am jumping the gun a bit but did you notice just a tiny bit of a swell in the cling film,,,,, just wondered,,, me,,, qahtan
-
Sorry! Too late! Not that observant! Carbon dioxide?
-
;-(((( ;-(((( Q
-
Hi thanks, now it is getting interesting.
The recipe I gave a link to (that is the bit in blue) on my initial posting. I thought he had made it a little too easy and as it was from over the pond where I know that there are different yeasts in the air as well as different flours etc.
I did want feed back from closer to home and there are certainly plenty of hints there with decent advice on starting out.
Thinking about it, I have probably made the starter without realising it. I remember once leaving some uncooked batter in the fridge and forgot it was there for a few days and recall wondering how the water on top could have turned so dark brown.
I probably would have used cling film if I had not read that advice.
Now one small thing about honey. I know it has properties which make it antiseptic and in the past they had no sugar (not the tate and lyle sort anyway) Is honey what would have been used or is there enough natural sugar in the flour?
Being unscientific as I am, struggling with mixed knowledge of insufficient quantities. Like, too much sugar can kill the yeast in brewing. Natural yeast is the white film on fruits such as grapes.
Is Late summer the best time to start off the process when there is fruit ripening then?
Would one of those crocks meant for rumtoft be a good container do you think?
Has any one used 'spelt' ? It rises much quicker when using conventional bread recipes. I have noted rye and whole flour which makes sense.
To make matters worse, I do not tollerate wheat gluten too well, but can have buckwheat, rice and corn flours. I dare not try rye as it is supposed to be worse but oats don't seem to affect me. The gluten free bread I can make or buy tastes like a combination of sawdust and soap. I am not celiac (so the doctor assures me) so it is just a matter of trying things and see if the stomach reacts or not. Then resting it for a week and trying something else.
Thanks
-
Sourdough rye bread is a bit leathal for even those who do not have gluten or other problems...until your stomach gets used to it anybody doing it, start with small dozes.. ;)...it's a bit like with Jerusalem artichokes..
There was advert in tv today about sourdough bread program ?! Anybody catched that???I didn't catch the day or the time but it was going to be in bbc4?
-
Re your container, I think the rumpot crock would be two big ,I use a jar ,1/2 gallon it is short and fat, theres lots of space if the yeast volcanoso when I feed it. XX Jeannine
-
There's a good explanation of the methods and science of sourdough, and some good recipes, in Bread Matters by Andrew Whitley, who runs the Village Bakery in Melmerby. I haven't done his sourdough myself, but the hot cross buns I once made were superb.
If your sourdough loaf is cooked thoroughly, it should be very digestible.
Happy rising! ;D
-
Having made various starters I have used a method that was published in the Daily Telegraph about 4-5 years ago. This used a jar or tupperware box and you added flour and water each day. Since the yeast is on the ground flour covering makes little difference, obviously there may be some bacteria in the air but it uses what is on the ground grain.
It takes a couple of days to fizz and then you can feed again. Every time you use some you just add more to the mix. I will check the recipe given later and post, although I thin I posed it in this section some years ago.......
My OH has used the starter to make superb breads like naans, the sour taste goes superbly with curries.
OC
-
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,12005.0.html
Was it really that long ago......?
OC
-
Started Monday morning, by Tuesday morning nothing much in the way of bubbles, but clearly had changed, now very silky. Today, Wednesday morning much the same but "something" happening. Added 100g of Tesco Strong Stoneground Wholemeal (as suggested by Hugh F-W) and enough warm water to make like thick paint. By 10.30 this evening things definitely happening! Smells like a brewery and bubbles a bit!
-
Smells like a brewery and bubbles a bit!
That sounds/smells/looks like it - just keep feeding it.
OC
-
I did a quick sourdough starter at the weekend:
500g Rye Flour
500ml water
A decent rounded teaspoonful of diastatic malt syrup (from brewery shop)
Mix and cover with a damp teatowel in a coolish room for about 24 hours.
Fermented beautifully, and is now the basis for 9 loaves, 8 of which are in the freezer. ;D