Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: genlistlass on March 06, 2010, 07:28:27
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I fancy opening out one of my fireplaces and installing a multi fuel stove (hopefully obtained from freecycle ??? ??? ???)
But after emailing my local council about 2-3 weeks ago about whether I'm in a SZ or not, I have had no reply............grrrrr. All I got was a non-reply automated email...... grrrr.
Do I have to drive the 24 mile round trip just to ask them this in person, as I want it in writing not a tel convo? Don't do snailmail any more! More grrrrrrrrrr's.
Gen in Northumberland
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Its easier to ask forgiveness than permission!
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Its easier to ask forgiveness than permission!
Not when dealing with planning departments of councils!!!!!
You'll have to phone your local council, find out who you need the permission from (identify the actual person, not just the department) then put pen to paper, and invest in a stamp (they are 30p for 2nd class, as you might not know, not 'doing' snail mail anymore)
you will probably have to send in detailed plans / explanations of proposed works.
Q. Have you had your chimney checked for it's integrity and suitability for a multi-fuel burner?
(we had to have our chimney re-built and lined before we cuould install a wood-burner.
rgds, Tony.
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Easy first step - email your query to your local Councillor - you know the one, the person who's most high-profile in your area & delivers newsletters, including carefully posed pix of Imself doing Good Things, ie litter-picking in your community. :P That'll be the one most anxious for your vote at the next local election - works for me every time 8) You could also ask him/her anything re: points in Tony's post too.
Make him/her work for the vote he hopes to get ;D
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Fear not. You will get fed up clearing away the ashes, the additional dust, having to store solid fuel and the smell of burning ........Long before some one reports you to the council.
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Fear not. You will get fed up clearing away the ashes, the additional dust, having to store solid fuel and the smell of burning ........
Spect they've gotta be a 'love 'em or loathe 'em thing then... :-\ I loved ours when we lived in Glos. And it didn't make even a quarter of the dust of the old open fire we used to have when I was a child. I'd really like to have one (with the back up of my CH system, of course.) :D
Good luck with getting the gen., gen :P and more to getting one from Freecycle.
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Gen, this might be quicker than waiting for the council.
http://smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/locations.php
We had a visit from a stoves engineer yesterday as we want an estimate for replacing our open fireplace with a wood-burning stove. Why not get someone in to chat to you about it? At least you would know then whether you would require a flue liner as that could be over £1000.
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Paulines suggestion makes a lot of sense - plus the stove guys will know what the legisaltion is in the area, i.e. the dos and donts
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we are in a smokeless zone and have an open fire for years .we only put it on when it goes dark
loads of people in the area do the same
never heard of anyone having a visit from the council ;)
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Thank you to all have have given so much sensible information.
I will get a "little man" in to have a look. The chimney I am going to use has a Baxi Bernuda gas fire with back boiler installed at present but that's going to be replaced with a combi boiler in the attic next week. So I will have a gaping void in the fireplace. Might already have a liner as its been used for c/h boiler..we will see.
Thanks again all
Gen in Northumberland (-0.7C at 1.23 a.m. )
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The 1960s 'smokeless zones' act seems to have been repealed in 1993 and replaced by the clean air act.
My understanding is
It is the fuels and appliances sold which have to comply with the regulations.
So, as long as you do not do something such as shred old car tyres and burn them, you should not be breaking that law. Loads of people have 'wood burning' fires. Not every one uses them all the time. They are the sort of thing dad will light up on Christmas day whilst mum does the turkey. A fashion statement rather than the only form of heating in the house.
Appliances made before that legislation to comply with a law passed in 1993 are going to be getting on for 20 years old now at least. I would be surprised if you will get a second hand one on freecycle because they are worth a bit as scrap. Unlike a fridge which is hard to get rid of.
There is a short period of time where you can emit some smoke, that allows for the fire getting started in the first place.
The clean air act can be found :-
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1993/Ukpga_19930011_en_1.htm
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Loads of people have 'wood burning' fires. Not every one uses them all the time. They are the sort of thing dad will light up on Christmas day whilst mum does the turkey. A fashion statement rather than the only form of heating in the house.
We have a wood-burner, and it has been our only (used) form of heating the house since I installed it 7 years ago. (we do have a combi boiler, but we only use it for hot water, our wood-burner has no back-boiler built in to it)
All of our wood comes from skips (back of large joinery manufacturer).Our wood-burner heats the front-room in less than 20 minutes from a cold-start, and a copper kettle on the top of it will be boiling in the same 20 minute time-frame. It's nice to be snug when everyone else's electric or gas supply gets interupted during cold spells. ( the neighbours come round to keep warm when this happens). ;) ;)
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I would say that most built up areas are under smokeless zone rules, unless you live middle of nowhere you might be exempt..
I found the info from our councils web-site when I was in need.
The installer knew about it anyway and would not have sold us woodburner for anything else.
But even if you have lisenced woodburner or solidfuel, if your medium is not up to the standard...eg.wood seasoned enough you may still produce too much smoke for what allowande is..
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[attachment=1]
this is our woodburner. ;)
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That looks fantastic Tony. Been thinking of getting one as I have a huge open fireplace which eats wood and is very inefficient (looks nice when it has a roar on though)
Are they much bother to clean and run?
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Are they much bother to clean and run?
We only burn joinery wood, so we only have to remove a bit of ash about once a week. (always leave a bed of ash in bottom of a wood-burner, and don't use a grate, just a set of front bars)
We NEVER clean the glass.
So, No, not much bother to run and clean!! ;)
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Having an old chimney re-lined is not cheap,multi fuel burners are not cheap.
But they are wonderful-about the cost of a holiday abroad??
Two weeks in a modest hotel in Italy or a fire that will last for years and brighten any home?
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Really enjoying all the replies to my original posting!
Like Blokes stove in "Gallstones on Sea".. been through there when daughter was at UEA.
Seems as though stoves are like Marmite, either love 'em or hate 'em.
I'm sitting toasting my toes in front of my old Baxi Bermuda with the pretend flames flickering (quite realistic compared to modern gas/electric fires) I will miss it when its gone and there is just a gaping hole in the fireplace, even if it is as ugly as sin. Woodburners are not exactly pretty either but the heat and the flames are enough to make me, the cat and the dog very happy.
Gen in Northumberland
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it's far better to put a combi on the ground floor if you can ?
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I think they are lovely, but then I'm biassed as we've had one for a couple of years now. We have central heating, but it means we don't have to have the CH on half as much, and especially at this time of year when it gets a bit nippy and you don't want heat in all the rooms ;D Besides, not having a telly, means we sit and "watch" the fire ;D ::) ;)
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Greenthing - no outside wall free in house, so combi will be in attic like most in this area. Will be remote controlled so not a problem (says she hopefully!)
Gen in NBL
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Are they much bother to clean and run?
Nick, not everyone has access to joinery grade wood to burn, the rest of us get logs delivered, which can vary from load to load, but generally are fine if you find a decent supplier. As to cleaning, this might help http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,55863.0.html
But otherwise no real fuss!
1066
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Cheers 1066 and TonyBloke..
Don't think I can afford one this year so I'll have to save up for next Winter!
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So I can't burn my shredded tyres? Drat and darn it!!
Just an aside, there is a difference between woodburner and multi-fuel. Woodburners need a bed of ash, multi-fuel (as with open fires) need an airflow underneath e.g. a grate.
Hope you find one on freegle, there's never anything like it on my local (Brum and Tamworth) ones. There have been a few reasonably-priced ones on ebay recently, but it's like everything else, never one when you need it!!
Best of luck anyway!
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In a smokeless zone any solid fuel stove in use must be certified as 'exempt'. This means you must by a model of stove that has passed various emissions test. Here is the current list of exempt stove models and makes:
http://smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/appliances.php?country=e
These have a secondary combustion system which ensures smoke and soot is almost completely burnt rather than going up the flue.
Additionally, the installation details and flue design must meet building control standards. The flue must be insulated so that the flue gasses stay hot and do not condense. A normal brick chimney does not comply, and will give you serious problems with sooting, because it is too big a volume for the flue gasses to heat up properly. You are supposed to inform building control so that they can check the details, but in practice you can do the work (ensuring it meets standards), then if the Council does find out about it, they will have no problem with it.
I found this company helpful when I installed a stove 2 years ago. This links to their page explaining how you should line your chimney:
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/lining_a_chimney.html
I bought all parts from them and installed everything myself. Warning, putting in the flue liner is not easy!