Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: Kea on February 11, 2010, 11:35:05
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We have recently set up a new allotment association and joined NSALG. However we are now wondering what the benefits actually are, Ok we can get cheaper seed from King's but because of the time our year runs October to September ordering things like potatoes is always going to be a problem. We get sent one magazine to share between an increasing number of members, wouldn't be so bad if everyone had a password to access an ecopy but it seems the NSALG isn't in the 21st century yet. I think we maybe looking at alternatives for next year. What do others think?
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I don't really think there are many pluses to being a member!!
I am and don't buy Kings seeds and apart from paying my subs every so often don't see anything for it!!
I did see a copy of their magazine which, I found, incredibly boring - nothing much about gardening just about who's who in their hierarchy and who judged which show etc. So, by relevance to me, absolutely no interest at all!
I still intend to pay my subscription as if and when there is a major paddy up and down the country about getting rid of allotments, then, I think they would be useful then!
Old Bird
:D
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Our Association is affiliated to NSALG. We recieve a bundle of 'the allotment' magazine, ( we've got 700+ members, on 14 sites)and it is full of interesting articles and ideas (well it is these days).
Our association has had our Regional Rep (Karen Kenny)come up to one of our committee meetings to offer guidance and advice. Have you met your local area rep, yet?
I have travelled to Corby to visit Bryn Pugh for a prolonged meeting on legal issues, and spent hours on the 'phone trying to resolve some really sticky issues caused by years of previous mis-management.
We also get our Public and employers liability insurance through NSALG.
The Kings seed scheme is very useful, I can't see how your years start and finish date effect this, the seed catalogues come out in August / Sept? I've had delivery of seed spuds last week.
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I agree with tonybloke.
We've had lots of valuable advice from Bryn Pugh, as a result of which we've been able to shed the site of a couple of members who refused to cultivate but took up a lot of land and our time.
We get insurance through them: both public liability (in case the Society is sued) & employer's liability (to cover injury on working parties and other communal activities). We charge each member an annual supplement of £4 to cover NSALG & insurance, regardless of how much land they rent; not one person has complained, and when it came up at the AGM the other week, everyone agreed it was a fair way of doing things, and necessary for the Society.
We started the King's Seeds scheme for the first time last year and, although only a few members ordered, we raised nearly £60 for the Society. We're hoping for more this year.
We have 80-plus members, so I'm sent 8 copies of the magazine; they go to the Committee, as a perk!
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We have 80-plus members, so I'm sent 8 copies of the magazine; they go to the Committee, as a perk!
[attachment=1][attachment=2]
these have just (literally) arrived (wierd co-incidence, or what?)
we get about 70 magazines, and they get distributed to all of our sites on a pro-rata basis, via the site secretaries, and are passed around to all who show an interest.
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Although I am not committee now I made sure we re-affiliated after our last lapse (under different management). The legal advice is invaluable if your site/committee need it. You should get 1 mag per ten members. We leave ours in an unlocked outhouse if members want to see them.
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Sounds to me as if we are very small fry (allotment numbers) and you are all a lot more organised than we are. I am sorry if I sounded rude about them but to me they are faces in a magazine that I see once a year and have no day to day relevance in our lives down here in Minehead.
I will watch this thread and see if I am missing something else!
Old Bird
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I'm not a member and I'm conscious that some of what I'm about to criticise the NSALG for are problems that I should join them to fix. However, you did ask:
I think the surge in popularity of allotments has overtaken them and left them behind. The problems facing the allotment movement today are largely an appathy by councils to do their duty and promote allotments, not least by providing enough for everyone to have as big a plot as they want. The powers are there but councils are free to ignore their duty and the only organisation capable of challenging that is the NSALG. So where are they?
The allotment movement needs leadership, and the NSALG are best placed to provide it, but where are they. The ARI have made a better fist of it, contributing as they did the LGA's allotment management best-practice guide Growing in the Community, but they're moribund without their funny-money. There are a couple of other wannabees offering seed schemes and site insurance but splintering is hardly helpful and is just a symptom of the NSALG's irrelevance and weakness.
They come over like they're still in the good-life 70's. Their web site's rubbish and there are several decent gardening magazines/papers if that's what you want so there's little point them diversifying into that when their core competance should be supporting the movement - something only site managers and activists are likely to be greatly interested in.
As it happens I don't think these are problems that can be fixed by joining. I think it's something the NSALG management must resolve to fix themselves, and that kind of reinvention doesn't often happen.
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Actually, the local ARI mentor chap came to the NorSALG meeting on saturday.
ARI is managed by the Federation of City Farms and Community Gardens, with support from the National Society of Allotment and Leisure Gardeners.
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They come over like they're still in the good-life 70's. Their web site's rubbish ....
I have to agree quite a bit with Unwashed on this point.
The latest magazine arrived last week and this time we got 2 for just over 40 members so obviously the 1 per 10 members is not the same for everyone. It was a much bigger magazine but again not much in it reminds me of the "NCT" with lots of stuff about people you don't know. Our members are all in the computer user bracket except for two and we all just find the website useless, we assumed there must be a member's only section before we joined.
Some more competitive members were hoping there were shows they could enter but there is no info about that so they're disappointed.
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Kea,
I am glad that it is not only me that finds them and their magazine pretty much a very boring names and faces and judges type thing. There is so much more to the Allotment movement than growing for showing and the traditional "cloth cap northener with his leeks and pigeons" type image growing for the annual show.
We are not all growing for the biggest leek or carrot competition and the magazine - to me - comes over as Mr Blogs of Biggleswade with judges of blah blah. I did have cause to email them back 3 years ago about my polytunnel and whilst they did give helpful advice were not into getting stuck in and righting a wrong.
We pay our subs either every 3 years of 2 years and get a seed order form, no receipt and nothing else. I am not saying that I expect more for the silly subscription money but to me they are a little pointless unless you are into the committee/senior membership and meetings/shows which I am definitely not!
Old Bird
:)
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We pay our subs either every 3 years of 2 years
Old Bird
:)
how do you get away with that? we all pay our affilliation fees yearly?
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We pay for 3 years or so at a time Tonybloke. I seem to remember that it is £6 for 3 years? Not sure of the amount. Saves paying every year!
Old Bird
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Our allotment association's affiliated to NSALG. I don't have much experience of them but I know that when the council imposed a new tenancy agreement on us last year Bryn Pugh gave very prompt advice when e-mailed.
Also I really rate the Kings scheme. Hardly ever a problem and great value for money. This year I'd ordered 1kilo broad bean seeds but they sent 1 packet instead. I contacted them and the kilo bag arrived immediately. So a free packet as well. I was well impressed.
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When our allotment was threatened with a planning permission proposal for 150 homes we
decided to join nsalg - through their help and advice especially karen kenny who I might add
is a volunteer we have saved a very neglected site and opened up about a 100 new plots.
For two pounds a year and the savings you make from the seed scheme which incidentally
raises money for the allotment site and the free legal advise I think it is churlish to complain.
yes I have phoned the headquarters in corby and found the paticular lady i spoke to rude
and disinterested and yes if I wanted to I could find fault elsewhere if I really tried but I am
really impressed with their clout.Once bedford coucil found out we were a united front with
national representation their attitude changed overnight.I currently have two plots on Mile
road allotments in Bedford and would like to thank karen kenny publicly on this excellent
site for her wonderful support.
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Welcome to A4A the pair of you... :)
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yep, and welcome from me as well. ;)
Karen has visited our association, and given advice at one of our committee meetings, she's a credit to the national association.
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Hoorah for Karen Kenny. ;) ;D ;D ;D
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I'd rate the NSALG very highly for their legal work. They've helped us fight off the developers on more than one occasion. They have helped save numerous sites and were around in the bad times fighting for the rights of allotmenteers before allotments became fashionable when councils were selling off sites. People slag them off for being old-fashioned but they're the first port of call when sites are threatened. The Kings Seeds scheme is also excellent at under half shop prices.
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Our allotment site is in the NSALG and we think they give us quite a lot of support. We too get news via the magazine, and have regular meetings with the regional organisers. We also get our insurance through them and have had lots of legal support, especially on a planning problem we had with the local council. This is the first year we are having our seeds supplied by Kings, and it seems to be working out well. We have half price seeds on sale at our shop on a sale or return scheme. It is reassuring belonging to this sort of body. We have about 150 plots so are quite a biggish site. busy_lizzie
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Our committee has just decided to leave NSALG and go to the AGC UK. due mainly to the huge hike in insurance costs, which particularly hit a small association.
I did not find working with the solicitor they had very easy- he just ignored my e-mails, so when I telphoned months later he said he never used e-mail as it was "unsafe" so I am amazed that he promptly e-mailed Lord Rigby. I realise e-mail is not "safe" for complex or confidential information but OK for general enquires as this was. If he felt they were so unsafe they should not give an e-mail address.
I had a very patronizing reply to a question about taps on allotment sites on another occasion.
However it sounds like Karen Kenny is a star and I am sure there are others like her.
If you are likely to need legal advice over complex issues I would guess they are best to deal with it but as we have a supportive council we have decided to give the other association a try.
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I should mention that NSALG and anothre organization (forgot the name) are running a free 1 day course at Walsall Road, Allotments in Birmingham with very full agenda looking at most aspects of allotment management. It does look a very interesting day, and maybe if they do this sort of thing more often we may feel they have moved on a bit.
Anne
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nsalg also do offer the magazine in an electronic format for members
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I should mention that NSALG and anothre organization (forgot the name) are running a free 1 day course at Walsall Road, Allotments in Birmingham with very full agenda looking at most aspects of allotment management. It does look a very interesting day, and maybe if they do this sort of thing more often we may feel they have moved on a bit.
Anne
Are you going to it Anne? That's 'my' site!
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Just an after thought: at three pounds a member per year you get all the advice, seeds etc,, a newsletter for every member, and liability insurance at no extra cost if you join the SWCAA. Seems a better bargain as a national association? I find it on www.swcaa.co.uk
that would severely increase our association's insurance costs!!
with over 650 members....................................
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Are you going to it Anne? That's 'my' site!
[/quote]
Yes I thought it was!!
Betty I am very tempted-I think your site is inspirational and would love to see it for myself. And to meet another A4A'er!!
I had decided against because I am not able to drive that far, but I have seen there is a train station which looks like it is not too far away.
so yes I will send the e-mail now. Hopefully I am not in bad books too much for our change of allegiance. :-[
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Anne, there is a train station at Perry Barr, then either a 51 or 52 bus will take you opposite the allotments. The bus leaves from the One Stop shopping centre which is just yards from the train station. Or if you are energetic it is about a 15 minute walk.
I hope you do come, I love meeting A4Aers. :)
PM me if you need more directions.
Betty
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Thanks Betty I have sent the e-mail off. I'll let you know if I need more directions.
Really looking forward to it now.
Anne x
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Just an after thought: at three pounds a member per year you get all the advice, seeds etc,, a newsletter for every member, and liability insurance at no extra cost if you join the SWCAA. Seems a better bargain as a national association? I find it on www.swcaa.co.uk
Clucking bell, we're being spammed by allotments associations now!
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Clucking bell, we're being spammed by allotments associations now!
;D ;D ;D
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Just a thought but if you buy larger quantities of seeds from somewhere like moleseeds, then split them between you, they work out much cheaper than normal retail anyway.
Our gardening group does this independantly and saves a packet (no pun intended)
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I'm sure they do good work in some cases but personally I'm not impressed.
Our Council does not recognise the existence of our allotment society ( which was formed at their request! ) for example they will not talk to us or meet us and say they will only deal with individual plot holders but requests and letters are generally ignored.
They recently put up rents for new plot holders by up to 600%
My association is already affiliated to NSALG and now the Council has also affiliated
NSALG cannot understand why we are so upset that the Council is allowed to affiliate when
1, they treat us ( who are existing members of NSALG ) with such contempt and,
2 the Council share none of the aims of the NSALG .
NSLAG are not even interested in attempting to mediate on our behalf.
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What I don't like is that if you are in dispute with your allotment committee you are refused help even though, via your rent for the plot, you are paying for membership. If the Committee ask them for advice regarding a perceived problem with a tennant a file is kept on the tennant.
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What I don't like is that if you are in dispute with your allotment committee you are refused help even though, via your rent for the plot, you are paying for membership. If the Committee ask them for advice regarding a perceived problem with a tennant a file is kept on the tennant.
any particular dispute with you committee?
allotment tenancy agreements are fairly straight forward, with little room for ambiguity, so there shouldn't really be any problems between committee & tenants?
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If that happens, it's a sign that there's something badly wrong somewhere.
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Our allotment site is with the NSALG, we believe they give us a huge amount of support. We have just completed a long drawn out process with the council who wanted to significantly increase our rent, and wanted us to sign up to a tenancy agreement that we did not really agree with. Allan Rees, was absolutely magnificent, with his support in our local allotment meetings and the meetings we had with the local council. The legal support allowed us to reduce our rent to an acceptable level and allowed us to sign an agreement that we all agreed on. Thanks again to NSALG and Allan Rees. We also get our insurance through them
David
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Our allotment association is so new that we have yet to set a fee structure! As a result we are having to take a very hard look at what the different national societies have to offer us. One thing that has become apparent is that due to our local circumstances the vast majority of the fees our members could end up paying would be for affiliation and various insurances. This is of concern to us as we have to convince plotholders to part with their subscription money and for most there will be little apparent direct benefit to the individual member. (The problem for us is that our plots we have not had an association for many years and even in past times seemed to have got along well enough without one.)
I know that all the arguments about contributing to the big picture or having support in times of trouble, something I agree with .. at least to some extent. But I really need some convincimg arguments to put to our people at the AGM on how they will materially benefit.
PS Many seed companies will deal direct with allotment associations, including Kings (at a much better discount than advertised on the NSALG website)
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the Kings seeds scheme as well as giving discount to the tenants, also gives discount to the association
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Not sure of this year's figure - it was down a bit - but last year we raised £60 for the Society. A nice little earner!
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I was surprised to see this thread still going strong.
I would like to say that since starting this thread the NSALG has stuck a foot into the 21st century and now puts the magazine online so we can give our members a password to see it. Now we have more members we get more magazines which we can target at the people who are not online. The King's order was fairly well taken up though it's 'complex'?! order form seemed to be too much for most people and I spent hours sorting it out before sending it off...not one person spotted that they got a discount and one lady ordered 4 potato varieties 25KG of each...fortunately I knew her plot was 1/4 the size of my own and queried that!
As to insurance well last year we paid a small fortune just to run out Flower and produce show this year our insurance will be cheaper and the best deal we could find as well.
Karen Kenny is visiting us next week and will give a talk to interested members.
At my insistance we checked out other associations and found that this was the best choice. The free insurance included with SWCAA was not extensive enough to cover our needs for Association events through the year.
So though I was a bit negative when I first posted regarding NSALG i'm am now much more positive about it's benefits.
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Pleased to hear it... glad it suits your site Kea... :)
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Hi Kea,
say 'hello' to Karen from me!
Tony, General Secretary, Great Yarmouth & Gorleston Allotments Association.
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coincidence?
the Allotment magazine (box full) just arrived!!
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Any moment now then....I guess they're not going to fit thru' the letter box this time...so it'll be a trek down to the post office to collect them if they come tomorrow :(
I might get to say hello...my guess is that as i'm the lowly Treasurer I won't get a look in as i'm elbowed aside by the others.....only joking!!
Do you think she prefer's chocolates or wine??
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Any moment now then....I guess they're not going to fit thru' the letter box this time...so it'll be a trek down to the post office to collect them if they come tomorrow :(
I might get to say hello...my guess is that as i'm the lowly Treasurer I won't get a look in as i'm elbowed aside by the others.....only joking!!
Do you think she prefer's chocolates or wine??
chocklit is always a winner!
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I was surprised to see this thread still going strong.
I would like to say that since starting this thread the NSALG has stuck a foot into the 21st century and now puts the magazine online so we can give our members a password to see it. Now we have more members we get more magazines which we can target at the people who are not online. The King's order was fairly well taken up though it's 'complex'?! order form seemed to be too much for most people and I spent hours sorting it out before sending it off...not one person spotted that they got a discount and one lady ordered 4 potato varieties 25KG of each...fortunately I knew her plot was 1/4 the size of my own and queried that!
As to insurance well last year we paid a small fortune just to run out Flower and produce show this year our insurance will be cheaper and the best deal we could find as well.
Karen Kenny is visiting us next week and will give a talk to interested members.
At my insistance we checked out other associations and found that this was the best choice. The free insurance included with SWCAA was not extensive enough to cover our needs for Association events through the year.
So though I was a bit negative when I first posted regarding NSALG i'm am now much more positive about it's benefits.
I think it is good that it is still going strong, some of the recent posts have been more positive about NSALG and that is good.
As our site has moved to another organization I am watching with interest as nothing stays the same.
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1 magazine!!!
The problem is people take such a long time to pay their subs but they did last year so technically the majority were still members anyway. Obviously NSALG only counts the year as starting at one point and we took out membership in December with 10 people then paid another chunk in February which has happened again this year though the second chunk went off welll before the magazine arrived...2 1/2 weeks. 54 members and 1 magazine :(. Usually the first to borrow never returns it.
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our site Secretaries leave them in the site huts, folk can sit out of the rain and have a read.
give them a call, ask for more magazines.
do you access the magazine on line?
we collect subs in Jan / Feb, and send off payment in March / April
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We have our agm at the end of October. We then joined NSALG last december with the minimum 10 members to get started. Unfortunately people are slow to join/pay their subs so the next batch were joined in February last year. This year people paid a bit faster and I sent off subs for 10 (mainly committee members who are faster to pay subs) in December in response to NSALG's reminder. Then the next lot of 40 by the 3rd week of January, I expected that we'd get more magazines than one as we paid membership for people as late as April so technically they're still members but obviously only the December payment counts. We can access it online but have some people without computers, not many. Mind you I wouldn't read it online.
Karen Kenny visited and we found what she had to say VERY interesting. Our Town Clerk maybe in for a difficult time this year :)
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This is an interesting one.
We pay NSALG in December, so the list I send is - obviously - the current membership. But our fees are due on January 1st, with a cut-off date of the AGM which this year was on January 31st. But two plot-holders have given up; are they still members? And what about any new members who join during the year? Do I really have to contact NSALG every time I sign up a new plot-holder? If we all did that, they'd have to take on extra staff!
As I see it, the Society is affiliated, and at the time of affiliation for this year we had 90 members. In December, we re-affiliate and there'll be a slightly different figure. Surely that's good enough? Or am I missing something?
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Kea, have you 'phoned Donna @ NSALG about this matter? I know they usually issue 1 magazine per 10 members ( well they do to our association)
rgds, Tony
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I attempted to ask Karen but she misunderstood and someone decided to talk over me at that point...we'd only got the magazine about a day before ...over 2 weeks since I had registered another 44 members but even so most of those where members from last year and another 20 paid in April so effectively they're NSALG members until then. Though the number of magazines we received (1) suggests they only count the ones registered at the point we registered first.
I'll have to contact them and find out...it's going to take awhile for the one mag to pass around about 80 odd members!
Well we have found the Town Plan 1974 which tells us that 6 hectares was put aside for Statutory Allotments, when we were talking to Karen we didn't know whether our site was statutory or temporary as the Town Council appropriated a large chunk to extend the cemetery. Anyway I did some research and discovered that they shouldn't have helped themselves. We've got 60 plus on the waiting list and we lost half our site...Hmmm!!!
Plus the TC groundsman are using a plot to burn waste from all over town on it...again this is another oops! for the TC...the look on the Town Clerks face at our next meeting is going to be priceless!
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Well speak of the devil....just typing away while my husband is listening to Radio 4 in the next room and suddenly I hear our Town Clerk speaking. Friend of my son has just made history by becoming the youngest town councillor and was being sworn in by TC.
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I'm impressed he got elected as an independent, Kea.
Less so if they appropriated Statuatory Allotments... get the NSALG onto them straight away... >:(
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St Ives made history at the last Town council elections by going against the grain at the last local body elections by ousting the Tory candidates (who had held the balance of power here for ever!) in favour of mainly Independent candidates. This was because the tory council was going to sell off our Corn Exchange and the town got very cross about it.
Unfortunately two of those independant's have had to retire due to ill health and one has shown his true colours (blue) at the following national elections. Fortunately the replacement, Tom is also independant.
My son is Chairman of the youth town council...he might have stood if he had been 6 months older. Tom's Dad is on our Allotment Committee, though he doesn't have an allotment.
It's the Town Clerk that pushes stuff, the councillors would do as she says if we didn't constantly lobby them. We managed to reduce the proposed allotment rent increases recently.
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I heard the piece on R4, well done to the young man!! I was bemused that he was warned about what he could and couldn't put on Facebook / Twitter!!
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I heard the piece on R4, well done to the young man!! I was bemused that he was warned about what he could and couldn't put on Facebook / Twitter!!
Yes that is the Town Clerk who gave the warnings...she often amuses us (sic)!
Well the bad news is I've looked through records and found that no one was on the ball and the change of Statutory Allotment land to cemetery was applied for and allowed by the secretary of state before the existence of our allotment association.
So with 3 large new housing estates currently being built and no new allotment provision plus 60+ on the waiting list that is one big fail :'(