Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: OllieC on December 01, 2009, 10:15:08
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Could someone please clear this up for me... Have the rules regarding racially offensive jokes been changed and if not, are we all allowed to break the forum rules now, or is it just the mods?
This is not a wind-up; something was posted in clear contravention of the rules (and causing upset to a number of members) and since it is impossible to have more than 1 set of standards I think we would all benefit from clarification.
My question has nothing to do with whether or not the joke was funny or in bad taste, or even who posted it, I would just like to be told what is and isn't acceptable.
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good point well put ollie,from where i stand,as long as you are a mod you can post what you like without apology,correct me if im wrong someone,but then,this thread could just be locked couldnt it,hence avoiding an apology
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I cannot find any of the rules. Where are they? Are they the rules that a few PC bullies think we should abide by?
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Here you go (http://www.dimplestheclown.com/Clown_Commandments.htm) Pogo.
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The watershed rules are here:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,1598.0.html
You may find it difficult to find anything in the watershed that sticks to them.
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??? Apology..... for what exactly ?.
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for your info, ACE
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,1598.0.html
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Ah, right, no jokes then, Although I do like the DO NOT READ THEM IF YOU ARE OFFENDED. Also it down to the moderator what gets through. Not the PC police!
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This purpose of this board is as the name suggests.
If you are offended by anything in the board then please do not read it.
Not rocket science is it.
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The link regarding trolls doesn't work - the site it links to has been discontinued. Perhaps there should be a link to the wikipedia definition.
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Timothy Campbell's article about internet trolls which the link originally pointed at is now located here:
http://www.alpharubicon.com/trolls.htm
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Cheers for that Baccyman, that's completely different from what I 'conjured' up after being accused of being a 'troll', seems like some folk 'flip the script'.
Love to read the definition of a 'bully' too.
Get confused on here sometimes.
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Too many pc bullies on here now, if some of you have so much time on your hands trawl back in Watershed and see how many racist jokes there are and see how many comments you pcers have made not many I reckon. Some of you need to get your head out of your arses and get a life its a JOKE you numptys. :( :( :(
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I don't get the troll stuff - are people saying I'm a troll? Slightly odd if so. I am asking a question about what is and isn't acceptable...
So if you think that moderators should set an example of MODERATion by avoiding upsetting people of a different race, you're a pc bully? If that really is the case then this is the wrong place for me.
The joke didn't offend me in the slightest, although it was rubbish. Double standards do bother me though, and I don't see any harm in asking for clarity.
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I don't get the troll stuff - are people saying I'm a troll? Slightly odd if so. I am asking a question about what is and isn't acceptable...
So if you think that moderators should set an example of MODERATion by avoiding upsetting people of a different race, you're a pc bully? If that really is the case then this is the wrong place for me.
The joke didn't offend me in the slightest, although it was rubbish. Double standards do bother me though, and I don't see any harm in asking for clarity.
Hence my infrequent visits - Nick Griffin has taken over the asylum.
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The troll stuff is about a broken link in the watershed rules not about you.
The only person that can clarify the forum rules is Dan it's his site so he sets the rules. The rules should apply to everyone regardless of their status.
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I don't get the troll stuff - are people saying I'm a troll? Slightly odd if so. I am asking a question about what is and isn't acceptable...
So if you think that moderators should set an example of MODERATion by avoiding upsetting people of a different race, you're a pc bully? If that really is the case then this is the wrong place for me.
The joke didn't offend me in the slightest, although it was rubbish. Double standards do bother me though, and I don't see any harm in asking for clarity.
Hey, Ollie I never called you a troll ::) ::) ::) ::)
I was just pointing out that there was a dead link in the paragraph about trolls in Dan's post about watershed rules. ::)
I read jokes in the watrershed, some I find funny, some offensive. But they are just that - jokes. Don't forget there is a warning, don't go there if there is the possibility you might be offended.
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I know this is a bit off thread, but does anyone else read Shazia Mirza's articles in the Guardian magazine? This one from a few weeks back gives a view on offensiveness (or not) of jokes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/nov/07/offensive-shazia-mirza (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/nov/07/offensive-shazia-mirza)
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When I am made aware of a 'non PC joke' I review it.
While I do not find them in anyway funny (sorry) and some are questionable from a taste perspective I have not found many which are out and out racist.
Continue to report them, I will continue to review them.
The same rules do apply to everyone.
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How was it racist when no race was mentioned in the joke? Nor was any mention made of religion so not offensive in that way. A call centre was mentioned in Pakistan, my white,christian brother in law is a call centre operator in Pakistan.He lives there because he likes it and hates Britain and all of it,s political correctness.He could have been the one leading the cheers!!
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That makes nice reading Caroline, but that is because most of the readers replys are right up my street. I have lost count the times the jokes been on me. I laugh with them. Unfortunatley some people have suffered from taunting because of colour, size, religion etc so they will not agree with her. but there was one little voice in there who I will quote,
'I share the view that offence is taken rather than given'
Says it all for me.
Hence my infrequent visits - Nick Griffin has taken over the asylum.
And if that ain't insulting I don't know what is.
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I prefer a comedian that's funny...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo
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Well one thing is for sure....the so called joke that was posted has set a lot of the members at each others throats.
Maybe that is reason enough not to post this stuff ??
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I'll come back on some of the points in here when the footie has finished but in the meantime can someone please explain to me why the 'joke' in question is funny?
G x
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Well one thing is for sure....the so called joke that was posted has set a lot of the members at each others throats.
Maybe that is reason enough not to post this stuff ??
Couldn't agree more. Where's the love gone? :)
Also @ OllieC-nice clip!
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"Being offended is not like having cancer or rabies; people don't die of offence. At most, your feelings will be wounded, you will feel displeased or angered, but have a cream cake and watch some X Factor and it will all be OK."
Brilliant. ;D
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Couldn't agree more. Where's the love gone? :)
I would stay off of on here friday then. We all have a shout and a snarl at each other on our friday debates. But it has to stop at tea time. so we can get ready to go down the pub. It ain't my round this week, cost me a fortune last time.
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I'm up to pay for a round on Friday all welcome of course.
I've heard I should come along and prove I'm not a 'troll' ;D
Thank goodness I wont be around for the Friday deabte. :)
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Well one thing is for sure....the so called joke that was posted has set a lot of the members at each others throats.
Maybe that is reason enough not to post this stuff ??
Couldn't agree more. Where's the love gone? :)
Also @ OllieC-nice clip!
hear hear
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Well, I said I'd come back so here goes.
This purpose of this board is as the name suggests.
If you are offended by anything in the board then please do not read it.
Not rocket science is it.
Easier said than done if you chose to read the forum via 'show unread topics' or 'view lastest posts'. I've now learnt that one can block boards so that seems like a possible solution, if a bit drastic, but it doesn't tackle the issue of posts which break the house rules.
When I am made aware of a 'non PC joke' I review it.
While I do not find them in anyway funny (sorry) and some are questionable from a taste perspective I have not found many which are out and out racist.
Continue to report them, I will continue to review them.
The same rules do apply to everyone.
Thanks for the clarification, Dan. So 'jokes' need to be blatantly racist etc in order to be removed. Have I got that right?
It seems to me that it's all down to subjectivity, as are so many things in life of course. For the record I was not offended by the 'joke', I was appalled and angry at its insensitivity on so many levels and extremely concerned about being associated with a forum where 'jokes' of this nature are considered acceptable.
G x
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Well said Georgie
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thanks georgie,you so eloquently put into words what im trying to say (not for the first time)
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There is too much PC crap on some threads at the moment. The jokes are exactly that - jokes. Not directed as personal vendettas, some people are so touchy and too PC. If people are easily offended then they should not read threads that have a clear headline warning. (Is this where I get kicked off ::) ::))
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There is too much PC crap on some threads at the moment. The jokes are exactly that - jokes. Not directed as personal vendettas, some people are so touchy and too PC. If people are easily offended then they should not read threads that have a clear headline warning. (Is this where I get kicked off ::) ::))
Spot on, the joke in question wasn't funny but people are way too PC these days.
Three black blokes walk into a bar........
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There is too much PC crap on some threads at the moment. The jokes are exactly that - jokes. Not directed as personal vendettas, some people are so touchy and too PC. If people are easily offended then they should not read threads that have a clear headline warning. (Is this where I get kicked off ::) ::))
You are entitled to your opnion. But given your opinion, I reckon we are going to have to agree to differ.
G x
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There is too much PC crap on some threads at the moment. The jokes are exactly that - jokes. Not directed as personal vendettas, some people are so touchy and too PC. If people are easily offended then they should not read threads that have a clear headline warning. (Is this where I get kicked off ::) ::))
Spot on, the joke in question wasn't funny but people are way too PC these days.
Three black blokes walk into a bar........
I'd be interested to know which members of society you don't think deserve respect, Mick.
G x
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The term "pc" covers an awfully large range of subjects though. If being "politically correct" means objecting to jokes that mock disability or use race as a punchline then I don't really mind being pc. I'm quite proud of it. I love comedy and the way it pushes boundaries but there is something insidious and damaging about these little "I called it a mosque" type jokes. (I know it is meant to be a joke, as georgie said, it's subjective, and I don't want to get all preachy, I've been trying so hard not to post here but I have to!)
The fact is these jokes support the "we'll have sharia law soon, they're taking away christmas, did you know they've banned baa baa black sheep in play schools" way of thinking. None of it is true, it's scaremongering by the media and the BNP and people just get sucked in. Don't go there-it's the dark side.
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they're taking away christmas, None of it is true,
Thats all way off topic but, tonight I went to the switching on of our local "seasonal lights". maybe thats another topic.
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I don't think it is 'off topic', sorry, maybe I wasn't clear but I was typing then cutting most of it out to not waffle or rant.
I was explaining why I feel these jokes are not really on. I said, to use my quote correctly - The fact is these jokes support the "we'll have sharia law soon, they're taking away christmas, did you know they've banned baa baa black sheep in play schools" way of thinking
They are borne from prejudice based on things that have been said, usually in the media and it's very sad. On reading my post again I think it's pretty clear what i meant to be honest. I hope you had a nice time at the lights. We had wallace and gromit at ours. How's that for off topic? ;D
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For Gods, sake give it a rest ,or is that not PC now
It goes on , & on , & ON , & on. get a life some of you.
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The problem is Rosebud that some people are offended and you can not get away from that.
It is not a question of getting a life.
I do not understand how a moderator who ever that may be can post what they know is dodgy stuff can then sit in judgement on other peoples posts.
How can they say a poster has gone against the rules and then in the future accuse others of the same thing ??
I do not think SL has thought this one through properly.
Dan is obviously protecting SL with his comments but they do not make much sense to me.
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I accept that some people do become offended by things and I also become offended by things. I've been offended by things posted on A4A in the past and I'm sure I will again. I posted a joke which some people found to be in bad taste and other people did not. When one looks at the rules, it's easy to see that they are broken on a regular basis and yes, I admit, my joke fell into that hole. Am I going to apologise? No, I'm not. Will I do it again? No, I won't - although these days I'm sure even the stupidiest joke that was once thought funny will now offend someone. If I post a knock knock joke, someone will no doubt stick their oar in and say I'm having a pop at salesmen.
Dan quite clearly stated at the bottom of his post that the same rules apply to everyone, so no, he wasn't protecting me, btw.
I'm all for people speaking their minds but again, I urge that this now gets put to sleep because members are just having a pop at each other which achieves nothing but upset (and then I will lock and move the thread because it's just not worth it)
And btw, if you all really do want to stick rigidly to the rules, that's not a problem with me but it does mean that threads will disappear from the watershed left, right and centre :P
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I woulden`t be so angry if people had not made such a fuss , there are worse jokes than that one that have been in the watershed, just go back some. No offence was intended we are just not the country we used to be now we must not say BOO!! to anyone who is not English all the aggro is blown up because so many people have to jump on the PC bandwagon.
I wish SL would give up , but then of course that would be wrong with the happy clappy crowd. They want there pound of flesh.
This site used to be a joy to visit, wish so many of us could say that now.
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"And btw, if you all really do want to stick rigidly to the rules, that's not a problem with me but it does mean that threads will disappear from the watershed left, right and centre"
Zero tolerance on discrimination. Jokes against people due to their race, religion, sexual orientation or disability will not be tolerated. Any offences will get an otherwise worthwhile post moderated or deleted.
Not much point in saying all this if it is then ignored is there?
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so sam,you are threatening to lock a thread,anyone else ever heard of this?? the reason people are upset is because of your original post,surely you must take some responsibility for that?
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Grawc, I said that semi tongue-in-cheek - I guess not the time for humour :-[ Even as a semi-mod, I don't think it's my place to continually move threads because up until now Dan has never stepped in and locked/moved anything from the Watershed (well, maybe once or twice) and I don't think he'd be very happy if I became trigger happy with members posts (which I dont want to do anyway)
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I do not understand how a moderator who ever that may be can post what they know is dodgy stuff can then sit in judgement on other peoples posts.
betula explain to me why it was "dodgy"?
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You know perfectly well what I mean so come off it
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This is silly. Some of us were offended by the joke and said so,for that we seem to have been cast as killjoys. Why aren't we allowed an opinion all of a sudden?
I was upset by the Samaritan link and said so.Why that attracted such comments as were posted I don't know. I have posted dodgy stuff in the past, and have found that a sorry to those who were offended was all it took to restore things to normal. SamLouise you alone are making this worse than it already is by refusing to apologise and threatening to lock the thread once again.
All you had to do was say sorry to those who were offended and this wouldn't have got so bad. You must have known that the joke would get a reaction when you posted it.
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Yes I agree with that...I have slipped up in the past and in the end have decided to apolagise .
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Back to the original joke - are any of you Pakistani?
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Maybe we could just miss out the offending part of a joke? ;D
'Does my bomb look big in this'?
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Back to the original joke - are any of you Pakistani?
I was wonderingthat. although I guess some Pakistani people would be offended and some wouldn't. But also that if a poster was aware that there were people of any particular race on the forum, they would be less likely to post such a joke.
Please can we get someChristmas cheer and close this thread now? ::)
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It's about tolerance - how much should we tolerate people with different views (and senses of humour!) to ourselves, and also those who like to push the boundaries need to be tolerant of those who are different to them.
If someone is offended by something, they should be able to say so without being called a pc bully, or told that they need to remove their head from an orifice. Equally, if someone likes the ruder end of comedy (and I'd include myself in that), they should be able to share that comedy with like-minded individuals...
There are jokes that I would share with my Muslim friends that I would never dream of posting on a public forum, plenty far worse than ends up on here. But it is different when you're face to face with people who know you. People are still beaten up or killed for being different in the UK, and that is why when we post anything which is even vaguely racially insensitive we are adding insult to injury. You don't know who'll read it, and they don't know that it's just harmless fun.
I was brought up to say sorry when I've accidentally upset someone, even if it's by mistake, but I guess again that's different strokes for different folks. I guess people should do whatever they feel is right. I don't think this has really been resolved, but I do think we should be able to talk about things without the mud slinging, and mostly we have in this case.
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Back to the OP and the question asked: Dan, the Site owner, replied (the bold emphasis is mine):-
When I am made aware of a 'non PC joke' I review it.
While I do not find them in anyway funny (sorry) and some are questionable from a taste perspective I have not found many which are out and out racist.
Continue to report them, I will continue to review them.
The same rules do apply to everyone.
Of all that is offensive here or in the Watershed, I find the remark "Dan is obviously protecting SL with his comments but they do not make much sense to me" caps them all. >:(
So here I want to thank Dan the Man for starting and maintaining Lotties4all for us all and I'm surely not alone in finding that remark an unfounded slur on him.
To the joke in question, posted in Watershed, clearly headed "A Joke NOT for the easily offended"...well, it clearly offended some who read it and still decided to comment both in the Watershed and then dragged it here to continue. I really do wish that Watershed stuff is kept to The Watershed, including the OP here.
Lishka
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the thread was *dragged * here as you put it,because the mod who posted the so called joke decided to close the original thread rather than let us continue to discuss it,or comment on her last comment,and is now threatening to do the same,free speech?
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The original thread was locked so it was a bit hard to discuss it there.
It's not been "dragged" here, it is about overall standards & moderation so this is the right place.
It is not a slur to suggest that someone is protecting someone. Everyone should protect people they care about.
Locking this 'cos some people would rather argue than discuss. Shame.