Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: shirlton on October 21, 2009, 14:38:46
-
When we cleared the squash plants we found a squash that was the same colour as butternut about 2/3rds the sive but shaped a bit like an acorn. Cut it up yesterday to use in some soup and to my surprise there were no seeds. Wish I had known the plant it had come off but Tony had cleared them all out before I saw it. Did smell and taste like a butternut.
-
A seedless squash would be a very useful thing, if only there were some way to propagate it.
-
We have eaten it now and we are still alive. I did think it very strange. Someone gave me a couple of cobnut butternut and had wondered if it was one of those
-
I suppose if a tetraploid and a diploid squash had crossed, the resulting seed may be triploid and therefore might produce seedless fruit, much like a banana. Or the fruit may have been parthenocarpic like a navel orange, I think this does happen in squash sometimes, lots of plants can produce parthenocarpic fruit.
-
Sorry Pet but you have lost me with them big words ;D
-
me too! So I looked up parthenocarpic - and according to wikki ::) it's virgin fruit i.e. fruit without seeds 8)
-
getting a seed less squash is not uncommon.
Most of all female squash varieties like this.
Even in bi gender squash plant it happen from time to time.
As for seedless it is also not uncommon to get immature/nonviable seeds in ripe squash.
-
I've grown a seedless squash a few years back, the fruit was small so was not supprised, just thought that the small ones did not have seeds, although I have a number of small ones this year, and I think they are going to be full of seeds.
-
Thankyou for all your replies
-
I suppose if a tetraploid and a diploid squash had crossed, the resulting seed may be triploid and therefore might produce seedless fruit, much like a banana. Or the fruit may have been parthenocarpic like a navel orange, I think this does happen in squash sometimes, lots of plants can produce parthenocarpic fruit.
Parthenocarpic perhaps, but would a triploid quash necessarily be seedless? Bramleys are triploid, and I'm sure they have seeds, they just lack pollen.
-
I suppose if a tetraploid and a diploid squash had crossed, the resulting seed may be triploid and therefore might produce seedless fruit, much like a banana. Or the fruit may have been parthenocarpic like a navel orange, I think this does happen in squash sometimes, lots of plants can produce parthenocarpic fruit.
Parthenocarpic perhaps, but would a triploid quash necessarily be seedless? Bramleys are triploid, and I'm sure they have seeds, they just lack pollen.
No, they would not necessarily be seedless, many triploids produce seed even viable seed, like bramleys and sweetcorn and some potatoes. However, some triploids fail to produce seed, especially without another pollen source.
-
parthenocarpic
I think that some varieties of courgette are this they do not need a male and so set fruit earlier. I think Cavilli is one.
I grew a fantastic set of butternut squash from a seed saved from a supermarket fruit a few years ago and it also rather diappointingly produced no seed. But it did set fruit amazingly well.
-
...and of course some cucumbers set parthenocarpic fruit too.
-
should we set up another board?
we could have one for ordinary gardeners, and another for scientists? ;) ;D ;D ;D
-
;D
-
my head aches ;D
-
and of course some cucumbers set parthenocarpic fruit too
I grow a cucumber called Zeina that does not need another plant to produce fruit, so presume that this is one as well. Also does not produce viable seed.
They are very useful if you have a lack of pollinators eg early or in a greenhouse or you only want to grow a single plant.
I think it is good to take on new concepts and new knowledge. So please amphibian keep the facts coming.
-
Anyone got any Anadin. ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
should we set up another board?
we could have one for ordinary gardeners, and another for scientists? ;) ;D ;D ;D
Sorry about me, I'm afraid I have quite a penchant for biology. Plants fascinate me, they're wonderful things, their diversity, such as the many gender combinations they have, just draw me in to wanting to know more and more about them, how they work and why they do the things they do. I am still very much an ordinary gardener, and not even a very good one at that. ;D
-
Sorry about me
Please don't apologise.
the many gender combinations they have
??? ???
Looks like there is a great deal more to learn.
-
Looks like there is a great deal more to learn.
Well...
Some plants - spinach, cannabis, kiwi - have male and female plants, these are called dioecious plants.
Some plants - cucumbers, squash, melons - have separate male and female flowers on one plant, these are called monoecious plants.
Some plants - tomatoes, peas, beans - have both male and female parts in a single flower, these are called monoclinous plants.
However, that barely touches the surface, because some plants have both male and female parts but cannot fertilise themselves, others have male female and hermaphrodite forms in their population. Some start male and then become female or the other way round. Some cannot even be fertilised by their own kind and must be pollinated by a different cultivar. The variety is almost boundless, and that's before you even touch on the actual mechanics of pollination.
-
A few years ago I was asked to make a painting of The (at that time) Largest Apple in The World, grown nearby after a late frost destroyed the blossom of much of the Kent apple crop.
When I had painted it whole, with a bluetit on the page to show the scale, I wanted to show a slice out of it to add interest to the page, so the grower cut it (actually, not the Largest One but a fractionally smaller sibling because the big one was due to go to New York to be cast in bronze). He was surprised and intrigued to find no seeds inside.
This is unusual for apples (Howgate Wonder) and led to a lot of telephoning and discussion among experts. I now forget the detail, but parthenocarpic was one of the words being tossed about.
Before opening the apple, the obvious theory was that because most apples were killed off at the blossom stage, the few survivors grew extra large. Finding they also lacked seeds caused a stir.
-
I suppose a bramley type apple that was truly and uniformly parthenocarpic would be very valuable to the apple industry. Apples are reproduced by grafting, so the lack of seeds isn't an issue, but I would think a lack of seeds would make processing the cooking apple easier for the food industry, because it would negate the need to core the fruit.
-
Wow I did ask for that.
I knew about separate sex plants eg Holly and two flowered plants like silver birch though not the names.
Beans however are more complicated. Runner beans are designed for the attention of hummingbirds though bumblebees do the job over here. But French beans are self fertile, so mostly grow beans true to type. Do these have special names, I know them a outbreeders and inbreeders.
-
Wow I did ask for that.
I knew about separate sex plants eg Holly and two flowered plants like silver birch though not the names.
Beans however are more complicated. Runner beans are designed for the attention of hummingbirds though bumblebees do the job over here. But French beans are self fertile, so mostly grow beans true to type. Do these have special names, I know them a outbreeders and inbreeders.
Runner beans can self-pollinate when the insect lands on the keel petal, but this process also results in lots of pollen transfer from other plants. while French beans self-pollinate usually before the flower has even opened. I know maintaining true to type runner beans is far trickier.
I too know the terms inbreeders and outbreeders, I am not sure what the scientific terms are, though outbreeders come in different types too. Some outbreeders are not actually bothered if they inbreed, squash being a good example, it will happily produce vigour if we force it to inbreed, while something like corn and brassicas rapidly decline in vigour if we inbreed them.
-
A seedless squash/pumpkin would be nearly useless to me because the seeds taste much better than the flesh.
I quite like the flesh shredded raw into coleslaw but in any cooked dish I'd rather have a carrot any day...
I'm looking for varieties with big seeds so there's less effort involved in getting a decent morsel, I used to grow Cerrano (big blue Andean) from Chiltern but one year the seeds I hadn't eaten failed to germinate and that was that. Does anyone else have Cerrano? Nobody sells it any more. The seeds were massive and thick - up to 30x20x3mm.
I've read that Big Max and Rouge Vif D'Etampes have big seeds - anyone measure them or have any other suggestions.
The Styrians reckon pumpkin seeds are absolutely brilliant for health and old men's problems in particular.
Cheers.
PS. I've tried the hull-less ones but they don't have the flavour - so often plant breeders throw out the baby with the bathwater - no?
-
This is unusual for apples (Howgate Wonder) and led to a lot of telephoning and discussion among experts. I now forget the detail, but parthenocarpic was one of the words being tossed about.
Howgate Wonder is a massive apple; how big was it? I wonder whether a seedless apple would really not need coring, as there's a lot of rather woody structure in there along with the seeds.
-
A seedless squash/pumpkin would be nearly useless to me because the seeds taste much better than the flesh.
I quite like the flesh shredded raw into coleslaw but in any cooked dish I'd rather have a carrot any day...
I'm looking for varieties with big seeds so there's less effort involved in getting a decent morsel, I used to grow Cerrano (big blue Andean) from Chiltern but one year the seeds I hadn't eaten failed to germinate and that was that. Does anyone else have Cerrano? Nobody sells it any more. The seeds were massive and thick - up to 30x20x3mm.
I've read that Big Max and Rouge Vif D'Etampes have big seeds - anyone measure them or have any other suggestions.
The Styrians reckon pumpkin seeds are absolutely brilliant for health and old men's problems in particular.
Cheers.
PS. I've tried the hull-less ones but they don't have the flavour - so often plant breeders throw out the baby with the bathwater - no?
Shark Fin Squash seeds are used a lot in Mexico, I haven't opened up a ripe one yet, so cannot vouch for size.
-
This is unusual for apples (Howgate Wonder) and led to a lot of telephoning and discussion among experts. I now forget the detail, but parthenocarpic was one of the words being tossed about.
Howgate Wonder is a massive apple; how big was it? I wonder whether a seedless apple would really not need coring, as there's a lot of rather woody structure in there along with the seeds.
Not sure, but I don't core when making jelly, and the core boils down to pulp.
-
I've a good quantity of the black seeds of C.Filicifolia - I think that's the sharkfin isn't it? White flesh and big leaves more like a fig or watermelon than a pumpkin?
They came from a fruit the size of a football but none of them are bigger than 17x10mm and quite thin, less than 2mm but they seem to germinate OK.
They do taste good but there's just not enough inside for that much work...
-
Squash Tromba d'Albenga, has very few seeds and they are up one end, so there is a huge amount of squash to eat before hitting the seeds. They do not keep as long as butternut but have an excellent flavour and crop well. We have been eating one for over a week now. When you cut them they exude sugary beads which then dry to a crust so the fruit does not go off quickly if you use part of it.
I have found Turks Turban have a lot of seeds and very little flesh, though the seeds are not very big. I love roasted pumpkin seeds.