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Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Squash64 on September 18, 2009, 18:50:04

Title: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 18, 2009, 18:50:04: If somebody took on a plot at this time of year, how soon would you expect them to start work on it?
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Flighty on September 18, 2009, 18:55:02: Straight away if the weather's okay. There's always something to do such as digging, tidying up and weeding even if they don't want to plant or sow anything until late winter/early spring.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: shirlton on September 18, 2009, 18:58:19: If they have been waiting as they would have been what with the shortage of plots then I would think that they would start right away. We took one of our plots on in October and it was great. We had time to plant the overwintering stuff and time to plan for the next years crops.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: GRACELAND on September 18, 2009, 19:04:05: start now getting it cleared and set out before the bad weather comes in and winter digging

NOW NOW NOW
:D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: elvis2003 on September 18, 2009, 19:22:17: straight away,no matter what time of year or if the weather is bad
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: BarriedaleNick on September 18, 2009, 19:31:43: Get down and do a bit - my next door plot has just been taken over by a pregnant lady and she has dugg 80% of a fairly nasty plot. It'll be worth it next year..
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Borlotti on September 18, 2009, 19:34:15: Blimey, hope you don't have to deliver the baby on the plot.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 18, 2009, 19:51:37: These four replies are exactly what I think - I would expect someone to start straight away too.

The reason I'm asking, and I know that maybe I am letting myself in for some abuse, is because of the bloke who I wrote about a few weeks ago.

He looked at the plot on Aug 16th and because I didn't have the paperwork with me, I asked him to come back during the same week to do it. He didn't come till 11 days later. I still had a feeling that he wouldn't be able to cope with even half a plot but I went ahead and told him he could have it. (I didn't have the paperwork with me when he came the second time because he didn't let me know he was coming till the day)

He assured me that he would be down during the same week to start work.
Three weeks later he hasn't been even once.

I phoned him today and asked if there was a problem. He said he had been working away for two weeks (out of the three, what about the other week??), but would come down within the next five days.

I am sure my initial feeling about him was right. I can't see him devoting much time to the plot and I have people on the waiting-list who are desperate for a plot.

Just want to add - it isn't a case of me liking or not liking the man. He just seems to be lacking interest and it's driving me nuts.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Flighty on September 18, 2009, 20:08:04: I sympathise!
If he turns up in the next five days then let him have the plot but on the clear, and written, understanding that it's for a trial period (six months?) and if he hasn't worked it during that time then he'll be asked to quit immediately.
If he doesn't turn up within the five days then contact him and tell that the plot is no longer available and tell him why.
I'd also make sure that other committee members are aware of what is happening and what you propose doing.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: elvis2003 on September 18, 2009, 20:09:03: sympathies squash,i have watched people sign their contracts with a sinking feeling that they arent going to work their new plot,and i have always been right. there is nothing you can do here except try not to let it wind you up and hope he does come along and start to enjoy his plot. i would warn against phoning him ya know,he may start to resent that and feel a bit hassled,which ,may in turn put him off turning up.
good luck and fingers crossed his plot gets worked on soon
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: GRACELAND on September 18, 2009, 20:10:04: Quote from: Flighty on September 18, 2009, 20:08:04
I sympathise!
If he turns up in the next five days then let him have the plot but on the clear, and written, understanding that it's for a trial period (six months?) and if he hasn't worked it during that time then he'll be asked to quit immediately.
If he doesn't turn up within the five days then contact him and tell that the plot is no longer available and tell him why.
I'd also make sure that other committee members are aware of what is happening and what you propose doing.

i agree
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: shirlton on September 18, 2009, 20:11:13: Betty, Anyone who looks on your website can see that you and the others on your commitee are really there to help new people get off to a good start and make every effort to meet everyones needs. You are not there to tell them what they can and cannot do. It is a discussion between both parties. I think that the way that your allotment site does concerning potential plot holders is a very sensible way of going about things.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: elvis2003 on September 18, 2009, 20:12:05: i beg your pardon,i misread,so he hasnt signed on the dotted line then?
i agree,6 months probation is a good idea,we do that now too
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Unwashed on September 18, 2009, 21:07:40: Once again: you have to treat this tenant just like any other tenant.

What do your rules say about a probation? Either new tenants get one, or they don't. You don't get to choose. Do the Allotments Act apply to your site, because that limits the scope of any probationary clause to evicting people from outside the parish within the first three months. Even if the Allotments Acts don't apply, a probationary clause might still not be enforceable if it wasn't fair and equitable.

What do your rules say about cultivation? Unless your tenant is breaking a rule you have no complaint, and even then he has to be treated just like any other tenant. If your rules are too strict you're unlikely to convince a judge to give you a possession order, so even though your committee might want every plot to be a showpiece, it's not unreasonable for an allotment plot to be a bit weedy and untidy.

The chap applied for an allotment, and he's met you twice on site and still not come away with his tenancy agreement. He doesn't have to account to you for his attendance, and if he chooses not to dig his plot until the spring then, providing he's not breaking any reasonable rule, that's his prerogative.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 19, 2009, 08:50:37: Thank you for the very helpful replies.

Flighty, I like your idea of a written agreement of a trial period. Do you think something along these lines would work:-

...

Temporary Tenancy Agreement

Plot no.
Date.

I understand that if this plot is cultivated satisfactorily and to the approval of the committee, it will be offered to me with a Full Tenancy Agreement after a period of ...............months from the date of this Temporary Tenancy Agreement.

I agree to abide by the Allotment Rules.

I will not erect a shed or greenhouse on the plot during the Temporary Tenancy.

Signed
Witnessed by
...

How does that sound? Anything else need adding/changing?
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: powerspade on September 19, 2009, 09:06:00: I started my plot the day after I was given the key.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Flighty on September 19, 2009, 09:06:37: Yes that looks okay to me. Show it to your committee and get their approval.
I'd make it for a period of six months as by the end of March the plot should be ready for planting and sowing. If not then it'll be clear that the guy is a time waster, and that the plot should be given to someone more deserving.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: simmo116 on September 19, 2009, 09:10:07: i was given my plot last november and within 2 weeks we had it strimmed and dug over. ;D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 19, 2009, 09:11:46: Quote from: shirlton on September 18, 2009, 20:11:13
Betty, Anyone who looks on your website can see that you and the others on your commitee are really there to help new people get off to a good start and make every effort to meet everyones needs. You are not there to tell them what they can and cannot do. It is a discussion between both parties. I think that the way that your allotment site does concerning potential plot holders is a very sensible way of going about things.

Thanks for that Shirl.
I am probably guilty of being a bit obsessive about our allotments. I want people to be happy there and to feel at home. I want them to look forward to coming and not look on it as a chore that has to be done. Some of our plotholders would have no contact with other people if they didn't come down every day. Quite a few folks still come when the weather is bad because they know that even if they can't work on their plot they can have a tea with their mates in the pavilion.
Of course, there are a few people who don't want to join in with anything, and that's alright too.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 19, 2009, 09:13:16: Quote from: elvis2003 on September 18, 2009, 20:12:05
i beg your pardon,i misread,so he hasnt signed on the dotted line then?
i agree,6 months probation is a good idea,we do that now too

No, purely by chance I didn't have the forms with me.
Do you have a written agreement about the 6 months probation?
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: elvis2003 on September 19, 2009, 09:34:52: its a clause in the tenancy agreement squash
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Sholls on September 19, 2009, 09:47:38: Squash, can I make a couple of general observations? :)

Offering a temporary tenancy to newcomers is perfectly sensible; however, I feel calling it a trial or probationary tenancy may be more appropriate. It's a very small thing, but the latter (trial/probationary) sets a more positive tone, well at least to me. ;)

Quote
understand that if this plot is cultivated satisfactorily and to the approval of the committee
If I was presented with a contract containing that statement my first request would be for a document detailing what constituted satisfactory cultivation. Do you have something to that effect readily available?

Long-term it might be easier to add a clause to your existing tenancy agreement, but as a first step, what your proposing seems fine. Good luck.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 19, 2009, 14:00:42: Quote from: sholls on September 19, 2009, 09:47:38
Squash, can I make a couple of general observations? :)

Offering a temporary tenancy to newcomers is perfectly sensible; however, I feel calling it a trial or probationary tenancy may be more appropriate. It's a very small thing, but the latter (trial/probationary) sets a more positive tone, well at least to me. ;)

Quote
understand that if this plot is cultivated satisfactorily and to the approval of the committee
If I was presented with a contract containing that statement my first request would be for a document detailing what constituted satisfactory cultivation. Do you have something to that effect readily available?

Long-term it might be easier to add a clause to your existing tenancy agreement, but as a first step, what your proposing seems fine. Good luck.

Thank you Sholls, those are both excellent points and things I hadn't thought of.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: cornykev on September 19, 2009, 16:27:30: Best of luck with your decision Betty, but like most of us on here you would surely want to get your ars down there pronto and get stuck in. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!) on September 20, 2009, 12:33:05: I got mine this time last year. Spend a few months digging out couch grass and bindweeds while the soil was workable. Be aware that in winter it gets so heavy it is VERY hard to work. Around November made raised beds (see gallery) and dug in manure etc. Kept digging over to eliminate couch and bindweed in spring before planting. I still have bindweed in beds but its is totally managable now. All hard work but really worth it.

Currently repeating the cycle - digging over beds and digging in more compost/manure and soil is definitely getting there. Hoping for good things next spring/summer.

All worth it - definitely!
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 28, 2009, 19:34:04: UPDATE

I just phoned the man who took the half plot 6 weeks ago but hadn't been down since.

I told him that maybe we had offered him the plot at the wrong time for him, and because we have a long waiting-list, would he consider giving up the plot and going back on the waiting-list until he has more time.

HE SAID YES!!

He said he had accepted the plot when it was offered but thought that sometime in the future when he had less work/debts and more time he would use it. He seemed quite happy to give it up, and agreed to go back on the waiting-list.

You can't imagine how relieved I am! I really didn't want any confrontation with him (or anyone else, lol) and I'm just so pleased that he agreed with my suggestion.

Now, the nice part - phone the next person on the waiting-list and tell them there is a plot for them.........
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: cornykev on September 28, 2009, 19:43:48: I think you'll find its me. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Flighty on September 28, 2009, 19:44:42: It's clear that you're well relieved at how it's turned out, and rightly so.
The most thing important thing when taking on a plot, apart from motivation, is time neither of which it seems he had!
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 28, 2009, 19:47:08: Quote from: cornykev on September 28, 2009, 19:43:48
I think you'll find its me. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*

:) LOL, welcome to Walsall Road Allotments Kev!
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Borlotti on September 28, 2009, 19:49:40: Kev is back from his weekend away. :) :) We want to know all about it. ;D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 28, 2009, 19:51:12: Quote from: Flighty on September 28, 2009, 19:44:42
It's clear that you're well relieved at how it's turned out, and rightly so.
The most thing important thing when taking on a plot, apart from motivation, is time neither of which it seems he had!

I just feel so glad that it's worked out like this and there are no bad feelings on his part. I think he felt obliged to accept it when I offered it to him, almost as though he would be upsetting me if he turned it down!

I phoned the next person on the WL and she was so excited. She said she will come either Wednesday or Thursday to have a look at it.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Slug_killer on September 28, 2009, 20:17:20: When I was first offered my plot, I was told it would be ploughed by the council within two weeks so I could get started.

Three months later I was still waiting.

Not everything happens immediately.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on September 29, 2009, 07:21:35: Quote from: Slug_killer on September 28, 2009, 20:17:20
When I was first offered my plot, I was told it would be ploughed by the council within two weeks so I could get started.

Three months later I was still waiting.

Not everything happens immediately.

That must have been really frustrating for you, I can imagine how you felt.

In the case I wrote about, it was the new plotholder who showed no interest. But it's all sorted now, thank goodness.
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: 1066 on September 29, 2009, 09:04:26: looks like we have a happy ending to the thread and the plot then :D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: shirlton on September 29, 2009, 09:57:24: I think you'll find its me. (quote by corneykev)
Sod off we don't want no bluddy suvverners up ere ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: cornykev on October 01, 2009, 15:47:40: I thought I'd add a touch of class to the place Shirl. ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: Squash64 on October 01, 2009, 17:34:07: Quote from: cornykev on October 01, 2009, 15:47:40
I thought I'd add a touch of class to the place Shirl. ;) ;D ;D ;D

Yes, at least you dressed up when you came to see us Kev. Nice suit!

[attachment=1]
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: shirlton on October 01, 2009, 17:52:31: ;D
Title: Re: How soon?
Post by: cornykev on October 01, 2009, 18:13:52: You can tell its me oop north because I have my hand in my jacket hanging on to my wallet for dear life. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D