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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Digeroo on August 19, 2009, 12:28:14
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Has anyone experience of growing Dwarf beans inside during the winter. I don't like traditional winter veg. Cabbage, leeks etc, but I do eat a lot of beans.
Would like to cut down on my air miles by not buying so many from Kenya. Thought I would plant some now into a bucket and then bring them inside when frost threaten.
How long to you think they would last under a cloche? My challenge is to have beans all winter.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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I have some in that are only at 2 leaf stage at the moment.
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I might join you on this. What variety are you going to use?
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I have several, might give aguilon a go, nice long pods, and perhaps sonesta, got some for 50p per packet last week. Also have some purple king. MAybe a kenya bean since plant not very big. Would welcome suggestions.
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Mine that are in are purple teepee.
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I'm with you in spirit here Digeroo! But not sure if I will actually get round to it tho ;) My dwarf beans have been fab this year, particularly Safari. But I don't think they would stand up to frosts etc. So please let me know what you decide on and how you will protect them
If you do them in the ground and cover them with fleece I would be tempted to heavily mulch them to try and protect them as much as poss?
If you did them in the bucket you could maybe put them in one of those plastic greenhouse thingies from Wilcos?
I think this might be the limit of my ideas ! ;) :D
1066
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I transplanted some dwarf French beans (Purple Queen & a yellow one; I'd need to rummage through the seed box to find the name) into large pots at the end of January, I fleeced the planters for the first week or so using bags (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pack-of-4-small-plant-warming-jackets-fleece-protec_W0QQitemZ120458482954QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_Garden_Structures_Fencing_CV?hash=item1c0be2950a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14), and then uncovered them during the day, except when it was particularly cold.
If I remember correctly, I was eating beans in early April; I'm sure I'd have got an earlier crop if I'd coddled them more.
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You'd still have to protect the rest of the plant but how about an old Eski or one pot inside a larger one with the gap filled with polystyrene granules? The Thermos approach to winter growing. :)
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I hope to have three batches on the go. One under a small Woolies mini green house. Which I can protect with extra layers of old sheets, plastic dust sheets and any old clothes etc. I batch in buckets which I will move outside as weather dictates, and one batch on the window sill in the spare room. Maybe also one batch in the sitting room to be moved when we have visitors. Though I have in the past had cucumber and courgettes there. Does very well - sun one side and radiator the other.
I rather resent that fact the house has a tile roof, it would be amazing to have a glass atrium on top of the house and use the lost heat rising from the house to grow things all winter.
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Sholls - could you have a rumage and find out the variety? The thought of eating home grown beans that early is very temmpting!
And Barnowl - that's pretty much what I do with some of my tender plants in pots in the garden but use straw instead of polystyrene.
It's all beginning to add up :)
And thanks for posting the idea originally Digeroo 8)
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This is a great idea and one I would love to try in my greenhouse, I'm thinking they should be ok if i provide fleece when its extra cold.
but my only wondering is what about pollination, not much bees and insect life around ???.
I rather resent that fact the house has a tile roof, it would be amazing to have a glass atrium on top of the house and use the lost heat rising from the house to grow things all winter.
;D Only a gardener would think like this, i'm loving the idea
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Sholls - could you have a rumage and find out the variety? The thought of eating home grown beans that early is very temmpting!
Rummage complete. :) The yellow bean was 'Polka' from Mr Fothergills; they don't have it listed at the moment, but there is a pic of the packet here (http://www.plantmenow.co.uk/acatalog/ve-dwarf-bean-polka.html). It had a decent taste, but not outstanding; by which I mean not as 'beany' as Purple Queen. My packet is empty otherwise I'd have passed some around. :(
What's everyones favourite dwarf bean? I suddenly feel the need to trawl through the seed catalogues...
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I fancy having a go at this challenge, too. Growing in confidence after the success of my potato bags this year. ;D
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what about pollination, not much bees and insect life around
As far as I know French style beans are self fertile. They come up true to type if you save the seeds. No good trying with runners.
I also remember reading somewhere (so take this with a pinch of salt) that black seeded varieties are more cold hardly than white.
I managed to get a courgette and some runners through -4 degrees C. I have a minigreen house and I covered it with piles of old clothes/blankets and plastic dust sheets, having put several plastic milk bottles full of warm water inside. ACtually doomed the runners a few days later when they got too hot.
I might also put some near to the water butt. Water is rather odd because it has a maximum density at 4 degrees, so the ice forms at the top, and the bottom of the butt will be at 4 degrees until the whole thing freshes, which is unlikely in this country.
I do not think that taste can be too much of a consideration, (the supermarket ones don't taste of much).
I managed to get some Duchy Originals for 50p, so they were dug by a man, who worked for a man, who looked at a girl, who talked to the Prince of Wales. ;D ;D ;D
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what about pollination, not much bees and insect life around
As far as I know French style beans are self fertile. They come up true to type if you save the seeds. No good trying with runners.
I also remember reading somewhere (so take this with a pinch of salt) that black seeded varieties are more cold hardly than white.
I managed to get a courgette and some runners through -4 degrees C. I have a minigreen house and I covered it with piles of old clothes/blankets and plastic dust sheets, having put several plastic milk bottles full of warm water inside. Actually doomed the runners a few days later when they got too hot.
I might also put some near to the water butt. Water is rather odd because it has a maximum density at 4 degrees, so the ice forms at the top, and the bottom of the butt will be at 4 degrees until the whole thing freshes, which is unlikely in this country.
I do not think that taste can be too much of a consideration, (the supermarket ones don't taste of much).
I managed to get some Duchy Originals for 50p, so they were dug by a man, who worked for a man, who looked at a girl, who talked to the Prince of Wales. ;D ;D ;D
self fertile you say. great I'm defo trying some and i also got some black bean varieties that i would be more than willing to sow.
it looks like if I'm successfull dwarf french beans might be a new winter crop for me as i don't like to use them in the summer as the yield is so much less than the climbing varieties.
thanks for posting this idea digeroo.
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I rather resent that fact the house has a tile roof, it would be amazing to have a glass atrium on top of the house and use the lost heat rising from the house to grow things all winter.
D Only a gardener would think like this, i'm loving the idea ...
I agree inspirational !! ;D ;D ;D
Like the idea of growing beans through the winter :D that will please my son !! ... when do you intend to start ?? I'll join you too :)
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I'm up for a challenge too.
Have just sown Purple Teepee.
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Would the polystyrene fish boxes be any good. A smaller one inside a larger one with straw pushed between the 2 as insulation? I get fish delivered from Abel & Cole & have a couple of them. The fishmongers would probably have bigger ones though.
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I am going to give this a try too in my greenhouse. Do I sow the seeds now ?
If it get really cold i could always put my plastic covered 4 tiered mini greenhouse in side my real greenhouse for extra protection.
Duke :)
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That's what I am going to do Duke but inside ths fish boxes if it gets really cold.
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this may be a twit question but if growing in the polystyrene boxes is that to keep the seed and then roots warm or does the actual foliage need to be protected too? I love beans and will do this in my greenhouse!
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I thought it would protect the roots & fleece the tops. No not a twit question. No such thing on this site ;D.
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How cold does it get where you are then ???
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oooooooooo thats a good idea! i know what i am going to do this rainy PM ;D
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I know what I'm going to do this pm - BUY MORE SEEDS ;D
Got me thinking about the plastic greenhouse inside a real greenhouse. As I don't have a real greenhouse maybe I could takeover the spare bedroom, and anyone staying over winter has to share it with some pots of french beans :D
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Seeds bought :-X
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How cold does it get where you are then ???
Thinking about last winter ;) & hoping it won't be that cold for that long.
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So are we sowing them now?
Duke ???
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I found I had more than enough seeds to cover all the windowsills in the entire street so did not go out a buy some especially.
I decided that for me today is a good day for sowing beans. But if everyone does something slightly different that will be great. When I suddenly get the urge to sow beans, I know that it is a good day for sowing beans.
I was originally looking for advice I am rather pleased that lots of people have decided to give this a go. It will give us something to talk about during the long dark cold miserable..... days of winter.
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What l great idea :D I really fancy that. I have a green house also a plastic Jobie from B&Q so i could put that inside the green house for extra protection. What do you think?
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You've certainly started something here Digeroo ;D
I bought some extra seeds as I only have 1 variety that I like at the moment (Safari) and it gave me an excuse to re-stock and to try some new varieties :D
Aggie - Duke is giving the same idea a go, so you'll be in good company !
If it get really cold i could always put my plastic covered 4 tiered mini greenhouse in side my real greenhouse for extra protection.
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Thanks 1066 I'm going to wyvale's to buy some more seeds as i used all mine this year. Can we perhaps let each other know how we get on. We could even set a new trend for dwarf beans in the winter and teach "Gardner's World" a thing or to.!!
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I found some 'Polka' seeds, if anyone wants some there's a thread in swaps. :)
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count me in,
i've also got some safari.
and maybe some polka courtesy of scholls(pretty please)
are we sowing them now?
or on a set date?
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I've found some Golden Tepee at the bottom of my seed box, putting them in today. I can provide warmth, do you think they may need any extra light?
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How are others planning to grow theirs.
I was thinking grow bags, with 2 rows of six and a middle row of 5.
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what do you all think?
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I was going to grow mine in one of my used tomato grow bags. I will mix in some fertiliser to give the grow bag a boost!. I like your idea but I was going to do two staggered rows ~ dont ask me why but I did think about the size they grow to when planted on the allotment. The more different ways we all the grow these beans the better I think. :) I am starting mine off in pots to later transfer to the grow bag. I will be growing *Boston* dwarf beans and Suttons *Speedy* dwarf beans.
Duke:)
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My dwarf beans are usually grown three to a 15 inch pot. (I always assume one from each pot will die, but if all survive they're not too overcrowded. ;) ) They've done well in spent compost, so used growbags with a bit of fertilizer should be fine... I've tried a 50/50 mix of fresh compost & free draining garden soil, but that was less successful.
My challenge for the weeked is to find some florists buckets (none of the local Morrisons admit to selling them. ::) ) or too rummage in the shed for some old rose pots, that way I can have a 'portable solution'.
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I think I'll also use the large pots with spent compost probably 3 pots with 3 plants in each (thanks Sholls!), I'm going to plant a batch up in the next few days and then some more in the early new year
Good luck everyone :D
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I think I'll do the same as Duke, start off in pots then transfer into grow bags. I have some Safari left, and will call into Wyvales tomorrow and see if they have any others, their seeds were half price . ;) When are we going to plant?
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Sholls our co-op give the black buckets away too.
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Tried it three years ago.
They just went black before any frost, presumably due to low temperatures and low light levels.
Not only is the light level about one quarter of the level of the summer, but it is also about half the hours
ie about one eighth of the light!
Commercial growers who buck the seasons in Britain use heat and artificial light, it uses less CO2 to fly them from Kenya - sorry.
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I managed to keep runner beans going until the third week in November a couple of years ago but lost them in the end to frost. Still green and still producing beans until the frost got them.
about one eighth of the light!
Thanks for this ....liverpool. Maybe there will be some bean free weeks.
I sit in front of a special light in the winter to get rid of the winter blues so perhaps they can catch some that I miss.
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So ... did you decide on a data ??? :)
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I'm bumping this up - how are others beans getting on? I sowed Golden Tepee in pots mid-august, they grew well and have inch-long beans on now, much to my surprise. Since I wanted to give my greenhouse its annual scrub I've moved them into the conservatory - tomorrow I'll sow some more because these have grown much faster than I anticipated. It's made me reconsider what I thought I knew about when to sow, though.
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I have one bucket full which are doing very well. Due to a bit of a senior moment I have forgotten which variety they are but hope to tell from the pods. I think they are Aigilon. They are currently in full flower so very pleased. One variety totally failed and one very miserable.
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I have had Cobra dwarf climbing beans on the table for Christmas dinner ,but that was from a sowing in autumn in a cold greenhouse.. There's a lot of messing about protecting them when frost is forcast, bubble wrapping etc.
I am afraid I agree with All About Liverpool, to get em growing away this late in the year the light levels are far too low with the short daylight hours.
You would stand a lot better chance sowing mid January to get some early beans .
But good luck with it if you have a go and make sure what ever beans you are growing are self pollinating ..
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mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.
if i had known the weather was going to stay so mild i would have sowed another batch, might be to late now.
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Maybe too late for Christmas ... but surely if they are in ppots in a cold greenhouse they will grow no matter what ! ?
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Maybe too late for Christmas ... but surely if they are in ppots in a cold greenhouse they will grow no matter what ! ?
Hmm maybe i'll give them another go then.
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I have been following this thread with interest and would love to be proved wrong, but I stand by my comments regarding the light levels.
Why fly them in from Kenya if you can grow them in England?
I had a 400gram pulling of runner beans yesterday. I staggered the sowing and these were put in as an afterthought next to a wire fence in mid June.
We have had no frost yet in Liverpool and the lowest temperature was 6C on the 17th Oct. Despite the warmth the summer crops like squashes are dying off but because of it there are new green leaves on the gooseberries, bursting buds on the blackcurrants, and flowers on the strawberries, - just waiting for a frost to temper their precocity
http://allaboutallotments.com/index.html
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Love the glass roof idea Digeroo - it would also work as ventilation A/C in summer if the extra hot air could be vented - this is what our unlined loft does if we open the hatch.
Nice to see big beefy can-do ideas coming out - here's some more:
If light levels in a cloche are an issue then it would be worth putting reflectors 'behind' (North) and above the plants - old bacofoil stapled to plywood would do a lot of good - I've been thinking about this for a coldframe - if there's only bare ground 'behind' it then you are losing nothing by reflecting extra light into frame and leaving bare ground in the dark. If the reflector is out in the wind then stays and guys might be essential.
This is identical to the method used to create cheap solar ovens in sunnier climes. You don't need moving mirrors - it works enough while the sun isn't too far to the side - and in Winter the sun travels less so you lose less. You can also make the reflector much wider than the cloche to counteract.
Since the sun is so low in winter a reflector should be between vertical and maybe 20 deg max towards the sun - you could have a vertical one topped off with a 20 deg one - or if you have an E-W polytunnel then sellotape the aly to the inside curve - I'm hoping to find time to try this myself.
Frost is probably more significant and though the solar will help in daytime the total fix for nighttime is heatsinks - especially water ones. The best solution is a metal tank - oildrums or old attic coldwater tanks are ideal. Black is better and soot is better than plastic paints for letting the heat through to the metal - I'm going to try burnt cork (commando makeup).
This is what they do in New England where the winters are much worse than ours - an oildrum of water can keep frost out of several sq metres of greenhouse or coldframe.
I've tried this and it really works a treat - but remember to empty the water in Spring (I let it run through dripfeed) or it will stop the frame warming up.
A shedload of drinks bottles will work too but the plastic is an insulator so they don't react as fast.
This is real leading-edge appropriate technology ie. we could and should have been doing it 100 years ago.
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Has anyone experience of growing Dwarf beans My challenge is to have beans all winter.
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best of luck :'(
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Although I didn't try this I just thought I'd report that my two "spagna" bean plants in the big greenhouse are still rampant... but I am loosing some pods to grey mould... :-[
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mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.
Ditto :'(
And vinlander - thanks for the info, I've been planning to make some coldframes (asked a few q's on here in fact) and the idea about using reflective material (foil etc) to increase light levels sounds like it is worth a go. So thanks :)
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mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.
if i had known the weather was going to stay so mild i would have sowed another batch, might be to late now.
Thifasmom !!! first the over wintered chillies then you tortured your worms living on the edge of the compost heap and now this!! :'(
Duke
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Thanks for the info Vinlander I have used foil in the spring for courgettes, but some how did not think of it for the beans. Like the thought of the water butt in the greenhouse. Have one on order and was wondering how to keep it warm.
Water presumably heats up during the day and gives out at night. I put milk bottles of water in my cloches in the spring. I have one bucket full of great looking plants. Seem to have drowned another set.
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mine all germinated then they all keeled over :-X.
if i had known the weather was going to stay so mild i would have sowed another batch, might be to late now.
Thifasmom !!! first the over wintered chillies then you tortured your worms living on the edge of the compost heap and now this!! :'(
Duke
what can i say Duke I'm a baaadddd girl(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/thifasmom/smilies/whip2.gif)
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Some notes on using water as a heatsink:
Water warms up during the day and gives out heat at night like any other heatsink but if there's a frost it has an extra ace up its sleeve.
While any liquid freezes it has to lose a shedload of heat before the molecules can calm down enough to arrange themselves as a rigid solid.
Water is special in many ways and releases more than most things before it can freeze - roughly as much heat as it would take to bring it to boiling point - a lot.
Nothing near the freezing water can drop below zero until all the water has frozen or been locked behind ice - and if the frame is draughtproof and has some insulation this heat can go a long way.
Even during the last terrible winter in a slightly draughty frame I didn't lose a single leaf to frost - and only a thin layer of water actually froze.
Heatsinks can be too large and suppress the daytime warming as much as the nighttime cooling so water has the extra advantage that you can use less to get better daytime response and still get more actual frost protection than the bricks or whatever you would have used. Dick Strawbridge used broken glass - sorry Dick - a smaller amount of water would have been better, easier and cheaper.
If you really want to maximise growth during the winter then you need to walk a tightrope between too much and too little. Water helps here because you can top up as winter deepens and then gradually release it as the weather improves.
The actual quantities have to be trial and error until you get a feel for your frame and the weather. I'm pretty sure I could have used half as much last year but the main thing is to drain it in the Spring. Remember that bottles of water are slightly less responsive than metal containers.
Another thing - there's scope for using your compost heap as the back wall of your frame and even using a rain sheet to encourage the warm air to go inside - or moving the whole thing inside your polytunnel.
One more thing - air movement is important to keep moulds down - a fan is great but how do you power it on an allotment?
Batteries are OK but I'd like to try linking a wind-powered horizontal flue- or anemometer-type turbine outside via a straight vertical shaft to a horizontal fan inside. Allotments are usually windy especially in Winter - but my plants will probably have to wait till next year for this.
Cheers.
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Could you use something like a computer fan wired up to a small solar panel and a battery? It's an interesting idea. I've been wondering about heat sinks myself, and the water idea seems workable (freezing a liquid into a solid always releases the same amount of heat as that required to melt it) and a lot simpler than anything else I'd thought of.