Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: jimtheworzel on August 05, 2009, 19:43:09
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;D
JTW
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I have saved loads and loads of money because I don't go shopping anymore or just quickly for food I can't grow. Shopping is boring, allotment is fun. I don't buy clothes cause it doesn't matter if I wear old clothes at the allotment, and no point in wearing make up or having hair done whilst digging, so I am a happy rich bunny. The satisfaction is in growing the food, and giving it away, thats the main thing, but must admit have spent quite a bit of slug pellets, seeds but apart from that not much. Also save money on holidays as can't leave the allotment, might have a winter holiday next year. ;D ;D ;D
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When you first start an allotment I think it can cost you money. It did us cos we had to buy loads of wire netting and enviromesh, canes etc. Now in our third year we don't have to buy so much so I suppose it is cheaper now. If not then its better
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We have things you never see in the supermarkets... at any price. :-X
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Borlotti, a soul mate here ;D with the make-up, clothes, seed saving (except the hair - don't like the impression of a ragged red-haired sheepdog I can do!). When there's a glut of a veg we just find different ways of using it, if it can't be frozen or jammed.
Linda
PS Winter holiday sounds a good idea, never thought of that as my lads are busy with cricket all summer!
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Some of you might remember I started keeping a tally of what I've spent this year. I know I've missed a few things and I'm up to just over £100 so far and don't plan to spend much more, so if I've saved £2 a week on veg that's ok. If only I could make better compost- at least £40 gone there, plus £20 rent for the plot and £10 on bio control. And I haven't included petrol for the car or the strimmer.
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If you spent the time at McDonalds serving junk food on minimum wage & bought food instread, you'd have a lot more money at the end of the year than if you spent that time on the allotment... I certainly don't do it for the money!
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Quite honestly I don't care. I'm out in the fresh air more days than most and getting plenty of exercise, I'm eating prime produce every day. Why should I care?
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Hello, grawc - lovely to hear from you :)
And by the way I quite agree with you - fresh air, fresh food and exercise and the company of other gardeners!
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I've probably spent well over £1000 on the allotment in the last year, just in little things. But I am a bit of a shopoholic and cant seem to walk past a garden centre without spending at least £20..
Am spending less on veg at the mo, but dont have space for a second freezer, so lots will end up being given away. I love it though, and its cheaper than spending the weekend in the pub!
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Counting just annual expenses I probably spend less than £100 including rent, seeds, manure etc
I have spent quite a bit on 'one-off/longer term' expenses though like a greenhouse, shed and tools...
Overall I think long term I will save quite a bit.
The enjoyment I get out of the allotment is priceless though...
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I do not think that I save money. But where can you get beans picked, cooked and eaten within the hour. Yellow courgettes, golden beetroot, freshly pulled carrots.
But if I had to buy them I would not eat a whole plate full of runner beans. In fact I would not buy runner beans at all.
Am a comparing what I would make do with if I had to buy in the shops or the full value of what we eat. We eat like kings all summer.
A friend of my daughter once said that other people eat a few veg but we eat the whole garden.
I am currently eating beans for breakfast, lunch and tea. Yum
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The straight answer is no. The labour element alone makes anything grown dearer than shops. It does not matter if you are retired or otherwise not working, the fact is that if you can till the land for free, you could do a couple of hours a week for pay. Few people spend more on fruit and veg than 2 hours worth of labour per week.
It is also far too easy to price into the equation the 80+ artichokes and such like but unless you always used to buy like for like they do not save any money because you would not normally spend this cash.
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OH is a manic knitter and made me some Arran jumpers... saving loads of money, no she didn't 'cos at that price I wouldn't buy them... but the principle is the same... :-*
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Like others I don't really care although I'm certainly spending less on veg and have you seen the price of spuds lately? not bought any of those for weeks for a tiny outlay on Wilkos seed potatoes, and now onions, courgettes - price of a packet of seeds a couple of quid at most. Peppers to come soon again price of seeds, same with beetroot, spring onions, leeks etc etc. I haven't spent on anything big apart from a cheap wilko mini greenhouse and four bags of compost. Its all very basic on my plot but hey it seems to be working :)
Lushy x
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Didn't buy spuds at all last year, even threw some away... :-[
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meant to keep a tally of costs when we started,but didnt get round to it with all the excitement! we have recycled sooo much,given a home to a greenhouse and shed(both free) which in itself has saved us what,600 quid? plus tons of free scaffold boards,so dont mind what we have actually spent in seeds/compost/petrol/canes /tools as its mostly been set up costs anyway.
as someone else said,its priceless anyhow
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OH is a manic knitter and made me some Arran jumpers... saving loads of money, no she didn't 'cos at that price I wouldn't buy them... but the principle is the same... :-*
Shh Saddad. I am a manic knitter also and you are blowing out the water my argument/rationale to hubby for buying yarn :)
This hasbeen an expensive year as it has had all our start up costs....will save on compost next year as we now have lots on the go.
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When you first start an allotment I think it can cost you money. It did us cos we had to buy loads of wire netting and enviromesh, canes etc. Now in our third year we don't have to buy so much so I suppose it is cheaper now. If not then its better
I haven't got an allotment but have to agree with Shirl, I spent the most of my outlay 2 yrs ago when i was getting the veg plot started.
after joining A4A in june 2008 the winter seed swaps helped me save money this year re buying seeds and i only really had to buy a handful of stuff and potting compost for seed sowing.
So yes I'm saving money re buying veges, at least i think i am. I shop monthly and would then top up during the moth with veges and bread stuff. I have noticed that my shopping bill over the last few months when I make my main shopping has been reduced by £20 - £30 and since I'm not buying any veges during the month there's that saving as well.
i have a running post on my blog re my savings: http://kellasvegeplotandothermusings.blogspot.com/2009/05/am-i-saving-myself-money-check-in-often.html (http://kellasvegeplotandothermusings.blogspot.com/2009/05/am-i-saving-myself-money-check-in-often.html).
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Last year I kept a rough tally of the veg we got off our 5 rods and valued it at supermarket prices:
2008 Portion/weight Supermarket prices
PSB 24pkts @1.49 35.76
Garlic 31bulbs @30p 9.30
Rhubarb 8 kilo @2.15 32.25
Parsley 1 @1.75 1.75
Beetroot 28 bunch @1.50 42.00
Coriander 4 bunch @75p 3.00
Courgettes 67 @1.78Kg 35.60
Onions 77 @30p 23.10
Runner Beans 17 kilo @4.50 76.50
Potatoes 39.5 Kg @1.00 39.50
Chard 22pkts @1.50 33.00
Cobra Beans 12 kilo @6.00 72.00
Red Kale 10 bag @1.00 10.00
Raspberries 24 punnet @2.00 48.00
Pattypan 28 @2.00Kg 12.00
Lettuce 12 @0.80p 9.60
Rocket 9 bags @1.50 13.50
Turnips 2 Kg @1.40 2.80
Sweetcorn 8 @0.55 4.40
Carrots 1.5 Kg @1.70 3.00
Cucumber 15 @1.10 ea 16.50
Swede 3kg @1.20Kg 3.60
Red Tomatoes 90 (10perKilo) @4.00Kg 36.00
Green Toms 69 @???? ????
Pumpkin 19 @2.00 ea 38.00
Leek 10kg @4.50Kg 45.00
JA 31kg @£3.00 31.00
Cauliflower 3 @1.30ea 3.90
£681.06
I reckon our outlay in rent, seeds, fuel etc at less than £100
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Hmmm, sorry to pick holes but a few observations/questions...
-would you really have bought 31 kilo's of JA's ?! Ever thought of opening a gas power station? :p
-24 packets of psb?!
-If you buy spuds at the farm gate, they're £5 for 25 kilo's - there's £30 I just saved you plus 10 kilo's free...
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When everything is taken into account no you can't save money by growing your own, I owe myself a couple of grand in wages for all the time and work I have done this year on the lotty, I know I'm not going to get paid because he is a right tight ----, ;D
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When everything is taken into account no you can't save money by growing your own, I owe myself a couple of grand in wages for all the time and work I have done this year on the lotty, I know I'm not going to get paid because he is a right tight ----, ;D
You're probably right. But, have you considered that the time spent gardening is time not spent driving (spending money) to the shops (spending money) or to golf, football etc. (spending money). It may work out cheaper in the long run.
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I reckon I save money. The labour element of costs only applies if one would have been working in some other capacity instead of the time one spends on the garden
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On a different plane - I don't, because I pay for a day's rough stuff a week.
However, I just LOVE growing things. And I LOVE things from plot to pan. No excess buying which rots in the Larder. No having to eat before a SBD.
And the trading value of surplus?
And nothing sprayed.
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I reckon I save money. The labour element of costs only applies if one would have been working in some other capacity instead of the time one spends on the garden
agree totally with you there.
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I have thought about time spent and how much it is worth but have then discounted it. It is a hobby - ones with its ups and downs and one that is sometimes (and at times frquently) a chore. But I choose to do it so the time issue is not a cost in my opinion. I do not do a time and motion study when I am walking up a hill in Derbyshire and weekend camping trips can be costly (pub!). i have never costed what I get from the allotment but do sometimes walk out of the fruit and veg section of the supermarket with a smug smile on my face.
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@redclanger.
Off topic but I see you have been listening to the Talking Heads recently (according to last.fm!)
Went to see David Byrne on Tuesday in Southampton - absolutely brilliant.
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When everything is taken into account no you can't save money by growing your own, I owe myself a couple of grand in wages for all the time and work I have done this year on the lotty, I know I'm not going to get paid because he is a right tight ----, ;D
You're probably right. But, have you considered that the time spent gardening is time not spent driving (spending money) to the shops (spending money) or to golf, football etc. (spending money). It may work out cheaper in the long run.
Don't do shops Tesco delivery, would love to be still be playing football although I did not pack up till I was 45, love golf but it gets in the way of mi fishing, ;D
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@redclanger.
Off topic but I see you have been listening to the Talking Heads recently (according to last.fm!)
Went to see David Byrne on Tuesday in Southampton - absolutely brilliant.
That's prompted me - the scrobbler is on my old PC which is sitting awaiting a good sort out in the corner of the room. Did not have it on the laptop because it is the school laptop and it would mean 'Sing a Long for KS1' etc would appear in my list - not good for my street cred! But have downloaded it so it updates my list now. Glad you had a good gig - I am a bit loathe to go an see my heroes now that we have all grown up but am hopefully seeing Super Furry Animals soon.
Sorry - way off topic I know. :-[
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£681.06
I reckon our outlay in rent, seeds, fuel etc at less than £100
But not including the £1000's you could have earned working.
I reckon I save money. The labour element of costs only applies if one would have been working in some other capacity instead of the time one spends on the garden
No. This is not so. The labour element applies if you COULD have been working. If considering profit and loss, the hours spent tending the crops must be compared with the veg you could buy with money earned from working for pay.
I doubt that any of us are working our plots because we are so hard up that we cannot afford £10 - £20 a week for veg. and why do you all insist on comparing prices from ripoff stores like Tesco instead of the true market price in the ordinary shops?
I work my plot because it is a hobby and passion of mine. This hobby costs me some money and a lot of time but who cares? I enjoy myself and that is what matters.
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£681.06
I work my plot because it is a hobby and passion of mine. This hobby costs me some money and a lot of time but who cares? I enjoy myself and that is what matters.
Up with you on that quote Eristic.
Linda
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I have spent £128 this year but have had £180 of fruit and veg so far. I did buy a lot of new seeds and seeds as trials this year. There is ton's of fruit and veg still to harvest through to next spring. This is my first year of keeping a running tally but like others, does not include the costs of hours for labour because it is my hobby. If I did not enjoy it then I would just buy it all from the shop.
I reckon I still have over £800 of stuff to harvest this next 7-8 months, providing the birds do not beat me to them.
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Everybodies hobby or pastime costs money.
Can you get a good return from the outlay on anything other than food.
Eat well and be happy, the costs have me thinking that I should have been growing since the sixties not the ninties. My family have had good food from then and we all enjoy the flavours, sweetness, and colours given by growing your own.
I think that outweighs any cost given over by us.
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I can't put a value on the allotment experience,Friends ,Food,Fresh air,And sanity
PRICELESS :)
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It saves me money.
These days I try to stick to growing what is pricey, or what I am particularly unhappy with the quality of elsewhere.
I have no interest whatever in the wages argument, if I wasn't working my plot I'd be doing some other unpaid activity. Who tots up the wages lost through watching the TV or listening to Radio Four while drinking their cup of tea, or sleeping?
So wages aside, it just boils down to crop values. Some worth growing for money saving are:
Tomatoes
Strawberries
Raspberries
Gooseberries
Blueberries
Lettuce
Rocket
Broccoli
Sweetcorn
Squash
Garlic
Leeks
Courgettes
Peppers
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If you disregard wages from the cost then you should consider that your crops have no monetary value at all, only a net cost. They are not "Food for free" because they require tender loving care and the time involved to produce the crop is of greater value than the crop itself from a monetary point of view.
In order to make a profit from growing veg you would require considerably more land than a few poles or some incredibly high cost produce.
We can all produce fruit and veg worth £x but that is not a saving because in this day and age our time has a price tag too.
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IWe can all produce fruit and veg worth £x but that is not a saving because in this day and age our time has a price tag too.
doesnt that only apply if you were otherwise likely to use time allocated to veg to gaining money through employment? Time I use would have been "leisure" so not potential monetary gain?
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If you disregard wages from the cost then you should consider that your crops have no monetary value at all, only a net cost. They are not "Food for free" because they require tender loving care and the time involved to produce the crop is of greater value than the crop itself from a monetary point of view.
In order to make a profit from growing veg you would require considerably more land than a few poles or some incredibly high cost produce.
We can all produce fruit and veg worth £x but that is not a saving because in this day and age our time has a price tag too.
If I was selling the crops, then I would factor in my wage value, for my own consumption it means nowt to me, their value is their replacement value plus cost of materials.
Profit potential is not an issue here, my allotment is not a business it is a method of saving money.
I'm not going to play this my time has a price tag game. My time is my own to do with as I will. It does not cost me a penny more to spend my spare time on the allotment, than it does to sit on my behind in front of the goggle box. I do not take unpaid leave from work in order to tend my allotment.
Do you add your hourly rate when calculating the expense of your shopping trip out, hell most people don't even add the cost of parking and petrol.
It is time that I am not earning with, whatever I do. Sure you could spend that time in some kind of gainful employment, but you could sleep less and work more too, but do you put a price tag on your sleep.
I'm not going to start totting up the 'cost' of my time, I'm not going to start viewing a day out with my daughter as lost earning potential.
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No.
If you are trying to account for the cost of your produce the time spent actively tending the crop has to be taken into account. Time spent sitting there watching things grow, or yapping with the gang is leisure time. Time spent cultivating the crop, watering, planting and harvesting is active hobby time but that time is essential to the production and therefore should be costed at at least minimum wage, if, and only if, you are trying to calculate the money not spent on food.
I am currently taking home about £50 worth of blackberries per week at Supermarket prices but to me they are just blackberries. If somebody offered to pay me if I gathered a large quantity I would have to cost the profit? after taking my time into account and it would be a large loss to me even though the berries hang there free to take. I have never bought blackberries and probably never will. Just an example.
Some of you are now wondering what I am doing with so many blackberries. 8)
People that see me wonder why my hands are purple. :o
I do gardening for a living (partly) and sometimes the job or customers get me wound up. When this happens I pack up early and go to the plot to chill out. To me the allotment is somewhere peaceful to escape to not something to make money out of.
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No.
If you are trying to account for the cost of your produce the time spent actively tending the crop has to be taken into account. Time spent sitting there watching things grow, or yapping with the gang is leisure time. Time spent cultivating the crop, watering, planting and harvesting is active hobby time but that time is essential to the production and therefore should be costed at at least minimum wage, if, and only if, you are trying to calculate the money not spent on food.
If I was operating a business plan.
The cost of my time is not a cost, it does not affect my bank balance, it does not create an outgoing, it is in business terms voluntary unpaid labour. Leisure time sacrificed to my allotment costs me nothing, forget 'cost' of production, all I am interested in is the money not spent, that otherwise would be, that remains in my pocket.
If it costs me £3.50 for a punnet of strawberries in my local supermarket, and my garden grown strawberries cost me only time. Not sacrificing leisure time because it costs me over £5.00/hour will mean I spend the £3.50, but no-one is going to give me the £5.00/hour for the hours not spent on the allotment. So I'm just £3.50 down.
By this valuing your own time malarchy, renovating a house yourself would not represent any saving because you could just pay a worker the £5/hour that you are allowing for your own time.
I am currently taking home about £50 worth of blackberries per week at Supermarket prices but to me they are just blackberries. If somebody offered to pay me if I gathered a large quantity I would have to cost the profit? after taking my time into account and it would be a large loss to me even though the berries hang there free to take. I have never bought blackberries and probably never will. Just an example.
Again, you're talking about profit, not savings from money not spent. I don't grow my produce to sell, its nominal value means nothing to me. In real terms, to the money I do not spend, my produce is worth what I don't have to spend by virtue of growing it. All this business about cost of time only means anything if I am trying to profit, i am not trying to profit I am trying not to spend.
By your logic it would unworthy to collect and cut firewood if it takes me hours, when I can just buy it at huge cost.
When you cook a meal do you factor in the cost of your time making it, maybe it would be cheaper to get a take away, Clean your house? Takes hours, cheaper to pay someone. Wash the dishes? If it takes even ten minutes, that's a 83p in time, plus hotwater and detergent. Cheaper to eat off paper plates, or just get the take away which saves £5.00 in cooking time, a fortune in shopping time and no need for washing up at all.
I do gardening for a living (partly) and sometimes the job or customers get me wound up. When this happens I pack up early and go to the plot to chill out. To me the allotment is somewhere peaceful to escape to not something to make money out of.
That's fine. I don't garden to profit—increase my incomings—I garden to reduce my outgoings. However, my budget sheet shows I have more surplus cash as a result of gardening, if I stopped gardening my outgoings would go up and my surplus cash go down. It's very simple really.
My time is only money, if I would have been earning otherwise.
Avoiding paying someone else to do a job, is a very basic concept of saving, one that works in scores of applications, from gardening to building, from foraging to making fuel from vegetable oils.
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The value of our allotment is priceless!!
I suffered a breakdown 14 years ago ,spent years in the house, got the allotment and slowly slowly crept back to normality.Lovely people who accepted and accept me , a place of calm and tranquility...and veg as well :D
p.s. i'm not quite normal as my posts show ,but as my signiture denotes ..sanity is overrated! :)
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I think the time=money arguement reflects how materialistic and money orientated you are.
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I think the time=money arguement reflects how materialistic and money orientated you are.
yes!!
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yes!!
No. I don't give a toss how much my allotment costs. It is certain insecure members trying hard to justify continuing with the allotment who are worried about balancing the books. Larger and larger tomes are being written in an effort to prove that their plot is cost effective. These are the people who are money oriented not me. I give away as much as I eat and I eat well but if I was likely to be really short of money for an extended period I would have to work more hours and give up the plot.
Without the plot, most folks here would manage quite well on less than £20 of veg a week and plots take a lot more than an hour or two per week.
Therefore allotments are not cost efficient.
I think some of you are running a bit low on protein. Venison anyone. 8)
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I think the time=money arguement reflects how materialistic and money orientated you are.
I think it reflects how self employed you are...
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I agree wholeheartedly with Macmac that the value of an allotment is priceless to the person it belongs to, and with others that it's not the cost that's important.
As the saying goes we all too often know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
My allotment gets me out in the fresh air, gives me exercise, lets me chat with plot neighbours and the simple pleasure of sowing, growing and eating my own vegetables is inestimable.
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Ah, but the question is not "Do you get value for money", it is "Can you save money...", and the answer is no, you could do something else and be financially better off. I think we're all pretty much of the same opinion - very few of us do it to save money and very few of us care!
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I do not save money.That is a fact.
It is a great hobby.I love my little bit of ground and would be lost without it. ;D
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I think the argument that macmac makes on an allotment being therapeutic is a good one, a couple of people on our site took their allotments on just because of this value, I look at the fact that out of one packet of sweetcorn seeds if they all germinate and produce I have a few £££££'s worth of sweetcorn for a couple of quid, :)
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Do I save money overall in the year? Probably not.
Do I get incalculable pleasure/relaxation/exercise/ mental health benefits/pure enjoyment from the work involved tending my allotment? Oh yes!
Could I save money...(the original question).....probably, if I wanted to run/cost it like a military operation.....but I don't want to! Nor would it be practicable for me, I'm not a pseudo market gardener, I'm an allotmenteer!
So the answer is....no! But am I bothered? No! ;D
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Could we factor in gym fees here? ;D
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£950 a year according to the BBC London News today.
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It's interesting that no-one mentions saving money in this article
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/gardening/a-national-obsession-my-allotment-and-me-1769698.html
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how can you 'price comparison check' on fruit and veg that's literally picked 5 minutes ago?
;)
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Why Redclanger... how much does he charge? ;D
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Could we factor in gym fees here? ;D
or a golf club membership and....we usually bring home something edible :)