Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: ODD on July 22, 2009, 13:26:29
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We are looking and starting plot inspections identifying both strengths and weaknesses relating to the condition of plots and the state of those areas that are the responsibility of the Parish Council.
We could not find a checklist so have drafted our own. This is based in part of the information contained in the Allotment Regeneration Initiative H&S guidance but converted into a checklist. Comments be would be appreciated. The details are at http://www.eagsociety.co.cc/news.htmld
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Wouldn't work for us. Do you REALLY need all of that? Our inspection checklist is 7 yes/no questions.
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Webpage not found ???
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??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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inspections are great when thought out well and impartially implemented without favour.
work only with facts - personally i would avoid an inspection checklist that included qualitative elements because they are subjective and could be misused and could result in conflict - and even construed as as overbearing and fussy
the key elements are all about whether the land is being cared for in an appropriate way, congruent with the allotment society rules.
in the end a plot holder who conforms to the rules must be be allowed to enjoy the use of the land without interference.
dax
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Here's a link that works. I wondered why ODD hadn't just pasted the checklist into his post but, when you read it, it will be obvious!
http://www.eagsociety.co.cc/Inspection%20checklist-plots.pdf (http://www.eagsociety.co.cc/Inspection%20checklist-plots.pdf)
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Cant access just get a "Premium Host" message
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No I just got the same as Barnowl for both links.
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Me too.
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OK. Try this:
http://www.eagsociety.co.cc/news.html (http://www.eagsociety.co.cc/news.html)
scroll down to
2. Plot Inspections
then click on Checklist for Tenanted Plots.
Why am I doing this? ???
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Still get the same nonsense!
How come you can get through, Ceres? What browser are you using?
ODD - please come back and put us on the right path.
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I can see it now. I use Firefox. Try these links!
http://www.eagsociety.co.cc/news.html
http://www.eagsociety.co.cc/Inspection%20checklist-plots.pdf
Both of which work okay when I try them.
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I found it and if you didn't know it already you wouldn't think it was about an allotment, no mention of cultivation or clearing weeds and manuring. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D
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flippin 'eck tucker!! :o
If I was on that site I'd be getting my coat! :)
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I found it and if you didn't know it already you wouldn't think it was about an allotment, no mention of cultivation or clearing weeds and manuring. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D
It asks further down page 2/3 about cultivation, if weeds are seeding and if compost is left for at least 6 months because of e-coli! ???
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How come you can get through, Ceres? What browser are you using?
The link posted by ODD contains a typo. I corrected it and got to the page where I could click through to the pdf. I'm on IE7 and Flighty is getting through on the same links on Firefox. Could it be security settings on your system stopping you, or do you not have Acrobat installed maybe?
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blimey :o :o :o :o :o
It's a bit draconian. I wouldn't like to join a site with rules like that.
They missed something - shouldn't one wash fruit or veg eaten while eating on the plot? And would our mole be considered vermin? So far he's turned the underneath of three plots (and the access paths) into catacombs. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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How are they going to prove that the eggshells are washed? Get the lottie police involved and send them to a lab? ;D
These rules are just overkill
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I read through most of the check list but I almost lost the will to live.
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Who on earth dreamed up that nonsense? All you need is a quick look to see whether the plot is being cultivated to the average standard of the site. If it's significantly below average, or it becomes obvious the plotholder hasn't been around for a while, phone them up and ask whether anything's wrong. No need to get heavy until it becomes obvious that they're just not doing anything, and it isn't going to change.
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I think theres some confusion here. A HUGE proportion of that is risk assesment and not a tenancy friendly checklist. I would certainly use that if you are responsible for insurance and health and safety on your site then fine, Do a risk assesment now and again as seen fit by the respective insurance company etc. However noneed to tell the plot holder unless they are in breach of it in which case a friendly word or if needed a letter explaining what the issue is and why it has to be corrected is in order. Otherwise just tell the plot holder they should be careful of health and safetry etc and cultivate their plot and don't waste water...
Gloves whilst wearing manure> Never seen it on gardners world lol
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It's ridiculous, but it's what the ARI propose. I think they're fundamentally wrong. They assert without any justification that the site owner is responsible for health and safety on the site. If that were true then it could well be prudent for a management committee to undertake such a survey, but it's not, and they shouldn't.
But for hazards in the common areas it's pretty sound. Water butts for example, pose a significant drowning risk to small children so it's good practice for butts to have lids.
The ARI does touch on the issue of tenant privacy - it's an obligation on councils to respect a tenants right to privacy - so intrusive inspections are not allowed, and nor is poking your nose into someone's shed.
Remember that the inspection must be done from the communal paths - no one has a right to walk on a tenat's plot but the tenant.
I really don't like the tone of the inspection at all. It's not a bad idea to encourage the tenant to think about health and safety, but this kind of big brother approach is way too much. Tell the allotmenteers what the hazards are and let them work it out.
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Jeez - I'm running a mile here! This is so not what the whole spirit of allotmenteering is about.
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I agree, this checklist is a H&S led risk assessment, and if it has to be completed without entering the plot or without an hours inquisition of the plot holder to ensure they are 'clearing up their dogs faeces', it is simply an unworkable tool. I particularly dislike the 'weighting' of evidence...good grief. If you do eventually achieve a 'score' for a plot, what will it actually mean!!!!!
As for working out the proportion of the plot that is uncultivated.......well, as someone who does plot assessments on our site I can tell you it is difficult enough deciding if a plot is 2/3rds (our standard) cultivated (or prepared for planting), let alone anything else...... ::)
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All I can say to that list is Blimey :o
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Welcome to A4A "I love Digging"...
Knew Deb would see this thread so I didn't comment yesterday...
Has Cam forgotten where his plot is ? :-X
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I inspect our 2 sites monthly either on my own or with the town council. We don't bother with a checklist. As long as the plot is being cultivated, worked in accordance with the tennancy agreement and not just full of weeds then we are content. Occassionally I need to gently remind plotholders to keep paths clear but thats about it.
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:o
Eek! Our inspections consist of four or more of us (committee members) wondering around the site and generally agreeing if Mr X needs a quiet word or if Ms Y needs a formal letter.
Then we go down the pub!
If we were to follow that checklist we would probably all be out on our ears.
I love "Does the plot holder have soap & towels available for hand washing especially where they have children on site?" Soap and towels!! Are they taking the pish??
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Any such list should fit on an A4 sheet of paper and be double spaced with room to spare!
Why do people try to include every what if they can think of instead of being practical and using a bit of common sense!
Right I'm off to my plot, which incidently would certainly fail such an inspection, to do some digging and weeding.
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I think its rather over zealous! We have plot inspections, but they consist of a couple of reps from the allotment committee wandering round with the site manager, checking to make sure the plots are cultivated and the paths are clear. They do take action where necessary eg if a plot is very overgrown. We have a book where plot holders can list any concerns eg rats. Seems to work for us!
Kitty Katt.
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Still couldn't get it, but I agree with a check list as it makes it a lot fairer, and easier for the committee. We introduced one some time ago which has been very helpful. When you have to inspect 150 plots you need some guidelines. We can send the check list with the ticked boxes to the plotholder who can then know that their plot has too much rubbish, too many weeds, is not cultivated or has crops going to seed on it, or a list of any other things. It is easier for the secretary as she doesn't have to compose a letter especially. Just don't make it over complicated. We have just won best site in the North Tyneside in bloom competition, so we must be doing something right. busy_lizzie
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owch!
this is a joke
someone needs to get real!
please use some discernment here!
dax
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Thanks for the comments, sorry about the problem with the links.
I appreciate that if an inspection is being carried out by people who are sympathetic to the allotment movement and plotholders all that is need is a quick look based on an overall impression. However if the inspection is being carried out by a counsellor who gives every appearance of being anti-allotment and prepared to make quite sweeping critical comments there is a need to remove subjectivity and to target the inspection on items included in the tenancy agreement and what is accepted as good practice.
We have attempted to ensure that it is not possible to just pick on plotholders as any inspection should identify more strengths than weaknesses on an average plot.
There where comments relating to the unwashed eggs shells in the compost heap which attract rats. This one is interesting as I always understood that we should not be disposing of "food waste" on an allotment site. In practice we would only check compost heaps if there was a significant rat problem and where we have done so we found egg shells. We will certainly revise that question.
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Thanks for the comments, sorry about the problem with the links.
I appreciate that if an inspection is being carried out by people who are sympathetic to the allotment movement and plotholders all that is need is a quick look based on an overall impression. However if the inspection is being carried out by a counsellor who gives every appearance of being anti-allotment and prepared to make quite sweeping critical comments there is a need to remove subjectivity and to target the inspection on items included in the tenancy agreement and what is accepted as good practice.
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, isn't having so many questions just going to give someone with a bee in their bonnett an excuse to pick away at things? You could be opening a real can of worms here....
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oops
I predict a riot -
eggshells are a valuable component of a compost heap
and sledge hammers do crack nuts I suppose
dax
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ODD you have posted here for our comments on your lists, we have given you the feedback that the lists are unworkable for individual plot holders and very intrusive and so probably not legal and you still defend your lists.
If you didn't want our opinions and so keep your mind set then please don't ask. :)
I'm not being mean to you when I say that but many, many posters on here are allotment committee members and run their allotments without such 'rules' just fine.
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Ishard's point's a fair one, but I suppose the question is: what to do about ignorant councillors who understand nothing of the allotment movement. My site is managed directly by the council and I can understand the problem. OCD's checklist was designed to control the ignorant councillor. I'd be more bullish - some council's do get to think that they can do what they want, and sadly a lot of allotmenteers believe this too, so the job of the site association is to confront the council and support the allotmenteers.
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OCD's
LOL! ;D Freudian or what?
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OCD's
LOL! ;D Freudian or what?
;)
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And what do you do with plotholders like me who grow plants for seed. The seed is the crop, some to eat and some to sow.
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We educate the councillors and challenge them on every decision they make ie Where did you get the evidence for that? Is that an informed decision? Who is responsible for that decision? Where is it written in any minutes? Do you realise that decision is probably not legal? Do you realise that is harrassment? etc
We make the councillors responsible for any decisions they make and also take the 'flack' from those decisions
Wrting documents as the ones suggested is trying to apease ignorant people, and it never does!
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It does sound like you need to manage the councillor, and the site will manage itself!
Good luck
1066