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Produce => Pests & Diseases => Topic started by: Parsley on October 05, 2004, 10:12:44

Title: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Parsley on October 05, 2004, 10:12:44: Whilst down the lottie yesterday, I was talking to another Ploth Holder, who told me to use Jeyes Fluid to disinfect my tomatoe patch, that unfortunaley succomed to blight.

My questions are

A. Is this O.K to use - I'm trying to be Organic.

B If so, how do you apply it - ie dilution rate.

:-[(I stupidly nodded my head knowingly, when he suggested it.)
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: aquilegia on October 05, 2004, 10:37:02: I think the EU has banned it from being used in gardens (not that that always stops people). It's definitely not organic.

Why not try blight resistant varieties of tomatoes instead?
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: tim on October 05, 2004, 11:32:25: 1. I don't see any need to disinfect??
2. Armillatox & Jeyes are still regarded, by some, as organic?? We always use the former to sterilise the greenhouse & have used it to try to combat white rot.
3. E&OE! = Tim
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: teresa on October 05, 2004, 12:25:35: wonderfull stuff Jeyes, form being a disenfectant to an antiseptic for animals wounds.
You can get it from supermarkets and garden centers check directions on tin. Think mum used one capfull to a watering can or bucket me I never measure just poor some in.
Stinks to high heaven but will clean the soil of grubs like the little black slugs that live under the surface and eat roots. Get a grub and drop it in the soloution and watch it burn up great feeling.
I would term it as organic friendly EU well they ban anything that has worked for years. You will find the old time gardeners use it and many farmers.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Mimi on October 05, 2004, 17:23:16: I love the smell of Jeyes fluid ;D Always means a nice clean greenhouse and pots to me. I just follow the instructions on the tin but if I remember rightly it is about 1 capfull to a bucket. I use it to clean everything outside from the greenhouse to the drains. I think that there was some talk about the EEc in their wisdom banning it but then they decided not to for some reason. I just know that I went out and bought 6 tins when i thought that I wouldnt be getting my hands on it again. ;)
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Multiveg on October 05, 2004, 17:56:14: Mimi - EU rulings don't count as we aren't on the map!
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Tenuse on October 05, 2004, 18:19:25: Yes all of you Welshies are now outside of the Law as you don't exist!!

Ten x
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: teresa on October 05, 2004, 19:02:45: What happened to Wales >:( did it sink or is it floating accross the sea to join USA? :o
To think people draw these maps and others check them they did do a good job :P. Wonder if they are still employed ;)?
Bring back Wales - bring back Wales - bring back Wales
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Mimi on October 05, 2004, 19:05:22: mr mimi says , it was banned so they changed the formula, removing naughty bit so its ok to use new stuff.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: teresa on October 05, 2004, 19:15:12: Oh hope its as good as the old stuff >:(. Time will tell.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Jesse on October 05, 2004, 19:19:59: I bought some Jeyes Fluid a couple of years ago to sterilise my greenhouse, but I never used it as it said that it should only be used where plants are not growing, I had a bay tree planted near my greenhouse and was concerned that the run off would kill it. But have checked on the can and it says it degrades down in the soil and is safe without harming some beneficial insects like hoverflies. But it doesn't say it is safe for all beneficial insects, so I wonder if this means something. All the dilutions rates are clearly marked on the tin should you decide to use it. What about using a blowtorch to burn the soil surface, did someone mention this on a previous thread?
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: tim on October 05, 2004, 19:26:27: As usual, could be wrong. But I reckon they just changed the label to keep it away from plants??

And Wales? Long may it live! Where my father market gardened, mother spoke Welsh & wife called the dolphin, off Solva, for the grandchildren - & it came. = Tim
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: teresa on October 05, 2004, 19:29:02: Years ago farmers use to burn the stubble left from the harvesting to clean the ground then plough it in.
But now they are not allowed to do that.
Dont know about a blow torch but you can get flame guns longer lenght safer to use. I could have done with one last year when I cleaned my lottie.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Mrs Ava on October 05, 2004, 22:02:28: ooooooooo, I love the smell of jeyes also. When I lived with my folks I gardened completely in pots and would water everything regularly with a very weak solution to stop the darned vine weevils. It worked! When I left home, a tin was left behind in dads garage, and long after he had gone to meet his maker Ava cleared the garage out for mum and came across this tin....and the jeyes had eaten it's way out of the tin! The bottom was completely corroded away!! :o
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: rosebud on October 05, 2004, 22:57:08: Jeyes fluid cannot be beaten grew up with it for almost everything, from the lavatory to the garden and everything else in between.
The dreaded vine weeval does not stand a chance.
My mum used to clean the chicken run with it, never harmed the
chickens. I would say go ahead with it. Theres nothing else that will do a good job like Jeyes, its all nanny stuff these days. ;D.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Hugh_Jones on October 05, 2004, 23:04:09: tim is right (as always); both Armillatox and Jeyes are still the same formula as before, the only difference is that neither may now be marketed as suitable for use as soil sterilizers, so they`ve simply been relabelled as being for cleaning patios and cowsheds.

If (perish the thought) I were so criminally inclined as to consider using either of the two preparations to sterilize my soil I would prefer Armillatox - but then again, I would never dream of doing such a wicked thing.

On the other hand, using a flame gun is perfectly legal, and it certainly works with potato blight, although it is best done immediately after the diseased plants are removed and before the blight spores get washed too deeply into the soil.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: tim on October 06, 2004, 09:54:06: hehe - or words to that effect!!!
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Parsley on October 07, 2004, 11:19:50: Many thanks for the replies.

Looks as though I'l have to be quicker of the mark with my weed wand. Should I get the dreaded Bliught next year.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: tim on October 07, 2004, 18:14:47: Emma - I believe that Coca Cola does the same?? = Tim
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Bionic Wellies on October 14, 2004, 15:04:40: Gosh, I am feeling brave today.

First, I must give my mum a ring tonight - just to make sure that she's still there (in Swansea that is).

I watered Jeyes Fluid onto my onion bed a couple of years ago (at the end of the season) when the lotty site was hit with a powdery mildew that wiped out everyone's onions (of every variety). The following year my onions were green for longer than anyone elses and I actually managed a crop - felt dead smug I can tell you.

There is a slight down side to using this liquid - for days afterwards there is a strand urge to take a pee everytime you go near the area.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Hugh_Jones on October 14, 2004, 17:52:35: And what better feed for the onions than that? - especially if you drink Newcastle Brown.
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Mrs Ava on October 15, 2004, 13:26:48: Purchased me a can of Jeyes today. Nine quid! Nine quid for goodness sakes. Do you know how many packets of seeds I could have brought from Tuckers for that. And the tray of gorgeous blue pansys that came with them....well.....necessity to brighten up my front door. ;D Greenhouse now clean and sparkly and wrapped with bubbles and filled with tender plants! ;D
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Multiveg on October 15, 2004, 17:07:04: Quote from: EJ - Emma Jane on October 15, 2004, 13:26:48
Purchased me a can of Jeyes today. Nine quid! Nine quid for goodness sakes. Do you know how many packets of seeds I could have brought from Tuckers for that. ...

YES!!! (well, I can guess - a dozen or more)
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Doris_Pinks on October 16, 2004, 17:32:18: Not that I would ever do anything as wicked as sterilizing my soil with Jeyes, but suppose I was to, what ratio of fluid to water would I use? 35ml to 5L? And when would it then be safe to plant my lettuces in said imaginary bed? DP
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: growmore on October 16, 2004, 18:58:44: Well if suppose you was and I know You won't.
I quote from Jeyes Fluid leaflet Guide to All Year round Garden Hygiene... "A solution of 15ml of Jeyes Fluid per 5 litres of water at the rate of 5 litres per square yard should be forked into the soil as it is being broken down in preparation for planting or sowing.
After 14 days it is esential that the bed be raked over again to break down the Jeyes Fluid that has done its work"..
SO supposing You was Doris and I know you aren't. I suppose it would stand a fortnight before you raked it and set anything in it..

Also supposing I was going to use it on my onion beds now to prepare it for next years crops, As I have always done in the past..But of course I cannot now . ;)
I would dig the bed rough, I would double the strength of mixture to 30mls per 5 litres, and apply it now leaving it to over winter.

Cheers Jim...
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: settler on October 21, 2004, 12:27:24: i will use jeyes fluid as i have been directed by the other lottie holders
i will use it on as much of the land to clean it up n all my pots and canes etc

shiny future beckons 8)
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: ina on October 28, 2004, 10:15:17: We are neighbors and still many things we do so differently and don't know it from each other.

I had never, ever heard of anyone 'sterilizing' soil or canes or greenhouses until I started reading English laguage garden boards. Does the soil really get sterilized with this magical Jeyes Fluid? I can't imagine. Never mind, I plan on 'going British' and clean the canes, pots, tools, greenhouse etc., (anything but the soil) and be a real Scrubby Dutch hehehe.

Now, what is Jeyes Fluid? Could it be something like what is known as Lisol or Lysol in Holland? Maybe some of the expats know?
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Hugh_Jones on October 28, 2004, 18:33:00: Jeyes Fluid is (or was when I last bought a gallon 10 years ago - still got a quarter of it left, but it`s now on its third can, having eaten its way through the previous two) a combination of phenols distilled (I believe) from coal tar. I think the formula is still more or less the same. It is most effective in killing a large variety of bacteria and fungi which might otherwise overwinter on canes, pots, woodwork etc. as well as in the soil, where it will also kill a large number of soil pests as well (unfortunately) as the more beneficial creatures.

Lysol certainly used to produce a product with a similar formulation in the USA for many years, but I believe that it was discontinued some years ago in favour of several milder formulations which are not likely to be as effective horticulturally.
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: detailista on March 15, 2010, 12:29:04: I looked at Jeyes fluid as I had some dampening off with seeds planted in old pots. Seems ok for greenhouses - is labelled with directions on the bottle. Just wondering could I use milton or similar as a stand in for Jeyes to clean old plant pots?
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on March 15, 2010, 13:11:48: Blight shouldn't be able to survive long outside living tissue, with a slight caveat in case two strains have interbred. As far as I know that hasn't yet happened in the UK. So no need to worry about last year. Just hope we get a drier summer!
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: GRACELAND on March 15, 2010, 14:20:01: ;D

its good stuff

you all know it will be banned soon so stock up ;D
Title: Re:Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Vinlander on March 17, 2010, 00:14:39: Quote from: Bionic Wellies on October 14, 2004, 15:04:40
The following year my onions were green for longer than anyone elses and I actually managed a crop - felt dead smug I can tell you.

Sterilising soil means it is left choc full of zillions of dead worms, insects, bacteria, fungi, protozoa etc. etc.

99.9% of them were beneficial. In some cases bad stuff couldn't get in because something otherwise useless was already in that niche.

However the soil is rapidly recolonised by bacteria that rot it all down so there is a large and instant jolt of fertiliser that the next plant can take advantage of.

It doesn't last long but can make a difference. This may be what you observed.

Unfortunately the next sowing will probably suffer from the absence of all the good guys, not to mention the loss of soil structure.

Not a big problem for a small area but could be very bad news for a large area.

What you use doesn't bother me in the least - I'm definitely not in favour of using the law against simple, degradeable, mildly poisonous substances because there's more money to be made from complex, persistent and unpredictable new ones that will turn out worse (every single one has at the last count).

And sterilising may be worthwhile for a very small group of nasties like honey fungus (not blight, mildew, or onion white rot or we'd all be doing it), but its main benefit is to make you feel you are in control - irrespective of how little control you have - same reason the Aztecs went in for human sacrifice.

Here I go a bit away from veggies...

It's taken 20,000 years for us to begin to understand that 'hygiene' is a two-edged sword. Not just polio and the modern view of asthma etc.

Whole cultures have been wiped out because their unscientific 'hygeine' laws actually encouraged pathogens.

Here's a good example if like me you have an academic interest in counter-intuitive parables:

The Essenes thought they were clean, and lots of theologists read their writings, assume they were and sing their praises - even now cranks peddle it like snake oil.

If you have a strong stomach you can check this archaeology site for the real story:

http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/orion/news/scrollNov13-06.htm
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on March 17, 2010, 09:41:30: They were thinking of ritual cleanness, not hygeine. According to one source from the 1st Century AD, the Essene community in Jerusalem didn't poo on the Sabbath, because their toilet had to be so far from the city that it would have involved walking more than the legitimate 'sabbath day's journey' that was allowed. The mind boggles!
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Ian Pearson on March 17, 2010, 17:45:56: Here are just some of the warnings on Jeyes fluid safety data sheet:
Harmful: may cause lung damage. Irritating to eyes and skin. Keep out of reach of children. Do not breathe vapour. Wear suitable gloves and protective clothing. Marine pollutant Class 9. Soil residual level after one month 0.1%. Acute oral toxicity LD50.

The main ingredients are Methanol and High boiling point tar acids. I don't fancy getting either of those in my soil. If any of your crops take it up you could end up having it for dinner one night.

Blight arrives by airborne spores which tend to move across the whole country when the temperature and humidity are right (or can survive overwinter in living tissue of toms or potatoes). Sterilizing the soil will not prevent either of these methods of arrival. It will just damage your soil biology
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: detailista on March 19, 2010, 12:15:11: I can't imagine sterlizing my soil but was just wondering about whether it is worth cleaning the stack of dirty plant pots that have been sat in the back yard for the past year or can i just wash them down with a simpler, less toxic cleaner?
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on March 19, 2010, 15:31:23: Cold water, a scrubbing brush, and elbow grease are traditional; if you want to do it properly you stand in an open shed in the middle of winter scrubbing pots while an icy gale whistles round you. You can wash them down with anything which isn't too toxic, but I wouldn't bother myself unless I had an outbreak of something nasty affecting potted plants.
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: valmarg on March 26, 2010, 22:36:45: Quote from: Parsley on October 05, 2004, 10:12:44
Whilst down the lottie yesterday, I was talking to another Ploth Holder, who told me to use Jeyes Fluid to disinfect my tomatoe patch, that unfortunaley succomed to blight.

I always understood that tomato/potato blight were airborne diseases, so disinfecting the soil will not help contol the disease, as the spores do not live in the soil. Thats what I had been told, but it may be wrong.

With regard to using Jeyes/Armillatox for sterilising soil etc., with particular regard to Armillatox, it has been certified for several uses by UK organisations/universities, but the EU says that unless it is subjected to their tests (costing 100's of thousands of pounds) it cannot be marketed as such in the EU. Both Jeyes and Armillatox are coal tar based and the EU does not like coal tar.

As far as Armillatox is concerned, if you go to armillatox.co.uk you will find that it can only be used for washing down patios and patio furniture, BUT if you go to armillatox.com you will find the dilution rates for all the other uses it used to be recommended for. All that means is that you can ?legally use the product anywhere in the world for these purposes, except the EU. ??? ???

valmarg
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on March 27, 2010, 10:23:28: It won't affect blight, which isn't present in the soil. It's either in living tissue or airborne. But if I had rampant white rot I'd probably try Armatillox. I'm not anti-EU, but I am anti pettifogging bureaucracy wherever it appears.
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Larkshall on April 04, 2010, 00:41:14: We used to use Jeyes Fluid on the farm, a lot of animals have been saved by it. The only problem these days is that most places only sell 1ltr cans at a vastly inflated price. I hate to think what a 5ltr can would cost (£40).
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: :( on April 04, 2010, 00:55:34: Wilkinsons sell Jeyes Fluid at £5,98 for a litre.
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Baccy Man on April 04, 2010, 07:15:07: Quote from: Larkshall on April 04, 2010, 00:41:14
I hate to think what a 5ltr can would cost (£40).

I guess you missed this thread (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,58961.0.html) its available from £18 per 5 litres (http://www.cleaningmachinestore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13_20&products_id=306&zenid=1bf62f4692756302a0b70524c7a474c3) it all depends where you buy it.
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: laurieuk on April 06, 2010, 20:28:55: Blight is airborne so there is not much point in using anything to disinfect your soil. If the wind is in the right direction and the humidity correct then blight is likely to infect your plants. You can get blight warnings but by then it is too late most times to spray against it.
Laurie

Quote from: Parsley on October 05, 2004, 10:12:44

Whilst down the lottie yesterday, I was talking to another Ploth Holder, who told me to use Jeyes Fluid to disinfect my tomatoe patch, that unfortunaley succomed to blight.

My questions are

A. Is this O.K to use - I'm trying to be Organic.

B If so, how do you apply it - ie dilution rate.

:-[(I stupidly nodded my head knowingly, when he suggested it.)

Bl
Title: Re: Jeyes Fluid
Post by: Larkshall on April 07, 2010, 21:31:37: I checked the price of 1ltr can in a local dealers (not garden centre) £9.99, and they're usually cheaper than garden centres (it's the only place I know where we get a discount on Wolf Garten tools).