Allotments 4 All
Produce => Kept Animals => Topic started by: flowergirl on July 14, 2009, 21:41:56
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I would love to keep chickens at home but my lovely builders have put a restriction on my land! SO...i have an allotment, only had it a year but we are really making progress.
I would love to keep approx 6 hens and a cockerel, i am thinking of dedicating a piece of the allotment that's about 25'by 25 ', also would convert a 8'x 6' shed into a hen house.
I am thinking about burying 2' by 3' paving slabs around the perimeter of the run to stop foxes. I plan for the chicken wire to about 6' high, and even have some sort of meshing above the run to stop the chooks getting out. (I plan to have leghorns and white star and Ive heard they are flighty birds).
my concerns are...
1. is a once a day visit enough?
2. what about at winter time? Do they need undisturbed sleep as it may be dark when I visit?
3. Do they need electric lighting and heating in winter as we have no electric to the allotments?
I have many more questions and will buy book but I need to know if my commitment is enough really. I work full time and would hate to neglect them...anyone else in same predicament??
???
FG X
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I'm not a chicken keeper but I've been looking into it for my site. I believe you have to visit twice a day, once to let them out and then to put them to bed. No doubt one of the experienced keepers will be along with more info.
However, your plan to keep a cockerel may not work. The law on keeping chickens on allotments allows hens but not cockerels and many allotment sites don't permit cockerels because of the noise nuisance. You should check with your site.
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i plan to leave them free range..to put them selves to bed...by protecting them from foxes this shouldn't be a problem.
As for cockerels....every allotment has them! The problem is a lot of the old boys on my allotment site don't give the care for their chooks that I would...I don't want ask advice from them. I am not judging them but i want my chooks to be pets so want to give them the BEST care.
Do you think this is impossible if I only go once per day?
The trouble is, I have to travel to get to my allotment....couldn't manage a morning visit because of work.
:-[
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As for cockerels....every allotment has them!
No, they don't.
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I mean at my allotment. From the forty plots I would say 30 have them.
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You are wrong about keeping cockerels. Not every site is allowed to have them.You have to go twice a day just get up earlier before you go to work :D
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If you think you can make your runs and henhouse foxproof then you could get away with a once a day visit. They will normally put themselves to bed just fine. If its dark when you visit presumably its winter and they sleep for a long time when the days are short - so a short disturbance won't bother them much.
I wonder why you want a cockerel though? Is it to breed? Hens are perfectly happy without a cockerel - they don't need them in order to lay eggs (but you probably know that already).
Cockerels are noisy, can be aggressive and eat all year round without producing a single egg!
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To make the enclosure fox proof you would need weldmesh rather than chicken wire as a fox can easily bite through chicken wire (some of mine was chewed through by something) they can also scale a 6ft fence so a roof or electric wire strand would be needed
If you can't make the enclosure fox proof (its a big area after all!) you will need to make the shed fox proof - nail some weldmesh around the bottom of the shed so planks can't be pulled away and invest in an automatic pop hole opener and closer which operates the pop hole at dawn and dusk or can be fitted with a timer so you can dictate the times you want it to operate. You would need to value your sleep though as these cost around £150 and may be tempting to a thief
The hens won't protect themselves from the fox and a cockerel cannot protect them either, I know you are trying to do your best but they really need to be properly shut in if your enclosure isnt fox proof
There is another school of thought which is you swallow your fox losses and replace the chickens
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Pheasant pens are often protected by using electric fencing wire around the outside of the mesh. Runs off a car battery. The mesh is left slack which makes it more difficult to climb.
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Fully understand what flowergirl is trying to day and would say it is definitely possible.
When I was a lad my father kept chickens (and a cockerel) very successfully on a large allotment (actually several plots) without visiting to let them in/out and without any fox problem. The key is to make if fox resistant. The run was made with corrugated metal sheets between posts with chicken wire on top. The panels were dug into a trench in the ground to prevent digging under and the wire was fixed at intervals to the top of the panels a bit like this but without a roof:-
http://www.buildchickencoops.com/chooktopia.htm (http://www.buildchickencoops.com/chooktopia.htm)
(A bit American but all I could find quickly)
I seem to recall that the panels were painted with bitumen to protect from rust.
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I have had hens for the past 5 years now and see to them twice daily. Another consideration for you would be - if you can only get up to the plot at tea-time, would you have time to spend cleaning them out as and when required? My personnal opinion is that if you are considering hens but narrowed yourself to teatime visits only then they may not be for you. What if you end up running late and miss your "time window" It only takes 10 minutes to feed and water the hens.
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do you have a chum at the lottie that you could share the chickens with? that way you could do teatime and she could do the morning,and youve have holiday cover,sick cover etc?
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I am thinking about burying 2' by 3' paving slabs around the perimeter of the run to stop foxes. I plan for the chicken wire to about 6' high, and even have some sort of meshing above the run to stop the chooks getting out. (I plan to have leghorns and white star and Ive heard they are flighty birds).
Burying the concrete slabs will do the job but you should bury a good 1'-1 1/2' of wire as well. I would also double up or triple up the chicken wire around the lower areas as a determined fox can bite through chicken wire. 6' high chicken wire is plenty and I doubt you will need anything across the top to keep the chickens in. You may want to consider putting some netting over the top to keep wild birds out (they will bring in mites, lice etc. as well as the bio-security issues of bird flu etc.). You may want to provide some kind of cover for them outside so that they aren't cooped up in their hose during prolonged rainy periods.
my concerns are...
1. is a once a day visit enough?
No. For a start despite the chicken wire/fox proofing they should be kept in a closed shed overnight. This will help keep them warm in the winter and will also be slightly less attractive to any foxes that pass in the night (you should try and do as much as possible not to attract foxes). And during the winter it will be dark when you see them which won't give you adequate opportunity to check them for injuries, parasites or any other problems.
2. what about at winter time? Do they need undisturbed sleep as it may be dark when I visit?
mentioned some winter stuff before. Otherwise it doesn't matter if you disturb them when it is dark (though it is best to have a door on the house so that a frisky one doesn't bolt out when you are in their house or outside changing, emptying, cleaning food and water). You will need a day at the weekend during daylight, when the chickens are out, to clean and change their bedding in the house. When they are asleep or drowsy is usually the best time to pick them up and examine them once in a while for injuries and parasites. However I have electric lights and get a thorough look at them - you will find it difficult to do a proper job with just a torch or headlamp.
3. Do they need electric lighting and heating in winter as we have no electric to the allotments?
I'm in the North of Scotland and get solidly cold winters and my chickens survive no problem without extra heat or light. For the light they adapt as all things do (egg production drops off). As for the cold I do give them extra thick depth of bedding (wood shavings) and I lag my sheds with bubblewrap and sometimes wadding as well as covering gaps around the door that might let in strong winds and snow - obviously you leave some gaps to make sure it's not air tight. When it's really cold they get warm porridge in the morning.
I assume you are further South and will not have to worry too much about winter.
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my neighbours have used harris fencing for their permanent chicken runs - works a treat
personally i prefer the moveable enclosures method - eg pens that fit over my raised beds - so my chucks clean up the land when I move em from one place to another
keeps the vermin guessing too
dax
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Thanks for all your replies...
no need to call the RSPCA yet i don't own any and was just playing with the idea.
The focus is not on the cockerels... I never knew there where so many anti cockerel chicken lovers out there...enough already ::) Forget the cockerel...I wont get a cockerel.
Perhaps I didn't make my intentions clear.
I plan to start off with girls...perhaps 6.
I would go every day to the allotment for about 2 hours in summer months and Saturday and Sunday Most of the day.
Winter evenings would be just for the chooks, at 4.30 so it wouldn't be particularly middle of the night.
I plan to have a small exit/entry to the coop so it wouldn't be a wide opened door, the entry/exit would also be elevated.
I plan to have a solar powered shed light for the coop.
I am making an assumption here! But wouldn't cleaning the coop out once a week be enough?
In reference to the "time window" I will be using double glazing windows (OH a builder so already have them :) ) but i suspect this is not what you meant :P
We are toying with the idea of building a coop on stilts, with an extended canopy of approx 6' x 6' to protect the birds from the rain.
The perimeter of the coop would have the buried slabs with the wire also buried all the way under.
I do have a friend, but she works in the same office doing the same hours and she too couldn't make the morning run.
I do appreciate your advice, if you could see how some of the birds are kept on my allotment you would cry! I know I can look after them a whole lot better my main concern is with the once a day business.
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I would go every day to the allotment for about 2 hours in summer months and Saturday and Sunday Most of the day.
Winter evenings would be just for the chooks, at 4.30 so it wouldn't be particularly middle of the night.
Thats more than enough attention - you might find the hours past quickly just watching them!
I am making an assumption here! But wouldn't cleaning the coop out once a week be enough?
If you put removeable trays under the perches and cover them with newspaper you will find that most of the dropping are caught on the tray - just roll up the newspaper every 2/3 days and put on the compost heap and re-lay with clean paper. The bedding on the floor will last much longer - I clear the trays every 2/3 days and muck out the floor bedding about once a month.
We are toying with the idea of building a coop on stilts, with an extended canopy of approx 6' x 6' to protect the birds from the rain.
Best thing I ever did was raise my shed off the floor - also the coop/shed is then at waist height - easy to rake the bedding straight into a barrow. Good shelter in bad weather for the chooks too.
The perimeter of the coop would have the buried slabs with the wire also buried all the way under.
Should be just fine!
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Stilts is is then!! Thanks for that.
Just looking at electric timers. great idea for letting them out although i wouldn't trust it at the evening, what if a chicken is still out...reminds me of when I was 19...a rather badly behaved teenager! often rolled home after night club to find I was locked out ;D
They are really expensive aren't they
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The focus is not on the cockerels... I never knew there where so many anti cockerel chicken lovers out there...enough already ::) Forget the cockerel...I wont get a cockerel.
Not me. I've got 5 of them. Then again I also have a lot of chickens and distant neighbours.
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Im not against keeping cockerels its just that we cant keep them on our allotments or at home. We had to give our lovely welsummer away earlier this year but he went to a good home :D
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I would love to keep chickens at home but my lovely builders have put a restriction on my land! SO...i have an allotment, only had it a year but we are really making progress.
I would love to keep approx 6 hens and a cockerel, i am thinking of dedicating a piece of the allotment that's about 25'by 25 ', also would convert a 8'x 6' shed into a hen house.
I am thinking about burying 2' by 3' paving slabs around the perimeter of the run to stop foxes. I plan for the chicken wire to about 6' high, and even have some sort of meshing above the run to stop the chooks getting out. (I plan to have leghorns and white star and Ive heard they are flighty birds).
my concerns are...
1. is a once a day visit enough?
2. what about at winter time? Do they need undisturbed sleep as it may be dark when I visit?
3. Do they need electric lighting and heating in winter as we have no electric to the allotments?
I have many more questions and will buy book but I need to know if my commitment is enough really. I work full time and would hate to neglect them...anyone else in same predicament??
???
FG X
Can i suggest you look at this from a different angle.
You say the is a convenant about not keeping chickens on your land....?
Ok , how long have you owned the property, is it a new estate and what kinda size is the builder?.
You will proberly find that it is highly unlikely that a builder would be interested in enforcing a convenant on the property with regards to chickens.
In fact it is entirely possible to challange this.
Personally i would ask your neighbours if they had any objections to you keeping chickens and go from there...
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Personally i wouldnt dream of keeping chickens on an allotment when you can only visit once a day, i personally would want much more intereaction with my birds and would want to check them in the morning.
Please think again about getting them to keep them on the allotment. I know your full of good intentions i dont think its that fair on the birds. Dont mean to sound off but just what i think
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Can i suggest you look at this from a different angle.
You say the is a convenant about not keeping chickens on your land....?
Ok , how long have you owned the property, is it a new estate and what kinda size is the builder?.
You will proberly find that it is highly unlikely that a builder would be interested in enforcing a convenant on the property with regards to chickens.
In fact it is entirely possible to challange this.
Personally i would ask your neighbours if they had any objections to you keeping chickens and go from there...
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Personally i wouldnt dream of keeping chickens on an allotment when you can only visit once a day, i personally would want much more intereaction with my birds and would want to check them in the morning.
Please think again about getting them to keep them on the allotment. I know your full of good intentions i dont think its that fair on the birds. Dont mean to sound off but just what i think
I have owned this property since 2005...the builders are Bellway homes and they are still on site. We all (neighbours) have just had a letter threatening to take legal action saying we would be sued if we didn't move commercial vehicles (work vans) and caravans (we have regretably had to sell our lovely caravan because of this)which means we have lost holiday and partner lost job ...so chickens are def a no no!
My neighbours (middle aged posh n becks wanna Be's) would certainly not understand....they would probably be concerned that chicken feathers in their swimming pool would cause avian flu!
In an ideal world I would love to keep them in my garden, I would also love to grow my own veggies in my garden along with a couple of pigs and a cow to milk but I am not that fortunate :-[
I am not just full of good intention....I have actually requested a transfer of offices so I can be closer to my allotment...more commitment than most
Sorry if this sounds off but my vice is my allotment...i do not do things on a whim, i look at all angles and all possibilities I research everything, i am quite intelligent, responsible and caring and would never ever neglect any animal.
I have had enough Pm's to be reassured and i thank you all
FG X
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Thats a shame!, some people are such snobs!, they only want the vans moved so it makes the area look better to sell the houses.
Would it not be a good idea to wait until you can be a situation where you can check them twice a day.
Dont want to be seen as putting a downer on your plan. I couldnt bare my girls to be away from where i can keep an eye on them. Some people will disagree. I think it depends on how much you see them as pets and how much you be attached to them(which we did very quickly)
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Idon't know what the future will bring...I may be spending 24/7 with them!
We wont be getting them until the spring...I just like to research things in detail! I don't think we will treat them like our dogs.....they will be pets but they wil be for a purpose..EGGS.
I will protect them and care for them all the same.
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Okay My 2 pence worth
Chickens are actually a wild creature. They can cope quite well on their own. I know of keepers who have egloos and all the best stuff who have lost their flock to whatever.
Once a day is enough if the run is secure. And.... as no one has mentioned.. your allotment site doesn't have a history of chicken snatching??? then your probably OK.
Don't keep cockerels though. Not worth the agro. Just keep chookies and add to them from wherever you can if you need to.
Take them LOADS of extra scraps though. Supplement their diet with whatever you can except the usuals meat, eggs, onions, garlic etc.
At the end of the day let your conscience guide you. If they lay regurlaly, seem happy, eat well, have good feathers etc then your probably doing OK.
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Chickens are actually a wild creature
I disagree with that. You may as well say that everyone's pet dog or cat are also wild creatures because chickens have gone through the same centuries of breeding and close human contact that cats and dogs have. Chickens are trainable and respond well to routine though admittedly they don't have the mental capacity to do complex work like a dog. In the past I've had a few exceptional cockerels who have enjoyed fetching on command. I've had some who have been my shadows for years like any dog. My chickens always congregate from their ruminations in the same spot every day and at the right time for the season to get their tea.