Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: trogg on June 07, 2009, 23:39:36
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A common theme I've noticed on these forums are tenants not looking after their plots, and problems getting rid of them.
As someone who has been trying ( not hard enough ) to get a plot for nearly 2 years I've come to the conclusion that the rents are too cheap.
A full size plot as little as £11 a year ! I think if the price was increased it would put off those who can't be bothered and also put a few extra quid into the allotments.
I guess it's the council who sets the price though :-\
I would be happy paying a bit more than 3p a day.
or am I missing something ?
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Yes, let's make allotments the preserve of the affluent.
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No they should stay at the rents they are.
Why should the rest of us pay more just because some people do not tend their plots.
If the rules were tightened up we would not have the problem.
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Wish mine was as cheap as £11 a year! The idea of having a plot for us is so we can afford fresh veg. If the rent was any dearer we would be struggling as we are not as well off as some people.
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Yes. Just this once I agree with the sharp fork. If you think it is hard to kick out an old boy who's a bit techno challenged, just try to evict a staunch rich bitch well connected and vociferous.
While £11 is cheap it is far from the norm with something in the region of £30 for a half plot more common. £30 is also round about the business rental value for small parcels of agricultural land so it is not even a subsidy as such.
Even if a plotholder volunteers a surrender of the tenancy it can take a long time before the waiters are contacted, given time to view, agreements signed and work commences. Unless the plot was in tip top condition it with then on average take a year or more for the new tenant to bring it under full control.
Another point to bear in mind is that when looking in over the fence, all you will see is a wilderness and that would include a plot full of spuds with a few thistles poking up. It all looks a mess.
If you are on the waiting list then you have to wait. We cannot push any secret buttons and no amount of moaning will do any good.
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I wasn't suggesting a massive increase, just enough to make it not worthwhile holding on to a plot you're not too bothered with.
It was just a thought from someone a little frustrated in seeing unused/part used plots.
I wont put it to a vote ;D
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I understand trogg. ;D
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Yep, I think in some area's allotments are far too cheap.
I have been involved in allotments for many years and it has never failed to amaze me how so many of the old timers want everything for nothing. Plus, some new ones too want to know who mows their paths, where is the hose to water, where's the free manure etc, all this for less than a £1 a week !
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Just like to say that although I'm 'looking over the fence' I have been on the other side...
I (family)quite often visit my in-laws 125 miles away, and almost always end up helping out on their allotment.
They say the same things as I see on these forums, unused plots that just get 'turned over' when the tenant gets pushed into doing something about it.
If they can't be bothered to use their plot then I think a financial disincentive would be an idea .
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I'm glad someone agrees with me :)
was looking on how to delete my posts,
and do a runner :-[
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Plus what you pay in council tax sinbad.
I pay enough to buy the land ;D ;D ;D
Allotments should be available for everyone.......if you are on benefits and allotment rent if overpriced could be unobtainable. :)
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Lol, don't do a runner trogg.
I know in some areas the council has a tiny budget to run all their site's, so the staff get cut down to a minimum sometimes only one or two people dealing with allotments and that's not even a full time job for them. No money to do the work that needs doing on these sites, then the tenants on the sites moaning and the cycle goes on. Where if the sites were financially viable then things would move forward for allotments.
I personally think they should be run on the lines of a business so they charged proper rents for the plots and ploughed the monies back into the sites. Bit like you get what you pay for.
Of course can't see many if any would agree with me ;D
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Arhhhh but look what else you get for your council tax betula.
No way can our borough run all their sites on the budget they get from those taxes a year.
If you list all that is done with your council tax betula you get quite good value for money. It just depends if you are a family that take advantage of what is on offer in your area and is subsidised by your council tax.
I appreciate our good street lighting, I appreciate our clean streets, I appreciate the use of the library etc etc.
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Simbad you sound like our MP.......... ;D ;D ;D
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Putting the price up would not change anything except the class of the people not doing any weeding. Make it law that plot rents have to be at least £200 the only people who would give up the plots would be the people with nice plots but no money. Once all the plots were in the hands of wealthy folk there would then never be any plots come vacant. Bill them a grand and they would just write a cheque. Price is not the issue here.
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While I agree with Eristic that even putting up rents to "realistic" levels would not help. When the fad wears off the rich will lapse... we are a private site, set up by nimbys and for twenty years they paid no rent at all and let the site go to wrack and ruin. However as treasurer I object to being expected to finance miracles on a rent roll that was bringing in less than £2,000 pa from 175 plots. I have now managed to double the rents, shock! horror! to £20pa for 300sq yds. New tenants still look at the rent and expect I mean per month not per year. Don't play the poverty card... at @50p per week, less than a daily newspaper or £2.50 per month, the price of a pint I'm not ripping you off...
We have one tenant, on a pension who objects to paying £120 in one go... well no one is saying he has to have 6 plots... hand one back, or pay in monthly installments by DD... or just give up!! ::) Rant over... having spent two days stood in the rain trying to raise extra funds to subsidise the whingers has not improved my attitude... :-X
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Although it is difficult to generalise - given the huge differences in rents (from £1 to £100+) - I consider that, when viewed historically, typical rents are cheap.
As an example I estimate that my rent is equivalent to approximately one third of what a plot holder would have paid our council in 1896 when they first took control of the site. This is not to say that I should be paying 3 times more, as my 19th century predecessor was paying for some items that are no longer relevant, but I should be paying more than I am.
I agree with Sinbad7 that council-run allotment sites should be run along business lines. As he says, it would not be popular (turkeys not voting for Xmas etc). However, I consider that it is essential if we are to avoid further reductions in the number of sites across the country, not now when allotments are in vogue but during the next downturn in demand when little (or even large) snips in supply are politically acceptable. Demand for plots has always been cyclical and will probably always remain so.
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Well said, Saddad!!
We're a private site, too. We have about 90 plots, plus 2 large smallholdings; our total annual income is a little over £4000, nearly half of which goes straight out again as rent to our landlords, the local church charity. (And they should be getting far more than that as annual income from a large area of land on the outskirts of London!)
That leaves us about £2000 a year to do everything else: water, machinery, repairs, running costs (most of which are borne personally be the Committee, who rarely put in chits for paper, phone calls, etc), to say nothing of new ventures to improve the site, or fencing to keep out intruders.
Our fees are currently £12 for 300 sq yds! Even with up-front joining fees, I've been charging newcomers £21 for a full year's rental! That's a fortnight's paper bill for me, and I don't even have a Sunday paper!
But I agree with several others who've posted, as well. We also need stronger rules - and a stronger will-power from those in charge - to get rid of the time-wasters who never bother to come and cultivate. And let's do it sooner rather than later while we're in a position to put a little pressure on for, as BAK pointed out, demand is cyclical.
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Every time something comes up about the cost of allotments we always hear the same thing - the whingeing from those that "haven't got a job - or are poor pensioners - or who just hate anyone that appears to have money!"
I have said - numerous times - people do not always value something that costs nothing - and yes - in todays' world the rents are ridiculously cheap!
The out of workers can afford to pay the rent - maybe not all in one go - but on a manageable drip - plus there is absolutely no excuse for their plots ever to be untidy as every scrap of ground should be cultivated to feed them and their families very cheaply! They generally don't pay rent and council tax like some of the people that work have to!
The pensioners - yes they do receive a pittance - but again they could pay on the drip - over time - they get - if on benefits they don't pay council tax and again they should always have immaculate plots as they have plenty of time and they should be able to feed themselves much more cheaply than if they bought their veggies!
The "rich" by which I expect you mean the working people who earn a living wage - pay tax - and everything else - run a car - have a drink every so often
(oops I was getting my cross section muddled there as loads of out of workers and pensioners run cars and have a drink and a smoke, eat out occasionally etc.)
Very rich people - don't have allotments - they have large houses with large gardens and probably have a gardener to do their work for them. So who are these supposed "rich" people you are talking about?
I think that rents are still on the very low side - and it would not only be "the rich" that would afford an alloment - even if the annual price were doubled!
Old Bird
:o
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they should always have immaculate plots as they have plenty of time
from old bird above...
Every year at the AGM someone suggests discounts for pensioners... I suggest they pay more as they have extra time to spend on the lottie... our "best" kept plots are immaculate and they are worked by pensioners... :-X
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I got an allotment on when I retired and spend a few hours every day up there. Love it, and the people who I chat to. I think it is great value for money, pay less for a year (under £40) than it costs to have my hair done, cut and coloured once a month (£44, and that is only local). When I got divorced, no maintenance and two children to support, I took a job with a pension and paid in extra, so now have private and government pension, mortgage is paid off, no children to support, only one cat and grandchildren to give pocket to if I wish. My lovely free bus/tube/train pass is much appreciated. No car as gave it up when retired and got a bike. Ideally I would have a small house with a large garden, greenhouse, shed, veggie plot, but cannot take on another mortgage at my age so the next best thing is my allotment. Now there is such a big demand I wouldn't be surprised if the price goes up but would be prepared to pay extra (but obviously wouldn't like it). Some pensioners do moan a lot, and I feel more sorry for young families with children and big mortgages. Children never stop eating or wanting shoes/clothes etc and are expensive. I can live cheaply, plenty of vegetables and plenty of exercise (certainly saves on heating bills). I also think that with a big demand one allotment per person is fair (sorry if any of you have more than one), I am tempted to put the vacant plot next to mine in OH's name but he wouldn't have time or inclination to do it and it would be too much for me, just hope someone as nice as 'my old lady who gave it up' takes it on. My Council have now stopped rotavating allotments when they are taken on as it is too expensive and they have to be taken 'as seen' as some of them are very, very overgrown. 5 years ago, when I got mine the site was very quiet, but since Joe Swift came and allotments have become the fashionable thing to do we have got many new people, but some stay and some very quickly give up. Luckily all the new people are very pleasant and friendly. I pay my Council tax but do not think that entitles me to a cheap allotment. I don't owe anyone anything and when they ring up to offer me loans or debt repayment I say I don't want it or need it and they say 'I am a very lucky young lady', not lucky just prepared and saved for my retirement.
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I think the great thing about allotments is that they are so egallitarian - everyone, no matter what their age, sex, colour etc. pays the same and is measured by whether they cultivate their plot and work WITH people.
Today, our society seems to be set up for people to look for the "poor little me" card to play - either "I'm a pensioner", "I have kids", "I am female, black, yellow, single parent", etc. One thing I learnt from a disabled friend whom I greatly admired was that above all, she wanted people to look for what she COULD DO, not what she couldn't. She wanted to be evaluated by that.
Personally I think up to £1 a week is or should be no hardship to anyone who is determined to make use of a plot, whoever they are. Some pensioners may be hard up, but so are some families. Of course, the cost should also depend upon what services and assistance is available on that site. We pay an increased charge for water, some sites pay more for hedge/path/site maintenance. Whatever is included you do know about it when you take the plot so it is your choice!
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If you have cheap plots, great but you still need to throw people off it they can't maintain them to a certain standard. I think putting up our plots would definitely put people off, including those who keep them in good shape - £40 per year for a full plot, I think £27 for a half plot. Retired and those on benefits pay half but probably get more use.
I don't see why anyone could need more than 2 plots. What is the guy doing with 6??
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It is good to talk to people on the allotment and on here about vegetables for hours on end without the person you are talking to either yawning or trying desparately to get away. We have an interest in common and are not too materialistic (I hope), only allotment people can get over excited about half price seeds or even free seeds. Also having an allotment saves money on days out or holidays, as spending a day at the allotment is as good as a holiday.
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It is lovely to hear "positive replies".
I am fairly obviously a glass half full type of person!
Old Bird
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But would we all be so jolly about rent rises if commercial rates dictated the rent????
My thought is leave a good thing alone and get rid of the woolly rules that allow the non users to keep their plots.
Allotments have always been a cheap way for the public to grow veg.....I would like to keep it that way.
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Totally agree with you Denise!
But I am not talking commercial rates just enough to be "sensible" and for the allotments to pay for themselves and not subsidised by the general public in their Council tax bill!
Ann!
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Even double our current rent of £12 for a half plot would be dead cheap - and solve a lot of problems for the Committee trying to make ends meet.
The important thing about allotments - apart from being cheap - is that they are a community. If folk rent a plot but never bother to come and cultivate it, what the hell have they got it for? And why doesn't the rest of the community throw them out?
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The way I see council tax is it should be used for public amenities.
The allotment is an important public amenity to my mind.
I do not mind helping to fund all sorts of things that I personally do not use.
I have no problem in expecting my council tax to go towards allotments. :)
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Putting up the rent doesn't really address the issue of uncultivated plots, and uncultivated plots isn't really the issue either.
There should be more allotments. Councils should be establishing more sites so that anyone that wants can have an allotment of the size they want.
Allotments too cheap? No. National average is ~£4.00/pole and on a full well-run site that should be enough to pay ground rent, water, maintenance, and leave a bit for capital investment too, and tenants should be encouraged to do as much of the administration and maintenance as possible because that builds community.
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After our next rent rise (October with a years notice!) we will be paying £2.40 per pole... my long term goal is £3.00 per pole or £30 pa.. Even I draw the line at asking for a £1 a week!! ::)
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Last AGM (we are a private association) a couple of the older chaps proposed waving the rates for members with 25 yrs standing. Apparently £20 year was too much for them! It was pointed out that everyone else would have to pay more to cover the costs and that as more peole got to 25 years then the rates would rocket. Natch they lost but they were serious in their intent.
Allotments are cheap but they should be - if left to the market we could charge a hell of a lot more but as we dont need the money what would be the point.
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Denise
I agree that it is an important public amenity - but to a minority of people - and my point is that there are - in my town 100 or so allotments - but several thousand council tax payers.
I would not like that several thousand people coming to visit my plot - as they consider it an amenity that they contribute towards!
Unwashed - if the rents were a bit higher - some people that don't particularly bother with their allotments - may think that the higher price is not worth their paying as they aren't getting anything out of it. As I said before - if you don't charge much for something it may not be valued by the recipient - and therefore it may be left to rot as it cost near to nothing!
Old Bird
:D
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I found this.To quote from below,I would not want to return to the days when allotments were for people of means.
Brief History of Allotments in England & Wales
In the early and high Middle Ages villagers shared pieces of land around the village to eke out an existence by growing crops and grazing livestock. However, rises in the population and improvements in agriculture put pressure on the “shared” approach, leading to moves to privatise this common land.
Land Enclosure, as it was called, occurred principally in the 18th and 19th centuries, benefiting a relatively small minority (landowners and farmers) while disenfranchising the majority. Fortunately, some members of the landed gentry, politicians and the clergy had social consciences, and they commenced in the 1760s what turned out to be a long struggle to provide allotments for the poor and unemployed by means of individual initiatives and lobbying for legislation.
Members of the nobility who were early providers of allotments in the late 18th century included Lords Carrington, Winchilsea and Egremont. Some providers set rules: Cranfield Church in Bedfordshire required regular attendance at church, the bringing up of the family in a decent and orderly manner, and specified forfeiture of the allotment for any criminal conviction.
The first attempts to legislate for the provision of allotments occurred in the 1790s, but they were easily rebuffed by the landowners’ lobby which was strongly against the idea.
Life became even harder for the poor in the early part of the 19th century for reasons which included: a surplus of labour with the return of soldiers after the Napoleonic Wars; automation in the form of the threshing machine; and somewhat perversely gradual improvements in health which meant more mouths to feed. These factors, coupled with bad harvests in 1829 and 1830, led to the Swing Riots of 1830 and 1831. The rioters were harshly dealt with: 19 people were executed, and over 1,000 were either jailed or transported to Australia.
Lobbying subsequently became more fruitful, in part due to concerns about social unrest after the Swing Riots, and some initial pieces of legislation were enacted. Unfortunately, the effects of many of the acts which related to allotments (right through to the end of the 19th century) were diluted for the simple reason that they tended to rely on voluntary action.
By the middle of the 19th century a modest level of progress was beginning to be achieved, helped by a gradual decrease in the opposition from landowners and farmers. The increase in the number of allotments was far from uniform across the country, Wiltshire and Lincolnshire being particular hotbeds of activity. Potato fields were also popular around this time; this was a mechanism whereby land was let by a farmer for growing the crop which had become a staple part of the poor's diet by the start of the 19th century.
By 1873 there were around 243,000 plots according to one estimate. It was from this point onwards that an explosion in the growth of the allotments occurred, continuing right through to 1945. There were a number of reasons for this growth:
The movement, which had been predominantly rural in nature up to this point, quickly became urban in the latter part of the 19th century, as increasing numbers of town-dwellers sought the means to reconnect with the soil and to supplement their wages. Town gardens (places for both decoration and cultivation) had in fact predated the allotment movement in places such as Birmingham and Nottingham but they were often for people of some means, e.g. shopkeepers and artesans, rather than the ordinary working man.
changes in local government organisation, coupled with more effective allotment legislation in the period from 1880 through to 1908, led to the public provision of allotments. One estimate puts the number of allotments at around 600,000 just prior to the First World War
and the food situation during the two World Wars led to purple patches with the number of allotments peaking at around 1.5m during both conflicts.
Unfortunately, the second half of the 20th century saw a rapid descent from these dizzying heights, as the general standard of living gradually increased. The financial requirement of individuals to grow crops diminished, leading to a pronounced waning in the levels of enthusiasm across the nation. By the end of the 20th century there were estimated to be in the region of 250,000 allotments in England. The last 35 years has seen a number of gentle surges in interest, the latest being the significant appeal among young women, particularly mothers, to grow tasty food, free of pesticides.
The enemies of the allotment movement have been, and remain, the insatiable needs of property developers and the apathy of many plot holders. There will undoubtedly be continuing pressures on allotments everywhere, requiring vigilance and goodwill in equal measures if a right that many people struggled hard to win over a period of around a century, and even harder to maintain over the last 100+ years, is to be protected.
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I do not understand why allotment sites need huge amounts of money.
Our parish council pay for our water(no hosepipes allowed) and they cut the hedge that goes along the road side of our allotment twice a year.
I requested help with clearing of rubbish off the site,the allotment had been more or less abandoned for a few years.They arranged for some lads who are on probation to come and help and I think that cost them something.
That is it.
No freebies of anything.We have to pay for whatever we need on our plots.
Maybe committees sit and dream up all sorts of things that they want to spend money on.
We function well at this level and I know we cost the rate payer very little.
:)
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For independent sites like ourselves, you've answered your own question, Betula.
The council pays for your water. We pay for ours.
They cut the hedge. We do ours - and what's more it's written into our lease that we have to or risk getting thrown off.
The council arranged from some lads to help with clearance. They won't for us.
We're not a council site. We can't call on anyone - that's why a bit more in our coffers would be handy. Not huge amounts, though we do have a quarter of a mile of fencing to maintain!
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I agree 100% with Old Bird's first post, well said.
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Trevor_D..
Do you have site days? We are self financing and tight as a gnats chuff - we source lots of stuff through freecycle and have two days a year ,of which all memebers are duty bound to attand one. We get the paths trimmed - steps redone - bits of painting etc all with the help of members. Of course it is the usual crew who always turn up and do the graft but it sort of works and keeps costs down.
Just wondering if this is common practice or not..
cheers..
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Many thanks for the potted history of the allotment movement. We are on a private site. I think the owners are doing it as a jesture to the community they certainly are not going to get rich on the proceeds even though we pay considerably more than people pay for council ones. There just are no council ones in our area. Six people or no six people. I think that people should be able to get a government/EU grant for providing allotments. Perhaps then there would be more.
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Unwashed,
as I closely follow info on allotment rents, I am interested to know the source of your "national average of ~£4 per pole".
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Hi BAK, nothing very scientific I'm afraid, I took the median from table on this page (http://www.allotments-uk.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4836&whichpage=2). What's interesting is how much variation there is.
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I think as a hobby, allotments are fantastic value for money. In my area (Hounslow) the rent does not cover the full cost of running the sites - water, admin etc. and as a result the sites are largely neglected.
If the council could work out its overheads and charge a per rod rate that reflected an accurate cost and then provided a service - grass mowing, clearing plots, managing japanese knotweed etc then everyone would be happy.
We currently pay £5.50 per rod, going up to £5.70 in 2010. I think an additional £1-2 per rod would probably cover the overheads and would still be the best value hobby around. This would be a big step up for some people, so payment could be made quarterly by DD (simples) At that rate, it would be high enough for the 'dibblers' to seriously consider if they want to keep donating money for a plot that they do not use.
To put it in to perspective, 5 years ago, I paid £120 for a year's upholstery tuition - run by the same Council and quarterly payments to help spread the pain.
So, yes I do think that allotments are too cheap
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Just checked my allotment bill, it is £30 plus £8 for water, and that is a concession I get for being over 62 or whatever and also being a local resident, (equal rights for men and women, probably 62 and 6 months, can't type half on this computer). The Council cut the grass paths, just think of all the money they could make if they sold it for housing (hope that it is not allowed) so will shut up, keep quiet and be grateful. Allotments plots are too cheap, but probably about £2 a week would be sensible and not too much of a hardship to people. I don't agree that allotments should be provided by Council tax, schools, libraries etc should that everyone can use, but allotments are not parks which everyone can use and enjoy. I feel I am privileged to have so much land as so little cost just outside London.
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in Runnymede we pay £9.20 per 25 m2 (rod) per year
after 1st april 2010 it will be £12.88 per 25 m2 (rod) per year
i think its great value for money
lbb
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unwashed - fyi I did my own mini-survey in Dec 2007 and Jan 2008. When I stopped I had 89 samples covering ~160 sites (some samples covered multiple sites, eg Guildford and Bath). The average for a 5 pole plot was £22. If I limited it to the SE (we are in Berks) then the average was £26. As you have noted, there was a wide variation in the figures.
Re this thread in general, it is reassuring that the majority appear to recognise that the future of allotments may in large part depend on our willingness to pay sufficient rent (which will obviously vary from site to site and from area to area) to pay for our hobby. As others have pointed out, public subsidies for council-run sites (whether overt or hidden) are unlikely to be sustainable for what is in all truth a niche activity. As far as independent sites go, I am obviously telling grannie how to suck eggs here!
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Rents are fine as they are. Why fix whats not broken. It is people who write the rules who sometimes need to get themselves a bigger set of "cahooners" to challenge or even evict where necessary those who are no longer cultivating their plot without a valid reason.
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Our rents are cheap, and I would gladly pay more to continue a hobby that I get so much enjoyment from. It is cheap compared to just about everything! However, I also do not believe that making folk pay more for plots will lead to increased cultivation levels.
I agree with KTL that fair and comprehensive assessment and enforcement of the cultivation criteria is the only way to prevent the 'hanging on to' of uncultivated plots. I am now responsible for plot assessments on our site, and as soon as I joined the Committee two years ago (we are a private site) was constantly nabbed by disgruntled plot holders asking 'What are YOU going to do about so and so's plot next door to me that is waist height in weeds?'
What we did was do a quick assessment of all the plots to give us an idea of the scale of the problem, and then agree what 'fair' cultivation was. On our site this means 2/3rds of the plot under active cultivation, which includes orchard areas (fruit trees in grass) and excludes sheds, greenhouse areas etc. In the last 2 years since we started this, about 22 plots have changed hands and the number of plots that meet the cultivation criteria has risen from 109 to 141 with a further 7 plots currently being renovated by probationers who have 6 months to show they working towards the required standard (if they are having to clear a plot).
This has not always been a smooth process, and we have certainly learnt a few lessons along the way such as sending last warning and final eviction letters by recorded delivery so the recipient can't say they didn't get them as has happened in the past! It does rely on having people who don't mind being moaned to/about and a Secretary with a pretty thick skin, but having also committee members who will back you up and see the system is enforced fairly and consistently. We only sent out a few letters after our May assessments; two plotholders wrote back giving their plots up, two worked to get them up to standard straightaway (and have been moaning about it....but not to me! ;D), and the others have seen no action, but I'll look at them again in a few weeks and they will get final warning then out letters if there is no improvement...
I can't claim to have 'big cahooners' but I do have a strong sense of fairness, which is why I got involved in trying to improve things. In my book, you don't moan about something if you haven't at least tried to remedy the situation!
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I didn't realise there was such a difference in rents.
As an 'outsider' my first impression was they're so cheap.
I've been to a few allotments lately, and something I have noticed is the uncultivated plots tend to be newcomers, or at least that's what I get told by the other allotment holders,so why do they keep paying their rent's each year if they not all that bothered ??? A little hike on the rents might do the trick.
A little off topic, but, one of the allotments I went to have started to split the plots into half and quarter plots, a great idea I think because it gives newcomers a chance to see if all that hard work is for them, also those who are finding it difficult to maintain theirs, could reduce the size of plot without having to give it up or struggle on.
Also reduces the waiting list ;D
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The reason we started having a probationer period of six months when taking over a plot is to give us a way out if the plotholder realises working a plot is harder work than they expected. We have different sized plots on our site (the rent is worked out pro rata, some are odd shapes/sizes) but haven't as yet started splitting up plots.
Personally I have mixed feelings about them; I agree it does allow those waiting to cultivate something, but those are keen soon find out it is not enough room to grow everything they want to, and do you then go back on the waiting list and end up getting another quarter plot somewhere else on the site if all plots that become available are split? If you have shown willing by cultivating a split plot, will you get priority over someone who hasn't, and do you then have to give up your small plot for a bigger one? Could be a right can of worms...... :-\
The other thing is people get incredibly protective about 'their' plots. You don't realise this until you have your own patch and know just how much work it takes to get/keep it cultivated. Even when folk are struggling to maintain it due to age or ill health, some prefer to try and continue rather than ask for help. You have to be extremely careful how you approach such situations, as obviously there is a balance to be struck between keeping the plots as fully cultivated as possible, managing the waiting list, and not hounding or micromanaging established plotholders. Easier said than done in my humble experience......... :-\
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We have a three-month probation to give people a chance to see what they've taken on. Plots are too large for many people when you add the work of trimming the hedges. No money changes hands, and no commitments are made, until the end of the probation.
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Many thanks for the potted history of the allotment movement. We are on a private site. I think the owners are doing it as a jesture to the community they certainly are not going to get rich on the proceeds even though we pay considerably more than people pay for council ones. There just are no council ones in our area. Six people or no six people. I think that people should be able to get a government/EU grant for providing allotments. Perhaps then there would be more.
This is interesting to me as I am trying to set up allotments here in a back field which I own. I have 4 interested parties so far and I have suggested £100 rent for the first full year. Plot size 8mx20m In order to get these folk land on which to grow I will need to do the following:
Fence the area (estimated cost £400 + cost of stock gates etc)
Put stones on a laneway to make it accessible (£200 perhaps)
Apply for planning permission for change of use from agricultural to allotments (£200 for application alone)
Draw up a legal agreement (solicitor's fees required to check N.Ireland implications)
Additional insurance to cover me for others being on my land ( not sure yet)
Water - pipe work taps etc.
Then ongoing costs such as trimming hedge down one side, keeping area tidy etc.
Obviously this is not going to give me much to play with. At the moment I am thinking of 10 plots. If I add my time to the costs at minimum wage then the out goings would be high. I see this taking a few years before break even point.
Round here folk are keen to get plots of land and prepared to pay a bit because there are such long lists on council plots. I know other private enterprises are charging more than I am. I hope I don't have to raise my costs just to keep the idea solvent.
I wish some-one in government would suggest that a good way to increase allotment provision would be to reduce the costs of application for change of land use. The £200 for an application shocked me!
Digeroo what are the charges on your site? Do you mind sharing?
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Welcome to A4A Salkeela... hope it goes OK and you manage to set up a site.. :)
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I see this taking a few years before break even point.
Most investments involving land will not break even in the first year so perhaps your expectations are unrealistic.
That said, private sites can charge whatever they like so the market will decide what rent is achievable. You may be able to keep your 10 plots full charging £1000 pa for each, if so good luck to you.
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I see this taking a few years before break even point.
Most investments involving land will not break even in the first year so perhaps your expectations are unrealistic.
I don't think I ever suggested break even in the first year! As I said "a few years before break even point" - How is that unrealistic?
Also remember I am not trying to buy the land as part of this... I already own it. & I'm not sure why you've made a dig about charging £1000 pa? I really don't see this as a profit making venture - not even in the future. I have some really nice folk interested. & I want to do my best for them, but I cannot afford to be a charity - or for this venture to be an ongoing drain on my own limited income.
Those who are lucky enough to have council plots really do get an outstanding deal.
@Saddad thanks for the welcome.
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I think if you can afford to put £10 on your mobile phone, have sky TV and use a tumble dryer you are not hard up.....!!!! I can't even afford to top up my phone at the moment. But I have my own allotment, and i don't moan about the price of it.. ( more the initial outlay, Shed, water butts, equipment etc etc)..
If you can afford the luxuries of life, like buying your food from Marks and spencers each week, getting your hair done once a month, and going abroad every year should think yourself very lucky and privaleged indeed.
Maybe a means tested Rent is fairer... ???
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Welcome Salkeela.
Given that you already own the land then really you should be prepared to swallow the startup costs. What is more important is the recurring annual costs to you and assuming they are substantially less than the £1,000 estimated income then you are a winner.
Most important is the uptake. 4 plots let at £100 each returns less than 10 plots let at £50 each. Empty plots will break you.
Good luck.