Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: shadowdragon on April 27, 2009, 16:25:41
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Had my plot a few weeks, it has been rotavated in previous years, and neglected for about six months, so full of weeds. anyway, I have started digging over by hand, and its taking an age to dig out all the weed roots (i think there maretail roots, not 100%, but there long whiteish roots). I am picking as much as possible out by hand.
Should I be doing this or just turning the soil and pulling out what comes up and ignoring what gets left buried under the soil? ???
I am getting funny looks from the old boys on the site that im being "too Scientific" and "going to extreams" :-[
Any opinons/advice greatfully received :D
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Hi Shadowdragon :)
You are doing the right thing, well done for being so thorough.
All the work you are doing now will save you work later on. Every piece of root you leave in will make more work later. You might try sieving the soil to get the roots out. As you just dump a mix of soil and roots in the sieve you aren`t working with each individual weed which is quicker. Unless your soil is wet or heavy in which case sieving doesn`t work.
It can take a long time but its worthwhile effort, don`t let anyone put you off doing things your own way. Once a yard strip is clear you can plant a couple of rows of whatever you like to eat so you will get a crop this season.
Best of luck, Col
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I am getting funny looks from the old boys on the site that im being "too Scientific" and "going to extreams"
Forget about them! they probably did the same things many years ago!
In my opinion the more you get out now the better it will be in the long term.
Don't worry too much if you don't get it all out look to the long term.
During the season you can keep on top of what does up up with the hoe.
It can take a year or two to get it all out!
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White roots sounds more like couch grass to me, blooming awful stuff.......worth getting it all out.
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I am getting funny looks from the old boys on the site that im being "too Scientific" and "going to extreams" :-[
Hi and congrats on the new plot.
I'm not sure what you mean by too scientific? It sounds like your doing really well so far, the more weeds you can pull out now the better and easier it will be later on in the season and next year.
As to the old boys, don't worry about them, they could well be thinking why bother we use chemicals :o.
If you don't get round to digging as thoroughly as you want you can always get some weed suppressant and plant through it, that way you will start to kill off the weeds and get a crop this year
1066
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If you don't remove all the roots depending what plant they are from they will most certainly sprout and your back to square one again,take your time digging it over,like Columbus said don`t let anyone put you off doing things your own way it will benefit you in the long run not them ;D
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Thanks for the replies ;D
Glad im doing it right, luckly on one half of the plot it has been already divided into what I call "Bays" with concrete slabs, they are approx 16ftx8ft, so i have divided each bay into three triangles with paths between them with kick boards (just to be different :P ). I have already done two bays (this has taken nearly two weeks) and planted out in one bay already.
When the old boy says "Too Scientific" I mean he thinks dividing the area up so i dont tread on it and making it easier to dig over and reach ect, and companion planting (Onions and carrots together), crop rotation, mounding up potatoes ect.
He says "it will rather grow or it wont". He has a rotavotor, and has offered to lend me it, but im convinced thats why theres so many weeds and weed roots now, as it was rotavated last season!!
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Aaahhhh now I understand - in other words not doing it his way!!!!
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Aaahhhh now I understand - in other words not doing it his way!!!!
Yeah, but he is a nice chap, and his advice on chicken keeping is vauable and been a great help, especially for sourcing chicken feed, ect. So hes not so much of a pain as I may give the impression. Just want to check that I am not doing all this digging and sitting in the dirt picking weed roots for nothing hehe. Another good thing about getting all the weeds out like i am is that I have lovley tilled soil ;D
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I spent ages clearing two beds of all the weeds at the end of last year. I have just planted some potatoes, carrots and onions and only found about 6 weeds growing. So it is well worth the effort.
As i was clearing the weeds i also dug in horse manure and mushroom compost, it has paid off as the ground was lovely to dig this time.
If you have triangle beds remember it will be a bit more difficult to net & rotavate than rectangular beds.
Neil
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I'd dig it over and leave every bit of weed in and that way I'd get the whole thing turned over as quickly as possible and let the elements at it. Then when the soil wasn't hanging on so tightly to the roots I'd pull them out as I planted stuff like potatoes. I tried your approach when I first got a plot and I found that there weren't enough hours in the day to get on top of the weeds.
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I'm doing it your way. Grtting everything i can out is taking ages but i think it's worth it. The couch grass is annoying as everytime you hit it you have lots of little bits to get out. I've never known a weed so good at hiding in about 2 seconds. The good thing i that whilst i'm clearing the weeds each bit is getting dug over at least 3 times so the soil is breaking up nicely. I've been at it since end of Feb. and i've got 4 large beds done and only have 3 small ones left.
I've planted 3 beds as i've finished and the fourth one i've got half planted as i worl on the other half. The ground was too hard and dry to dig by the weekend so i'm glad it's rained all day.
Just keep on going your own way. Use some of the advise given if thats what you want to do and say thank you and discard what you dont. Well done on what you've done so far :)
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Thanks, luckly im free until the end of september when uni starts, so the allotment is my only real focus at the moment.
I am saying thanks and using only what i feel i want to use, and trying some other stuff.
For example one of the bed is trianglar, i have planted onions round the outside, then on the inside of these i got carrot seeds, mixed them with compost and scattered this over the bed and raked it in, so that I dont have to thin them out. It was suggested that I sow in rows only.
Because this is my first season of allotmenteering, im experimenting and seeing what happens. And adjust my planting etc based on the results (too scientific :o )
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We're doing it your way too. Even taking all the roots out as we dig, we still get a fair bit of bindweed & other stuff popping up so I'm very glad we didn't rotavate them into tiny pieces before we started. Each to their own tho.
There's much ::) on our site about new fangled `university / trendy types' who want to do things their own way. To be fair tho, a lot of those people have been around for years have almost certainly seen many eager beavers come & go.
Have fun ;D
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My plot had been derelict for several years so had brambles, nettles, couch grass etc. I dug it out by hand and they haven't come back. It's worth the effort. Good luck!
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We're doing it your way too. Even taking all the roots out as we dig, we still get a fair bit of bindweed & other stuff popping up so I'm very glad we didn't rotavate them into tiny pieces before we started. Each to their own tho.
There's much ::) on our site about new fangled `university / trendy types' who want to do things their own way. To be fair tho, a lot of those people have been around for years have almost certainly seen many eager beavers come & go.
Have fun ;D
hehe, im 37 LOL, going to be a mature student. One chap on the site, said theres a lot with good intentions take on plots then come the first rain/cold spell you never see them anymore, and I can really understand some peoples standoffishness (is that a word!!!), but ive thought long and hard about an allotment before even applying even then I have waited 9 months for one! The triangle beds are there because they are functional and also different, they add something different to the plot, and looks quite funky. When i get to the other side of the plot im planning on Octaganal beds!!! Will be a talking point if nothing else LOL.
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"Live like you wanna live" :)
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I took over a plot, lots of Bindweed and other things that I don't recognise.
I've dug out the weeds in the same way your describing, breaking up the lumps with the fork and pulling out every little root, rock, nail and piece of glass I've seen.
I feel like I've been doing this for years (probably since February) and now have 3/4 of the plot dug and planted.
I do find shoots coming up, so I delicately dig out/pull up the offender to find it's a shoot from a fragment of root I've missed. So at least if it's kept on top of, the weeds make themselves obvious. So I believe we have gone the right way about it.
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Well done you, lets hope you can be as harsh with the "annual" weeds like poppies... i had fields of them in years two and three... :-[
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Sounds like you are going the right way about it to me and even if you aren't i've always been of the opinion that you won't learn without making mistakes and believe i have made plenty of them ;)
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Oops Shadowdragon - that wasn't a dig at Uni folks btw :-[ When the secretary showed us around our site the day we picked our plot, he described one of the other plotholders as `Uni types with strange ideas' & said they'd had a few (given we fall into that category... we kept quiet). They are lecturers (I believe, not met them) & the biggest problem seemed to be that they had chosen to have grass paths rather proper concrete or slabs & cultivate things other than your standard veggies.
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I can see why you would dig out those roots, and there is really no alternative. But I would say just one very thorough initial digging is enough. After that, don't dig any more.
For one thing, turning the soil brings to the surface old weed seeds, and they happily germinate. Secondly, good natural soil is composed of layers that build up on the surface.......leaves and old vegetation. Worms get into it, and you have a very fine soil structure that drains well.
Nature doesn't dig manure and compost in, and neither do I. It is enough to just spread compost on the surface, and in some cases work it in a bit with a fork, but I don't dig deep with a spade. The soil is beautiful, and I have few weed problems. Maybe that is because I pull them up as soon as I see them, and I don't let them run to seed.
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Oops Shadowdragon - that wasn't a dig at Uni folks btw :-[ When the secretary showed us around our site the day we picked our plot, he described one of the other plotholders as `Uni types with strange ideas' & said they'd had a few (given we fall into that category... we kept quiet). They are lecturers (I believe, not met them) & the biggest problem seemed to be that they had chosen to have grass paths rather proper concrete or slabs & cultivate things other than your standard veggies.
Hehe, I know exactly what u meant ;D
I used to be a lecturer LOL, just going back to retrain due to long term illness :(
The thing is ive not taken the plot on to save the environment, or lower my carbon footprint, ive done it as a place to go to get some exercise fresh air while doing something constructive. But I like to be different thats for sure ;D
Like I said to the old boy, if the triangles dont work, its only going to take an hour to pull up all the kickboards and restructure the bays. So ive lost nothing really. Plus when its done its will look really funky ;D ;D
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It sounds like there lots of successful digging going on well done all! Hard work but satisfying in the end. I'm still gradually working my way along my plot digging / weeding / digging / weeding. Its coming along. One thing I've found out here is that others have commented on what I'm doing as "doing it the proper way" whatever that is ::) But what matters is that I'm really enjoying the exercise, the progress, the learning, and hopefully soon eating more of my own veg.
And looking forward to next year (my 3rd) of not having to do as much clearing and breaking of new ground :D
And Busy Bee I know what you mean about needing the rain ;D
1066
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Well, I like the sound of the triangular beds. think it's good to try out new ideas. There's no reason why you can't make an allotment look good, and how you want it. If you find problems, you can change it next year. When I got my allotment it was just one big patch with no definition. I wanted it sectioned off so that I would not be overfaced. If you clear one of the little beds of weeds and cultivate it, it is an achievement. If it is just a corner of a big plot, you don't ever feel as though you have finished a job.I try to use all old things up and everything I would normally have slung out, now has possibilities. The more established allotmenteers give me advice when I ask but I also know that they skit at me behind my back about my ideas. I'm not bothered. They say they don't like things I have done but then try to replicate it the next year, makes me laugh really. There are a couple of jobs worthy people on site thatare very unfriendly and take on superior roles with water, mainly! Never been elected in the non existant commitee, just take charge. I take the rough with the smooth. If I don't want a chat, on goes the i pod!!!!!! :)
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Well, I like the sound of the triangular beds. think it's good to try out new ideas. There's no reason why you can't make an allotment look good, and how you want it. If you find problems, you can change it next year. When I got my allotment it was just one big patch with no definition. I wanted it sectioned off so that I would not be overfaced. If you clear one of the little beds of weeds and cultivate it, it is an achievement. If it is just a corner of a big plot, you don't ever feel as though you have finished a job.I try to use all old things up and everything I would normally have slung out, now has possibilities. The more established allotmenteers give me advice when I ask but I also know that they skit at me behind my back about my ideas. I'm not bothered. They say they don't like things I have done but then try to replicate it the next year, makes me laugh really. There are a couple of jobs worthy people on site thatare very unfriendly and take on superior roles with water, mainly! Never been elected in the non existant commitee, just take charge. I take the rough with the smooth. If I don't want a chat, on goes the i pod!!!!!! :)
Excatly my thoughs. Your not on the same plot as me are you, we have an unoffcial commitee too!!!!
I had the same idea, small beds are easier to tackle, its not overwhemlming by having to look at a bit expanse of soil that needs digging over. If I only have an hour in the future to be at the plot, i can easily fork over one of the triangle.
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If you've got self-appointed so-and-so's to deal with, then it might be worth starting a committee, as long as you can make sure they don't get on it!
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How do you dig out the corners or are they quite blunt?
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But what matters is that I'm really enjoying the exercise, the progress, the learning, and hopefully soon eating more of my own veg.
And Busy Bee I know what you mean about needing the rain ;D
1066
I know how you feel 1066. I'm loving it!! Leaving the digging for today as so much rain yesterday it will be too heavy. No pleasing me lol. Going all out for the rest of the wek to see how much i can get done. :)
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How do you dig out the corners or are they quite blunt?
To be honest thats the biggest problem, although they were easy to dig out when i was creating them as I just backfilled the kickboards but due to not beeing walked on, a hand fork should dig them out quite easily (i hope :o ). That may well be the flaw in the design that means I rip them out, who knows hehe.
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Sadly, if we were to start a real commitee,I think the silly old s*ds would be right there at the helm. I can't be bothered with all that. I jusat want to chill, garden and get some of my own veg!! LOL!
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Heres what im doing, the triangles are going to be opposites in each bay so they create a diamond pattern, you can see in the background the state it is/was. Also got a piccy of the weeds im pulling out, so a confirmation of what they are would be good :)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/BrettandJane/Allotment/AllotmentApril014.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l288/BrettandJane/Allotment/AllotmentApril018.jpg)
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We got out plot a couple years ago. It was a mess and in the beginning we dug through about a third of the allotment. The second year we finished about half. This year we'll try and do all but the back bit and do that we dig the potatoes up. (Heavy clay and loads of couch plus other deep nasty weeds)
And yes, everyone on out allotment site thinks we're nuts for putting in all that work. But the beds we dug last year are so nice! Only a little couch came in from the neighbors or paths that we haven't dug. Nothing like the tangled mess it was.
I agree, its worth the work!
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The plot's looking good ;D
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....... got a piccy of the weeds im pulling out, so a confirmation of what they are would be good :)
I would say the white roots are mostly couch grass. The brown roots might be couch grass after weedkiller, but possibly a bit too big for that and don't seem to have the little spiky bits coming off them. Would have said mint but that would probably be in leaf by now so not much help I'm afraid.
Still, looking good where it counts :)
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Looks like some of it could be Bindweed, to me. I have both Couch grass and Bindweed. a devil to tackle. All roots must be properly disposed of and not on a compost heap. :(
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HI,
Thanks ;D Glad im doing stuff right, im not putting the weeds and there roots on the compost, ive got three large piles which i was hoping to burn once they had dried off (unfortunatley had two full days of rain!!!).
I went down this morning and all that rain has made the ground a dream to work with, it just falls apart now :D
Hope to get down there tommorow and get really stuck in, seeing as ive been a bit over zealous at home with seedlings ect :o im going to have too many plants ready to put out, and not enough ground cleared!!!