Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Kea on April 20, 2009, 11:34:26
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Just back from holiday I popped up to my plot yesterday for a quick check only to find someone had stolen all but a tiny bit of my manure pile! >:(
Unbelievable.......it must have taken several hours in full view of anyone who was there.
I have been informed it might be a new plotholder who thought it was a communal heap........so when are communal heaps covered in weed suppressant fabric and carpet?
Now i will have to fork out £50 for a delivery of well rotted manure to replace my heap which after nearly a year was nicely rotted down.
i have to say I'm livid, having only just had my incinerator stolen a couple of months ago I'm wondering if everybody thinks my plot is a help yourself plot.
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Kea
I think you need to re word that a little the new plot holder will be forking out for a £ 50 well rotted manure pile on your behalf then i would watch im barrow it to where you want it whilst your sitting on a chair in the blazing sun drinking a nice cup of tea and dunking your bickies
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So sorry to read this Kea.
It recently happened on our site, the guy in the plot next to mine. It was there and then it wasn't, I'd just assumed he'd dug it all in. Bean poles went walkabouts too, hence me painting mine, but it's a little more difficult with manure you can't really paint that can you? ::)
They're the light fingered, not green fingered brigade >:(
Linda
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I have to track them down first!
But my informant was pretty certain and seemed to think I shouldn't be too cross because 'they are a nice couple'!
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Yes my next incinerator is going to not only have name and postcode (like the last one did!) but it will be padlocked to a metal stake driven well into the ground.
i thought about a paint effect to make it look rusty as I notice the rusty ones don't get stolen mine was 3 years old and hadn't gone rusty so it was very inviting.
However manure is much more difficult can't mark it in anyway.......though you would think someone who has been there longer might have pointed out that if it's covered up like that it belongs to someone.....even when I was a newbie i could tell that the covered heaps belonged to someone without asking.
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You need to find someone with a horse, friend told me yesterday that she has piles of well rotted manure and cannot get rid of it.
Can't you gently tell your 'nice' couple they have made a bit of a mistake?
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I know someone with a horse but I don't have a trailer or van and only a small boot plus an OH who doesn't want manure carted about in the back of the car and I would have to drive backwards and forwards many times to collect the manure from about 10 miles away it would actually cost me more than the £50 for the organic composted down manure from a horse charity.
I will be telling the nice couple of their mistake don't you worry! And I will be nice about it.
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I have permission from the plot holder next to mine, who is giving it up, to help myself. I still feel like a criminal and always ask her when I see her so she can see what I am taking, she may well want to take it home. I would put a big sign up, KEEP OFF MY ALLOTMENT, or else. Most people on our site stay on their own allotment and only go on other peoples at their invitation. Can't understand what they were doing on your allotment in the first place, let alone taking your manure. I did have a peace lily stolen when I first took on the plot but think that was a genuine mistake as it was the only thing I had planted and the allotment was still overgrown, but I was still upset when I saw a big hole and no plant. Hope you get it sorted.
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Some people. I know it's not the most sociable thing to do but last year I went down to my allotment to find someone rotovating their plot with MY rotovator...the nerve of the bloke. He whinged and gave me a mouthfull of expletives when I asked for a contribution for the petrol used. I'm having the last laugh though because I topped his water butt up with Roundup...that'll sort his seedlings out.
Don't have a go at me because this lottie holder is well known for his anti social behaviour....bl**dy incomers!!
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Some people. I know it's not the most sociable thing to do but last year I went down to my allotment to find someone rotovating their plot with MY rotovator...the nerve of the bloke. He whinged and gave me a mouthfull of expletives when I asked for a contribution for the petrol used. I'm having the last laugh though because I topped his water butt up with Roundup...that'll sort his seedlings out.
Don't have a go at me because this lottie holder is well known for his anti social behaviour....bl**dy incomers!!
;D LMAO Bet he doesnt use your tools again. How did he come to get access to your rotovator?
Im bery new to the allotment but the other plot holders seem a friendly bunch and we are already giving each other stuff and letting people use each others things. I love it up there.
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Personally , if you find out for sure I'd supply them with some human or dog "manure"! >:(
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Oh dear I borrowed my neighbours hose pipe today, Hope she does not have any roundup, though I did water her seedlings as a rental charge.
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Blimey! :o RoundUp! Remind me to never upset you! ;D
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Even if someone did the most heinous thing I could think of I dont think I could ever lower myself to put weedkiller in their water butt, maybe I'm a soft touch.
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I topped his water butt up with Roundup...
Do you find that a reasonable response? personally (I'll hold back) I find that amazing and if it was up to me you'd be of the site faster than a rabbit down a drain pipe.
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I'm with you Ted, that seems like a terrible thing to do, surely there is another way to deal with this person - two wrongs...etc...etc
Lushy x
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Some people. I know it's not the most sociable thing to do but last year I went down to my allotment to find someone rotovating their plot with MY rotovator...the nerve of the bloke. He whinged and gave me a mouthfull of expletives when I asked for a contribution for the petrol used. I'm having the last laugh though because I topped his water butt up with Roundup...that'll sort his seedlings out.
Don't have a go at me because this lottie holder is well known for his anti social behaviour....bl**dy incomers!!
Yes they did wrong.I hope you were only joking about the Roundup.Your crime would be far worse than the one they did. >:(
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Hope you're able to get something sorted out Kea. Its just a real no no going onto someone elses plot if they're not there, let alone taking anything. It also sounds like the other plot holders just stood back and watched when they must have known it wasn't communal etc.
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Yes there is one guy I'm friendly with who is there all the time ...he better have been away on holiday!!!!!
It must have taken them a couple of hours at least to take my manure.
I haven't checked my wheelbarrow is still there in it's hiding spot :o
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I haven't checked my wheelbarrow is still there in it's hiding spot :o
Ahh, sounds like you now have the motive and the means established ..........
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Wheelbarrow still in it's hiding place!
Left note for the suspect.
Yes the guy I'm friendly with did spot them and he's the reason they stopped and took some back...about one barrowload when they'd taken the rest.
He couldn't see them as my shed is in the way and there is a communal heap of woodchips mostly gone nearby but he assumed they were getting that then he asked them and they said no they were getting manure from under the carpet. He told them it was owned and he said they looked really upset but they'd put most of it straight on their plot.
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So they didn't do the return journey and shovel & barrow it back to its original place then!
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Give them a choice- pay you or bring it back. >:(
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only one token load by the looks...they would have had to separate it from their soil first.
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so why don`t you just speak / confront to them about it :)
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But my informant was pretty certain and seemed to think I shouldn't be too cross because 'they are a nice couple'
Yes, so was Bonnie and Clyde apparently.
I had this...
(http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/gallery/6711_18_03_09_10_10_03.jpg)
...delivered to my plot but the dopy tractor driver dumped it on the plot next to the one I wanted it on. Underneath that lot are 9 rows of Cara and Desiree.
As I was moving it (All by hand), a new comer half a dozen plots up turned up next to me with his fork and barrow and promptly started filling his barrow. When I explained that I could manage (didn't want anyone else trampling on my spuds anymore than had been done already) he said he didn't mind as he only wanted a dozen or so barrowloads for his bean trench and I could have the rest if I wanted...
Having just discovered 2 1\2 ton of hoarse sh*t dumped on top of my spuds I was already livid to the point of bursting a blood vessel. Felt quite sorry for him afterwards, don't like seeing grown men cry!
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He got away without your fork did he? If not we'll come and visit you inside... :-X
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He got away without your fork did he? If not we'll come and visit you inside... :-X
I'm afraid my tongue was infinitely sharper than my fork.
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If it was me who made a mistake like that I'd be mortified and quite happy to pay for it - why not approach this couple like that, saying the manure cost this much and you assume they'll be happy to reimburse you?
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Plot 69 that guy would have got my fork through his foot. My manure pile was a year more rotted down than yours so can't be replaced with fresh....Value added!
The communal pile, sorry I have mentioned this before, was put in front of my plot and that dopey driver put over a tonne on my fence!
I would like to approach the couple in person but they haven't been there and i'm normally there during the week my weekends are taken up with providing taxi service to Music school and shopping etc. I've only been back from holiday since Sunday and I think the crime is over 2 weeks old. Hence a note in a plastic bag tied to their gate with my contact details.
I'm wondering who told them it was free to take >:(
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Dingerbell,
I'd have used Sodium chlorate, so that he's reminded next year as well; thieving B'strd.
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No reply to my note but they have removed the note and made sure that the manure they had left is hidden!
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the fact that the communal heap is adjascent to your plot, and that you hadn't moved it, but just covered it up with a bit of carpet makes the situation a tricky one. are your plot boundaries well marked? can you post a photo of the general area, and of the site where the manure was?
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But my informant was pretty certain and seemed to think I shouldn't be too cross because 'they are a nice couple'
Yes, so was Bonnie and Clyde apparently.
I had this...
(http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/gallery/6711_18_03_09_10_10_03.jpg)
...delivered to my plot but the dopy tractor driver dumped it on the plot next to the one I wanted it on. Underneath that lot are 9 rows of Cara and Desiree.
As I was moving it (All by hand), a new comer half a dozen plots up turned up next to me with his fork and barrow and promptly started filling his barrow. When I explained that I could manage (didn't want anyone else trampling on my spuds anymore than had been done already) he said he didn't mind as he only wanted a dozen or so barrowloads for his bean trench and I could have the rest if I wanted...
Having just discovered 2 1\2 ton of hoarse sh*t dumped on top of my spuds I was already livid to the point of bursting a blood vessel. Felt quite sorry for him afterwards, don't like seeing grown men cry!
If there's 9 rows under that heap they are probably planted too close together anyway, you couls spread it about and let them grow through it
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don't folk meet the chap on site who is delivering the stuff? how does the delivery person get onto the site, to be able to put it in the wrong place?
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Today I meet the lady on the plot next to the thieves she's not pleased with them either. She got her plot (half) first and marked out the boundary better with stakes and string. She came back one day to find they'd put a fence up and her stakes were still visible on their bonfire!
She said they were quite smug about the new supply of manure they had!
Looks like I have a new best friend! ;D
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Today I meet the lady on the plot next to the thieves she's not pleased with them either. She got her plot (half) first and marked out the boundary better with stakes and string. She came back one day to find they'd put a fence up and her stakes were still visible on their bonfire!
She said they were quite smug about the new supply of manure they had!
I'm afraid I'd consider that a declaration of war and respond appropriately.
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I'd get the thieving barstards thrown off the plot then look at their smug faces while your waving goodbye. >:( >:( >:(
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My feelings exactly Kea. Have you got a commitee on your site. If so report the matter to them. These folks obviously have no regard for other peoples stuff.
This is the worst kind of vandalism. You just don't expect things like this from your fellow allotment holders.
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I think I'd let them be smug about their load of free manure and then, when they've toiled away all summer growing whatever they've planted, I'd be equally as smug about the "free produce" you just happened to find on their plot ;D
Or you could let their crops ripen sufficiently and then give them a dose of roundup.
It wouldn't be as bad if they'd come over and apologised but the fact that they know it was someone else's and are still being smug about it really pisses me off. I hate people like that. Anyone nicks stuff off my plot better be ready for a ruck >:(
FA x
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Maybe their neighbour is trying to stir up trouble seeing as she doesnt like them. Yes they were wrong for taking the manure but it may have just been a simple mistake and they may be extremely embarrassed and dont know what to say. Maybe they dont have much money and are worried about having to pay for it to be replaced. I dont know. Maybe they are just smug thieves. I do think the OP needs to speak to them herself though to get the facts. Maybe someone else removed the note so they havnt seen it. It just seems to me that people are quick to suggest vandalism, two wrongs dont make a right. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and actually speak to them to resolve this issue.
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To a certain extent I agree with the above post.
The only way to resolve this is by talking to them :-\
If they are indeed smug thieves then this will become apparent instantly.
And if that is the case its time for round up.
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the fact that the communal heap is adjascent to your plot, and that you hadn't moved it, but just covered it up with a bit of carpet makes the situation a tricky one. are your plot boundaries well marked? can you post a photo of the general area, and of the site where the manure was?
Sorry missed this before.
The communal heap has long gone........end of October last year and was a one off we don't usually get deliveries of manure and these people are new.
Yes I'd love to talk to them but I haven't managed to be there at the same time as them. I don't have time at weekends usually for the allotment and even when I was up at the weekend they weren't there. I'm not close enough to keep popping in to check. I will try another note though I think it unlikely someone moved the note as I tied it to the gate so it could only be seen from inside their plot, and protected in a plastic bags.
If they are so embarrassed about taking my manure they could have left me a note with an apology at the very least...they were told which plot the manure belonged to.
As to them being poor......I have a wilkinson's wire mesh fence they have put up a very fancy, heavy duty plastic coated chain link fencing brand new stuff.....they look like the richest people on site!
This stuff http://www.meshdirect.co.uk/Green-Chain-Link-Fence-1200-mm-High-4-feet-c-95.html and it's 4ft high!
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If this happened to me....
I would be livid, I would be breathing fire 24 hours a day. But.....
So far it has cost you a pile of good manure, you have made every reasonable effort to address the situation but the people are below that. Don't let this cost you any more ( ie the annoyance and anger and bad feelings about going to the plot).
The people will get their cumuppance I am sure - but let someone else dish it out and get on with the important stuff like pricking out and trying to find another bit of space in the greenhouse :)
Hope I'm not sounding sanctimonius.
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I wouldn't be as charitable as RBT because I wouldn't have another £50 to fork out. It's theft. If you've left your phone number and given them a chance to explain / apologise / put it right and they haven't then I'd do 3 things.
Leave another note telling them that you are doing the following:
Make a written report to whoever runs your site, explaining what has happened and letting them know you will be reporting the matter to the Police.
Report the matter to the Police.
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This really goes back to basics. If you steel of another plot you break any tenency agreement and should be evicted with no recourse for re applying.
See the allotment act 1908 and Local Goernment act 1972.
Report them to either your management committee or the Local Council, whoever runs the allotments
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I dont think its fair to make assumptions on how much money they have. I have a fabulous fence around my allotment. Its all proper fencing, 3-4 foot high and very well made because I did it myself ;D
The best thing is it didnt cost me anything more than the cost of the nails because I recycled it. I knew a fence near us was going to be bulldozed down and dumped so I got in first and asked for it. The other plot holders thought we had spent a fortune, especially as one of them got a quote for £2000 for a fence but in all honesty it cost us less than a fiver.
If the OP regards this as theft which of course it is as there hasnt been any other explanation as yet why hasnt it been reported to the police???? It would have been my second action after trying to speak to the new plot holders and posting on here about it would have come later when I had the full facts.
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starting out, just my oppinion but...
If the OP regards this as theft which of course it is as there hasnt been any other explanation as yet why hasnt it been reported to the police???? It would have been my second action after trying to speak to the new plot holders and posting on here about it would have come later when I had the full facts.
posting on here would have been the 2nd thing i did after looking to see where it was if any one knew what had happened
i would have posted here to see what my friends thought, to check i wasnt over reacting.
lbb
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I agree with LBB. Thats what this site is all about. When things go pear shaped we try to help each other out and give advice if we can. However I do agree that you should notify the police about the theft.We do that on our site everytime something goes astray.
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I agree I would have posted on here too but I would have called the police immediately. I am not making excuses for the new plot holders but I do think everyone is quick to assume the worst in people and dont want to think it may be a mistake that has gone on far to long and made far too big by people screaming theft and poison their stuff.
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I wouldn't be as charitable as RBT because I wouldn't have another £50 to fork out. It's theft. If you've left your phone number and given them a chance to explain / apologise / put it right and they haven't then I'd do 3 things.
Leave another note telling them that you are doing the following:
Make a written report to whoever runs your site, explaining what has happened and letting them know you will be reporting the matter to the Police.
Report the matter to the Police.
Actually nothing charitable about what I said - its more in terms of damage limitation - I might have lost £50 but I wouldnt want to lose the enjoyment of my allotment.
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Well I was giving them a chance. And yes I needed a few opinions before I jumped in and over-reacted.
I just feel a bit silly reporting a pile of manure stolen even though after the incinerator was stolen a couple of months ago they did ask me to report any other theft from the allotments not matter how silly I thought it might be.
I will leave them another note shortly. However my OH is concerned that they might retaliate and put weedkiller in my water butt or steal more stuff e.g. my fruit and other crops.
They don't have water butts and don't need them as they can nearly reach a water trough by leaning over their fence.
£50 is a fortune to me especially as today I have just paid £20 to replace the stolen incinerator plus more for a metal stake, chain and padlock to secure it with!...so in fact nearly £30 for that.
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It's a rotten situation because you just don't expect other allotmenteers to behave like that. If you're worried about retaliation it might work out better to leave the police out of it and jump up and down at the council to enforce their rules. If there's anything in the rules about stealing or nuisance then the council should be demanding £50 compensation from the theiving scroats (which the council hand over to you) or else they're evicted. It's then an issue between the scroats and the council.
That, and what raisedbedted said.
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I think it hurts when something like this happens because allotmenteerers (is there such a word) are on the whole kind, friendly generous people & would much rather give. I was upset when some onions I had been given vanished. OH said it has really got to you hasn't it, but then I put a message on here that I needed some tumbler tomato seeds & the response was immediate. They were here 3 days later. I also think Kea has a lot on her plate ATM & this is not going to help matters.
Janet
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ive had the same happen on mine too, and some of the kids tools! have made plenty of loud comments about unkind ppl stealing things, problem is the pile and shed r near the rd and parking spaces so its just 2 easy i guess? funny thing is the buggers who stole the muck left theyre spade behind so i hid it :) ha ha bluddy ha! lots of other ppl have had things taken too, things that only fellow allotmenteers wouldve wanted, and re muck, if uve the patience u could always dig coloured beads into it, before u leave it to rot, would take them ages 2 fish out if they were so inclined, more time than itd take 2 fork in, and yeah theyd be in ur beds but so are stones and these would be pretty :)
most recently a shed and greenhouse have been taken off the site :( theres some nasty ppl around thats for sure :( brazen ones too :((
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This attitude of what is yours is mine and what is mine is mine seems quite prevalent nowadays. We have many new plot holders as half the site has now been re-released for letting after years of the council holding it back for future building land.
We have newbies parking on our existing holders' plots, burning smoky, stinky fires, dogs fouling, theft of produce, music blaring etc... Our committee is weak (but then would you confront these people) and it has taken them years to be convinced that they should get plotholders off the site if they don't cultivate theirs. They have actioned this with a letter to the plot holders.
But I won't go on the committee so have to suffer like the rest of us.
I thought that there was a general rule in life that you don't go on someones land without permission, don't steal, you are polite to your neighbours and be charitable to those less fortunate... my wife says that I live in cloud cuckoo land...
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I thought that there was a general rule in life that you don't go on someones land without permission, don't steal, you are polite to your neighbours and be charitable to those less fortunate... my wife says that I live in cloud cuckoo land...
cloud cuckoo land sounds likes a lovely place to be, may i join you? :)
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I'll move too... :)
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Its a sad fact that in any group in society there will always be thieves :(
How about making a sign and sticking it in the ground where your muck was saying " thank you for stealing the manure that was here and not having the good grace to replace it ! May your all your plants die and your soil be barren ! "
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I have been holding back from commenting as I do understand what a difficult problem you have Kea.
A lot of people are assuming that your new neighbours removed the manure with the intention of stealing it - maybe - as was first thought they thought that is was a communal heap - but until you speak directly to them I wouldn't presume anything. They may be perfectly nice people that have made a mistake and are completely embarrassed by the whole situation - I would be had I made a mistake like that!
Throughout my life I have met people from all walks of life and I try never to prejudge them on appearance, what other people say about them, or where they live or whatever. I have met some wonderful people among alcaholics, thieves lords and ladies. I have also met some totally ghastly people. But always give people a chance.
Velorex complains about newbies on his plot - but I bet he/she hasn't been up to them - said hello and chatted to them. You "won't go on the committee so have to suffer" People need to be pro-active in their lives - not just suffer because they aren't prepared to do anything about it. I live in cuckoo land and have not had many nasty surprises!! Treat people kindly, friendly - whoever they are and - generally - you may be pleasantly surprised at the effect your kindness has on them.
That terrible cliche about a stranger being a friend you haven't yet me can be fairly true but you can't expect them all to come to your door smiling and sunny.
Kea I hope you get your problem sorted - I do understand that it is a lot of money to you (it would be to me too) but speak to the neighbours before judging them.
Old Bird
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I think the second thing I would do if someone stole my manure is post here so that some of you might consider writing to me while I was staying in HM Hotels.
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Well finally got to speak to one of the culprits today.
Didn't seem very sorry, claimed to have replaced all of manure with two bags of horse manure (my heap before I went on holiday was a 7ft across and 5 ft high flattish top dome i.e. it wasn't a pyramid shape the top was almost as wide as the bottom. You can of course see how big the base of the heap was as there is no grass on that area! Now it's about 6 inches high and 2ft across! Plus the replacement manure is of unknown origin and less than two barrow loads compared to the 40+ barrow loads I put there.
Continued to claim I'd hardly had any manure in the heap at all (despite witnesses saying they spent sevral hours scurrying back and forwards with wheel barrow loads before anyone asked what they were doing.
Then she reached in her pocket and pulled out a huge roll of £20 much to my astonishment....and said I'll tell you what i give you £20 as well as the manure we replaced it with...and smirked. I declined and walked off saying you got my note and I know exactly how much manure I had before you helped yourself.
I'm her attitude could only be described as smug I'm afraid.
The funny thing was she'd just had a huge load (4 tonnes someone else told me) and we spoke across her heap. I mentioned she had a lot of work to do to shift it because if people heard that she helped herself to my heap they might think they were justified in helping themselves particualry because her's was completely blocking the acces road!
She'll have a bad back tomorrow at the speed she was clearing that heap in the 2 1/2 hours I was there ....never seen anyone shovel so fast! ;D
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report it to thePolice, they might be interested !
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I can't believe that attitude! :o
At the very very least she should be barrowing some of her huge heap back to your allotment.
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it might be contaminated let her keep it, anyway her time will come just wait. Kea do what feels right to you (in relation to reporting the issue, etc). and since you are next to such dishonest people it might be an idea to photograph and or mark things that might go for a walk (I like the idea of coloured beads in the heap), so you'll have evidence to back up your side of things if ever you need to again (hopefully you won't have to deal with stuff like this again).
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To reply to Old bird...yes I have spoken to many of the new plot holders when they started arriving. I have offered strawberry plants back last Autumn, advice on what does well on my plot, given some general information about where to source manure, and generally (I think) been welcoming. However, what I did not expect from some of them (not all) was the pushy, arrogant, I can get away with anything attitude and the "what are you going to do about it" way of life they have brought with them.
I now try and get to the site when there are less of them there so my pattern of visits has changed.
Last year I had 2 complete rows of new potatoes dug up and stolen and others have had stuff stolen too. Not because of the new arrivals I am sure but suggest to some plot holders that the gate should be padlocked everytime they pass through it and what do I get...abuse
I have also regularly been to the AGMs but, as I don't shout, I get ignored. I just keep my head down and hope that what I plant comes up and I get the chance to harvest it.
A bit of common decency and consideration for others should surely not be out of the question
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Find the friendly people and cultivate them. The arrogant ones may be too arrogant to learn, in which case they may not last long!
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I think that I would have taken the £20. If I was not going to report it to the police. It was an admission of guilt and even if they were convicted, I know that any 'fine' would not have gone into my pocket.
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You do know that if you let them get away with this Kea they will steal from you again dont you?
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It is a shame you hadn't claimed it to be contaminated and you were leaving it for all residue to clear (3years or so) that would have wiped any smug looks off their faces. ;D
MP
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I am a big believer in what goes around, comes around. They will get theirs and while i don't normally wish ill on people, lets hope it is sooner rather than later. :)
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It is a shame you hadn't claimed it to be contaminated and you were leaving it for all residue to clear (3years or so) that would have wiped any smug looks off their faces. ;D
MP
Yes actually it is contaminated which is why I was planning to leave it for another 6 months but not with anything that would bother them too much. It was obvious when i got it that the cows had been treated with wormer as there were no worms in it even after 6 months.
I like the idea of coloured beads that's not a bad idea though they did confess. However their plot neighbour is my new best friend, she is very nice anyway and she feels intimidated by them and I'm guessing they won't like me popping over to say hello to her!
Tell me who carries about rolls of £20 notes at the allotment anyway? Looked like at least £200!
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Most of the idea's people have suggested for retaliation are childish!!
I would report this because if they're happy to take your manure they may do the same with your crops! someone on our site took some of mine this week and the council has now issued him with a final warning.
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Hi Kea, well at least you finally managed to speak to them and say your bit.
I'm with Thifasmom, take regular photos
And hope you have a good season on the plot
1066
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Aha, so there is a twist in the tale. The manure they took was cow manure contaminated with a substance which kills worms.
May be the tale is not yet over.
They say God works on mysterious ways. So, perhaps time will tell. I will keep watching this space to see how you report their crops fair over the summer.
There are a lot of reasons why some one would be on site with a lot of money on them. I can't say that is good reason to criminalise some one.
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It is a shame you hadn't claimed it to be contaminated and you were leaving it for all residue to clear (3years or so) that would have wiped any smug looks off their faces. ;D
MP
Yes actually it is contaminated which is why I was planning to leave it for another 6 months but not with anything that would bother them too much. It was obvious when i got it that the cows had been treated with wormer as there were no worms in it even after 6 months.
I like the idea of coloured beads that's not a bad idea though they did confess. However their plot neighbour is my new best friend, she is very nice anyway and she feels intimidated by them and I'm guessing they won't like me popping over to say hello to her!
Tell me who carries about rolls of £20 notes at the allotment anyway? Looked like at least £200!
I'd keep a close eye on what they grow then, it might not be your average fruit and veg! :P
Good luck with this! >:(
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Oh Kea!
I am sorry that you have found them to be unpleasant and not embarrassed!
Takes all to make a world - as with other posters - hopefully - wait a while and they will get their come uppance!
You will, I hope, savour any moments when things go wrong on their plot and each one will be worth a barrowful of your manure!
Old Bird
;)
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Waiting for some sort of reply gave them the option of helping pay for most of my new manure! I'll give them 14 days from the day I left them a letter saying i expected compensation and that they could take their barrow load and a half of replacement manure of unknown source (provided them info on contamination of manure by aminopyralid!) so they understand why I don't want their stuff....also 1 and 1/2 barrow loads does not replace 40+ barrow loads anyway. If I don't get a reply i will just report it as theft the rest is their problem.
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Kea I'm not 100% sure but I think if you want someone to respond in a given time you need to put "time is of the essence" in the letter.
Janet
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Kea I'm not 100% sure but I think if you want someone to respond in a given time you need to put "time is of the essence" in the letter.
Janet
If you want a contract fulfilled by a specific date, yes, you need those words because time is not ordinarily an essentialy part of a contract, but when you're giving someone a chance to do the decent thing before you escalate matters, no, just giving them a reasonable time is what's necessary for you to be seen as behaving reasonably.
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On our site anyone caught stealing is given instant termination - they are off.
If anyone wants stuff that I have all they got to do is ask - to parphrase the good book "Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and you shall find, steal and I`ll come down on you like a ton of bricks"
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I liked the idea of weedkiller in the water butt myself
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On our site anyone caught stealing is given instant termination - they are off.
If anyone wants stuff that I have all they got to do is ask - to parphrase the good book "Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and you shall find, steal and I`ll come down on you like a ton of bricks"
;D some how and can't recall reading any verses quite like ;D
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I liked the idea of weedkiller in the water butt myself
Dont know about that, sometimes I wash my hands etc in the water butt. Death or cancer seems like excessive revenge.
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Kea I'm not 100% sure but I think if you want someone to respond in a given time you need to put "time is of the essence" in the letter.
Janet
I didn't make any contract with them in the first place and quite frankly it is over a months since they helped themselves so I have already given them time to sort it out.
I wouldn't do anything in revenge (bar scaring her into moving 4 tonne of topsoil quickly!) anything you do can be done back to you. However one of the other plot holders who told me what they had done before he noticed, by which time they'd taken the lot, has had a mysterious break in http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,51482.msg522270.html#msg522270.
We wondered if that was revenge for informing!
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The continuing saga.......
Today I found a reply tied to my fence. A 2 page letter in which the plotholder who took my manure was very patronising and unapologetic!
He claimed he was not aware that manure could be 'bagsyed' by covering it up with carpet.......implies it just landed there and i covered it up with carpet or in my case a piece of (specially bought) weed suppressant fabric. When actually i barrowed it there!
He then went on to tell me i was guilty of bullying and harassing him (with two very polite letters?)and his partner. He quoted the Theft (amendment) 1996 Act to me claiming it wasn't theft as he wasn't aware it was anyone's property! The accused me of slander because I mentioned in my second letter that people had already started to refer to them as the 'people who took my manure'. That was everyone told me when I came back from holiday not what I said!!! i did say that doesn't go down well with other plotholders...and it doesn't.
I have also been told that my tying the letter to his gate is trespass and harassment and warned that in future this will constitute trespass and harassment and that i can reply to his letter if i wish by attaching a letter to the plot notice board.....very tempting but not in an envelope open for all to see!
He also claimed the replacement manure was better than the stuff they took as it was very well rotted being at least 20 yesrs old!!!!! Well past it's best then and of very little value nutritionally.
Not much else i can do, our association chairman and his wife came along just after i received this letter and read it and were stunned by it's tone and content but this guy is not a member of the association....yet!
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Kea, I would be inclined to have the Sgt of your local Community Policing team take at look at his letter - let him/her decide if theft trumps trespass and 'harassment'.
If you place your letters on outside of their fence from the community paths, it is not trespass and in any case that is a civil matter.
I really can't bear bullies.
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Not much else i can do, our association chairman and his wife came along just after i received this letter and read it and were stunned by it's tone and content but this guy is not a member of the association....yet!
and if your committee have anything about them he won't pass his probationary period...
Theft is grounds for immediate expulsion... >:(
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They shouldn't be accepted in the Association after that, no matter whether that affects their tenancy or not!
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Our committee doesn't have any powers it's more a mutual benefit association and membership is voluntary/optional. i have however kept the Town Clerk informed of the situation.
Yes the letter reminds me of the sort of letter I get from my ex husband who ironically shares a forename with this guy!
Bullies always think of calling their victim bullies to excuse themselves. I was told by his neighbouring plotholder that he was 'pugnacious' now I see what she means.
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He quoted the Theft (amendment) 1996 Act to me claiming it wasn't theft as he wasn't aware it was anyone's property!
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/Ukpga_19960062_en_1 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/Ukpga_19960062_en_1)
Where does it say that then ???
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...and in any case, ignorance is no defence >:( >:(
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Kea, that letter is farsical. Agree with showing to your community officer. As for bullying, I unfortunately have to be aware of the policies/definitions of this at work....the "gentleman" is deluded and if anything is projecting his behaviour.
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He quoted the wrong act - that one is an amendment which adds new offences. The defintion of theft according to the correct 1968 Act is:
A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;
An accused has to have the dishonest intention. If the accused thinks that s/he has the right to something, then no theft has been committed. The wrong will then be a civil one.
In this case, ignorance is a defence.
In fact, the 'ignorance' is not a defence only means that you cannot dishonestly appropriate another person's property etc and then claim you did not know that 'theft' was against the law. If you commit and offence, the fact that you did not know it was an offence is not a defence. If you did not commit an offence, as this person claims, then knowledge of the law is irrelevant.
As an aside, there is a reasonableness test. A person cannot claim to have thoguht that property did not belong to another if a reasonable person would have known it did. If they then take it without consent, they are acting dishonestly.
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Kea hes bullying you, and Im sure he wouldnt have done this if you had been a man.
Report him to the police for theft, show the police the letters you wrote trying to sort it out and tell them that you are afraid of him. Ask your friendly plot holders who saw your manure to say how big the pile was etc and the ask the guy who saw them removing your manure to write somethig for you.
You have tried to be 'nice' to these people nows the time to get tough.
PS I feel like bringing my huge six foot husband and sons plus a few friends to stand at your side while you reclaim your manure and to warn these people not to come near you or your plot again.
I HATE BULLIES!!!
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I blame Fearnley Whittingthingumy, he has done so much for repopularising the allotment but has failed to impress the code of values and expectations of conduct.
Why do all allotments not make a booklet available to all newbies which introduces such things as a "potted" history of the site, rules, guidelines etc. That way the process of marking your propoerty, marking your manure heap, water butt etc is as clearly explained as the process of not taking anothers preperty. It may be a downloadable resource from some website which needs very little editing to suit your site.
Whilst on the topic, do all allotments not have a committe, or a warden whose decision is final in neighbour disputes.
I also agree that retaliation by destroying someone's plants, may be the food for their children's table, is totally abhorrent and if they wish to behave like that then they should get elected to parliament.
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May be, just may be it was a genuine mistake, and the situation is just getting out of hand. A load of pallets were left next to the communal manure, that anyone can take, and the pallets all disappeared. Apparently they weren't for communal use as someone can arranged for a lorry to drop them off. I think it is silly to let the argument esculate, I know it is annoying, but perhaps let it drop and hopefully you will all become friends.
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Surely if it was a genuine mistake, then the person making the mistake should apologise.
What a great shame. One of the nice things for me about allotmenting is how nice everyone is. Everyone is helpful and there is a super community spirit.
When I said I was going on holiday I got loads of volunteers to water.
An incident like this spoils the whole atmosphere.
I agree with the others who say forget it. It is clearly upsetting you. Do not spoil your relationship with others on the site. Go back to enjoying your allotment.
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Thanks for your support.
Asbean thanks for looking up that Act...it is amusing that he got it wrong...that cheers me up so much on it's own.
Well it probably was a genuine mistake but their response to me was just rude and made the whole thing worse. If you 'sneer' at someone when you say sorry it just doesn't sound sincere...it was like being back it school and sounded like she was going to follow it with something 'nah nah nah followed by her poking out her tongue' it was the attitude that really annoyed me.
I've told the Town Clerk what's been going on. What is really funny is this guy quoting back to me the contract I helped write!!!!
I'll go and have an informal chat to a community police officer in case they decide to get nasty because of course people on site are pointing them out (even before I knew my heap was stolen while I was still on holiday) as the people who took my manure heap but of course it will be me that he blames!
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[quote author=
Whilst on the topic, do all allotments not have a committe, or a warden whose decision is final in neighbour disputes.
I belong to a site that does not have an association or controlled by a warden. It works well without such a thing. We have a person that deals with the showing the plots and then advising our owners in this case a private company, They did try to form an association but no one really wanted it. Most disputes are settled amicably between the parties involved. A much more adult way to do things.We do swaps and have Bar B Q's and drink tea (mostly) at each others plot. Share info etc so no advantage can be seen by having some person or persons telling us what to do. It works well here tho its not to say that other sites may need help and advice.
[/quote]
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When things like this happens it really takes away the joy of having an allotment. You always get a few folks on the site who think that they can flout the rules or take advantage of others when there are no written codes.
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Kea,
This has been a long thread & I appreciate the 'wrongdoing'.
Now then:
1) Do you know who did it?
2) There's no legal/Association come back on the guilty party?
3) Approach the 'guilty party' & call a meeting on the plot.
4) How tall are you & how tall is the guilty party?
5) If the plot slopes, stand on the upside.
6) Look the 'party' in the eye/state your case/move a pace forward/ stand on his toes & nutt the bas***d.
7) Job done - no come back!
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Hi all,
There will probably be a load of feedback on this topic, but 'FCS' deal with these probs.
If you live in the sort of area that is affected by these issues - you have to deal with it.
It's the way of the world I'm afraid to say, there is an increasing attitude to 'I WAN'T SUMMA DAT' then 'I WANNIT & I'M GONNA AV IT'!
So what are you 'gonna do'?
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Get a ton of type 1 or ballast (building aggregate) delivered to his plot ;)
It won't cost you a lot of money and it'll be a real nightmare for him to remove!
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His letter to you can be used in court as an admission that he took your manure.
Manure is a valuable comodity on an allotment site.
GO TO THE POLICE
We have done it when an ex plot holder took produce by just turning up and helping them selves.
The police actually got a result for us without the matter going to court and it worked out well.
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His letter to you can be used in court as an admission that he took your manure.
Manure is a valuable comodity on an allotment site.
GO TO THE POLICE
We have done it when an ex plot holder took produce by just turning up and helping them selves.
The police actually got a result for us without the matter going to court and it worked out well.
I didn't because I thought I might be dealing with reasonable people who had made a genuine mistake. However now I see I am wrong, I was warned by their plot neighbour that they are not reasonable people but my view is everyone is due one chance which they have now had. I will visit my local police station after the weekend (when they're open!).
I have my own tall boys (7ft and 6ft 1") though I wouldn't want to drag them into it the biggest has just finished school bar an exam and will be helping me build raised beds so at least I'll feel a bit safer on my plot.
I have to go to the police now anyway because he has threatened me with slander for something that I wasn't the first person to say but you all probably know how it works on an allotment site when someone does something underhand not only does the news spread on the grapevine most people don't know everyones name so they refer to people by some characteristc e.g. the man with lots of chickens; the postie etc This guy has now earned himself a name and he doesn't like it.
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but its not slander is it - because he did take your property. your not accusing him of something untrue. the whole thing is shocking and i hope you get some peace of mind at the end of the day.
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You've tried to do it diplomatically and it hasn't worked. If he gets away with it you don't know what he's going to take next. You say you've informed the Council; if they're responsible for lettings, then they should have had him off over it. The police are all you've got left. Stop dithering and do it, it's theft pure and simple!
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Slander comes under civil law. That is to say I can sue you for slander and pay for the trouble.
Theft, that is criminal law. YOU have the upper hand, the police protect you and take up the matter on your behalf.
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Anyone caught stealing on our site is kicked off striaght away !
Tell the council you have a theif on your site and they should take action !
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You've been very patient with these thieving arse wipes Kea, now's the time 4 action, go get em girl. ;D ;D ;D
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Time for an update.
I went to the police and they copied my letter and said someone would get back to me in the next week.......and guess what I'm still waiting :(!
Plus I had to move the manure pile it was in the way i.e. the replacement manure supposedly 'high quality 20 year old horse manure full of wiggly worms' I dispute the '20 year old...and not a single worm was seen in it.... I bagged it all up and put it out of the way, perhaps i could sell it back to them.
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perhaps i could sell it back to them.
I think that's the best suggestion ever - divine retribution and all ;D
1066
p.s. don't forget to charge them for the bags ;)
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I see today that two other people near me have had manure delivered in front of their plots and covered it up in the same way mine was covered up.....I wonder if theirs will go the same way.
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I see today that two other people near me have had manure delivered in front of their plots and covered it up in the same way mine was covered up.....I wonder if theirs will go the same way.
Well I know what I would do...
I'd get a few of my mates and in the dead of night I go and barrow it all onto the plot of the person who nicked yours in one big heap and then sit back and watch them try to wriggle out of that.
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Like your style Plot69! ;)
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If I lived close enough I would volunteer ;D ;D ;D.
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I think we'd all volunteer. ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Actually with their attitude it's only a matter of time before they do something to someone else again anyway...after all I was number two.
That is very tempting........
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I went to the police and they copied my letter and said someone would get back to me in the next week.......and guess what I'm still waiting
You did give them your address and get a crime report number didn't you?
Odd that, you have a theft and you go to the police with an admission from the thief and they do not take it up. Crime and criminal in a neat package. They must be keeping crime figures down instead of solving crime figures this year.
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April 20th. - July 3rd.
Not a lot of result there then?
Get on with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sort it FCS!!!!!!!!!
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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I went to the police and they copied my letter and said someone would get back to me in the next week.......and guess what I'm still waiting
You did give them your address and get a crime report number didn't you?
Odd that, you have a theft and you go to the police with an admission from the thief and they do not take it up. Crime and criminal in a neat package. They must be keeping crime figures down instead of solving crime figures this year.
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I went to the police and they copied my letter and said someone would get back to me in the next week.......and guess what I'm still waiting
You did give them your address and get a crime report number didn't you?
Odd that, you have a theft and you go to the police with an admission from the thief and they do not take it up. Crime and criminal in a neat package. They must be keeping crime figures down instead of solving crime figures this year.
Sorry having a fight with a laptop....don't usually use one!
The response is pretty much on par with previous responses i'm afraid. I've reported much more serious stuff and been swept under the carpet. My son was mugged about 6 years ago on the way to school for £1-50, he described the guys in great detail which most people wouldn't have so I could see the policeman look doubtful but my son was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome a year later. However the GP believed him because of the injuries but they basically told me without actually saying that he had made it up. And on another occasion when he was beaten to a pulp just outside school on the way home they didn't even follow it up. ....despite the A&E doctor saying he'd never seen such horrific injuries inflicted by a group of school children.
So why would they actually do something about a pile of manure?
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On all of those accasions I would have made a formal complaint as to why things were not followed up.
In fact I would write still to the cheif inspector to ask him when stealing/ABH/GBH came off the statute books as offences?
Pointing out that if these are still offences then why havent they been investigated by at least one officer?
Also ask which ombudsman do you make a complaint to about your local policing, or lack thereof?
Watch the bugger jump then lol
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I'm having the last laugh though because I topped his water butt up with Roundup...that'll sort his seedlings out.
Maybe I'm strange but I feel sort of sorry for the little seedlings.