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Hi,
I have planned the locations of my beds for my plot, as well as beds for fruit and asparagus and comfrey i will have 4 rotational areas. these being the traditional legumes, brassicas, potatoes and roots and onions rotations. My plot is quite large nad has been rotavated twice a year for the past 5 years apparently so i'm fairly sure that it isn' too compacted. I will be bale to clear the weeds and dig over the whole plot over the winter but i am not sure i could double dig it all.
when is double digging necessary? and if i only manage to do 2 of the areas, which rotations would benefit most from it?
any help appreciated.
Jo
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Hi Jo
I'd double dig what will be your potato bed each year - and add lots of manure. The potatoes will enjoy the feed, the manure will retain moisture, and you'll have a lovely deep soil for whatever comes next.
That way your whole plot will get a double digging every 4 years - and then, like the Forth Railway Bridge, start again!
All best - Gavin
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If you really fancy double digging (it`s the quickest way to a bad back later on) by all means do as Gavin suggests, but incorporate as much compostable matter (soft weeds, scrunched up newspapers, cardboard, leaves etc.) as you can into the bottom spit and manure and compost into the top, then never bother to double dig again - it just isn`t necessary for most vegetables.
The exception is runner beans. Make a permanent site for these (don`t rotate it), dig a trench 2 or more feet deep, then backfill, mixing in all your old woollen garments (slow release nitrogen), compost, leaves, newspapers etc. and plenty of bonemeal and allow it to settle over winter. Keep on using this site every year and it will get better and better every year.
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But I love digging!!! :) It is one of the most satisfying jobs, one I enjoy the most on the plot, so I am a little biassed.
All best - Gavin
PS - and I've been lucky, I suppose. The only time I damaged my back was sitting at a computer, turning round to pick up my mug of coffee, and sneezing ----- all at the same time. I'm told men are programmed to do one thing at a time, but two weeks of agony for a tiny little bit of ambition seems just a little over the top.
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if i do double dig it'll only be once all over the plot, but only one bit each year. I dug over a decent area yesterday and it seemed like excellent soil and the ladies in the next plot told me that the man who had it before the lad who had it this year always put loads of organic matter into the soil and that really shows.
good tip about the runner beans, my grandad always had his in the same spot. so would you suggest starting that bed off soon so it can sort itself out over the winter? woolly jumpers? really?
I enjoy digging too gavin, sad isn't it? :D
cheers
Jo
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Very definitely, and as soon as possible. After all the Runners are (space for space) the most productive crop on the plot and well worth the effort. If you don`t want to sacrifice your old woolly jumpers try and do as I did. Get hold of a couple of old woollen flock mattresses and tip the contents into the bottom of the trench. The old Yorkshire show growers used to use wool shoddy, but I haven`t seen any of that for years.
And if you want a really fantastic bean for quality and crop size try Flare from Marshalls - it`s new this year and it`s the best I`ve ever grown - I`m picking over 10 lbs a week from a 16ft single row
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The thing about siting runner bean trenches (a question I've been pondering for a couple of days - I'm thinking of digging out another) is...you have to factor in the shading the beans will give in the summer - saladings will go well amongst and behind them, and you can start off brassicas behind them, which will be sheltered while small and benefit from the N left by the beans...but looking at my garden, can see that if I put another trench where I want to (for aesthetics ::) ) my bush tomato plantation is going to be b*****ed..
So I'm thinkin' and thinkin' - and thinkin' that perhaps I won't bother :D - Lishka
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yep, i like digging too - right now, i am d.digging our potato patch - I go real slow, maybe about 6 square metres a time but I really like to weed and rootle about.
Am hoping to get enough of the patch done so I can get some horse down before xmas.
mmmm....virtuous hot baths.
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I grow my veg in raised beds so hardly any digging for me at all. I generally enjoy digging and do quite a bit for ornamentals in the garden.
I always try to rotate crops, even beans, as I have always been taught not grow the same crop in the same place two years running as it can cause problems.
By the way has anyone tried overwintering the Runner bean roots, like you would dahlias? I was intrigued when i read about this in a magazine.
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yep! Richard. I garden in the midlands and stored 2 roots as a trial in the potting shed one year. Not worth the bother - that season's new seeds caught up and, in fact, in terms of yield, overtook the saved haulms. But I believe that, if you go further North it might be worthwhile? Sure someone will say...but is that right that you live south of the midlands? If so, deff. not worth the bother, I'd think?
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I grow my veg in raised beds so hardly any digging for me at all.
Surely this cannot be the same Richard Filer who, a mere 5 weeks ago, was insisting on the Beeb Boards that double digging was a time honoured necessity, and even suggested that those who did not do so were work shy.
Perhaps we can now convince him that, whatever he was taught about crop rotation, there is absolutely NO necessity for rotating his runner beans, and indeed that a permanent bean trench will not only improve with age, but will result in his runner beans improving year by year.
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Hugh
Are all those woolly jumpers unwanted Christmas gifts???? :o
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Surely this cannot be the same Richard Filer who, a mere 5 weeks ago, was insisting on the Beeb Boards that double digging was a time honoured necessity, and even suggested that those who did not do so were work shy.
Perhaps we can now convince him that, whatever he was taught about crop rotation, there is absolutely NO necessity for rotating his runner beans, and indeed that a permanent bean trench will not only improve with age, but will result in his runner beans improving year by year.
Oh yes well that answers THAT question. It definetly IS the same Hugh Jones then.
OK Right! Here we go then!
If you read my earlier post you will find that I said that while I have raised beds in the veg plot (note VEG PLOT not ALLOTMENT), that do not need deep digging ,since the soil is not walked on and compacted. I still though practice various types of digging in the ornamental garden, particularly where the soil is tired, compacted or I am making a new bed (as i was at the time of our Great Debate). I do not routinely double dig areas in regular cultivation, and either single dig or mulch these areas.
I do wish you would
READ MY POSTS PROPERLY
and
STOP MISQUOTING ME
Richard
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Which part of your posting is that you think I am misquoting? The one set out in the quotation block? It appears to me to be set out exactly word for word. It certainly doesn`t appear to include any of the extra words that you are now adding in your later posting by way of explanation, and which you appear to think I should somehow have read into your first posting. Have they in some way got lost from your original posting before I saw it?
Or are they supposed to have been included in some other posting? Odd, because I have read carefully through all your postings on this site, and those words do not appear in any of them.
So it would appear that I have read your previous posting perfectly correctly, and that I have not misquoted you in any way.
Perhaps if you in your turn read your own postings more carefully you would be able to avoid compounding your own errors by making false accusations in quite unnecessary coloured block capitals and marquee.
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.............handbags..... :o....six paces......... :P
........is this really necessary.......... :-/
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I agree. Surely there's no need to nit pick over what people have said in previous posts.
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Horses for courses surely?
Double dig where its needed - no need when its not
Then everyone's happy - even the plants
Does anyone use unwanted Chrissy presents in the bean trench????
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Well Cinderself, I was thinking about all that wrapping paper going in the trench. Wonder if the print will cause problems. ???
Unwanted pressies in the trench, I don't think diamonds will rot down terribly well, along with the Gucci handbag, altho leather so maybe given time, and the chanel perfume will only encourage wasps! ;)
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thanks Ava...wrote something quite similar meself this morning but then didn't 'do an OzZie and hit the 'post' button. :-/
The beauty of Dan's site, for me, has been that, until now, the certainty that the bitchiness of the Beeb site isn't present here.
I hope that this continues. :( Alishka
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............well if it comes, we will kill it with humour.......... ;)
......life is too short to let it bother you...........
(pregnant dogs...?.......;/ )
interesting..........
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Wow EJ
Santa's being good to you this year!!!!
Wonder if anyone else has put diamonds in the trench -- good incentive to double dig eh?
cinderself? - is this for panto season?
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tsk tsk chaps
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Hey Cinders....
Sorry :-[ .
Love
The ugly sister :'(
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No probs EJ
In fact trying hard to persuade hubby to install woodburning stove so we wont have cinders ::).
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Which part of your posting is that you think I am misquoting? The one set out in the quotation block? It appears to me to be set out exactly word for word. It certainly doesn`t appear to include any of the extra words that you are now adding in your later posting by way of explanation, and which you appear to think I should somehow have read into your first posting. Have they in some way got lost from your original posting before I saw it?
Or are they supposed to have been included in some other posting? Odd, because I have read carefully through all your postings on this site, and those words do not appear in any of them.
So it would appear that I have read your previous posting perfectly correctly, and that I have not misquoted you in any way.
Perhaps if you in your turn read your own postings more carefully you would be able to avoid compounding your own errors by making false accusations in quite unnecessary coloured block capitals and marquee.
Correction:
Instead of 'misquoting' read 'misunderstanding'
No Hugh you did not misquote me in the strictest sense, you clearly though are misunderstanding or misinterpreting what I have been saying in my posts.
I will NOT go over old ground AGAIN, but please
read my postings carefuly before you reply.
:)
I do find nitpicking very tiresome. If you cant think of anything to say without doung so I suggest you dont post at all.
This subject is now closed :-X
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.............handbags..... :o....six paces......... :P
........is this really necessary.......... :-/
No but if Hugh wants a fight
HE WILL CERTAINLY GET ONE!
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The smell of testosterone around here is positively overwhelming :o :o :o :o :o
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hey Suze! That long word...is that what I've been spreading on my garden? I call it something a lot shorter ;D ;D ;D
Anyhow, I'm going to double-dig my new plot. Want no apple tree roots, half house bricks or rubble to interrupt the growth next season of
the most ginormous mooli EVER
I'm a Woman on a Mission ;) - Lishka
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Yo 'Lishka
Indeed, shorthand version of the word equates b*llsh*t
Did think it may be like Bridget Jones "Fight, Fight"
Why you want enormous mooli? Thought you went off with bloke with enormous carrot not so long ago - has the novelty palled - do you require something more exotic ??? ???
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It was after reading Tim's comments about mooli on my 'seduced' thread that did it for me, Suze..hey! you still want to have wings in the panto? Casting tomorrow, you know..
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Hey Alishka
I've certainly noticed a difference on my plot - I've got a sort of experiment going on.
In some areas I have been really 'careful' and dug quite deeply ( these are still considerably clear of weed regrowth) and in other areas where I have just forked over - - a bit more than a spade depth but not as deep as two spits the weeds are enjoying a bit of 'air' and coming up again. Thought I might pop some potatoes in this bit and use the 'cleaner' areas for salad stuff?
Dont think I will have cleared enough ground for Giant Moolis though!
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Yo 'Lishka
So casting for Panto tomorrow?
Do I have to get on the casting couch for Hugh's delectation?
Oh please say yes ................ ;)
I just love suave older gentlemen ............
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Do I have to get on the casting couch for Hugh's delectation
Sorry Suze...he won't be fit for anything after my audition!! :o ;) ;D
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Sorry Di
You don't know about my restorarative powers ;)
I am renowned for them :o
Mind you, he did disappear off screen pretty quick .......
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Aha!! ;)
Resting up for his BIG day tomoro!! ;) ;D
P.S.....don't forget the uniform ........Hugh ;) ;) ;)
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So now the ground has shifted and the goalposts have been moved. It appears that I did not misquote, but for some reason am accused of misunderstanding something which was plain as a pikestaff for all to see and understand.
What we are now being told is that when Richard Filer says one thing he, in fact, means something different, but that if we do not readily understand that he means something different then we have either (a) Misquoted or (b)Deliberately Misunderstood him, according to whichever accusation he finds the more convenient to make at the time, but as these two expressions are also, apparently, interchangeable we are then expected to decide not only whether he means something different than what he says, but also whether he means Misunderstood when he says Misquoted, or Misquoted when he says Misunderstood - indeed with each successive posting of his it becomes ever more difficult to tread the minefield of his thoughts. Nevertheless, any failure to do so apparently then provides him with the excuse for a hysterical tantrum in multicoloured and moving script - presumably because he finds difficulty in expressing himself in a more normal and acceptable manner.
Normal people, of course, who wish to discuss a subject on these boards, decide what they mean, and then say it. They do not expect the readers to display telepathic abilities to discover that something different is meant. Nor do they make themselves objectionable when they are quite reasonably taken at their word.
He then accuses me of nitpicking and suggests that I should stop posting. If he has nits then certainly I would have no desire whatever to pick them. However, I would point out that as almost every single posting he has made since his arrival on these boards has either started with or included a quote from somebody else`s posting he would appear to be more guilty of this than anybody else on the board.
Following his own advice, therefore, he should be the one to stop posting, and as he has such difficulty in saying what he means, or meaning what he says, the sooner the better before we all get as confused as he obviously is.
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Bravo...Hugh!!
Definitely no room on this board for nitpickers!! ;D...double diggers...yes!
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Oh Hugh
Just love it when you get angry .........................
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i don't - in fact, i had noticed that this site was incredibly courteous towards newbies so all this confrontation is a trifle upsetting. Hugh, as a senior member, surely you can be more magnanimous and Richard, calm down, we are talking about gardening, not world politics.
live and let live, please
suzy
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Sorry...Suzy.......but....... you've got to admit........Hugh's eloquence is absolutely mind blowing !!
And long may it continue!!
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...do the rest of us have to be subjected to such playground name calling and quoting....
....yes, this is a public forum, but this is also how public forums alienate the people who enjoy it most....
....only my personal opinion....just think it is TOTALLY unnecessary.
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Sorry...Suzy.......but....... you've got to admit........Hugh's eloquence is absolutely mind blowing !!
Can't fault his logic, either, Di. 8) - one cool dude, our Hugh - tho if he's going to be so cool after you and Suze have had him on the casting couch, who can tell?
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Lish......definitely a stayer :o .....our Hugh..... ;) ;) ;)
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Hold your horses! If anyone doesn't like something another person says or does, it doesn't mean you denounce the person as a whole.
I always had to laugh at Hugh's confrotational tones, not seldom directed at me. From the moment Richard joined, he is potrayed in a negative way and discredited by Hugh. This is not funny nor necessary in my view.
If you have this fantastic talent with language as Hugh does, it is very easy to talk others into a defensive corner but I'd rather see it used in a positive way as I have enjoyed here so often and still do.
Nothing wrong with disagreeing on the board but if you have a bone to pick with someone, there is the personal message function on this board. With this public display I can already see camps forming and it worries me.
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Yay Ina and Ava. Lets stop this whilst we can! I have been down this route before somewhere else and it all ended in tears :'(. There were no winners, only loosers with the loss of many pals.
It's party season, my tutu and stiletto wellies are clean and at the ready, my maid marion outfits are back from the cleaners (gotta decide which one my bum doesn't look big in) and the sloe gin in bottled (well, what I haven't drunk during the necessary tasting session) and ready to be shared! ;D
Lets carry on being the insane allotmenteers we all are !
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Yo Peeps
Well where shall I start? firstly I think HUgh andRichard are displaying a load of humour,to me its just playful banter... and there posts to each other are hilarious, so much so, that they could have orchestrated this themselves? :)
whatever it is... I love it.. bit like listeninng to the neighbours havin a go at each other... just let it go on it will exhaust itself or provide us wiv a bit of drama? soz comedy drama ::)
anyroads thats my threepennuths
oZzY $:)
CUM ON HAVE A GO...IF U FINK UR HARD ENUFF :)
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pals.
It's party season, my tutu and stiletto wellies are clean and at the ready, my maid marion outfits are back from the cleaners (gotta decide which one my bum doesn't look big in)
Hey Emma, we'll have no Dr. Atkins a spectre at the Feast here...you could be Lorelei..the mermaid who lures peeps onto the rocks excavated from their ponds? Never seen that she wears knickers...yeahhhhhh!!! way to go gal!!!
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So now the ground has shifted and the goalposts have been moved. It appears that I did not misquote, but for some reason am accused of misunderstanding something which was plain as a pikestaff for all to see and understand.
What we are now being told is that when Richard Filer says one thing he, in fact, means something different, but that if we do not readily understand that he means something different then we have either (a) Misquoted or (b)Deliberately Misunderstood him, according to whichever accusation he finds the more convenient to make at the time, but as these two expressions are also, apparently, interchangeable we are then expected to decide not only whether he means something different than what he says, but also whether he means Misunderstood when he says Misquoted, or Misquoted when he says Misunderstood - indeed with each successive posting of his it becomes ever more difficult to tread the minefield of his thoughts. Nevertheless, any failure to do so apparently then provides him with the excuse for a hysterical tantrum in multicoloured and moving script - presumably because he finds difficulty in expressing himself in a more normal and acceptable manner.
Normal people, of course, who wish to discuss a subject on these boards, decide what they mean, and then say it. They do not expect the readers to display telepathic abilities to discover that something different is meant. Nor do they make themselves objectionable when they are quite reasonably taken at their word.
He then accuses me of nitpicking and suggests that I should stop posting. If he has nits then certainly I would have no desire whatever to pick them. However, I would point out that as almost every single posting he has made since his arrival on these boards has either started with or included a quote from somebody else`s posting he would appear to be more guilty of this than anybody else on the board.
Following his own advice, therefore, he should be the one to stop posting, and as he has such difficulty in saying what he means, or meaning what he says, the sooner the better before we all get as confused as he obviously is.
Oh for goodness sakes Hugh was that really nessesary!
Now who is the one nit picking? Hmm.
Quoting someone does not equal nitpicking, it just means I want to reply direct to your post and not to the discussion as a whole.
Using glows and flashes does not equal a tantrum. Its just sometimes using mere capitals or bold does not do justice to the feelings behind the words. Although i did use them the second time mainly because i wanted to wind you up (because you wound ME up with your ridiculous comments).
No I will not stop posting on this site, but what i will do is stop posting on this particular subject, which quite frankly has got out of hand, and everyone except you are fed up with it.
I am prepared to agree to differ with you. I will continue to can a spade a spade and you can continue to to call a spade a fork as far as i am concerned.
I appreciate i do use the wrong words from time to time, but there is no need to give me an english language lesson for doing so.
As far as i am concerned i try to say what I mean, and do not expect people to be mind readers. However If people choose to give their own diferent 9and wrong) meaning to what i say that is their problem not mine.
I did not come on this board to pick fights with people, such behavior is stressfull. I get enough stress on the BBC site thank you. I do though like a sensible reasoned discussion on a subject.
Now Hugh I will keep you happy and shut up
Richard
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oZzY, your three pennuths are minted in gold. However, it seems that you are only going to get tuppence ha`penny`s worth for your money after all.
Richard asks whether my previous posting was absolutely necessary. It was the inevitable consequence of "trying to wind me up" - a dangerous enterprise at any time.
Never mind! Back to the proper pantomime.
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Yo Hugh
but Ive paid for me 3 pennuths?
This has made me think.... I beteverysingle one of us has seen a totally utterly insane arguement for real. so I'll kick it off, one night a huge fight erupted in my local.... massive it wuz at pretty scary..not nice realy..but anyway... the argument/fight wuz over ........
WHICH WAY A COW KICKED? one was adamant that the cow could only kick from the knee???? so what ding dongs for dead stupid reasons has you lot seen?
oZzY %)
see I iz not moving around
so much now......::)
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Well, we nearly had one on the Beeb boards on whether runner beans twined clockwise or anticlockwise - and that was during the growing season when it was only necessary to go and look.
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.... I beteverysingle one of us has seen a totally utterly insane arguement for real.
Mine lasted 16 years...7 months... and 21 days!! ::)