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Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: gardentg44 on April 03, 2009, 09:04:05

Title: raised beds?
Post by: gardentg44 on April 03, 2009, 09:04:05
Why is everyone going crazy over raised beds?

dont look very practical to me.

how do you get the rotavator in & out?

and all thoose paths ???

whats it all about?

or am i just stuck in my ways?
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: saddad on April 03, 2009, 09:21:37
I'm stuck in the mud too...  ;D

The idea is you don't need to "dig" as you don't compact the soil by walking on it...  :)
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Baccy Man on April 03, 2009, 09:29:38
Raised beds are a lazy approach to gardening for people who can't be bothered digging. A bit like using roundup because you can't be bothered weeding or using a rotovator do dig instead of a spade.

I should add there are some circumstances where raised beds are considered to be a necessity because people have health or mobility problems which make traditional gardening techniques difficult.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Mr Smith on April 03, 2009, 09:50:07
Although I have two small raised beds tucked out of the way just for salad stuff, my next door lotty neighbour  uses raised beds for everything along with the black plastic they put down now that is lotty lazy, personally I don't give a toss what they do, but  being on a slope all their run off water came my way before I dug a trench and a run off channel, ;)   
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Old bird on April 03, 2009, 10:06:59
Raised beds are the more "organic" way to grow food.  The reason being is that when you don't walk on the soil the earth is not compacted, the worms are able to manage their own eco system as are all the micro organisms that live in the soil without the annual disturbance of being "dug over". 

Having had raised beds without the wooden support last year when making the new beds properly this year I noticed that there were loads of worms in the earth plus all the earth had worm holes in it - which  - when undisturbed provide both ventilation and drainage.  The micro organisms - and I don't know much about them except they can multiply easier if undisturbed.

It is not just bein "lazy" about digging - it is a different form of providing growing space - and - as far as I am concerned it is more in tune with nature and natural development.

I would say that unless you view things with an open mind gardentg44 and are prepared to understand why people make and use raised beds - then you are stuck in your ways - and in my opinion - that is like sticking your head in the sand!!  Nothing wrong with that - carry on digging like your forefathers - one day you may see the light!

Old Bird

 ;D

Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: betula on April 03, 2009, 10:19:57
It seems to me that some people have a very odd attitude to raised beds.

Out come the offensive remarks .

I use raised beds as my ground becomes very easily waterlogged.

It seems to me that some people see tending their plots as a statement of how hard working and clever they are.

What a bore ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: tonybloke on April 03, 2009, 10:25:05
check out this site for proper info  re no-dig
http://www.charlesdowding.co.uk/index.php
http://www.charlesdowding.co.uk/index.php?main=inside/index
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 03, 2009, 11:21:18
You don't need raised beds in order to have beds you don't walk on; you can have all the advantages of that on the flat. I think they're a tool for specific situations. I'm actually thinking of putting them in now; I'm not only tired of not being able to grow a lot of flowers I like because of winter damp, I've been getting damage to my veg due to waterlogging over the last two years. I had drowned spuds last summer, and drowned rhubarb the summer before.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Baccy Man on April 03, 2009, 11:23:15
The soil in this area is a mix of clay & slate when it rains the puddles formed typically take 3-4 days to dissappear when it's dry the ground is like concrete apart from the odd lobworm & a lot of millipedes there is not much apparently living in the soil.

My beds were dug over the worst of the stones removed & plenty of organic matter (compost, manure, leafmould etc..) has been incorporated over the years. I also use OM  to create thick mulches. Now my beds are well drained neither drying out or becoming waterlogged, there are thousands of worms in the soil in addition to numerous other insects there are also several slow worms which have taken up residence, the plants grow well as I don't use additional fertilisers this suggests the soil is fertile/healthy. If I accidentally step on a bed my foot sinks shin deep which should give you an idea how aerated it is.

What is it I am doing wrong by digging the beds over?
How would my beds be better if they were raised/no-dig beds?
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 03, 2009, 11:26:20
It doesn't sound as though you're doing much wrong at all. As long as it crops well and suits you, that's what matters!
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: betula on April 03, 2009, 11:27:39
Exactly ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: tim_n on April 03, 2009, 11:32:28
I like my raised beds because weeding takes virtually no time, I just pull on a bit of couch and I often get 8 or nine feet long threads out in one piece.  Don't need to dig them anymore and the plants seem to do better in them.

Similarly I have a bad back and it's easier to weed.  I have a piece of moveable scaffolding board that goes down the longside of the adjacent raised bed which I can use as a seat when weeding.

I also have the normal sort for my fruit bushes which I don't weed and only trim.

I have small raised beds for strawberries - I loose less of my crop, they don't sprawl so easily.

I have a raised harlow 3x3 bed for veg.  It's not so tall that the frogs can't go-a-slugging in it and I got plenty of produce in it.  It's a designated space and it's easier to mark out for what goes where.

My raised beds are quicker to warm up in the summer, but obviously the downside is in the winter they're more affected by frost.

This year I'm going to tackle the last bit of my space, I don't really know what I'm going to grow in it, but probably going to put in a large amount of sweetcorn because I love it so much.  It'll go straight in the ground.

I don't see why anyone has a problem between raised beds and normal 'digging'.  Why is anyone fussed over what their neighbour is doing?

Saying that, since I started on my plot I've noticed many new raised beds appearing.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Old bird on April 03, 2009, 11:42:49
Sounds good to me Baccy Man - but you did say if you accidentally step into a bed your foot sinks in shin deep - which means that you don't let the soil become compacted.

There is nothing wrong with the way you garden - I think it is great if you want to carry on digging.  Personally I wouldn't grow potatoes and jerusalem artichokes in deep beds.  But it is a matter of what works for you.

Yes the traditional way works - yes the deep bed system works - two ways of doing it two ways of working soil and producing produce!!

I will be sticking with my deep beds and - no doubt - you will continue to dig every year!

Old Bird

 ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: coznbob on April 03, 2009, 11:46:58
I use raised beds of a sort.

My allotment it is the bottom of a very steep slope, on heavy clay. I found it easier to dig sections of it at a time. Once dug and organic matter had been incorporated I found that the soil wanted to travel down the hill, so it made sense to contain it in some way, hence the raised beds.

Having said that, the beds are all different shapes and sizes, due to the wood that I managed to beg, steal and borrow and the lack of any DIY skills that I have.

Also find it easier to train the kids and dog on what not to tread on, if beds are in place.

I still have to dig the beds at the mo. to try and get the soil workable and to be honest I enjoy it as it is very satifying, once done!

Also, just to be pedantic, raised beds have been around for a long time, at least since the romans, and probably before that...

Think it is a case of whatever works for you.... as long as stuff grows, who cares ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 03, 2009, 11:47:59
Raised beds have been appearing on a lot of plots on my site since we've had a scaffolder as a plotholder. He gets us regular supplies of used boards. But it's noticeable that 90% are on the side that floods.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Duke Ellington on April 03, 2009, 12:09:31
Choose the way of growing vegetables that suits you! - Easy !! Done!! Dusted!

Duke ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Flunky on April 03, 2009, 13:05:20
Raised beds are a lazy approach to gardening for people who can't be bothered digging. A bit like using roundup because you can't be bothered weeding or using a rotovator do dig instead of a spade.

I should add there are some circumstances where raised beds are considered to be a necessity because people have health or mobility problems which make traditional gardening techniques difficult.

Lazy ! ! ! What a crock of poop. I am out working 45 hours a week. I have been down every morning, every day I have off and ALL weekend most weeks (allowing for hols etc) since last February. What an incredibly narrow minded point to make.

Mine arent really raised more boxed in areas. I just like them the way they are.

P.s I use both a rotivator and a spade and would quite happily use round up.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: lewic on April 03, 2009, 13:10:10
My plot is heavy clay and the lower half slopes, so I am terracing it with whatever wood I can get hold of, just to keep everything in place, and putting planks/weed membrane down as paths so I dont tread on the soil. I imagine I will still have to keep digging it though.

Did find a large bookshelf on a skip last night though, and with the shelves removed it makes an instant raised bed. So I plan a little experiment with the no-dig method to see what happens!
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: GodfreyRob on April 03, 2009, 13:26:00
I love my raised beds but if someone told me I had to grow that way  I would tell them where to go and then grow everything on the flat ;D

My garden is a great place for relaxing where I make the rules - where else can you do that these days?
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 03, 2009, 13:54:38
A few other hobbies; beekeeping for instance. If practice, of course, most of the rules are made by the plants and the bees! This is where it's important to resist the development of any sort of 'orthodoxy'. Wherever there's room for different methods, we need to be able to use them as what works for me probably won't for you, and if we keep trying new methods we'll eventually develop ways of doing things that really are better all round. In which case, they'll catch on of their own accord.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: woody on April 03, 2009, 20:31:25
 i never knew why they got rid of the penny farthing bike you know, i mean it got me around and did the job...oh well it must be me stuck in my ways...And why oh why cook on a gas cooker just make yourself a fire for christ sake...
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Justy on April 04, 2009, 16:51:07
What is so great about digging?!   ???  If I dig my plot every year is someone going to present me with a medal? (They should do with the heavy clay I have).

I think each to their own. My neighbouring lottie holder runs rows of veg the whole 30m length of his lottie which he does by hand and good on him.  However he is retired and spends most of his life down there (hoeing mainly).  He also does nothing but moan about what hard work it is.

On the other hand I work full time and have a family too and all the pleasure goes out of having an allotment if all I ever do there is dig and weed.  My raised beds and covered pathways mean that I can easily weed just the bits that need doing and actually spend time enjoying the outdoors.

Our site has a mix of types of plot but without a doubt the raised bed method is becoming much more popular and looks great all year round too. 
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 04, 2009, 18:08:26
i never knew why they got rid of the penny farthing bike you know, i mean it got me around and did the job...oh well it must be me stuck in my ways...And why oh why cook on a gas cooker just make yourself a fire for christ sake...

How do you manage to stop quickly without going over the handlebars?
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: woody on April 04, 2009, 18:29:03
(http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:vdel64u7lSgHrM::media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/88/6488-004.jpg)
Here is a pic of my bike, i used a bean stick to slow down in a controlled way, made a clatter though.

I have to admit, on the raised bed front, that we all garden in a different way, whats good for the goose, as somebody has said as long as you enjoy what you are doing, who cares what mr smith is doing with his onions :-X
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 05, 2009, 18:40:03
I'd like to see anyone do that on a steep hill!
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: luap on April 05, 2009, 21:58:07
i have 2 plots,1 with beds 1 with out and find they both have their advantages,beds are easier for salad crops or carrot,onion,garlic and brassicas.Spuds,pumpkins,squashes and fruit bushes go in the one without.It works for us so dont care what others think. ;)
ps also work 45 hours and walk a dog and look after my garden and chickens and wife and daughter so by no means am i lazy :P
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: ThomsonAS on April 05, 2009, 22:15:35
I think  a part of it is a fashion (no different from the fashion for long rows- but no big deal really. The main reasons I've not gone over  are:

1. I might want to change the orientation  or size of my beds
2. I don't have acess to free scaffolders' planks!
3. The posh commerical ones seem blooming expensive for what they are.

If it helps people manage their plot and get more enjoyment from it, what the heck?

Alastair
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Ant on April 06, 2009, 11:23:33
3. The posh commerical ones seem blooming expensive for what they are.

Agreed! The prices are a joke, I always have a laugh at Harrod Horticultural. Although I have noticed in recent weeks that the prices are dropping a bit.

When we made ours we went to local sawmills and asked. Got everything cut to size for free and worked out about £8 per bed (for a 6' x 3'). The allotment is our primary hobby, don't smoke etc so am happy to spend a few quid experimenting.

Allotment folk seem resitant to change and if it was good enough for their grandfather, its good enough for them.

One of the older guys came over and had a look and likes the look of them but said "I will reserve judgement until I see your crops". Fair comment. Not instantly dismissed.  :)

However, once people see it work, then they are more likely to give it a try.

I know our plot neighbour is copying our ways for garlic.  :)
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: lushy86 on April 06, 2009, 11:33:48
One of my neighbours said that using wood to make beds is a bad idea because woodlice will eat all the crops.  I have made a bed surrounded with wood just to make a boudary because am still clearing the plot.

Lushy x
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!) on April 06, 2009, 12:07:29
I can't understand why some are so hostile to raised beds, it really is each to their own.  I have loads of raised beds fo many reasons, all of which I have explained elsewhere.  Please see my gallery, I am sure it will make grown men (anti raised bed men) cry!

Psi
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Carls3168 on April 06, 2009, 12:30:26
Psi.... them's some d**n fancy beds you've got there!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: woody on April 06, 2009, 12:35:12
Wow psi, i thought you might plant hedges and charge £1 entry ;D Looking ace, great work.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Justy on April 06, 2009, 18:10:22
That is beautiful Psi!


Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: manicscousers on April 06, 2009, 18:22:58
well, if you look in our gallery, you can see what the soil is like 3 months per year(more like 6 last year), oh, and being disabled, raised beds helps me grow stuff  ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: SilverApple on April 07, 2009, 14:12:07
I put raised beds in my new garden, but without the wood 'cos as Lushy says, it is an ideal place for the nasties to hide and breed! 

Got the original idea from a Readers Digest manual (wonderful book of my Dad's, also told me how to test my soil type), that calls it the Chinese way of raised bed gardening, will add a before and after pic to my Gallery for anyone who'd like a peek.

Just put a mustard crop in both main raised beds as a green manure, before my main planting in May (weather permitting), spring onions in third bed last Sunday.

The only comment I have had is... Who've you buried under there then?
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: JimmyJames on April 07, 2009, 14:39:12
My plot contains a number of beds (3m x 1m, and 3m x 1.5m pairs) and narrow pathways in between them.

I dig them over whenever they are empty as it helps me unearth all of the bind weed roots that seem to multiply very quickly!
Last season I found that I was spending most of my time chopping back the grass!  The edges of the beds would move as the grass took over, and the whole place looked messy all of the time.  I found that rather than enjoying the growing and harvesting, I was fretting over the grass.

Over the winter I managed to aquire a bulk load of 3m long gravel board from a friend who owns a fencing company.  Without his help I would never have justified the cost of the wood.  He effectively sold me the boards for £1 each,  which is a fraction on their cost in the DIY centres.  Also they were 3m long which was perfect for my beds.

Long story short, I now have most of my beds 'raised'.  By this I mean they have a six inch high wooden border around them, and will fill up over time with mulches etc.

I still plan to dig them over, but the effect of the wood is to make the whole place look tidy.

I know this shouldnt really matter, but it's great to turn up and focus on the soil rather than the untidy grass!

I have even had a number of compliments from the neighbouring plotholders - saying that my plot is 'coming along nicely'  :)

Amazing what a bit of wood can do :D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Old bird on April 07, 2009, 14:55:26
Wow those are some raised beds JimmyJames!

Beautiful!

Mine are dead boring and rectangular!

Are you going to put chippings,gravel or what have you in the pathways?

Garlic looking good too!

Old Bird

 ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: JimmyJames on April 07, 2009, 15:14:25
I think you must have viewed the pics of a previous poster.  (their pics made me jealous too!!)

I have not taken a photo of my plot for ages, but I think I might take some tonight!

My bed are boring rectangles too ;)
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!) on April 07, 2009, 15:17:01
haha funny thread.  I have raised beds as it is very clay - the 4" beds give me a better soil (compost, manure), which I am still working on! (and will be as long as I can garden the plot!).  Also the kids now know where to walk - i.e not on the beds!  Couch is endemic so the beds are helping with that too.

Old bird - I have some fabric and will be laying that soon and then bark chipping it all on the walk ways so the kids can zoom up and down.

This is my first year on the plot (done stuff at home before) so there will be some trial and error!  I am happy to fail toa degree if I learn as I go!  Carrots and beetroots in yesterday and next week will get spring onions and radish going.  I'll take some more pics soon - I've built a couple of salad beds since I took these pics.

Thanks for the comments.

Psi

x
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: BLUis on April 07, 2009, 18:07:19
I joined this forum today to get some advice about raised beds, but i cant believe the negative attitudes of some people! 

i have a bad back since having my son, i was also in a car accident just before Xmas so a raised bed would definitely help me out.

If anyone can give some positive advice for me, what to make them with, how to make them, I would be really grateful.  I dont want to plant a lot this year, just salad, tomatoes, strawberries (in a 3 tier planter) and perhaps carrots and onions, so the area wont be a large one. 

ps i am NOT lazy!!!!



Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Tin Shed on April 07, 2009, 18:20:19
I have raised beds on one plot that was very heavy soil and would have been very difficult to dig over.
I found a friendly builder and have used scaffold boards.
They have been great for the salad crops,spinach, carrots and beetroot etc. Also grow my sweetcorn, courgettes, onions and shallots in them, but don't use them for potatoes or brassicas.
They are much easier to weed, but do take a bit more watering.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: manicscousers on April 07, 2009, 19:50:30
I joined this forum today to get some advice about raised beds, but i cant believe the negative attitudes of some people! 

i have a bad back since having my son, i was also in a car accident just before Xmas so a raised bed would definitely help me out.

If anyone can give some positive advice for me, what to make them with, how to make them, I would be really grateful.  I dont want to plant a lot this year, just salad, tomatoes, strawberries (in a 3 tier planter) and perhaps carrots and onions, so the area wont be a large one. 
ps i am NOT lazy!!!!

Hiya, BLUis, welcome to the site  ;D
we use raised beds all over our plot, due to mobility probs for us both, as we've got worse, so our beds go up  ;D
what sort of soil and have you got nasty weeds where you're going to put the bed in?
we used old pallets, stripped down and treated, trouble is, my oh made them so he will know better, if he can help, let me know  :)



Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Norfolk n Proud on April 07, 2009, 20:04:59



Lazy ! ! ! What a crock of poop. I am out working 45 hours a week. I have been down every morning, every day I have off and ALL weekend most weeks (allowing for hols etc) since last February. What an incredibly narrow minded point to make.

Mine arent really raised more boxed in areas. I just like them the way they are.

P.s I use both a rotivator and a spade and would quite happily use round up.
[/quote]

Evening Flunky,   Whereabouts in Naaarfolk are you from? I'm in sunny Faknum, and i use all raised beds as it's what suits me, and i find it easy to rotate crops in a numbered bed system, but hey, each to their own!!  Get orrrrrff my land!!  ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Eristic on April 07, 2009, 21:37:57
Well you lot may not be lazy but I am and that is one very good reason for not using raised beds. The other good reason for not using raised beds is the incredibly poor yields generally obtained.  But then, I reckon I eat a hell of a lot more than many folks here.  8)
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Vortex on April 08, 2009, 00:13:32
Well you lot may not be lazy but I am and that is one very good reason for not using raised beds. The other good reason for not using raised beds is the incredibly poor yields generally obtained. 
I don't think either argument stacks up. Yes they take a little more effort to build but once built are a lot easier to manage.
More often than not, when managed correctly a raised bed will produce more than an open row system, and you can plant much closer than with open rows.
I use both and they both have their pro's and con's. It's all a matter of applying a little common sense and using each to maximize its advantages and minimize its disadvantages.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Eristic on April 08, 2009, 00:37:06
Quote
you can plant much closer than with open rows.

How's that then? A plant needs an optimum spacing for maximum growth regardless of whether it is in a box or not. As for the bit about raised bed growers being able to replant after harvest, that's cool but what do you think I do? My land is rarely idle for long.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: elvis2003 on April 08, 2009, 00:56:00
i for one dont like the uniform look of raised beds,although this year we have *boxes*for carrots,dahlia and gladiolis,which will prob stay the same year in year out,cept for the carrot bed which we will pick up and move as per crop rotation.its surely an individual choice,taking into account personal preference etc,we all have different needs and stuff,so should garden accordingly,as to what suits each individual.we have a couple of plot holders with only a quarter plot,most of which is taken up with raised beds,and huge paths,but hey,if thats what they can manage than im not prepared to judge.each to their own
rach
x
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: BAK on April 08, 2009, 07:22:33
I use raised beds ... but without wooden surrounds ... I dig ... I dont work 45 hours per week ... I am probably very lazy.

Looks like I will be first against the wall whichever of your revolutions comes along first :(
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 08, 2009, 08:26:11
What's the evidence of lower yields? Plants are normally closer together on a bed system, raised or otherwise, as you don't need to leave space to get between the rows.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Froglegs on April 08, 2009, 10:11:21
Works for me.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: 1066 on April 08, 2009, 10:33:42
I joined this forum today to get some advice about raised beds, but i cant believe the negative attitudes of some people! 

i have a bad back since having my son, i was also in a car accident just before Xmas so a raised bed would definitely help me out.

If anyone can give some positive advice for me, what to make them with, how to make them, I would be really grateful.  I dont want to plant a lot this year, just salad, tomatoes, strawberries (in a 3 tier planter) and perhaps carrots and onions, so the area wont be a large one. 

ps i am NOT lazy!!!!
Welcome to A4A Bluis - looks like youv'e wandered into 1 of those hot topics that everyone basically needs to agree to disagree  ;D For info on raised beds, I don't have them (but haven't ruled them out  8) ) try the search function at the top of the page - loads of useful info on here
1066
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: 70fingers on April 08, 2009, 11:01:11
Hi,

We use a mix of wooden raised beds, earthed up raised beds and the conventional rows..

I like the idea of raised beds they are easier to manage, you dont walk on them and you can sit and weed. For us it was easier to break the plot down into manageable beds.

We dont have the money to buy them so we have used old recycled timber, ie pallets, builders off cuts.

For us as novices it was always about experimenting, making use of old practices and exploring some new ones for example permaculture. I really don't believe there is a right or wrong way, its all about giving it a go  to see if it works for you.

http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments1_homepage.html has some lovely pictures of what you can do with raised beds and some tips on how to build them from deckingboards.

Maybe in ten years time I will have a different view on raised beds I dont know, but at the moment I am having a jolly good time experimenting - fun this growing lark aint it!!? ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!) on April 08, 2009, 11:31:41
All

It depends on site, climate, soil, lifestyle, what you grow, how much time you have spare, cost, motivation, taste as to which style of bed you use.  As long as you have the perception that it works for you and you enjoy it then you are doing the best thing for you.  There isn't a right or wrong.

However, I do wish people would drop the 'lazy' or 'following the trend' view of those using beds though - personally I find it a bore and I can not believe how much of a talking point it is!!

It's the growing and enjoying it that counts huh?  :D

Psi
x
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: asbean on April 08, 2009, 11:35:52
Welcome to A4A BLUis.  Why not try a combination of raised beds and traditional open plot and see how you do. I started off six years ago with the intention of putting in one raised bed, we ended up with 17 and the three beds I dislike the most are the ones not boarded in.  They are wonderful to sit on the side and weed or water, and it is easy to strim between the beds.  The only problem is that they are a bit too close together for my sons' large feet.  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Barnowl on April 08, 2009, 11:38:08
What's the evidence of lower yields? Plants are normally closer together on a bed system, raised or otherwise, as you don't need to leave space to get between the rows.

The only figures I can find on the effect of spacing on yields is based on open field systems. As Eristic says there is an optimum spacing for maximum yield in open fields but as Robert says I doubt whether this same spacing applies to raised bed systems. Furthermore the optimum yield is often stated per weight of seed (the cost of which together with fertiliser cost largely determine his potential profit) whereas the allotmenteer is presumably more interested in yield per area.

Raised/heaped beds benefits include: more precision in fertiliser application, weed suppression is easier so less nourishment is 'stolen', the soil warms up sooner (is this a good thing?), fertiliser can be applied more heavily than would be practical/economic in an open field. Against that the soil is prone to drying out.

From a purely empirical viewpoint, historically raised beds have always been more densely planted and if that affected yields adversely I think the practice would have been abandoned long ago.

Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!) on April 08, 2009, 11:44:09
an empirical examination of the 2 methods on my site suggest the following:

Raised beds: walk ways between beds - perhaps 15% of the plot is walk way/paths

Non-raised/Traditional/open bed: a walk way between each row of veg - therefore up to 50% of the plot walk way/paths.

Conclusion:

Non-raised/Traditional/open bed system gives the perception of one large plot with no walk ways.  In reality between each row is a walk way.

Psi

Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: 70fingers on April 08, 2009, 11:57:32
Nerds! ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: saddad on April 08, 2009, 12:03:52
Welcome to the site BLUis... don't be put off... sometimes we go spiralling off on our own personal rants...  ::)
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on April 08, 2009, 12:22:02
Another negative of the traditional row method is the amount of walking between rows that goes on. I don't know how much the compaction affects crops, but I'd have thought it would have some impact.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: tim on April 08, 2009, 12:50:39
Without harping back - just one more opinion:

When I was young, no need to think about raised beds. And digging always better in the long run than rotovating.  But being away from home 5/7 for 14 years, I majored on a rotovator.

Now I just LOVE the orderliness of raised beds. The ease of cultivation - all hand done. No lifting. Each is a single task tackled & done. And small scale crop rotation is a doddle. BUT yes - they do dry out & need watching.
But again - I would not attempt Potatoes or Brassica, or other space-consuming plants. Great for eg Brassica seedbed.
We have 8 at the moment & I have divided the rest of the plot into 15'x15' sections. Same principle.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Melbourne12 on April 08, 2009, 14:17:16
BLUis, I don’t know whether this helps, but we’re gradually replacing our inherited and rotting raised beds with ones that can be removed for ease of digging.  They can also be given a lick of wood preservative each season.

The (rather crude) diagram shows how they’re made.  The sides are decking planks, which are cheaply available secondhand, or free if you’re lucky.  Each corner gets a reasonably stout length of fencepost timber for a leg.  Joins are simply a couple of pieces of floorboard or similar glued and screwed to one length of decking, with the adjoining one simply slotted in.

On our plot most beds are made with just one join half way down the bed, but a few require two joins.  Same principle.

During the season we leave grass paths between the beds, and strim them to keep them neat.
[attachment=1]
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Deb P on April 08, 2009, 15:37:51
I also use a mix of raised beds and 'long rows', and used raised beds on one side primarily as a method of contolling the horrendous couch grass problem I inherited and poor acidic clay soil that had not be grown on for years. We also used pallet wood to build them, so cost in time only. I grow potatoes and brassicas successfully in the raised bed side, as last years photo shows (potatoes in the furthest 4 beds, brassicas netted in the middle, roots on the left and sweetcorn nearest).

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/dlp133/Plot%2098/june08a.jpg)

Long rows side.....

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/dlp133/Plot%2098/june08c.jpg)

I planted earlies under fleece in late February until the frosts had given up, and got good crops in early June, so I could follow on with squashes etc.
I haven't found any crops so far that don't like raised beds! I particularly like the way you can change the soil to suit your crops in each individual bed: last year I used old growbags to top up the soil in the roots bed, and got some really good carrots and parsnips.

This year the potatoes and brassicas are going on the 'long row' side, just how the rotation worked out. I found the potatoes very easy to harvest in raised beds, and there was also the advantage of the brassicas being easy to net; I use old mini greenhouse frames to give me a higher net frame for PSB and broccoli.

I like the look of them....but don't expect everyone to want to garden like me though! It would be a bit boring if we all did the same eh ... ;)
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Busy Bee on April 08, 2009, 16:12:44
I'd really like to put in some raised beds. Trouble is i'm on quite a slope and don't really know how to start getting  them level.
On this subject i'm thinking that variety makes the world go round. I agree with DebP in saying what a boring world it would be if we all did the same thing.
I do wonder though is it easy t o rotavate with the beds in place.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Sparkly on April 08, 2009, 16:23:30
Like Deb we have 1/2 the plot in raised beds and half the plot standard row style. I like the raised bed look and the fact I can potter around tending the plants in the summer with sandals and not worry about walking on the soil. It is also easy to net or fleece around the beds. Last year we only had a small(ish) number of raised beds, but as they worked well we have increased the number.

 
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Deb P on April 08, 2009, 16:35:51

I do wonder though is it easy t o rotavate with the beds in place.

You could just about manage it with a Mantis or similar, but I find it easy to fork over and incorporate manure etc, plus use a lot of mulches overwinter and let the worms do the work, then fork over in Spring. As you can see, I am very lazy....... ;)

You can do raised beds on a slope, you can just about see that mine are sloped a bit, the plot is about a third of a way up a hill. If you were on a massive slope I guess you would have to terrace them, but with relatively low sides we just followed the slope! ;D
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Justy on April 08, 2009, 21:24:44
Trouble is i'm on quite a slope and don't really know how to start getting  them level.
 
I do wonder though is it easy t o rotavate with the beds in place.

I think that generally the idea is that rotavation is not needed as there is no compaction of the soil.

My site gently slopes and I have just gone with the slope too and although it does drive me a bit mad when I look at the beds from a certain angle it was easier than trying to get everything completely level.
Title: Re: raised beds?
Post by: Mr Smith on April 10, 2009, 11:45:24
I've just constructed another raised bed this morning, I lined it with weed suppressant and then emptied the contents of one of my compost bins in the bottom with chicken pellets and growmore, would a cheapo compost and a topsoil mixture be suitable to finish the raised bed off, :)
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