Allotments 4 All
Produce => Kept Animals => Topic started by: Poet on March 18, 2009, 12:15:49
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Myself and lots of other chicken keepers want to get pet chickens to be removed from this all encompassing 'livestock' term so that everybody can keep a few chickens in their garden if they want to by signing the following petition!
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/GardenPoultry/
please also join our facebook group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=55594908075&ref=nf
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This is so sad, during the war and afterwards people were allowed to keep chickens, so what has happended to that law?
below the link from BBC just incase you cannot access facebook.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7926539.stm
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Done x :)
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I agree you should be permitted to a maximum of say.....4. No cockerels though and the number would need to be capped. What about some breeds that are noisy? I do have hens on my plot but would not want loads in nextdoors garden at home.
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Nothing against chickens but I do not want a cockerel next door, or to smell chicken poo on the wind when I sit in my garden!
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Chickens aren't noisy, most people don't keep cockerals unless they are in the country. Chickens don't smell - but their housing can if not cleaned regularly - but so can rabbits, guinea pigs etc, not to mention dog and cat poo!!!!
Most hen keepers are fastidious about keeping everything clean - I know I am! My chickens are great company and make great pets, they follow us around chatttering to us as they go !
These by-laws are usually un-enforceable, most councils do not enforce them. My council were happy for me to keep chickens as long as I had below 50!!!!!! The enviromental health peeps willl only get involved if there is a hygiene issue.
The issue of covenants is another question. These are usually put in by new housebuilders and are there to protect the look of the new housing development whilst they are still building the houses (open plan front gardens was one of mine). Once all the houses are finished and the builders have moved on - they don't enforce them. If you break one of these covenants - it would need the person who applied it to take you to court to enforce it and builders are just not interested in that! The only exception is when a house is built in a conservation area - then they have a duty to keep the look that was outlined on the planning permisssion and may well have to enfoce covenants.
Louise
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I think if peolpe had more contact with chicken we would have less battery eggs and broiler chickens. It is a common idea that chicken are stupid but it is just not right. Mined are as bright as my mum's spaniel, and hes not thick :)
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I think if peolpe had more contact with chicken we would have less battery eggs and broiler chickens. It is a common idea that chicken are stupid but it is just not right. Mined are as bright as my mum's spaniel, and hes not thick :)
Having watched a pair of my friends springers getting so excited that he was coming out of work and jumping up and down in the back of the car so much that they knock themselves out on the roof, I can well believe that there are amoeba that are brighter than some spaniels :D
chrisc
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First of all I'm not anti Poultry I would love to have chickens in the back yard if I lived in the middle of nowhere but not in a residential area on some housing estate, no matter how clean you keep them they will still attract vermin, Rabbits, Cavies and cage birds kept avaries all attract vermin, don't tell me they don't they do, try buying a Victorian property with plenty of land at the rear and more than likely in the deeds it will state that you can keep animals and poultry, :)
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Can or can't? I used to live in a Victorian (1840) cottage in Cornwall; they all had stuff in the deeds banning washing and veg in the front gardens, because they were overlooked by the pit owners' houses. Try enforcing any of that in court!
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Chickens do pong a bit but then the house next door but one to me have 2 dogs and they smell a fair bit. And I personally don't like the smell of my neighbours cooking.
I think there are standards which should be put down with regards to how many are allowed in an alloted space.
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Just done that!
I would love a couple of chooks, not allowed them at home or the lottie :'(
I agree there needs to be rules and regs on how many and no cockerels in a built up area, but a few should pose no more problems than any other animals most people keep.
Vermin are a problem with or without other animals in the area and with good hygiene and traps can be kept under controll.
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Hi,
Sorry to dig up an old topic but came across this searching for something else.. and as it hasn't been mentioned yet I thought i would remind people of The Allotments Act 1950.
The Allotments Act 1950, Chapter 31, Section 12 states that regardless of clauses in leases/ tenancies/ covenants/ contracts or agreements to the contrary, the occupier of any land can keep hens and rabbits on it, for their own use, so long as they set up and maintain adequate housing and so long as they make sure that the hens/rabbits don't become a nuisance or pose a threat to health.
(Office of Public Sector Information website - www.psi.gov.uk (http://www.psi.gov.uk) and search for Allotments Act 1950 Chapter 31 to read the full text)
Someone on another site has previously sought legal advice and asked whether this means that they could keep chooks in their garden, despite the covenant in their deeds and even though their housing company/developer told them they couldn't - this is what they were told:
"the Allotments Act 1950 (and any other Act of Parliament) overrides all other sources of law, apart from European Directives"
To date this act has not be amended, so anyone having problems should seek legal advice!
HTH's
Isleworth
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Many thanks for this, my parents have been after keeping chickens on their allotment and was told that they could not as it was stated in the covenants.
Obviously I have emailed them the link, now all we have to do is wait for the poo to hit the fan!
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great info...thanks....
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Here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1950/cukpga_19500031_en_1
it states
" Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any lease or tenancy or in any covenant, contract or undertaking relating to the use to be made of any land, it shall be lawful for the occupier of any land to keep, otherwise than by way of trade or business, hens or rabbits in any place on the land and to erect or place and maintain such buildings or structures on the land as reasonably necessary for that purpose: "
not Regardless of clauses in leases etc. etc. :-\
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The covenant bit is only legally binding if the developer is still in buisness.If they went bust then all restrictions are null and void.Many building firms put restrictions like no caravans,no walls or fences in front garden,no tv ariels,but they're never followed through now.
Provided you're sensible with the amount of poultry and clean them out regulary-theres no reason why you couldnt keep them.
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Here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1950/cukpga_19500031_en_1
it states
" Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any lease or tenancy or in any covenant, contract or undertaking relating to the use to be made of any land, it shall be lawful for the occupier of any land to keep, otherwise than by way of trade or business, hens or rabbits in any place on the land and to erect or place and maintain such buildings or structures on the land as reasonably necessary for that purpose: "
not Regardless of clauses in leases etc. etc. :-\
Hi.
Wording may be different, but it still means the same thing... or do you understand the act to mean something else?
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Our house deeds (built 1950s) contain a covenant stating 'no livestock' but our local councillor suggested we ignore it so we got a little set up for 3 hens.
We asked the council environmental health dept for guidance and they sent an inspector to look at our set up. He said it was fine and also stated firmly that most rats etc were attracted by seed and other debris scattered from wild bird feeders and that our system of feeding in containers taken in at night was very hygienic.
We clean the house regularly and dump the contents in the compost bin and there is no smell at all.
We love our chooks and wouldn`t be without them now - or the lovely eggs!
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I disagree with the person who said that chickens will attract rats. Not if you take reasonable precautions about chicken feed etc. apart from anything else chicken feed is expensive and I have no intention of wasting it by allowing mice and rats to eat it. I also raised up my hen house and put it on wheels so rats will not take up residence underneath.
Cockerels in residential areas would bring the chicken keeper to the attention of Environmental Health re: noise nuisance so only a lunatic would keep one on a housing estate.
I keep my chickens at my mother in laws which is an older house surrounded by other houses with no problem.
I did not locate them at home because of restrictive covenant imposed by the builder over 20 years ago. Have since researched the topic. To complain about you ignoring the covenant the complainant would have to be able to show they suffered a financial loss by you breaking the covenant. That could apply while a builder is still selling houses but not after they have ceased to have an interest in the estate. In the present climate anyone else would not be able to claim they were suffering a financial loss because a neighbour was keeping chickens.
Trouble is my wife has seen what chickens would do to the lawn so they are staying put at present.
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She`s right, you wouldn`t have a lawn left if you let the hens on to it. It`s not the eating of the grass that`s the problem, it`s the scratching.
I`ve got my hens fenced off at one end of the garden where I`ve got fruit trees etc and there`s not a single blade of grass in that area but the soil is scratched to the finest of fine tilths!
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Many thanks for this, my parents have been after keeping chickens on their allotment and was told that they could not as it was stated in the covenants.
Obviously I have emailed them the link, now all we have to do is wait for the poo to hit the fan!
WELL..? did it....?hit the fan... ;D..I'm really interested what is going to happen..we have this argument going on in our site..opinions are at the moment 50/50..so if I drop the legal stuff to argument...I don't think I'll me treasurer next year .. ::) oh..well..one have to what is right...I love chickens..... ;D
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Many thanks for this, my parents have been after keeping chickens on their allotment and was told that they could not as it was stated in the covenants.
Obviously I have emailed them the link, now all we have to do is wait for the poo to hit the fan!
WELL..? did it....?hit the fan... ;D..I'm really interested what is going to happen..we have this argument going on in our site..opinions are at the moment 50/50..so if I drop the legal stuff to argument...I don't think I'll me treasurer next year .. ::) oh..well..one have to what is right...I love chickens..... ;D
You dont want to be treasurer do you? That is a god awful job. It is usually the post that everyone tries to avoid. I am a secretary of one society and i remember the appointment of the treasurer was like giving someone the poisoned chalice.
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Ok..nearly a year later on this topic and we are still battling for and agains on this issue..and our society's AGM is next weekend :-X I already know this keeping chickens issue is coming up again ::)
So could somebody clear my 'foggy' brain up and spell it loud and clear the answer for our issue...
We are private site..on our rules (originally 1948) chickens were allowed, this rule was then amended against with majority vote. Does the allotment act over ride our own rules or not?
I suspect I'll be the one who 'loads the gun' if needed from the chiken keepers side ::)
You dont want to be treasurer do you? ..not particularly,,but somebody has to do it ::)
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ANYBODY ???..please...AGM is tomorrow..I wan't to be ready for a fight!!! :-X
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Rules that do not allow chickens on allotments are irrelevant and can be ignored. The law says you are allowed hens (unless a nuisance is caused to other plot holders).
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Thank you RW ;)..and thank you for a kind PM confirming the same(you know who you are)..
I might let them vote first before I drop the good new ;D ;D :-X
I wish I could 'stream' the meeting in live for you to see ;D ;D
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have a look here goodlife
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Edw7/8/36
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Do the allotment acts apply to private sites?
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Digeroo..yes it does..that was what I wasn't sure about too..but now that I've seen 'black on white' and having several people confirming the info and with copy of "NSALG" legal advisors email that says so..roll on..
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PHEWW!...AGM is over and done with for this year... ::)
No matter how I explained the allotment act rule..some folks still refuce to believe it would effect us ::) ..wouldn't even read the print out of the law ::)
But.. ;D ;D... by law there should be nothing to vote about...it did go to it and this time 2/3 of our share holders did agree with right to keep chickens ;D ;D..last year we lost by one vote!
Sooo...new chapter in our site is about start... ;D
One thing though is clear now...I'm not everybody's favourite list anymore...my halo is officially off..and stays so... 8)..I dare to go against the 'main stream'..
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Goodlife, you bad bad girl ;). Well done. Lets hope they soon get over it ::).
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Sometimes you just have to make a stand. You've won, anyway, and they'll have to live with it.
I know what you mean about people refusing to admit that the law applied to them. We had a couple of people at church who refused to admit that the Disability Discrimination Act meant that we needed a proper disabled entrance to the church shop. refused to admit that people tripped over the old entrance - despite the fact that we'd all done it - and claimed it wasn't a safety hazard. When we eventually had the work done, they made all sorts of trouble over the new door, but it all quietened down in the end. You can guess who had to handle all that. They''ll get used to it.
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i have already won against my council and it applies to all councils copy of letter from them below
Dear Mr ********
Allotments Act 1950
I refer to our correspondence/conversations in connection with the above and your request to keep hens on your allotment.
South Holland district Council has previously resisted requests for livestock on allotments due to concerns over there welfare and the impact on adjacent plots/residences. The above legislation however does permit hens to be kept on allotments.
I can confirm that you are therefore at liberty to have hens on your plot as requested all in accordance with Section 12 of the allotments act.
Yours sincerely
********
Neighbourhood Services Manager
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our village of Probus in Cornwall which is known as the 'Garden Parish' has always been agricultural and agrarian. So when a new estate was built 100 yards from my allotment i thought nothing of it. Until now that is. 50 yards from the allotment gates lies an old cornish cottage lived in for the last 25 years by the same couple, this couple have kept chickens in their orchard for 17 of those years. They now have had an abatement order served on them by Cornwall Council about their noisy Cockerels and have to destroy the poor birds. The complainant who lives on the new estate surely should have noticed the birds when he purchased the house ? why should a 'townie' move in and tell us country folk how to live ? he works away in Manchester for much of the time ? If the appeal doesn't succeed will he be able to have my and the 5 other chcken keepers chickens killed ? I have Cockerels, and need them to breed future years egglayers, I do not know of any artificial insemination for chickens. They only crow during the day and are locked away at night. anyone any ideas ???
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Shoot the townie? :-X
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Sounds like a plot line for "Midsomer Murders" ;)
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our village of Probus in Cornwall which is known as the 'Garden Parish' has always been agricultural and agrarian. So when a new estate was built 100 yards from my allotment i thought nothing of it. Until now that is. 50 yards from the allotment gates lies an old cornish cottage lived in for the last 25 years by the same couple, this couple have kept chickens in their orchard for 17 of those years. They now have had an abatement order served on them by Cornwall Council about their noisy Cockerels and have to destroy the poor birds. The complainant who lives on the new estate surely should have noticed the birds when he purchased the house ? why should a 'townie' move in and tell us country folk how to live ? he works away in Manchester for much of the time ? If the appeal doesn't succeed will he be able to have my and the 5 other chcken keepers chickens killed ? I have Cockerels, and need them to breed future years egglayers, I do not know of any artificial insemination for chickens. They only crow during the day and are locked away at night. anyone any ideas ???
I used to go through Probus regularly. This is disgusting, but it's typical. We had an excellent music pub down the road which had to close after they build yuppie flats a few yards away, and the inmates complained.
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hi Robert, as you know Probus is slap bang in the middle of Cornwall- how much more countryfied can you get? i think i'll drop the guy a line with some housing brochures of the Newquay area. The appeal is to be heard on the 15th April think i'll attend and ask the Judge what happens to the allotment chickens if the others are executed???
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People move to the countryside, but they take their townie attitudes with them unfortunately. Probus is a lot more scenic than Foxhole, so you're more likely to suffer from them. You get people complaining about farmers putting muck on their fields and all sorts of rubbish.
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hey robert, the latest idiotic nonsense is exactly that- only people are complaining about horse poo attracting flies in fields. cant fool those poo fles.
oh and by the way- the cornish alps of foxhole are fast dissapearing.
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What are they doing, shoving them back down the holes? I haven't been that way for years. As for poo flies, I wish they'd go and plague people like that. I'd have thought they'd find them congenial.
They're amazing; there aren't any horses round here, yet as soon as I spread some rotted grass cuttings in summer, they gather like the proverbial flies. I suppose they consider the smell to be similar.
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Thanks for the info Isleworth, i was just about to ask the question of keeping chicks.In my lease it states only certain allotments allowed to keep chickens.( the ones which tend to flood) May try and keep 2 girls and see what is said. May need to quote the act...
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I've read this with great interest. We are on a 'community' allotmetn site. Basically a new housing estate gave the Council the allotment site as their 'green' space for the estate.
The Council applied for some specific grant to do with improving peoples health, and so as wellas having an alotment we would be involved in workshops around cooking/healthy lifestyle etc - these havent happened yet.
I was told when we took the allotment on, by the allotments office that we couldn't have chooks cos it's a community allotment.
Now the council have handed over the management of this site to an external non-profit community group who have said they want us to be able to have chickens, and possibly more in the way of livestock and the group leader told me she would look in to whether we are allowed chickens, given the adice I was previously told.
Now having read through this thread, I think the Allotment Act would still apply to us? If this non-profit community group walked out on the scheme the allotments would revert back to the council.
If anyone could confirm that this does apply to us that would be great.
Thanks