Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: betula on January 26, 2009, 21:07:05
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Channel 4 now.
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im watching it now
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me, too, I'm waiting for a tesco advert to come on ;D
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Not going to bother with it. I think hugh is a pain in the ass. Cant stand the fella. 8)
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Love Hugh, but then we could all afford to eat amazing food if we were getting a nice wage packet from channel 4.
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Love him or hate him ,he does have the ear of the public.
I would leave chicken off the menu if I could not afford free range.
The sight of the disgusting treatment of the chickens just makes me feel I have no wish too be a part of it all.
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i have to agree love or hate is not the issue, the public for too long has been hood winked about the food being sold to them and the more people who are willing to expose the lack of informed choice available to the public re their food intake the better.
i know for myself it was what i found about the meat industry as a whole not just in Britain made myself and my husband choose to leave animal products to the best of our knowledge out of our diet (this was 11 years ago), if i was in a position to raise my own meat we would not have gone vegan, but at least i can try to produce most of my fruit and veg even if it is a slow pace at times.
i saw a show a few months ago (can't remember the title) but it was along the lines of most disgusting food in Britain, and one of the dishes they looked at was the commercial apple pie, well after i saw what was basically wallpaper paste and a few pieces of apple being passed along as food. i just knew no more cheap apple pie for me (not that i buy it but if i go out to relatives or a friend's house its sometimes offered as a sweet after a meal, etc) over the Christmas i simply wasn't able to put any in my mouth.
so he may be getting a fat pay check from Ch4 but won't you like to be paid big bucks to do something you like/ feel passionate about as he says he does ( i can only go by what he's said :-\). i know i would love a big fat pay check to expound on the benefits of growing and eating your own, etc, etc, etc and any of my other interests ;D.
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I think the programme you watched thifasmom was 'The True Cost of Cheap Food'. It was shown last Thursday, and again tonight at 11.05-12.10.
valmarg
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I think the programme you watched thifasmom was 'The True Cost of Cheap Food'. It was shown last Thursday, and again tonight at 11.05-12.10.
valmarg
nope it wasn't this one the one i saw definitely had the word disgusting in it :).
but this one you mentioned also sounds interesting what channel was it on?
i watched a replay of dispatches today it was concentrating on the topic of cheap food being made with better or more ingredients and the supermarkets taking a small cut in their billion dollar profit margins to ensure it still reached the customer at an affordable price (especially for the low budget incomes).
it was pushing the argument that along with the benefit of being a marketing giant they should also have a moral/ social responsibility to provide better food to the public re the nation's health...........
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all tesco could say was they wont change IF THEIR customers spending habits dictated that they wanted cheap chicken raised in a manner that was not suitable for any living thing.
i urge everyone to make it known to tesco that we dont want tesco to treat these animals as cruel as they do. i do not like supermarkets and dislike tesco more than any of them.
(from the mail 1st october) Tesco's profits surged by £146million in the first half of the year while shoppers were hit with a punishing rise in food bills.
Britain's biggest and richest retailer made a staggering £1.43billion in the six-month period - equivalent to £55million a week.
they could take the extra price of the better raised chickens off their vast profits without it hurting them,but they dont, they ALWAYS blame the customers spending habits.
you go into tesco (my local one) has 5 shelves of cheap tortured chickens, one shelf of free range, and half a shelf of better welfare chicken, surprisingly the free range and better welfare shelves are always empty,
if they reduced the cheap tortured chickens and increased the free range and better welfare, they would sell more.
i do not buy any meat from the supermarket i have a local butcher who i get better cuts from and cheaper. take a letter into your tesco demanding they change their ways.
make their excuse their downfall.
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It was on Channel 4 tonight. The thing with these programmes, they are repeated quite a few times, and I shall look out to see when it is on again, and let you know if I find it.
I could not become a vegetarian, let alone a vegan. An old aunt reckoned that the first word I spoke was 'meat'. ;D I would find life extremely difficult without meat.
We do our best to buy locally sourced humanely reared produce.
With regard to the cheap chicken, one item sticks out in my memory was a 'ruddy good value' chicken. It was extremely cheap, and seemed like a bargain at the time. When we came to eat it, it was dreadful. Tasteless pap.
I think that was one thing that HF-W left out of his programme. The fact that the chicken 'tastes' better if it has had a free run, room to scratch, etc. The basic chicken Tesco produce is tasteless pap.
valmarg
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It was on Channel 4 tonight. The thing with these programmes, they are repeated quite a few times, and I shall look out to see when it is on again, and let you know if I find it.
I could not become a vegetarian, let alone a vegan. An old aunt reckoned that the first word I spoke was 'meat'. ;D I would find life extremely difficult without meat.
I'll check and see if its on virgin catch up TV.
when i was a meat eater i enjoyed it but as a young adult it was never a big part of my diet a legacy i took from my childhood, so it was relatively easy to give up, now i don't miss it at all. but still miss (a little) and will partake in strong cheeses when I'm given the opportunity ;) (like when I'm in France visiting my sis and her husband).
With regard to the cheap chicken, one item sticks out in my memory was a 'ruddy good value' chicken. It was extremely cheap, and seemed like a bargain at the time. When we came to eat it, it was dreadful. Tasteless pap.
I think that was one thing that HF-W left out of his programme. The fact that the chicken 'tastes' better if it has had a free run, room to scratch, etc. The basic chicken Tesco produce is tasteless pap.
valmarg
yes its a point he didn't make in tonight's programme, but I've heard him make this point before, and one of the things he summarised through a small public taste test is the public have gotten so used to eating substandard meats and other products that the palate of most of Joe public doesn't even recognise the superior tasting food as better tasting it almost seems to be that their taste buds have become used to the pap :-\ :-X.
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if god didnt want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat ;D ;D ;D
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Everything I eat is vegetarian ;D ;D ;D
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Not a great fan of Hugh but i did like this programme Taking on the likes of Tesco is no mean feat and if the outcome is making the short life of chickens better then i have to say to him well done and to Tesco and others the public don't always think that cheap at any price is the best.
Now i wonder who is going to come on to the telly next to fight the corner of farmers who are not getting a fair price for the milk there cows produce ?
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I have sent a letter to Tesco. I will never use their shop again if they let the likes of HFW dictate how I should be buying my chicken. I like bland, I like cheap, I don't give a ~@)* about how my meat gets there.
But most of all I do not want to be told by a pratish TV chef who everybody thinks the sun shines out of his @rse.
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It's all to do with price some people just cannot afford so called happy chicken.
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I wouldn't imagine chicken mc.crapburgers come from happy chickens, either :)
I thought tesco's came out in quite a bad light, wouldn't use them anyway
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nope it wasn't this one the one i saw definitely had the word disgusting in it :).
Britain's really disgusting foods
presented by Alex Riley
I remember it because our lot were struck by the sheer awfulness of the ad campaign they developed as part of it, and went around singing "Mr Riley's pies" for weeks afterwards :-[
Sally
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ACE your CONSCIENCE should dictate what one you should buy.
FROGLEGS i have fed 6 on a tight budget many many times i do not think price is an issue. say they are 3.50 each or two for a fiver just pay 4.50 for a better one and there you go better off by 50p
MANICSCOUSER chicken mc.crapburgers kfc and the like all use cruel chicken and you right more noise should be made about these evil wrongdo ers too.
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If price is really an issue as to which chicken you pick up in the supermarket, why don't you take something out of your trolley that you don't really need for the extra £1! Maybe a packet of biscuits or crisps that is no good for you and only there to make your arse spread! Called balancing your budget!
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If price is really an issue as to which chicken you pick up in the supermarket, why don't you take something out of your trolley that you don't really need for the extra £1! Maybe a packet of biscuits or crisps that is no good for you and only there to make your arse spread! Called balancing your budget!
Contentious, but would have to agree ;D ;D
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I have sent a letter to Tesco. I will never use their shop again if they let the likes of HFW dictate how I should be buying my chicken. I like bland, I like cheap, I don't give a ~@)* about how my meat gets there.
But most of all I do not want to be told by a pratish TV chef who everybody thinks the sun shines out of his @rse.
Ace, I am really disappointed with you. What you are saying then is that you don't give a ~@)* about how these chickens are bred, how they are packed together so closely in a shed without windows, where they cannot perch, cannot walk around freely and spend all day sitting in their own poo. Would you like to live like that? All HFW was asking Tesco to do was to have their farmers follow the code of practice laid down by the RSPCA.
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I have hens and they are reared for eggs not meat; and I have the room for them to have quite a bit of space on my allotment. If all these cheaper chickens were to be replaced with free range then eggs and chicken they would still probably be more expensive because they would require more land to provide the current quantity of food - or there would be less produce in the same space therefore keeping prices up. A recent TV program said the armed forces use 500,000 eggs and several thousand chickens per month in one camp in Afghanistan. Now just who is going to foot the increased bill if the Armed forces ate free range eggs and chicken.
Money talks - and as long as it does I won't pay the price difference for free-range chicken. Each to their own and those who have spare cash to buy the free range produce all well and good. At the moment the majority seem to rule and like it or loathe it..... that majority at this moment in time is not free range.
if god didnt want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat ;D ;D ;D
I like it. ;D ;D.
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nope it wasn't this one the one i saw definitely had the word disgusting in it :).
Britain's really disgusting foods
presented by Alex Riley
I remember it because our lot were struck by the sheer awfulness of the ad campaign they developed as part of it, and went around singing "Mr Riley's pies" for weeks afterwards :-[
Sally
yes thats the one :). i think it was also shown a few times or maybe it had more than one episode, but i only watched it once on i player and never tuned into it when i saw it on the telly so can't say if it was the same episode being repeated or if there were new episodes.
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Not a great fan of Hugh but i did like this programme Taking on the likes of Tesco is no mean feat and if the outcome is making the short life of chickens better then i have to say to him well done and to Tesco and others the public don't always think that cheap at any price is the best.
Now i wonder who is going to come on to the telly next to fight the corner of farmers who are not getting a fair price for the milk there cows produce ?
Aren't we just about to have the next installment - either Hugh or Jamie is going to highlight the issues affecting pig farmers, the way this industry runs, and how we are importing much more pork - as our restrictions are stricter in the UK, our lovely supermarkets import cheaper, unfairly treated stuff from overseas. Thursday night I think
Poor little pigs :(
Joolieeee
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Money talks - and as long as it does I won't pay the price difference for free-range chicken.
TRUE, But don't you agree that that it should be freedom of choice. How can you make an informed decision at the supermarket if the lables don't inform you. I personally would not wish to go back to eating the 30% more fat/2 for a £5 kind of food now that I have been converted by taste. But probably most people would pay the extra 90p for the rspca standards bird wouldn't they???
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Thursday night I think
Poor little pigs :(
Joolieeee
YES THURSDAY 9PM CH4
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Made me laugh, expected someone on a low budget to spend her cash to help with the struggle, then in the next scene, he has his website begging bowl out to help him with his 84k bill from Tescos!!!!!!
and like the blinkered fools you are you pledge your money to bail him out
practice what you preach HUGH, you've got the cash, if you expect mothers on low incomes to commit why don't you!!!!!
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Free range chicken tends to be about 50% more expensive, but even so is under £2 a 1lb for whole birds (around a third of the cost of lamb chops), surely not a huge price to pay?
Just as I look at the ingredients list in packaged food, I try to find out out what the birds have been fed on - feed largely determines the flavour though not the texture. I'm most concerned about the antibiotics that are added to their feed as a matter of course by some producers (I wouldn't call them farmers), but this isn't a disclosure requirement. Since Organic standards on antibiotic use are full of loopholes anyway, I go for well fed (cereal/veg only) free range.
PS I really want bans on pork imports from countries with lower standards than our own. From a welfare point of view, our UK standards are pretty low anyway bearing in mind that pigs are the most intelligent animal that we eat.
From a consumer point of view, well looked after free range pork tastes like a different meat to the flabby, flavourless supermarket cuts.
PPS How many people have heard of yolk colourants? These are added to laying hens (including free range) whose diet is such that otherwise their eggs' yolks would be too pale to market - although yolk colour has no bearing on the healthiness of an egg.
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Well I enjoyed Hughs prog.last night with his stance re: chickens. He managed to convert me in his last programme about chickens and now I buy from the local butcher. I get more meat on the chicken breasts, more tasty and instead of feeding only 2 people, I actually get 3 meals from them.
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don't you agree that that it should be freedom of choice.
But probably most people would pay the extra 90p for the rspca standards bird wouldn't they???
Yip. Everybody has their freedom of choice. Not everybody can afford the extra 90p though.
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don't you agree that that it should be freedom of choice.
But probably most people would pay the extra 90p for the rspca standards bird wouldn't they???
Yip. Everybody has their freedom of choice. Not everybody can afford the extra 90p though.
More like people want as much as they can get and decisions based upon an animals welfare does not come in to that. Freedom of choice is a good thing as long as it is based upon a full understanding of the relevant facts.
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I was put off low grade chicken by Marina Lewinska's book "Two Caravans" - if anyone wants a good read it is both entertaining and enlightening on the chicken production issues and on immigrant workers, strawberry picking etc. HFW simply carried the message a bit broader.
One of the most important aspects for me is that I only buy WHOLE chickens, and never breasts or diced meat as this has often come from abroad, is VERY low grade and can be labelled "British" simply by being packaged here. Same applies with other meats in supermarkets.
I don't mind paying the extra £1 for a nice chicken which I will use across 3 meals - as someone has already said, you would pay more for lamb chops. We don't have a huge budget for food and have kept to this principle even when we have been "scrimping and saving". I generally budget £5 for the sunday joint/chops/meat treat anyway. Rest of the week is largely vegetarian, occasional fish or leftovers from the meat.
Jamie is about to blow the gaffe on pork production on Thursday - particularly sow stalls which are banned in the UK now (fortunately). Personally I have found a good local farm shop which produces and traces all its own beef, pork and lamb produce. It isn't organic but it is is 10 times better than much of what is in the shops ! I'd rather pay an extra couple of quid for meat and eat less of it knowing it is produced honestly! Same principle with anything really.
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I've never wanted to eat battery chicken since I was a kid, and saw what it entailed. My mum used to keep bantams. At one point she got some ex-battery chickens, 'rescue' chickens I suppose. The state they were in was absolutely vile; half their feathers missing, too weak to stand or walk. One died quite promptly, but the transformation of the other two into healthy chickens was incredible to see, from the dreadful state they had been in.
To me, there's NO reason or excuse to treat animals that way, and I'm by no means a hardenened animal-rights campaigner - I'm not even vegetarian. I was, for years after that, but then came to the conclusion that it was better to actively support ethical farming than to simply avoid the issue.
I cringe even now when my chicken-aholic husband orders a chicken dish, if we're out or getting a takeaway, but I can't impose my will on him. Myself though, I never buy chicken except free-range. I also realised lately that I ought to be more careful about what pork products I buy.
We live pretty much hand-to-mouth, and I don't think FR chicken is wildly expensive, I think it's more that the factory stuff is shockingly cheap. If I couldn't afford to buy FR chicken, I'd buy it half as often, or do without. I don't get it when people say they 'don't care, as long as it's cheap'. Is that because we don't have to see the misery that goes on? Do people still 'not care' even if they see it for themselves?
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I was put off low grade chicken by Marina Lewinska's book "Two Caravans" - if anyone wants a good read it is both entertaining and enlightening on the chicken production issues and on immigrant workers, strawberry picking etc.
Yep, just finished reading it!if you weren't convinced before, you will be after reading this!
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Glad you enjoyed it Caroline. Have you read her other book "A short history of Tractors in Ukranian" too? Made me burst out laughing lots!
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what i think also needs to be mentioned is the effect of intensively farmed meat on human health.
just as we are aware of the use of pesticides and excessive use of man made chemicals in the growing of crops in relation to the nutrient value of the harvested crop. so the public needs to be educated on the high use of antibiotics and other additives used in intensively farmed animals. i cannot see how this could ever be to the public health's best interest.
like i said before i no longer miss eating meat, but if i was still eating meat i would like a lot of you buy the best that i could afford and simply eat less of it, IE quality rather than quantity should be the aim.
the world as i see it, has had enough quantity much to human health's detriment :-\.
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Yes. and not just human health - we are affecting animals, eco systems, the environment and all. I think one of the problems is that people just feel that whatever they do it is just such a complex web of problems that it can't help!
I think, getting back to the issue of chickens, the trouble is as helloghelen said, you can buy your home roast chicken free range, but people are eating ready meals, takeaways, sandwiches, school meals and restaurant meals. The thin end of the wedge is often that we have to become pariahs to control all that and a lot of people simply won't bother to start as they can see this.
However, if a campaign like HFW's or Jamies gets enough momentun people WILL do it because it then becomes social death not to! Daft I know, but true - look at free range eggs - they took years to overtake battery ones. After a certain point, the big manufacturers take it on board, eg Helmans maionnaise.
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Living in our part of Essex we have several farm shops, local butchers and also an abbatoire where we can buy direct in their own butchers, so I can be a little picky about the meat we have - however, we are on a tight budget at the moment and live in our overdraft, so I can appreciate why mums who only have X amount of pounds to spend pick up the cheaper meat options. I also only buy whole chooks and joint them, then boil the bones for the stock - a chook has to do a good 3+ meals, but I am not complaining. I do think it is easy to say we should all eat the best food there is, but I really do believe there are people out there that need to feed their families, and they really can't afford the more expensive free range options.
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I feel for you EJ. We have now come out of a phase of extreme budgeting, but still have to be careful. There was a time when I worked out how much housekeeping I had each week and took it out in cash! I would then go around the supermarket with a calculator and a list. It is a hard time, but it is one where you hone your skills and you don't lose them afterwards.
Keep smiling!
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i disagree i have had 20.00 before now to feed the 6 of us, and 1 decent free range chicken £5.00 has provided 3 meals for 6 people it is affordable, it can be done, ive done it many times.
sunday roast chicken (white meat)
monday chicken and potato pie (dark meat)
tuesday chicken stew (everything left in a pot boiled up, bones removed)
or chicken wraps, chicken burgers (homemade) fried chicken.
ok you might get fed up with chicken 3 days in a row but when your skint its food youll eat it.
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Glad you enjoyed it Caroline. Have you read her other book "A short history of Tractors in Ukranian" too? Made me burst out laughing lots!
Yes, both great- roll on the next one!
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I have sent a letter to Tesco. I will never use their shop again if they let the likes of HFW dictate how I should be buying my chicken. I like bland, I like cheap, I don't give a ~@)* about how my meat gets there.
But most of all I do not want to be told by a pratish TV chef who everybody thinks the sun shines out of his @rse.
ACE, you will be doing yourself a favour if you refuse to shop at Tesco anymore. The meat (apart from, and including chicken) is atrocious. It is a crying shame that so many animals have been slaughtered to produce such tough rubbish.
Whilst you may not be a fan of HF-W, his intentions are good, even if his application may be poor.
We try to source our meat/veg locally. The less airmiles it uses, the better it tastes, and homegrown is the bestest of all/ ;D ;D
valmarg
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I don't go there anyway. Too many people take their rugrats shopping there and they seem to run wild.
Somebody said earlier that I should be ruled by my concience over this issue, I don't have one when it comes to my food. I leave that to people that are soft in the head. Convince me that chickens really know the difference I might change my mind.
I don't suppose chickens really care about rspca guidelines just as they don't care about us stealing their eggs to eat, instead of naturally hatching them out like other birds.
Or do they? Now that would not do would it, feeling guilty everytime you had an egg.
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Views on Halal chicken......................just to widen the debate ???
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Ace..............don't believe a word of it ::)
Downtoearth.........don't start me on that one.
In fact over the last few days I have come to a decision.............I am going to stop eating meat,the more I discover the more it sickens me
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Okay, just going off at a tangent......do you all buy orgnanic, local, fair trade etc when buying tea, coffee, bananas, sugar and so on.
Don't shout at me, I do try to eat local, and so on, just want you to think that perhaps it isn't just animals that suffer in these debates.
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apart from things like coffee oranges etc everything is from the uk, fairtrade is a scam imo so i dont support it, the farmers have to pay to be in the fairtrade scheme its about £1500. in our money.
so the poor farmers who cannot pay, do not benefit.
i do not buy beans from india or meat from the eu or razor blades from france etc.
i have never been on holiday abroad and i dont agree with carbon offsetting (another scam), i do drive a 4x4 but my total milage last year was 1086.4 miles
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Regardless of whether the chickens, etc are aware of being happy/ not i personally would not want anything looking that sickly in my body :-X.
and yes most of us may not be able to meet all the ideals re good/ great food production etc but it doesn't mean you can't work towards it and one way to do this is to ensure that we the customers are properly and honestly informed of where and how our food of choice gets to us. it is only by having this information can we honestly buy our food responsibly which will make it easier for our money to talk to the conglomerates that benefit from our spending.
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Money talks - and as long as it does I won't pay the price difference for free-range chicken.
TRUE, But don't you agree that that it should be freedom of choice. How can you make an informed decision at the supermarket if the lables don't inform you. I personally would not wish to go back to eating the 30% more fat/2 for a £5 kind of food now that I have been converted by taste. But probably most people would pay the extra 90p for the rspca standards bird wouldn't they???
When you are trying to make ends meet ..then NO.
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In my opinion, I feel it is down to each and every individual to make the choices that suit them and nobody should be made to feel guilty if they buy cheap/mass produced foods.
If money were no object, then I would only buy the best, but it is, and I do as much as I can, but sometimes the man from Barclays, he say no.
People are made to feel guilty about so much it seems to me - clothes from most shops made in sweatshops, fish and meat farmed in less than ideal circumstances, coffee coming from underpaid farmers and so on.
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i don't think making the consumer feel guilty was the aim of the show or this discussion, why should anyone feel guilty if you weren't aware of all the information. the only people who probably feel guilty are those that have the facts about something they feel isn't right then go ahead and still add to the problem. if in acquiring the information you make an informed choice to change habits or not due to whatever reason then so be it why feel guilty. my philosophy is if you have all the facts when you made your choice and that's the choice you wish to live with then live make no apologies and just live by the choice that you have made.
it might not be the right philosophy but its the one i try to live by i know we are all connected and so i would not go out of my way to get something if i think it will harm someone else but once i have made my choice i live with it i don't blame or make apologies and if that information i used to make my choice changes then i review my choices and change to suit.
gosh i haven't a clue what I'm rabbiting on about anymore :-\, just wanted to say i don't think it was anyones intention to make anyone feel guilty about their food choices. but i think the aim was to say that we are not able to make our choices honestly if we are ill informed about the facts.
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If HW would like us all to eat happy chickens then he should be working towards getting the price down,not making us feel guilty because some of us cannot afford to live his Lark rise to Candleford way of life.Called in at Tesco on my way home from work,
3 None happy Chickens for £10.00
Tesco value chicken for £1.90 each
Free range chicken for £7-8.00 each
Corn fed chicken for £9.00 each
Organic chicken £12.60 each
My choice was 3 for the price of one happy chicken.
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After having used free range chicken bought at a farmers market for around £7.50, I'd never buy another chicken from Tesco or any other supermarket.
The difference in quality was so marked - the taste was better, the volume of meat was significantly greater, it didn't shrink down after cooking because it wasn't full of water. This might sound miserly, but I'm on a low income and can get 3 sets of meals for 3 adults (i.e. 9 adult meals) out of one of the farmers market chickens. Each meal still has much more than the level of proteins etc that adults need daily.
First meal usually a roast, second meal a stew, or curry, third meal generally somthing that uses the rest up, like a good rich soup or stir fry with noodles.
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I imagine a lot of people have not even tried organic chicken.
I think if they had they would realise how much further the meat will go.
Also some people will eat any rubbish if they imagine they are saving a few pence.
It is all about educating yourself.
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As Betula has said it is mainly down to education.
Ace you are not eating baby chickens when you eat eggs you know! There are no cockerells in the battery farms - equally there are very few around many off the farms. Chickens are mass produced on farms where "fertile" eggs are hatched. The ones that my chickens produce do not have baby chickens in!
As with you Betula - I am now 95% vegetarian - and really I am as fit as if I were eating meat - and certainly feel healthier for it too!
Old Bird
;D
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3 None happy Chickens for £10.00
My choice was 3 for the price of one happy chicken.
wow :o talk about value for money more fat, more water, more antibiotics, more additives and sometimes more growth hormones, yum as Tesco says everylittle bit helps :P.
for the sake of information;
http://amerrierworld.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/the-chicken-of-tomorrow/ (http://amerrierworld.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/the-chicken-of-tomorrow/)
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we can't afford to shop at an out of town supermarket, it costs too much to get there!! ;D ;D ;D
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we can't afford to shop at an out of town supermarket, it costs too much to get there!! ;D ;D ;D
Point taken, and also for many (most?) people here, there's a level of poverty in Britain today of which many peeps may be unaware? Cooking a chuck, even a cheapo one, and making it stretch to provide a 'main' meal for three days is v. commendable BUT it presupposes an access to/ability to buy a cooker (+ resultant gas/leccy bills) + fridge & the cost & running costs of that + buying utensils + condiments + accompaniments (yer part of a 5-a-day?) + balancing all that out between feeling full and sustained for x hours as against taking you through 24 hrs? Job-seeker's allowance is only bout £45 (ish) a week after rent+Poll Tax :P are paid & many have to furnish and live in v.v.v.basic accommodation on that even before the cost of eating & keep themselves clothed and full of optimism that Things will really Get Betta too...
It can be a hard, hard life out there and please don't under-estimate it. It's for real. :'( Poor poor sods.
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I think the other thing which is often overlooked is how difficult it is to "shop around" and be fussy if you have small children and no car. Yes, there are delivery options but these do have penalties of minimum amounts or charges and you often get produce you wouldn't have chosen, e.g the pack with a broken carrot, green celery, close to sell by date. The petrol to get about comes into it too.
Then there are the skills to strech food cleverly into the 3 meals, and for all the others.
The sad thing is, previous generations did just that - there were no cheap offers or mass produced cheap options. We have a long road to re-learn those skills!
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And there is also the problem for people who work long hours in that getting to local shops is a non starter as they aren't open when I'm not in work. Weekends are precious so we try not to spend them shopping - that gets done by one or other of us on the way home of an evening.
Yes I know we then have the choice of what to buy, but not often where.
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The sad thing is, previous generations did just that - there were no cheap offers or mass produced cheap options. We have a long road to re-learn those skills!
This is so true
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As Betula has said it is mainly down to education.
Ace you are not eating baby chickens when you eat eggs you know! There are no cockerells in the battery farms - equally there are very few around many off the farms. Chickens are mass produced on farms where "fertile" eggs are hatched. The ones that my chickens produce do not have baby chickens in!
So thats natural is it? Most birds lay eggs and then hatch them. They do not lay eggs day after day, even if they are free range. But that is not classed as cruel when we thieve them every day. Yet keeping a load of birds in the warm, plenty of feed, no stress, no foxes is frowned upon, well it never used to be until Hugh and Co started gobbing off.
Chickens are thick, I used to keep them, I would go out with a handful of corn shouting WHO WANTS TO DIE TODAY. They all came running up to me, I would grab one and wring its neck, the rest would go on eating. I would keep on repeating this every time I wanted a bird to eat. They never learnt.
If I moved their ark across my plot, they would not be able to find it, even if they could see it. So I do not believe it affects them at all being farmed intensively for the table. It affects your concience,not mine, so dig deep in your pocket and feel good. Don't shout on about taste everything 'tastes like chicken' I like it bland so I get the taste of the sauce it is the host to.
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It all makes very interesting reading, I am enjoying this thread and the differences of opinion, and what is refreshing, it hasn't turned into insults and mudslinging. ;D
I was chatting to mum about this issue - she is a country girl from Devon, spent her childhood in Africa and then back in Devon until her teens. Our family in the west country have always farmed and the funny thing is, they won't eat their chooks because they roam free and eat any old crud from nuts and bolts to pecking over dead animals, and they really are free range chickens. I also know someone who keeps ducks and chook and he won't eat their eggs again, because he knows the sort of things his free range birds eat whilst out roaming around the garden.
My earlier comment about being made to feel guilty wasn't pointed at you thifasmom, I was talking about the royal we if you like, just suggesting that the press and media do at times try to make the public feel guilty over eating mass produced food, wasting the worlds resources etc. I personally am at the stage in my life that I can no longer be made to feel guilty, or suffer peer pressure to 'do the right thing', I have enough to deal with trying to look after my nearest and dearest and make ends meet. I am educated on where my food comes from, see farming background, and have been in many abattoires, seen animals killed, killed my own sometimes and am perfectly happy with my choices.
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And there is also the problem for people who work long hours in that getting to local shops is a non starter as they aren't open when I'm not in work. Weekends are precious so we try not to spend them shopping - that gets done by one or other of us on the way home of an evening.
Yes I know we then have the choice of what to buy, but not often where.
so you choose not to shop at the weekend, but you could. its making that change.
the whole point of hfw show was to show people who are ignorant of the way 3 for a tenner chicks are raised so they can make an informed choice, if you choose not to because of whatever, cost, time, then thats your choice, good luck to you. how many who moan about the extra cost, smoke, drink, go to the pub, nightclub, buy designer clothes.
the biggest problem is people have come to rely on the meal in a box and that has stpped them knowing the value of food.
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the whole point of hfw show was to show people who are ignorant of the way 3 for a tenner chicks are raised so they can make an informed choice,
WRONG! He wants the supermarkets to stop stocking cheap factory chickens. Which takes our choice away.
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It all makes very interesting reading, I am enjoying this thread and the differences of opinion, and what is refreshing, it hasn't turned into insults and mudslinging. ;D
gotta agree :D, its the only reason i have continued posting.
My earlier comment about being made to feel guilty wasn't pointed at you thifasmom, I was talking about the royal we if you like, just suggesting that the press and media do at times try to make the public feel guilty over eating mass produced food, wasting the worlds resources etc. I personally am at the stage in my life that I can no longer be made to feel guilty, or suffer peer pressure to 'do the right thing', I have enough to deal with trying to look after my nearest and dearest and make ends meet. I am educated on where my food comes from, see farming background, and have been in many abattoires, seen animals killed, killed my own sometimes and am perfectly happy with my choices.
i'm happy you weren't being rubbed the wrong way :).
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ACE..............Do not see the relevance of chickens being thick...........so what?? ::)
Do you expect them to understand the English language.............as you well know you were their food source.that is why they run to you.
I will always dig deep in my pocket for quality food.
I suppose I am lucky,I have a mother who taught me how to budget and get the most from my food.
I think we have talked about people not being taught the skills that choosing
and preparing good food needs.
I think the supermarket bought the end to a lot of that.
No argument could convince me that inhumane treatment is worth it.
I love meat and am finding it hard to resist but I have made the decision to opt out.Just trying to cook now in a way that I can still enjoy my food.
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ACE..............Do not see the relevance of chickens being thick...........so what
My point is they do not know they are supposedly being ill treated
No argument could convince me that inhumane treatment is worth it.
Who has decreed this is inhumane. Who is suffering? Open the shed doors, see how many birds will fly out. They won't, they are nice and comfortable.
There are too many people on this planet to feed with traditional farming practices. If you feel sorry for these animals that are factory farmed stop eating meat, but don't expect people like me to get caught up in the frenzy. I would be more inclined to agree with this argument if it was a scientific survey and not the whim of a tv chef and a television company watching its ratings.
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I have decreed it inhumane,and so have a lot of other people. :)
Do not need a scientific survey to see what is in front of me eyes.
Maybe the reason you lather the chicken in sauce is cus you ain't to keen on the taste of the chicken your eating :-\
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the folk who want to eat crap, let them!! ;D ;D ;D it's their choice ;)
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Precisley Tony.
Let them eat chooks at 3 a tenner however they were reared and pumped full of whatever, its up to them. I just know I get value for money with a free range chicken and get more meat than a Tesco Chicken and far far tastier, so there.
;D
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Em...................dare I mention Jamie oliver and the pigs tonight
Sharp exit :)
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Not watched it yet, recorded it because of Victorian Farm. Was it good? contraversial ? loads of swearing?
;)
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Em...................dare I mention Jamie oliver and the pigs tonight
Sharp exit :)
hee hee will catch tomorrow.
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Hope Ace did not watch it.........I can imagine him jumping up and down on his flatscreen ;D ;D ;D
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how many who moan about the extra cost, smoke, drink, go to the pub, nightclub, buy designer clothes.
::)
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ACE..............Do not see the relevance of chickens being thick...........so what
My point is they do not know they are supposedly being ill treated
No argument could convince me that inhumane treatment is worth it.
Who has decreed this is inhumane. Who is suffering? Open the shed doors, see how many birds will fly out. They won't, they are nice and comfortable.
There are too many people on this planet to feed with traditional farming practices. If you feel sorry for these animals that are factory farmed stop eating meat, but don't expect people like me to get caught up in the frenzy. I would be more inclined to agree with this argument if it was a scientific survey and not the whim of a tv chef and a television company watching its ratings.
Agreed.
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I saw them designer slippers you bought from Ikea..........go on ,deny it ;D
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ACE..............Do not see the relevance of chickens being thick...........so what
Open the shed doors, see how many birds will fly out. They won't, they are nice and comfortable.
the reason they won't fly out is because they cannot even walk, they dont have the room to be able to use there legs or their wings, they are deformed, abnormal, man made freaks of nature. never seen sunlight.
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Lots of comments about the birds bred to RSPCA welfare standards have a reasonably good life in this thread but I wonder how many of you actually know what those standards are. Below are just a few of the RSPCA's welfare standards.
Firstly RSPCA weldare standards for laying hens & pullets:
Barn raised hens max flock size 32,000 birds.
Barn raised simply means intensive, not caged but no access to the outside world, the barn in question is usually a former battery shed with the cages removed & a few minor modifications.
Free range hens max flock size 16,000 birds.
There must be ar least 1 pop hole per 600 birds.
Overcrowding inside the sheds causes difficulties to arise with the large numbers of hens. As the birds can only recognise a maximum of about 100 other hens, no pecking order, hence no social stability is established. This results in aggression, feather plucking and cannibalism. They are technically allowed access to the outside world as the law requires but many of the birds will never leave the house because the pop holes are guarded by more aggressive birds. As there are typically only 27 popholes for 16000 birds a very small number of birds can dictate which birds are or are not allowed to leave the house.
Supplementary rules for pullets.
Where birds are beak trimmed this procedure must be carried out between 5 and 10 days of age.
The maximum stocking density must not exceed 20kg/m2 of usable area at 16 weeks of age. When calculated at floor level this must not exceed 33kg/m2.
Beak trimming is where a hen has the tip of their beak removed with a red-hot cutter. The hen's beak is very sensitive so this causes immense suffering.
The stocking desisity translates as 14 birds per m2 if based on all available indoor space including nest boxes perches etc... or 23 birds per m2 if based purely on available floorspace.
RSPCA welfare standards for broiler chickens:
Stocking density which is calculated using the floor space available to the birds must not exceed 30kg/m2, 19 birds/m2.
For every thousand birds the following provisions must be provided.
a 1.5 straw bales
b 2m perch space
c one pecking object, eg: peck-a-blocks, brassicas, hanging wooden blocks.
In the case of free range birds the following minimum pop hole numbers must apply:
Up to 600 birds 1 pop hole.
over 600 birds 1 pop hole per 700 birds.
Each pop hole must be no smaller than 45cm high and 50cm wide.
There are no maximum flock sizes simply a rule saying 19 birds per m2. The provision of bales & perches is laughable when you consider that on average at least 20% of the flock will want to use them at any given time, thats 200 birds wanting to use the 1.5 straw bales & 2 metres of perch simultaneously. Pop holes are even more restricted than they are for laying hens so even fewer free range birds will be able to access the outside world.
There are plenty of people here who keep their own chickens but I bet none of you would keep your chickens like this.
(http://www.animalperson.net/./photos/uncategorized/2008/06/24/chicken1_682_514469a_2.jpg)
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/7117/ffhen2pg6.jpg)
The RSPCA's welfare standards are barely an improvement on the conventional farming methods. If farmers want to be freedom food certified they have to pay for the privilege. We are expected to pay more for the eggs & meat because people like HFW & Jamie Oliver claim freedom food chickens lead wonderful lives. Personally I don't believe there is enough of a difference in the quality of life to pay extra.
If you must have eggs from chickens that lead good lives then then keep chickens yourself. If you must have meat from chickens that lead good lives then get it from a local supplier who can tell you which farm it was produced on & you can go check up on the standards for yourself. It is not viable to produce either of these on a commercial scale.
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i agree rspca standards are not much better, but they are slightly better than normal rearing.
i still wouldnt eat one raised on rspca standards, but hey each to their own, your bottom picture shows 3 for 10.00, even the one laying down would be used as long as it was still breathing at the time of despatch.
near where i live there are a number of chickens being reared by a company supplying several well known fast food and supermarket places, believe me you wouldnt eat them if you saw and smelt how they lived.
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your bottom picture shows 3 for 10.00, even the one laying down would be used as long as it was still breathing at the time of despatch.
Both pictures are from an RSPCA approved farm producing 'Freedom Food' free range eggs, I could post pictures showing chickens on RSPCA approved farms living in much worse condition but I am sure nobody wants to see them.
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I saw them designer slippers you bought from Ikea..........go on ,deny it ;D
:-[....... :-X....... ;D ;D
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A few pages back on this site I mentioned a TV programme 'The True Cost of Cheap Food'. Well it's being repeated tonight on More4 at 7.55-9.00 p.m.
Sorry its taken me so long to find it.
valmarg
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Thanks, Valmarg - off to record it now.
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Well! keeping an open mind on food and things, I watched the programme, the presenter must have had a degree in 'stating the bleeding obvious'.
If you are lazy and don't work, or have more kids than you can afford, you are obliged to buy budget food in blue and white stripey packets at very cheap prices. Naturally this cheap food does not have as much nourishment as the more expensive food, but you haven't used a lot of energy to find it, so it trades off.
You can buy just as cheap if you go around your local shops hunting out bargains. The flaw in this is that the people on the blue stripey food are too lazy to earn a decent living so it stands to reason they will not waste energy doing that.
Nobody in their right minds will buy the budget food as it is bloody horrible. If you can't afford the good stuff, get a job or keep your legs together. SORTED.
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Nobody in their right minds will buy the budget food as it is bloody horrible. If you can't afford the good stuff, get a job or keep your legs together. SORTED.
Or get your 12 year old son to get in line and give a 14 year old slapper one then sell the story to the gutter press, init.
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If you can't afford the good stuff, get a job or keep your legs together. SORTED.
Try telling that to the thousands who have recently been laid off!! ;)
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If you can't afford the good stuff, get a job or keep your legs together. SORTED.
Try telling that to the thousands who have recently been laid off!! ;)
I have been through a few so called recessions and work shortages, never had to go on benefits all my working days. There's a job for everyone, even if it ain't the one you want.
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if god didnt want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat ;D ;D ;D
You are made out of meat and you have placed yourself on the menu - nto for me of course. 22 years a vegetarian/vegan
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DARN! I had wanted to see this..... one day too late :(
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DARN! I had wanted to see this..... one day too late :(
that's wot the i-player is for ;D ;D ;D
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if god didnt want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat ;D ;D ;D
You are made out of meat and you have placed yourself on the menu - nto for me of course. 22 years a vegetarian/vegan
50 Years a omnivore just as nature intended. ;D
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Actually, nature gave us a brain and the ability to choose. The teeth are a throwback. People who have made a choice not to eat meat have ascended above their base instincts and are no longer subject to their more primitive past at the expense of other living creatures. And, when we developed our teeth, we were chasing the animals with spears and not eating much meat. We now abuse animals, physically and mentally and produce meat on an industrial scale - as nature intended ::).
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Actually, nature gave us a brain and the ability to choose. The teeth are a throwback. And, when we developed our teeth, we were chasing the animals with spears and not eating much meat.
Actually,we developed our teeth when hominids left the forest for the Savannah,and as the main Savannah food was meat-which in turn required greater intelligence to gather, so nature gave them a bigger (energy-hungry) brain that needed plenty of high protein foods like meat, so along with the right teeth for the job and a bigger brain to cope with there new environment and to survive they became a omnivore. Thus modem man was born. ::) And who I'm i to argue with evolution. ;)
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Especially with them legs ;D ;D ;D
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Cheeky bugger :o nothing wrong with them there legs. ;D
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eeekkk I remember them legs,remind me of a couple of pipe cleaners. ;D
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We have two farm shops within 3 miles of our home. We buy all our meat from them. It's not as expensive as you would imaging. 1 shop even has a board comparing their prices with the local supermarket.
Our experience is that the farm shop meat is good quality, the food is labelled with the farm it came from so we hope we are supporting the farmers who produce the food in the first place not the shareholders of the supermarket chains.
I know not everyone can buy from a farm shop, nor does every farmer want to have a shop to sell the produce. But if we don't like what the supermarkets do with their suppliers then there is only one way to let them know - that's to stop buying from them.
Supermarkets definately have their place, we still buying washing powder and all the other stuff you need to run a family home - but we don't support their policy on meat, so we don't buy it.
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eeekkk I remember them legs,remind me of a couple of pipe cleaners. ;D
:o :-[ :-X ;D
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Have you been cleaning the floor as you walk about? those slippers look decidedly filthy since I saw them last.
(http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48514.0;attach=27478;image)
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Just a lack of flash ;D
That and the odd trip up to the glasshouse.
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Well! keeping an open mind on food and things, I watched the programme, the presenter must have had a degree in 'stating the bleeding obvious'.
If you are lazy and don't work, or have more kids than you can afford, you are obliged to buy budget food in blue and white stripey packets at very cheap prices. Naturally this cheap food does not have as much nourishment as the more expensive food, but you haven't used a lot of energy to find it, so it trades off.
You can buy just as cheap if you go around your local shops hunting out bargains. The flaw in this is that the people on the blue stripey food are too lazy to earn a decent living so it stands to reason they will not waste energy doing that.
Nobody in their right minds will buy the budget food as it is bloody horrible. If you can't afford the good stuff, get a job or keep your legs together. SORTED.
I take it you didn't enjoy the programme then. ;D ;D
valmarg
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No..just stating the bleeding obvious. ;D
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No..just stating the bleeding obvious. ;D
Oh dear, I've had the programme on telly twice, and haven't seen it yet. Got eyelid droop. ;D
valmarg
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DARN! I had wanted to see this..... one day too late :(
that's wot the i-player is for ;D ;D ;D
Whats an i player?
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The iplayer is the bbc's 'watch again ' sketch.
this one is ch 4 's
http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=chickens-hugh-and-tesco-too