Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: gardentg44 on December 23, 2008, 08:17:26
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been reading an old book this morning
theres a paragraph in there that says old soot swept out
of the chimmney and left at least six months will prevent
carrotfly. as any of the older generation heard of this?
or tried it .
the reason i said "older generation"the book was printed in
the 1940s
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Yes I have heard of it!! (giving my age away) but don't tell the PC brigade they might ban this too, that's if they haven't already!
The reason for 'aging' it is to remove the excess sulphur in the soot.
To take the 'soot' issue a stage it is this or should I say the lack of it in the atmosphere (smog) is one of the reasons for the development of 'back spot' on roses.
This was just another of the old remedies taken away from us by the PC brigade when they decided that heating fuels should be 'smokeless'
OK in this instance; I would rather suffer 'black spot than breathe in the smog.
Having said that what about all the fumes spewed out by vehicles on the road these days this might be worse, at least we could see smog.
We can't even use 'Bromophos (legally) as a substitute treatment for carrot fly simply because the PC brigade do not know the difference between preventative treatment and essential treatment!!
Back to the soot there were a couple of ways in which it was applied e.g.
Weathered as you mentioned and dug in.
Weathered and dried then it was dusted onto the growing carrots or applied in the drill at sowing time.
Or placed in a barrel of water and watered on, this was not always considered a good way because it was quite messy and (in my opinion) it covered the leaves thus preventing/reducing photosynthesis.
I hope this answers your question.
By the way! there are a number of types of soot i.e. depending upon the fuel being burned, e.g. Coal, Wood, Oil & Gas, consequently; each each had a different 'toxic chemical content' which hopefully it was thought 'weathering' would remove!!
So you see 'man made' products like 'bromophos' could be deemed to be 'fit for purpose' whereas soot, if you will pardon the pun, is 'black market' and perhaps not fit for purpose!
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Best way is to put up a 30 inch barrier around your carotts. Apparently the fly can't fly higher than 30 inches above ground level.
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lovely thread Tee Gee.
my dad used bromophos but they took it
off the market because the junkies where
injectin it , my dad said. does anyone know if
this was true?
and was it the same with colomel dust , and pbi ,cropsaver.
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A mind of information as usual Tee Gee, i just have to read your posts, so much knowledge, thank you .
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A dodgy subject this as it very much a personal thing to many i.e to use chemicals or not!!
I see what has happened in recent years as against the amateur gardener but not the commercial people i.e we don't have a level playing field.
As I understand the ' organic growers licence' the commercial people can still use 'chemicals' but not at the levels that caused the changes in legislation.
Whereas the amateur has virtually nothing at his/her disposal which quite possibly makes them more' organic' than those people who have a licence.
The thing is; how are these commercial people policed? and what chemicals have they at their disposal??
I see chemicals as 'plant medicine' and like in humans should only be used when required. However the commercial use them as a preventative measure meaning they use them whether they are needed or not.
This was the cause of the legislation being passed in the first place too many chemical residues were being found on fruit & veg in the greengrocers and this was not acceptable, and quite rightly too.
Plus there was the 'run off' into water courses resulting in marine plant & wildlife being affected.
But!! all this should have not initiated the 'blanket' cover that covered the 'amateur' as well as the commercial people.
As you can probably notice I am anti 'blanket cover' legislation what do the rest of you on A4A think?
Take the other issue that really gets up my nose; Peat & Peat substitutes again the 'amateur' is blamed for the shortages of this resouce yet one Irish peat burning power station will burn more peat than all the gardeners in the UK put together.
Similarly we the amateur are accused of causing 'water shortages' yet it is a known fact that more water is lost through decaying/badly maintained water mains.
Level playing field ??? ??? :P
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sorry Tee Gee but who is the pc brigade? ???
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sorry Tee Gee but who is the pc brigade?
The Politically Correct legislators (Government) who only seem to listen to the minority and the money people!
This is simply because it easier to shut up the few people who shout the loudest, and it also keeps their financial backers sweet.
Let me tell you I for one didn't get any of the recent 'handout' when my finances suffered recently!!
But then again its possibly because I am non organic, I use peat based products and water my garden/allotment when necessary. ::) ::) ;) ;)
oops!! sorry I am getting carried away and I am in the wrong forum for that!! Sorry!!
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As always Tee Gee, common sense in goodly proportions - couldn't agree more.
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Best way is to put up a 30 inch barrier around your carotts. Apparently the fly can't fly higher than 30 inches above ground level.
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Best way is to put up a 30 inch barrier around your carotts. Apparently the fly can't fly higher than 30 inches above ground level.
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Best way is to put up a 30 inch barrier around your carotts. Apparently the fly can't fly higher than 30 inches above ground level.
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sorry to every one on this thread , just been acosetd by my kids
singh sign sing sonng tommoro
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Interesting thread.
The barrier mentioned by plot690 is the most often quoted method - adult flies are low-flying. Dill, Nigella damascens (Love in a Mist) and French Marigolds are also supposed to deter carroit fly. I've heard that covering your carrot rows with fleece or fly-proof netting helps to stop egg-laying, but I've never tried it.
The oldest and strangest gardening book I've got ("The Gardeners Receipt Book" 1888) doesn't even mention carrot fly or soot, which I find surprising. Tobacco water is prescribed for many things, including black fly. For greenfly on apple and pear trees the remedy is: "One pound of sulphur vivum, one pound Scotch snuff, one pound quicklime, half a pound lamp back, one pound soft soap, and of water sufficient to make it into the consistence of paint. About February, with a common paint brush, paint every branch from the ground upwards"..."One part ammoniacal liquor from the gas works, mixed with five or more parts of water, will also destroy these insects". Try getting most of those ingredients these days!
To be on the safe side, the book also says that these ingredients must be washed off thoroughly when they have done their work.
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Similarly we the amateur are accused of causing 'water shortages' yet it is a known fact that more water is lost through decaying/badly maintained water mains.
Level playing field ??? ??? :P
only in parts of london, here in east anglia we have the lowest leak rates!
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the 30" barrier does NOT work.carrot fly are a weak-flying species, and get blown about by wind, just like leaves and snowflakes, and hence over a 30" barrier. organic farmers fleece entire fields to stop the problem. ;)
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sorry Tee Gee your posts just leave me reelin
what can i say ? only learnin my abc.
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the 30" barrier does NOT work.carrot fly are a weak-flying species, and get blown about by wind, just like leaves and snowflakes, and hence over a 30" barrier. organic farmers fleece entire fields to stop the problem.
I agree Tony!!
My way;
(http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Carrot%20fly/Carrot%20fly%20protection.jpg)
Note the gap in the fleece was staged to let you see the carrots under!
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Soak cut off lengths of hessian sack in creosote and hang them between rows of carrot and onions to keep the carrot and onion fly at bay
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Richard Kinson no thanks i have no intention of poisoning my soil or my plants with such nasty chemicals.
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Planting your carrots in between rows of onions really does keep carrot fly at bay. They still get a few late on in the crop but I find they miss the worst of any attack.
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Humbug to you as well, the great gardener
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I've tried interplanting onions and carrots and it never worked for me ??? ;D ;D ;D
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Interplanting carrots with onions and other alliums seems to work for me, touch wood. Dill is also a deterrent to carrot fly, I'm told.
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I find you need at least 2 rows of onions either side of the carrots for it to really work, but garlic and shallots do the trick as well. Works best for me with early carrots.
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Soak cut off lengths of hessian sack in creosote and hang them between rows of carrot and onions to keep the carrot and onion fly at bay
Thanks for that tip Richard ! I will be trying it . Dont over soak till it drips everywhere,just enough for the dried rags to waft the creosote fragrance about in the breeze right ? ;)
Thanks ! Debs
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After we sow our carrots we wait until they start to show we then thin them out a little not forgetting to press down the soil around the ones that are left and then we cover them completely with a good fleece and leave them to grow.
We don't touch them again until they are ready for harvesting works for us give it a try we have been free from the carrot fly for three years now. hope this helps.
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My neighbour is 82, he's tried the interplanting, only fly so high theories out, he has carrot fly. He previously used a now banned chemical, which worked. The next neighbour hardly has a carrot, I think he interplanted this year. I have no carrot fly. I bought some wondermesh, its like enviromesh. It lasts up to 10 years, my oldest bit has done three seasons its still like new. No carrot fly, no white butterfly, no cabbage fly.
Get the wallet out and spend £20, or £2 a year if you buy a small bit.
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If you can get it soot is a good repellent also for onion fly but as Tee Gee says it needs to be aged. I am lucky that i know a chimney sweep that is glad to get rid of some of his waste soot to me.
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HI can I just tell you about ther carrots that I grew last year on my allotment
I started my first lot off by sowing them in toilet rolls cut in half and planted the whole lot with the tubes put a small plastic barrier around the bed about 15inc high = a very nice bunch of carrots.
a bit later in the year I just put the seed of the carrots straight in to the ground
with the barrier around them but as soon as I thined them out the carrot fly took hold and I lost them all.
well I know what I will be doing this year, still collecting the loo rolls ::)