Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: Borlotti on December 11, 2008, 19:28:26
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Do you think the teacher that told the truth that Father Xmas doesn't exist to 7 year olds, but that Mummy and Daddy brought the presents should have got the sack. She was a supply teacher, so I believe. I think my grandchildren found out as they recognised my writing when I put from Father Xmas on some little presents. I would rather she kept her job for telling the truth and that Haringey Council social services all got the sack.
Please don't be upset ACE if you still believe in Father Xmas. I expect some funny remarks back!!!!
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My two twigged when they were aged 6 and 4 - they recognised the chap dressed up as father xmas dishing out pressies and put two and two together (they're bright sparks). Unfortunately they spilled the beans to my nephew (also aged 6 at the time and was a believer) and there was a bit of a family rift because of this. We've never been allowed to forget it. Apparently it was all my fault for putting left-wing ideas into their little heads! (Don't know where that came from, but it did!)
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I don't suppose many 7 year olds really believe. But hey whats wrong with a bit of magic for those that might have done. Childhoods far too short nowadays.
My grandchildren still believe, so much so, that when I told them that Santa kept all his savings in an Icelandic bank, they looked really sad when they realised that there would not be any presents this year.
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I don't believe in Santa any more...........the Easter Bunny told me it was a myth ;D.
Talking of myths.........thats a female moth innit? ::)
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my kids 3 and 9 still believe i think i stopped believing shortly after my 10Th b/day. my nine year old i think knows its not true but seems at the moment to enjoy believing if you see what i mean.
I don't suppose many 7 year olds really believe. But hey whats wrong with a bit of magic for those that might have done. Childhoods far too short nowadays.
i couldn't agree more.
if a teacher had done this to my daughter i would have been most upset because i know my daughter would have become heart broken over it. i think there are somethings people should really leave to families to sort out or clarify in their own way and time.
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a lad my daughter went to school with the was always told that santa didnt exist because his mum was devastated when she found out and didnt want the same for her children, i have to say they never let on which is admiral
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My kids till believe and they are in their 20's!
NB...I did make it quite clear to them when they were much younger that if they still believed they'd still get a pressie from Santa - as well as the one we would give them! ;D
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I cannot find out what religion this sad person practises. If she was brought up with sand between her toes, she will soon be getting a pay off for being dismissed.
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How out of order is this? >:( I didn't hear of or read this news. Hope the supply teacher now realizes his/her mistake and 'supplies' another (older) age group?
I agree totally with ACE and Thifasmom on this and also experienced the little child who didn't 'believe' but wanted to hang on to the myth for a while.....and why not, for goodness sake?
EH?
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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My grandson was 8 when he asked his mum if Santa was real. Bless her she rang me and was upset to think the magic would be spoilt if she told him the truth.
Like I said to her, if he's old enough to ask the question he is ready for the answer. He could have been plagued by the other schoolkids cruel remarks if he still believed in something they didn't.
Of course its magical and like ACE says.....why not?
I agree TM, it should be a family thing and evolve with our own kids as they grow.
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Shh I'm sure Sam still believes, ;D kids find out as they grow up gradually, they don't need some jumped up arse of an alleged teacher telling them. >:( >:( >:(
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She should have used her common sense but I think sacking is a little harsh. I remember my younger brother asking me if Santa was real, so remembering my mums hatred of lies and constantly having it drummed into me that the truth is always the right thing to do, I rightly told him the truth that no it was all made up! I got a smack and was sent to my room!!! Never did understand the logic of that! :( :o
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I remember when i discovered 'the truth', found all these unwrapped pressies in mums wardrobe, ( can't remember why i looked in there) it was the worst Christmas ever, I had to pretend how surprised I was at the gifts I received, knowing Santa hadn't brought them.............it was never the same after that ......................... :'(
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Strange getting a typo in such a finished piece.
But the truth is spoken!!
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tin can has it right then.
You believe until you're 20
you disbelieve until you're 40
you are Santa until you're 60
then after that you grow to look like Santa.
I like that Tim :)
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Mine believe - 9 and 8, and my sister who is in her 30's still believes a bit, but then she swears to this day she saw him in the flesh in our house!
It is a tough call, we teach them not to lie, to be honest and tell the truth, and then we spin lots of fibs whilst they are little...tooth fairy, easter bunny, Santa. On the other hand, they aren't babies for long, they will be adults for an age, so for me, as long as they are happy to believe and enjoy being children, then I'm afraid, I am happy for the wonderful Father Christmas to continue coming to our house on Christmas Eve.
However.....a little slightly off topic question my daughter asked last year when her school took part in the shoebox appeal where you fill a shoebox with little gifts, like soap, colouring pencils, toothbrushes etc and the boxes are then sent to an orphanage in eastern Europe.....she wondered why Father Christmas didn't look after those children in the same way, aren't all children equal....had they been really really bad. That put me on the spot....so I told her that as parents, we have to send Father Christmas some money each year to put towards the gifts, so those children whose parents are very poor, or those children who perhaps don't have any might get missed out so we give santa a helping hand by filling a box and sending it to these children. Right or wrong answer.....well at the time it was the best I could come up with and they both love to think about the child who is going to open their parcel on Christmas day.
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Childhood is too short, and what's wrong with a bit of mysticism and magic? Childhood used to last until you were 11/12, but nowadays by the age of eight its all over.
I find it very sad.
valmarg
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We don't know what the teacher said or if other children in the class had said there was no Father Xmas. But I have never lied to my granddaughter. When she asks about Father Christmas I just wink at her, and say do you want presents. I am sure she knows that it is Mummy or Nanny. At 7 years, with other children in the class I am sure they know. It is a bit sad if children ask for expensive toys from Santa and poor Mum or Dad can't afford it. I just say Santa can only bring a chocolate orange and a few colouring books not the bike or computer that you really, really want. I suppose it puts parents under pressure if children believe and are disappointed at Christmas. I think it is sweet for very little ones, but once they go to school or have older brothers or sisters they may get laughed at for believing. My son hated Father Christmas, he stuffed his teddy up the fireplace in his bedroom and didn't want some old man coming in the night. He is over 40 now and still sleeps with the light on (only joking). But I will hang my stocking on Christmas Eve but I expect I will disappointed but still remember the lovely rustle of paper on Christmas morning and I never knew it was Mum and Dad until I was about 9 or 10, but children grow up a lot quicker today. If you were a teacher and had been asked a direct question what would you have said. I suppose I would have just said ask Mummy when you get home.
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Thats funny my wife thinks she married him. ;D ;D
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Oh, come off it - I always knew it was my parents! You don't seriously think kids are thick, do you?
But I've been a supply teacher too - you guard your words.
(I don't know what was said either, only what the papers said was said - nothing remotely like the truth!)
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Oh, come off it - I always knew it was my parents! You don't seriously think kids are thick, do you?
But I've been a supply teacher too - you guard your words.
(I don't know what was said either, only what the papers said was said - nothing remotely like the truth!)
I'm with Trevor on this one. I suspected my parents and laid a trap when I was 5 or 6. Okay it was only my slippers but dad fell over them and he was sussed (even if I didn't let on and pretended to be asleep). I'm sorry but I can't subscribe to this myth for children over school age.
G x
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With Trevor and Georgie coming from the north and north/west of London, I expect you have lost it anyway, so we are not really swayed by your remarks.
Santa is real ask my missus, Randy old bugger she reckons.
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Thanks, I will tell my children that they are considered thick. That will make them feel just great. She is neither thick or stupid, but she believes and nobody has the right to take away her childhood, definately not teachers! I think it is a sad household where children can't be children and enjoy a little fantasy. I have to say, I have been insulted by your comments and I find it sad that you are disapointed at Christmas Borlotti - something I have never ever been.
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Well apparently she told the children that 'she believed' he didn't exist and that their parents brought all of the presents. Thing is, that's a little hard for 5-7yr olds to understand, I think. I'm with the majority here, Christmas is a magical time for littluns and that's the way it should stay. Children are pushed into growing up too quickly these days so let them hang on to every little bit they can. My son told me when he was seven that he'd known for a while but didn't want to spoil it for me!! ;D At the end of the day, not really sure it's a teachers place to tell the children anyway? :-\
It's wrong to say that all children are aware there's no Santa - wrong, wrong, wrong. As for insinuating kids aren't as thick as to believe there really is a Santa? Well, that's a pretty ludicrous statement to make in the grand scheme of things ::)
Anyway, I'm not worried, I reckon I've got at least one tick on all of Santa's lists this year, yippeeee.
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Part of the magic of Christmas is Santa.
The joy that Santa gives the kids is wonderful,well worth a few little white lies.
I have yet to meet anybody that has been permanently scarred by believing in Santa.
He does exist anyway,in your heart,so that makes him real .
I have such happy memories of Looking up at the night sky on Christmas eve with my kids.We were hoping we might spot him flying thorough the air,We never did spot him,however we could swear we heard his Christmas bells ringing.Wonderful times,enjoyed by all.
Treat your kids like kids I say,they are not mini adults. :)
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Every Christmas eve we track Santa's progress around the world.
The site is NORAD tracks Santa,sorry can'tget the link.
My Grandkids love it. :)
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Sorry - wrong choice of words and I seem to have caused offence...
grovel, grovel....
What I meant was - children are more sophisticated that we adults sometimes think. They gradually become aware that it's a piece of make-believe - that's part of the joy! As SamLouise's son said, he didn't want to spoil it for her! In the same way, we taken them to the panto and they go along with it and love it, but they also know it's not "real"; but that doesn't get in the way of the fun and the enjoyment.
Christmas is great, Santa is magic! (But I always knew it was my parents and went along with it because it was part of the fun!)
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I figured out that the virgin birth was a fairy tale long before I sussed Santa!
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I have just asked my son when he first realised it was us who left the presents in his stocking- he is 14 1/2. He said he was 12 or 13. He was told by his grand mother when he was 12- he was still not really convinced as we said he was real but last year hubby confirmed it was us. So it is possible for children to still believe in Father Christmas - he is not trying to pretend to believe for my sake as I remember him telling me what his Grand mother said and was obviously a bit unsure and I continued to say he did exist as he was unsure.
Although children at school had said a few times that santa was not real it does not appear to be that often and he did not believe them.
I might add he does not have any brothers or sisters although he has friends who are both older and younger
I do think its is sad for those parents who have children that are told at a young age by other children and then family members then confirm this as Christmas does then loose some of the magic for them.
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the magic goes once you know there isnt a santa, the teacher had no right to tell the children that there wasnt a santa, surely that should be left to their parents. perhaps the teacher should be sacked they shouldnt air their views to children in there care, at the end of the day we all need something to believe in,
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The teacher was right in telling them Santa is a myth but she should have went further and told them the same about god and Jesus and the rest of the crap in the bible.
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santas not a myth a saw him & his riendeers just yesterday
at billingly christmas tree farm south yorks
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When I was a kiddie, Santa didn't come to our house :'(
We had to make do with Father Christmas ;D
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The teacher was right in telling them Santa is a myth but she should have went further and told them the same about god and Jesus and the rest of the crap in the bible.
I'll expect they will make there own minds up on that when they are older. Just like you and me.
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The teacher was right in telling them Santa is a myth but she should have went further and told them the same about god and Jesus and the rest of the crap in the bible.
Go for it! And the crap in the Koran, the Talmud, and the Veda? Or do you stop short of that?
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No every one of them are total crap and lets demolish every church of every description.
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Coming back to the original post, the question about whether the teacher should have been sacked, my answer would be a definite "no". A severe reprimand and a warning.....yes or even extra training.
When I was at Uni ten years ago I had two friends who both stayed on to do a PGCE. One had a First Class Honours and the other a 2/1 Hons. They both failed their teacher's qualifications because they were assessed as not being strict enough yet both are married and have very well behaved children of their own. They were judged by an inspector who sat in for a few hours while they were teaching. Now why weren't they given additional training on discipline rather than be sent away as failures? In my opinion both would have made excellent teachers. When they were undergraduates reading Geography they had their hearts set on teaching but it was never to be.
It costs a lot to train teachers and they are in short supply so let's not get rid of people for one error or because they are seen as being not up to the mark. Ironing out the weaknesses by giving extra training in my view is the most sensible approach.
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P7 she was a teaching assistant not a real teacher. We always knew that diluting the real teachers with wannabees would end up with these sort of things happening.
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P7 she was a teaching assistant not a real teacher. We always knew that diluting the real teachers with wannabees would end up with these sort of things happening.
Diluting and wannabees. >:( i don't think so TA's are just as important as teachers in today's schools.
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ACE, all the reports about this show that she was a "supply teacher" not a "teaching assistant".
Supply teachers are normally qualified teachers who have left (usually due to retirement or to have children) but then apply for supply teaching which gives them an opportunity to work part-time. She could also be a newly qualified teacher who has opted to do supply work until she can find permanent employment.
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What ever she is, the fact remains that in my opinion she is an idiot and think that sacking her is a bit over the top, but a good old fashion stoning wouldn't go a miss. :o ;D ;D ;D
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deleted by asbean
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The article shows real facts of matter.
"Is There a Santa Claus?" was the headline that appeared over an editorial in the September 20, 1897 edition of the New York Sun.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Yes%2CVirginia%2CThereIsASantaClausClipping.jpg)
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When it is put like that, you could not even say it was a lie.
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TGG ,thanks for that.What a lovely post.
I love the last line.To make glad the heart of childhood. :)
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:-\
I live round the corner from the school in question. I have heard lots of locals discussing the event and so far have the following to report:
No children have been seen weeping and wailing in the streets.
A straw poll of 5/6/7 year olds in the area have been questioned and have stated that they "...don't give a **** who gives out the pressies as long as they arrive..."
Parents are split 50/50 about the issue, adults who do not have children are split 50/50 and the rest are at the pub.
There, your on-the-spot reporter has done her work...
;)
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When it is put like that, you could not even say it was a lie.
When it's put like that, I'm speechless ::)
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I am sure that this report has been exaggerated by the papers. I suppose I believe that children should be told the truth and if they ask a specific question, then don't lie, just say some people believe and little children love it and don't spoil the surprise but I don't think you can tell children it is true if they are old enough to question it. I am just glad that I am not a teacher as whatever they say is wrong. I don't suppose she/he meant to send children home in tears but was only trying to answer a question. If a 7 year old asked me the question I could not say Father Xmas existed as a fact, but would say a lot of little children believe and it is a nice idea but it is not real. That is only telling the truth and I suppose I would have been sacked, if I had said he was real I may have also got sacked. I am glad that I am not a teacher.
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;D@ KatyNB
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Borlotti, I think that if a teacher can't field and deflect questions such as this, they're really not much cop. Some 'truths' really don't need to be told in school, particularly (if this report is true) to a class of children probably all with differing ideas. Just my thoughts.
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Too many truths are told to children these days.Normally about things they can not possibly understand.This only leads to anxiety.
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Aww! Santa Claus/Father Christmas Santa Claus/Father Christmas let's call the whole thing off!? ;D ;D
In my not so humble opinion the whole thing exists for parents and grandparents. The kids rarely even get what they actually want! I mean for puppy read doggy pyjama case??????
We always put out a carrot for the reindeer as well as the Bailey's and mince pie for Santa: the kids knew Dad would deal with the last two but couldn't imagine him eating a carrot. :o :o (first husband btw not Peter)
If you don't like teachers telling your child that Santa/FC doesn't exist, how about them getting to tell them all about sex, how to use condoms etc , what all the different drugs are and do ...?
Maybe a bit more important in the long run? And do we really want teachers doing our job as parents?
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I hate the thought of Teachers teaching my grandkids about sex and drugs,I have met some right twits aka teachers
We taught our own kids in our own way,when we felt the time was right.
We told them about birth control,drew the line at telling em how to use condoms,think most young people are capable of working that out for themselves,we did. :)
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The last two posts really summarise my thinking. I most certainly do not want teachers doing my job as a parent and yet my feeling is that increasingly the line is being blurred and crossed.
I am sure that most children over 5 know that FC does not really exist, but we all play the game and how the story is told and maintained is part of a families rituals and customs and it is not for a stranger aka teacher to decide how and when to end that.
There - now I feel better :D
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But it's not your kids that need to be taught about sex and drugs - it's the non-working career doley underclass who need to be taught... and their parents won't be teaching them what anyone on here would be. I went to school with someone who was given pot by his parents and someone else I know got his first ever Heroin from his uncle...
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::)
...not to mention the well heeled parents who give their kids enough money to get themselves senseless on whatever they choose. Let's not beat up the already beaten?!
:-X
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...not to mention the well heeled parents who give their kids enough money to get themselves senseless on whatever they choose. Let's not beat up the already beaten?!
:-X
I agree.
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But it's not your kids that need to be taught about sex and drugs
Sorry Ollie but you're wrong: it is your kids that need to be taught about sex and drugs. They will be taught about it at school - my point is that I would rather do that as a parent.
Having said that I think my age 25+ kids have all had their sex and drugs experiments having been given info by me and school. But they are more or less balanced now!
I am a bit concerned that schools are being given the responsibility for ethical areas that formerly were the responsibility of the family however given the nature of today's society it does perhaps provide a safety net.
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Thanks for the update Katy, will you be going live on Christmas Day. ;D ;D ;D
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Well, Kev, it depends on what other assignments are given to me at the festive hour. Obviously, us at KatyNews.com are available to cover any important news story!
Suggestions for outstandingly important stories will be considered...over to you?
;)
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Is the storey true that three wise men have been seen travelling through Oldham. :o :-\ ;D ;D ;D
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KatyNews.com will consider any serious story. Come back with something the public will believe?
;)
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:o
Stop Press! Hang on...three aged gentlemen have been seen hitching on Broadway. Witnesses said they had small bottles of aromatherapy oil and were heading in an easterly direction...
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Is there any connection between the 3 men and the bright light thats been seen over Oldhams football ground. ??? :-\ ;D ;D ;D
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???
The light is just the usual stellar activity caused by being the ground which is highest above sea level, or maybe it's the fact that the team achieved a draw recently?
Your Ace Reporter is on the case...
8)
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I'm hearing reportst that its the floodlights coming on, but other reports that there is a bright star like shape across town. ;D ;D ;D
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Ace Reporter can exclusively reveal that it's not floodlights, just the routine burning of a car on one of the local estates.
It is a little known fact that Oldham has many festivals throughout the year, this week it is Petrolicus Day, a celebration of all things Clarkson.
;)
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Broadway is in Oldham????
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Tsk, well known fact that the U S of A pinched it from the home of cotton in the late 1900's.
Along with Holland stealing a certain kind of wooden footwear and the fashion for headscarves in the 1960's. Women of a certain age still speak of a time when one walked out on a saturday afternoon with a scarf tied over the rollers. It proved that one had somewhere to go later that night!
8)
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Nice to see the women of Oldham keeping up the tradition of the head scarves even if they tend to cover up more of the face nowdays. :o ;D ;D ;D
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:-\
Yep, it's a tradition enjoyed by all members of our multicultural population. The guys find it a bit restricting though...
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So, a Serious Question for our Ace Reporter who shoorly knows everything...has Santa got an older brother...one with arthritis praps who needs warmer climes ? Cos I know that the Real Santa's in the Frozen North but I've been getting prezzies with his name on them from the Amazon.. ::) ;D
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FOR GOODNESS SAKE! It is a little known fact that Cliff Claus exists. Please do not advertise it. He has a franchise with The Amazon and has subcontracted logistics to them. He sussed early on that his bro would struggle with a "just on time" response, so thought it was time to get some 21st century thinking into it.
Maybe this should be moved to The Watershed so that younger eyes are not distressed?!