Allotments 4 All
Produce => Kept Animals => Topic started by: chloe55 on November 12, 2008, 22:34:00
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Wanting to get some egg laying chickens for my garden - I am in the process of converting my shed (It is a rather long walk in shed and I have chicken wired off a section 6ft by 2ft) Have been reading up on chickens and there seems to be so many breeds. Does anybody know which is the 'best', let me rephrase that, most successfully egg laying hens to go for? Also, credit crunch is hitting us hard so need to keep costs down to a minimum. Thanks.
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Have you considered getting some ex battery hens ? :)
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I have looked into it and I am keen it's my husband who isn't! I think his main worry is vets bills and the fact they won't have much of an egg laying life left. I see his point but would be happy to give these poor chickens a pleasant retirement, I have read that you can mix them with free range chickens - what is peoples opinions on this? Can they all thrive together or do the exbats end up getting bullied and worn down?
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I have 6 Black Rocks and 6 White Leghorns. Both are supposed to produce in excess of 300 eggs per year for excess of 5 years. The Black Rocks produce nowhere near this so I was disappointed. The White Leghorns lay 5-6 large white eggs daily without fail, unless they are moulting.
Apparently, a recent newer breed into the game is the ISA Brown. This is a prolific layer for egg production, laying a decent size brown egg. 3 people on my site purchased 80 between them last year and all say they are the best egg layers they have ever had. My lottie neighbour says he gets no less than 18 good sized eggs from his 20 ISA Browns. If my Black Rocks do not pick up on their egg laying they will be getting replaced sooner than they think...... ::)
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If you are wanting eggs for the table and ths pleasure of seeing a few fowl strut about I would go for point of lay Warren hybrids. I believe these are the cheapest of the hybrids..You will then know what age your birds are and get all the eggs they are going to lay..Also they are usually quiet laid back birds that socialise well .
The trouble with buying cheap fowl is usually the person selling them has a reason to sell them I.E they are coming to the end of their useful life as laying birds.
As for ex battery hens I admire the sentiment and the folks that get them but the farmer has had the best out of em, you are probably going to get a few probs with these too ..
At the end of the day with the price of hen food at the moment, a non laying bird eats as much as a good laying one ..
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Thanks for your replies. I will definitely take what's been said on board. I think I will go for point of lay birds, at then end of the day my main reason for getting them is to try and cut dairy costs (shame I can't get a cow ;D). I know what you mean about cheap not necessarily paying off, I will try and choose wisely.
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when we got our ex bats, we were getting 16 to 17 eggs per day from 18 chickens, they've now slowed down to 8 or 9 per day, from the battery hen welfare trust, we paid 1.00 per bird, bargain ;D
they give you the best of the bunch, too :)
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We went for the ones Omlet sell - because we wanted maximum yield & friendliness. I'd prefer to have ex batts, or something intersting like the Chilean ones that lay blue or green eggs - but we wanted lots of eggs from limited space.
Omlet's ones are Rhode Island Reds crossed with something else. We're delighted so far, but no sodding eggs >:(
I still maintain that random chance & how you care for them have a bigger influence on a bird's behaviour than it's breed... Are all Alsatians mental? No, temperament & nurture play a huge part... Same with chooks!
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We went for the ones Omlet sell - because we wanted maximum yield & friendliness. I'd prefer to have ex batts, or something intersting like the Chilean ones that lay blue or green eggs - but we wanted lots of eggs from limited space.
Omlet's ones are Rhode Island Reds crossed with something else. We're delighted so far, but no sodding eggs >:(
I still maintain that random chance & how you care for them have a bigger influence on a bird's behaviour than it's breed... Are all Alsatians mental? No, temperament & nurture play a huge part... Same with chooks!
We are very much small scale only have 4 birds.
2 Black Rocks and 2 Wellsummers. We are getting 2 more on Saturday although not sure what breed they are, i know they are Hybrid birds though. They are all point of lay birds.
the black rocks lay 2 eggs every day. The wellsummers are in molt at the moment so not laying a thing. When they do lay we average 1 a day from the pair. I swear they are taking it in turns. LOL. The wellsummers are lovely big dark brown eggs, the black rocks are what you would expect.
On a different note. the black rocks are very friendly and will follow me about. The wellsummers are very snooty and only come to you if you got food. I read that hybrid birds are more friendly than pure breed chickens. Dont know how true this is, but it is our case.
From my very limitied knowledge/experience i would strongly recommend getting them from a reputable dealer. It was important to us to see where they were bred.
best of luck.
F.
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Ollie C wrote "
I still maintain that random chance & how you care for them have a bigger
influence on a bird's behaviour than it's breed... Are all Alsatians mental? No, temperament & nurture play a huge part... Same with chooks!"
I normally wouldn't comment but when I see such a statement made with such authority to a genuine question >:(
Certain breeds have different temperaments and maintain these no matter how you nurture them ..
Lets take the two pure bred chickens mentioned in this thread as an example..
Kt's White leghorns , Leghorns are a light framed hen they lay big eggs for their size, they come into lay maybe a month before a heavier breed and lay More eggs in a season than most larger breeds.
But you wouldn't want leghorns in your garden they are really noisy chickens they spook fairly easily and once one sets off making a racket the others will follow . Another thing is with leghorns they can fly like pigeons so unless you clip one of their wings after every moult or have a covered run you Will be fetching them back from surrounding properties .
Now lets take Flunkies Wellsummer birds...These have alot of game feathering the chicks resemble game birds when born. They are nice looking birds.
The classic fowl, most adverts that you see depicting a cockerel will be a wellsummer one.
These are a dual purpose breed they don't lay as many eggs in a year as the utility breeds, they seem aloof in attitude , Flunky has got it in one they are snooty, they look good and know they look good :)
As for your rhode island cross here is another dual purpose bird and no matter how you nurture them they could be 26 to 30 weeks old before they lay ..
So in Fowl blood will out ...
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Ollie C wrote "
I still maintain that random chance & how you care for them have a bigger
influence on a bird's behaviour than it's breed... Are all Alsatians mental? No, temperament & nurture play a huge part... Same with chooks!"
I normally wouldn't comment but when I see such a statement made with such authority to a genuine question >:(
Certain breeds have different temperaments and maintain these no matter how you nurture them ..
Lets take the two pure bred chickens mentioned in this thread as an example..
Kt's White leghorns , Leghorns are a light framed hen they lay big eggs for their size, they come into lay maybe a month before a heavier breed and lay More eggs in a season than most larger breeds.
But you wouldn't want leghorns in your garden they are really noisy chickens they spook fairly easily and once one sets off making a racket the others will follow . Another thing is with leghorns they can fly like pigeons so unless you clip one of their wings after every moult or have a covered run you Will be fetching them back from surrounding properties .
Now lets take Flunkies Wellsummer birds...These have alot of game feathering the chicks resemble game birds when born. They are nice looking birds.
The classic fowl, most adverts that you see depicting a cockerel will be a wellsummer one.
These are a dual purpose breed they don't lay as many eggs in a year as the utility breeds, they seem aloof in attitude , Flunky has got it in one they are snooty, they look good and know they look good :)
As for your rhode island cross here is another dual purpose bird and no matter how you nurture them they could be 26 to 30 weeks old before they lay ..
So in Fowl blood will out ...
Ah, of course... but all I'm saying is that they're not like buying a car. I grew up with many different chickens, ducks & geese, and within any given breed there was a huge range of characteristics. We had 10 RIR's for a while, and some would be desperate to be your buddy, others were really shy. I'm afraid I don't know all the breeds we had, but what I remember is that they were all individuals & saying that any given breed will have a certain nature is nonsense... That's all! There's a risk of doing too much reading & forgetting about the huge element of chance.
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I like the idea of chickens that know they are good looking ;D
I am particularly interested in this thread as I will be preparing for my chickens
this winter.
I have already decided that I will have some rescue Birds as this will make me happy ,knowing I have helped give some a better life,however I really do not know what breed to get re my other chickens.
The tip about Leghorns being very noisy and easily spooked is very helpful to me as I Will be having mine on the allotment and I do not want to upset anyone.Re noise.
Reading as much as I can as I am a novice. :)
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Flunky has got it in one they are snooty, they look good and know they look good :)
They dont at the moment, both molting, looking very sorry themselves, Queenie lost her tail feathers. starting to grow again now, she was not a happy hen !!
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I have KEPT and BRED fowl for over 30 years ..At the moment I keep about 30 on the allotment these range from Speckledy hybrids, Welsummers,Marans and few bantie crosses I keep as broodies..I also usually run a few turkeys and hybridised capons for christmas..
As for inferences about reading about them, If you read my avatar you wil see I advocate Practice beats theory. I wouldn,t answer a genuine question on here if I didn't think I knew what I was on about.There are too many google experts on this internet already..But on the other hand I am not so egoistic as to think I know every thing and couldn't learn anything else on the subject .
As a matter of interest why do some deem it neccessary to repost the original post of a person in full ?. Do they think it validates their answer somewhat..
I was not saying chickens are clones of one another you wil get individuals in every thing..
But what I am saying and do maintain is that breeds of fowl will follow characterisitics that will come out never mind how you treat them .
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I agree you can not beat experience.
It is good to read about a subject though.I want to prepare myself as much as I can for the chickens welfare.
In your experience,do you think a novice like me should just start off with a small number until some experience has been gained.I was thinking about six.
Also what bird would be best re noise etc for the allotment.
There is only two of us,so I do not need a huge number of eggs.It would be nice to give some to family though.
Thanks :)
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Oh, I have absolutely no doubt that you know far more than me about keeping 'em... & am trying not to smile at the thought of me intentionally paying you a lack of respect! I wouldn't do that to such a fowl person! (joke!!!)... plus you seem a decent chap & I try not to be rude to anyone I like.
Just pointing out that keeping chickens isn't an exact science & if you look on many of the forums (Omlet being a great example), it's full of people repeating the same thing that they learnt from someone else on there... You end up with "truth" being whatever is shouted the loudest & most often & it's often complete tosh...
You must have seen people who kept the same breed as you but in a different way & they end up with a completely different nature. And you must also have had birds treated the same way that didn't behave like the books said! If not then that's very interesting, and somewhat surprising.
Out of interest, I thought mine were hybrids bred for egg production, not dual purpose (that's what Omlet claim). And I realise that to many purists they're not very interesting chickens... but they are very practical, supposedly.
And why do some people post the whole thing? In my case, it's because my reply to your post was to the whole thing, not just one little bit...
Please don't think I was being intentionally direspectful, growmore!
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I would love to keep hens. They're beautiful creatures apart from their obvious utility. I love the grey and black and white speckly ones and the big brown ones with green and red bits, bottoms stuck towards the sky, pecking away with eagle eye and clucking comfortingly the while.
Don't think i could face cleaning out the henhouse though - I had enough problems with the budgie's cage many many years ago and I must confess to heaving a sigh of relief when my children's many hamsters, guinea pigs and rabbits passed away. So perhaps just a rural idyll for me. But who knows, perhaps when I retire. ;)
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I know what you mean re cleaning.Think I will be OK about that.Chicken droppings has advantages on the allotment.
A big worry to me is chicken mite,red mite.
I really want to get an eglu as it is made of plastic.Such a lot of people have said it would not be suitable for an allotment,confused now. :-\
Nearly bought one the other day on eBay.Buy it now.Good price.The time it took me to walk in the lounge and check with Jim that he was OK about the money and walk back to the computer it had gone. ::)
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Betula - Omlet post most Eglu's for sale on e-bay on their own forum, which creates lots of interest. A cynic would say this is to keep the second hand price up, and I have to say it worked for me. If you do the sums, it's £400 to get set up with an Eglu & 3 birds & some food & a quick demo on clipping wings, and after a year you could sell it for £300 assuming it was a disaster. That's £2 a week lost - not bad & cheaper than most wooden ones if you give up or decide to get more.
Having said this, if we had more space or were breeding, it would be pretty pointless.
I have to say, so far we're really pleased with ours - the cleaning is so easy with the slide-out tray & there are much less hiding places for nasties.
Also, did you know if you call them they sell refurbished ones for a bit less, and without the run for £100 less. I didn't until after I bough it!
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Thanks Ollie :)
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Hi Betula,
I wouldn't put an Eglu on an allotments... it'll be gone in no time and then straight onto ebay by said theiving oik.
Worries aside I'd personally go for a Maran hybrid, I started with three of these (a Bluebelle, Speckledy and a Maran Cuivree) and they've laid an egg each pretty much every day. This winter is their second winter though and two are moulting so not so many eggs. They're quite friendly and not too skittish so maybe good for a starter. If you want pretty looking birds I'd recommend Barnevelders & Buff Sussex.
However they're addictive so be prepared to add more when the bug takes hold.
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I have found 5 warrens for £15 for the lot, fairly local to me. However, they are 12/18mth old, the guy tells me they are still laying well. Do you reckon this is a good investment - my husband is worried we won't get much from them and then be stuck with hens that don't produce (not that I'm that bothered but he wants to get something out of them!)
Also, how much would you reckon it would cost for the upkeep of 5 birds? Including shavings, hay (I don't have grass), food etc?
Thanks for all your replies so far :)
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Hi Betula,
I wouldn't put an Eglu on an allotments... it'll be gone in no time and then straight onto ebay by said theiving oik.
Worries aside I'd personally go for a Maran hybrid, I started with three of these (a Bluebelle, Speckledy and a Maran Cuivree) and they've laid an egg each pretty much every day. This winter is their second winter though and two are moulting so not so many eggs. They're quite friendly and not too skittish so maybe good for a starter. If you want pretty looking birds I'd recommend Barnevelders & Buff Sussex.
However they're addictive so be prepared to add more when the bug takes hold.
Thanks for that Jon :)
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we get a bag of pellets, probably does our birds (17) for a month, costs us 7.70..plus, cooked scraps, weeds, slugs and snails..a bag of mixed corn, 8.25, they only get a couple of handfuls per day..we're still getting 9 to 10 eggs per day so they definitely pay for themselves ;D
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I had no experience of hens and just wanted some free range eggs for my family !
I got 4 Warren hybrids (i think!) from a friend who knew a 'farmer' who was getting about 50 point of lay, he charged me £4 each !
I waited 2 weeks for them to lay as they were quite young, and have had 4 eggs every day since, well very occasionally i get 3 ! I have had them since June this year and must say that the red mite was a bit of a pain but we got there in the end ! ( I prob only needed 2 hens tho in hindsight!) I end up giving loads of eggs away !
The cleaning is quite easy really , I go down the garden every morning to let them out, put on my rubber gloves (which are left in the shed) clear the newspaper from the coup floor and put in the compost bin, renew the paper and change the nest box shredded paper when necessary ! Give them fresh water and fill the feeder with layers pellets, ( I also give any leftovers from the night befores dinner which they love!)
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I forgot to add that hybrids should be less inclined to go broody which can be a nuisance (unless you want her to hatch some fertile eggs).
I say should as one of mine welded herself to the nestbox last summer and had to be 'broken' out of it in a seperate part of the run.
Have you been to the Practical Poultry forums, there's loads of good info there.
Jon
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i like mine hot and spicy ;D
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Right, think I have decided to get some younger chucks! Just spoken to a joiner friend who is looking into making me a nest box for my shed and hopefully will have my hens in a couple of weeks. All your comments have been extremely useful. My husband is sick of the chicken talk now and has gone from not keen on getting them to ''will you just get them bloody chickens, that way I might get you back in my life and off the internet finding out about them!" Hee hee, little does he know it will probably only get worse!! ;D
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dint get them yet if you wont young birds wait till spring ;D
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Good luck chloe,Let us know how you get on :)
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Definitely ISA Warrens. Bought ours from local commercial chicken farm in excellent condition as point of lay/ £5 each seems a good average price. Real quite, don't hassle the neighbours, very easy to handle and outstanding layers.