Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: posie on November 09, 2008, 10:28:54
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Well given the numerous issues (disasters at the time lol) I've had over the last year, I've decided to start afresh this year with a brand new plan. I've rotated the crops from last years plan and have put all the spuds at the bottom as this seems to be the place with the absolute worst soil that doesn't seem to have been worked as much. Rather than hijack the other planting spaces topics, I thought I'd post my plan in here to see if anyone can give some advice on the spacing I've used. I'm sure I could probably squeeze some more stuff in here somewhere! The main workable area of plot is 20ft by 50ft, hence all the weeny numbers across the top and down sides. ;D Any suggestions would be most welcome.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/posiepain/Picture1.jpg)
Hope you can see it because I can't get it any larger!
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Posie if you post a link to the pic where it saved we might be able to open it up bigger.
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There is nothing wrong with your arrangement it will work but here is a thought for you;
I counted 18 rows meaning; laid out this way you have effectively lost around a third of your planting area to access paths / footways between your rows
Now if you were to set your beds say at 1.5m (5ft) wide with a .5 m (18") path between you would get roughly 8 beds, each of which can either be treated as one whole bed or sub-divided in three areas per bed giving you up to twenty four beds.
The other good thing about this system is; it makes it easier for 'catch crops' i.e. as one crop comes out their is space for another this might not be as easy on the strip system due to what the adjacent crop is i.e. it might shade/bury your new crop.
Another good thing is you have less digging each year i.e. you don't have to dig the 'path' areas whereas with your layout you would, only to walk on it the following year.
I am not necessarily advocating that you do it my way but over the years I have tried laying out my plot in different ways and I find this way is best for me.
Have a look at this ;http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Slide%20Shows/My%20Allotments/allotments%20%20ss.html (http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Slide%20Shows/My%20Allotments/allotments%20%20ss.html)
I leave these thoughts with you.
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Posie if you post a link to the pic where it saved we might be able to open it up bigger.
Good thinking batman!
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/posiepain/Picture1.jpg
Teegee, I've taken the paths out of this plan as I tried paths last year and found I lost too much space with it. Basically where I've put for instance main crop spuds I plan to leave just enough space to get in with my feet and a spade rather than set paths. Hope that makes sense!
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A good season there Tee Gee. :)
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As some of you may know I am sorting out on my website ready for future seasons and as a result I broke the above link.
Sorry about that, the link showing the revised pictures are at ; http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Allotment/allotment.html
Note; that is my plot with the white strip on it (fleece) I also work the one below it.
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I have simple question does x 2 mean 2 rows
also what spacing method with you using for distance between plants
my a rough calculation You should produce more then enough food for 4-6 people for one year
In some cases even more so.
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Hi Posie,
Thought you might like to see how I plan my layouts on a spread sheet;
One column=One bed
One row =one row of a variety/genus
http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Planners/Plot%20layout.htm (http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Planners/Plot%20layout.htm)
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tee gee rather crude lay out but what could be expected from you.
Posie if would like I will redo you plan for you so your space is better
organized.
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tee gee rather crude lay out but what could be expected from you.
sorry but there's no need for that :(
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tee gee rather crude lay out
Perhaps so but it works!! and that's all that matters for me.
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Tee Gee ignore what was a crass remark, the guy is such a moron!
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Manic well said!
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Tee Gee hope you don't mind me asking but what size of plots do you have. They look huge. Looking at your planting plan there's no way I could plant that amount on my 2 plots. As we have so many plots up for rent again this year with no takers I've ask my allotments officer about a vacant plot next door to my existing ones to make into a mini orchard. But looking at the amount of space on your plots I might even ask for a 4th if there going spare. I think this may help with crop rotation as well.Taurus
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Looking at your planting plan there's no way I could plant that amount on my 2 plots.
Don't see any reason why not Taurus I only have two plots like you.
You can see an aerial picture here; http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Allotment/allotment.html (http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Allotment/allotment.html)
That is my top plot with the white strip on it (fleece) and the one below it is my other.
The plots are both roughly 60' x 30' in size which I understand to be pretty much a standard size.( 10 rods)
Regarding the chart I posted above this might be confusing you so let me explain it;
Well firstly it is only a sample layout that I use when discussing 'layouts' on forums such as A4A but it is pretty close to the real thing.
This is a copy of this years layout;
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd27/tgalmanac/Allotment/P1070912.jpg)
Each column is a bed and the only relationship this chart has with size is the sizes written on the top line.
From experience I know that I can get 20-25 rows of plants set across each bed the exact number is dependent on what I am growing.
So you can see that on the first bed I planted out;
20 Chevalier Calabrese
20 Marathon Calabrese
16 Bellstar Broccolli
12 Candid Charm Cauli
20 Snow Prince Cauli
4 Regency Cabbage
= 92 Plants in ONE bed
Just another point;
Initially when I plan my layout I don't number the varieties simply because I don't know at that time what my 'germination' rate per variety will be so I fill in the varieties when I know how many of each plant I have.
So in the above exercise I would have planned for around 10-12 rows of Calabrese / Broccoli and around 10 rows of Cauli.
The same principle applies to my potato varieties e.g sometimes the 'seed are large and you get less tubers per pound and conversely if they are small I get more.
So my plans are just 'plans' and not facts until planting out time so this is why I use the type of chart I do. e.g. when I come to plant out out I just erase the line/s that don't apply, and write in what I do plant.
So all I have in my pocket at planting out time is an A4 sheet of paper with my initial plan on it, then when I am done I make any adjustments necessary to the 'master plan' on my computer which remains there for future use and comparisons.
In particular it helps with my 'rotation' plan.
I hope that answers your question.
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may be I should post my plan for my veg garden layout and My revisions for posie's plot.
I think I will Sunday.
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I have simple question does x 2 mean 2 rows
also what spacing method with you using for distance between plants
my a rough calculation You should produce more then enough food for 4-6 people for one year
In some cases even more so.
Yes it is 2 rows - sorry I've only just caught up with this post. As for spacing, that's the bit I get mixed up with so was planning on a foot between plants but I suspect that may be too much for some and not enough for others.
TeeGee thanks for that link, I'll take a closer look at it later.
Thegreatgardener - any suggestions are most welcome, but I'd be far more appreciative of it if you'd refrain from making personal attacks on people who have offered their advice - it does have the tendency of detracting from what may well be valuable advice from both yourself and other members. I look forward to hearing your ideas.
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Posie few questions
1. will you planting over time and succession planting?
2 how many carrot per row or how far apart in your plan
3 how many potatoes per row
4.what spacing did use for leeks
5 are straw berries in mixed or separate
6 are lock set on how the plant are grouped?
So far my redo of you plot has 100 square foot to spare.
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TG - your patience & acumen are immense!
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You took the words right out of my mouth. ;D ;D ;D
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Posie few questions
1. will you planting over time and succession planting?
2 how many carrot per row or how far apart in your plan
3 how many potatoes per row
4.what spacing did use for leeks
5 are straw berries in mixed or separate
6 are lock set on how the plant are grouped?
So far my redo of you plot has 100 square foot to spare.
1. I am planning on succession planting
2. I didn't manage to grow 1 carrot last year as for how many, as many as I can get in!
3. As the plot is 20ft across, I would guess 20 per row allowing 1 foot spacing? We eat a lot of spuds!
4. See carrots!
5. The bed for strawberries will also contain rhubarb, will only be 1 variety of strawberries I think.
6. Not sure what you mean - as I said I'm open to any/all suggestions.
Thanks for your input.
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posie few more questions
1. do the veg have be group as listed in your chart
2. In your diagram are stawberries mixed planted with the rhubarb or separate.
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Tee Gee, many thanks for your help. Will measure my lotti and see how it compares. Have printed off your layout as I found it nice and easy to understand and it will give me something to go by.
We seem to buck the trend in Swindon to the rest of the country. We don't seem able to rent the plots out and have already lost some sites to builders over the last 2 years. Its very hard work as we seem to be on pure clay here.
My best crops this year were all grown in raised beds and will be making more this Winter, ready for the spring, Many thanks for all the great advice. Taurus
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posie few more questions
1. do the veg have be group as listed in your chart
2. In your diagram are stawberries mixed planted with the rhubarb or separate.
1. No, not at all. I've just used this from the template from last growing season, i.e. just rotated it to shift the brassicas in case of club root.
2. Rhubarb and strawberries are mixed together, not really bothered where they go to be honest.
One thing I would like is some room to companion plant where possible.
Thanks again.
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Thanks for posting that plan Tee Gee it is really helpfull ;D.
As this is my first year I was just going to plant in groups and then start working out rotation next year when I knew how much space I would need for each crop (about! I know we all eat different things ;)) as I am still trying to work out when an wear should sow things. Not to mention manure and lime an such :-[
But as you have put on a nice basic plan I now feel maby I may be able to have a propper plan as I have a starting point ;D
Could you at all possible post another plan or direckt me to one on your web site for a second plot as I have two 10 pole plots to work out my crop rotation for. it would be much appreciated as I cannot see the plan very well on the photograph (and I need some thing more basic :-[)
sorry for hi jacking your thread posie.
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Not hijacking at all - it's all relevant to the topic at the end of the day! ;D
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And while you're at it Tee Gee ;), could you possibly explain how you arrive at your plant spacings please? For instance, you get 92 brassicas in a bed 1.5m x 8.95m? I usually plant just a little closer than the packet recommends, for brassicas 45cm x 45cm to 75cm x 75cm. How close are you planting? I need to get more out of my space but how close can you go before yield is affected?
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Could you at all possible post another plan or direckt me to one on your web site for a second plot
Both plots are actually on that A4 page..........look on top line for division.
How close are you planting?
As you can see my beds are 1.5m wide and I put in 4 brassica plants thus;
150mm x 400 x 400 x 400 x 150mm and roughly 400mm between rows.
If you both send me your e-mails I will send you a copy / attachment of my 2008 draft plan, i.e. the one I do before I fill in the varieties. Then you can put your own varieties in as necessary.
Because the bed sizes and the number of rows & plants are on it you should be able to work out my spacings from these.
BTW I don't bother measuring as much as I once did.
Basically all I do is; if I plan on putting twenty rows of something in a bed, I get twenty canes and set them out roughly at the same spacings until I fill the bed.
OK I might have to move them an inch so this way and that but in the end I get them all in.
You could be more scientific and physcally measure them out.
A useful measure I have is; my boot is 12" long and my rake head is 14" wide so with these two measuring instruments I get by.
The way I look at it is......I don't think the plants mind if its neighbour is an inch or two closer than it should be ::)
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The thing I've learnt over the four years I've been growing is that everyones spacing is different, I plant closer because I like to harvest when the brassicas are a bit smaller than perfect, I take out the caulis when their small because I think they taste better, but everyone to their own. ;D ;D ;D
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I do similar CK, plant close and pull every alternate one while they are small, so the ones left can grow bigger, if they get chance, before I harvest them ;D
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that's the way we do it, too star..plus we do staggered spacing so's we get more in ;D
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that's the way we do it, too star..plus we do staggered spacing so's we get more in ;D
ditto
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and me
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Thanks for the email Teegee - very informative.
Thegreatgardener - Have you had a chance to look at anything please, looking forward to any ideas you can offer :)
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posie I am working on it but have been sick with cold last few days.
Do have one more question for you. Would you like me to include harvest estimates for each bed.
Do happen to know what varieties you to plant.
Will you be using side retained raise beds, sloped raised beds, and how wide would like the paths.
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As I thought Tee Gee 1 plot 60 x 19 and 2nd 60 x 18 feet. The new plot I've just taken on is the full 60x30. Complete with apple tree( in need of a good pruning any advice please) Some goosebury bushes. And a compost heap the size of everest.
Should help with the waist line sorting that out. Hopefully there should be some good stuff underneath the top layer. The council have put in 2 new water tanks and are in the process of repairing the track. There also going to remeasure all plots, mark with posts and rotovate to attract new people. Only 40% of plots in use. If you're in Swindon and want a plot ring Emma (allotments officer)
Off to work now, complete with A4 pad and pencil to work out plan in lunch hour.
Have a good day folks.Taurus
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posie I am working on it but have been sick with cold last few days.
Do have one more question for you. Would you like me to include harvest estimates for each bed.
Do happen to know what varieties you to plant.
Will you be using side retained raise beds, sloped raised beds, and how wide would like the paths.
Hope you feel better soon. Harvest estimates would be great if you have the time and the inclination! Varieties I'll have to check on, need to go through the shoe boxes! so I'll get back to you on that one. Have abandoned idea of raised beds now as I think I've sorted the drainage issues and don't want paths too wide as I lost a lot of space with them last year and have now dug them all up! I'll leave that one to your expertise if you don't mind lol ;D
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mmmmmmmm