Allotments 4 All
Produce => Kept Animals => Topic started by: betula on August 20, 2008, 08:32:46
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The rules on our allotment say no chickens.
As we are in a rural area I can not understand the reason for this.
I have written to our parish clerk asking her to ask the parish council if they would kindly consider changing the rule.
Anybody know if they have the power to change the rules?I think they must have.
Wish me luck.I really want to keep chickens. :)
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Hiya Betula
Good for you girl! The Allotment Act rules originally were all to include chickens and rabbits and it is only local Councils that have changed their rules!
I reckon you should be able to swing it! With all the good publicity re the Hugh Fearnely Whittingstalls and Jamie Olivers I am sure that this will be beneficial. Is there a reason why they are not allowed. It may be one made many years ago when they also had cockerels and a parish councillor may have lived within earshot!
Good luck - If you need any backing assistance - you know where to find me!
Ann
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Thanks Ann,
I suppose the next thing will be them giving me the reasons why not.
I will then have to put up a good case for chickens.
Hope you got your problems with the chicks sorted out,there was a long thread about it a while back. :)
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Rules can be changed its just a case of them taking a vote?
but you have to make a good case( like if you got other lottie holders interested in having poultry the more the better) they will take a closer look at it.
Be prepared for questions like how secure is the housing and runs going to be. Preventing rats and mice never mind foxes.
How secure is the fence around the lottie vandles can cause problems.
Show them you know how:
much food and water they need daily,
how often they need cleaning
lice and mites treatment,
where the local vet is and that they know about hens ( if your lucky)
this may impress them if you know what your talking about.
impress them by saying you want to feed your family frest eggs as well as fresh fruit and vedge. Not the supermarket forced feed hen eggs.
this site is good for hens but do check out pekinbantum.com they have lots of info as well on sickness and health care.
Show them you have looked into this in depth and its not just a fashionable thing to do.
I wish you luck with your council, if they say no, put it to them again in writing if you have other lotties around with hens go and talk to them.
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Thanks for the advice,yes I have been thinking about this for a long time
so it is not just a whim.
I have been reading about it and I do not see any reason why It can't be done.
Hope the council will give support.
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here is the link
http://www.pekinbantams.com/mites.asp
dont be put off by reading its for pure breeds fowl is fowl when it comes to illness.
You may come across someone on committee who know's about poultry the more you know will impress them.
Sad but true, yes some start on a whim but find out hens are additive and so much fun, then panic when they are sick.
Many vets know nothing about poultry so it pays to read up. Saves a lot of money (vets) and you getting upset. I say this from experence.
I hope you have a nice understanding council let us know how you get on fingers crossed.
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he Allotment Act 1950 includes the allowance of certain forms of livestock (hens and rabbits) to be kept although this can be, in some cases, restricted by local by-laws.
A council may have local rules to specify that no livestock or hens are allowed. However, these local regulations must adhere to the Allotment Act(s) and those regulations that do not comply are not in force until confirmed by a local by-law.
Cockerels are not allowed by the Allotment Act.
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It is written into the deeds in some domestic premises that 'poultry' can not be kept on the land.
I have checked this with the council who tell me that it would be a civil matter and not an environmental health one.
Allotments, being left unattended more than a house, does incur the security problems already mentioned.
There is an organisation who rescues chickens from battery farms and sells them in batches of 3 or up to 20 at £1 each. They still lay but not enough to make them viable to the battery farmers, you may get 3 or more eggs a week instead of one a day.
The idea is to give the girls a bit of a natural life after all that hard work.
They charge £1 a chicken.
The reason I mention this is two fold :-
1. You could sway council members who are against battery farming.
2. If you just take three for £3 and you end up having to make soup, you haven't lost much.
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What's in the deeds won't necessarily be upheld by a court; it depends whether it's reasonable. I once lived in a cottage in Cornwall which was built by a local mine-owner in the 1840's, and eventually sold. In the deeds, it specified that washing couldn't be put out in the front garden (which was overlooked by his house) and veg couldn't be grown there. Try enforcing that!
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Our site allows a maximum of 20% plots to have hens. These are designated plots. Plotholders who want hens have to swap to a designated plot when one becomes available. Find out how many other plot holders would have hens if allowed.
You may also find that if they change the rules for you, some sites only allow one shed and your cree could become the one, therefore you may have to relinquish your storage shed to compromise. (Put a partition inside if this happens) Our site is well managed and open to negotiation within reason. Hopefully your owners will be with you.
Suggestions to change the minds:
1. No cockerels.
2. Maximum number of livestock per plot (6 for example)
3. Decide on a maximum size for any henhouse.
4. Decide on the maximum percentage per plot to be allowed for the cree.
You will need to sign a new contract with new terms reflecting the amendments, but should be well worth it. All the above could be written into the contract.
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Thanks for all the info and support.I have decided to write a letter to the parish council alongside my request.
I have not really allowed myself to think about what type of hen as it is just daydreams at the moment.I am keen to know more about rare breeds but will probally go for ex battery as I like the idea of giving them a better life. :)
Fingers crossed :)
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They met on the 18th.Mailed the clerk to see what has happened but no reply yet. :)
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Never ask permission.
Always offer an apology.
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;D
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Ring them Denise!!
I have not got the patience to wait for these answers. They should have told you by now! Ring and let us know!!!!
Ann
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OK,I rang.
They are looking into it.Clerk will have to contact council legal dept.
I will keep ringing now so she does not forget me. :)
Or I may ring them myself. :)
Not sure if they will respond to a member of the public.
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Well done Denise
Keep going! Let us know when you know!
Best wishes, fingers crossed for you!
A
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Any news yet Denise?
I would be jumping up and down with frustration by now. couldn't do with waiting so long to hear from them!
Give them another ring!!!!!
Ann
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Calm Ann Calm,I will leave it a little while as our parish clerk has been great.
As you know our plot was half derelict and after some suggestions from me she has arranged to get paths cleared and a horror plot next to me cut down.
She has also arranged some rubbish clearance.
There was a period when I was contacting her all the time,I will give her a little breathing space but do not fear.I will be on the case again very soon.
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Yes you are right Denise! I will take a chill pill!
Ann
;D
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Yes,rules can be changed.............Heard off the parish clerk today
YES, I CAN KEEP CHICKENS...................SO HAPPY ;D ;D ;D
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Woohoooo! Yay! I am so envious. I'd love to have a couple but don't have the space on my plot and it's looking doubtful I'll get my second plot :(
So. How many, when, how - details please? ;)
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Thanks Ceres,
It has been a bit of a while to sort it.They found out what I already knew from posters on this thread,however the land is owned privately,so they had to write and get permission.The owners have given permission.Just got to be passed by the parish council .They all seemed quite supportive when I went to the last meeting so do not think there will be any probs.
I think I will need the winter to prepare for them.I have not dared to do anything in case I was turned down.I am so lucky to have two plots .I acquired my second plot when the site was mostly derelict.They are all occupied now,and I think there is a waiting list.
Iwon't keep many,will be looking for advice on this,As I mentioned before I am going to look into rare breeds but feel I should do a bit of chicken rescue,they have had such dreadful lives.
Old Bird will be pleased.She does very well with hers.
I will probally drive everyone crazy now asking for advice.
Hope you eventually get to keep some Ceres ;D
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Well done you! (Bet the Christmas turkey won't taste so great this year tho ::))
;D
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Brilliant news!
So pleased for you! What fun to do all the planning now and get some when it starts getting lighter and warmer!
A long time coming with the permission - but shows that persistence wins in the end!
Well done!
Old Bird
;D
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well done, my sister got her's after a long wait and she LOVESSSSSSSSSS then
I'm sure you will enjoy keeping them ;D
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Yes,rules can be changed.............Heard off the parish clerk today
YES, I CAN KEEP CHICKENS...................SO HAPPY ;D ;D ;D
Congratulations! It was obviously worth the effort to pester them. :) :) :)
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Have a look at Allotment lady, Simply living, chickens. She is mad on chickens and it is a good site, not as good as Allotments 4 all of course. Computer has just come back from being repaired. Missed this site.
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I learned lots form down the lane web site ;D
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Our AGM is in 2 weeks and have just heard that the agenda includes 'The keeping of chickens'. I don't think we currently have any rules about livestock (although there are hives on site) and as we're a private site there's no council involvement.
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Better get some now then Ceres before they ban them :)
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Based on the current activities of our committee, you're very probably right!
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No chooks for us :( Had a discussion at the AGM. Was going quite well until someone started quoting the letter of the law relating to animal welfare, how impossible it is to comply with the Animal Welfare Act 2006, how committee members will be personally responsible for breaches of the act, blah de blah de blah, how destructive chooks are, how they escape from everywhere, how every plot with chickens would have to be fenced in ..... It was a lost cause after that. We had no-one with experience to refute it. We even had 2 councillors there who explained that the council allows chickens on their sites and they would be happy to let us have their rules and regs to use but it didn't help. The vote was 7 for 50+ against. Amazing how all these allotment sites up and down the country put up with the nuisance of chooks, isn't it? ;)
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That is bad news Ceres.I have never heard of chickens being an issue before, apart from are they allowed or not.
Allotments are public places.If their welfare was not attended to it would quickly become obvious and so unlikely to happen.
If it is a council run site and no by laws to prevent it plotholders are entitled by law to keep chickens.The committee getting a vote against it has no standing in law.
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We're a private site, the councillors were guests. I've been thinking about the legality of it. Our warrant doesn't mention fruit/veg or livestock. It says that the ground can only be used as allotments. If you interpret 'allotment' as having the meaning assigned in the legislation, then it includes the keeping of chickens. Hhhm. Need some legal advice here I think.
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Since we don't follow the Napoleonic Code in Britain, it's normally safe to assume that anything which isn't banned is permitted.
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Ceres, I'd question the legal liability bit if I were you. We've got both bees and chickens on our site. All hives must be registered with the Beekeepers' Association, who have a right to come and inspect. But birds - any sort, not just chickens - don't have to be registered with Defra if the flock is under 50 (although they encourage voluntary registration). I assume that if the chickens were being ill-treated in any way the RSPCA would step in, but that's a slightly different matter.
The bit about the Committee members being personally liable (for anything, not just chickens) is a load of hot air.
And yes, all chickens should be fenced in, both to keep chickens in and foxes out! But if any damage is caused, it's the owner of the animals who is liable. (We have horses on our site: same applies to them. And if I take my dogs to the plot and they run amok, it's down to me!)