Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: losmos0 on June 26, 2008, 20:28:45
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please can i have some advice? my grandfather has had his allotment for the last 25 years. he's found it too demanding over the last few years and it has become very overgrown. He has now deceided that he'd like me to take over. I would LOVE to but, I have no idea who owns it. Apparently the council said they didn't and i havn't a clue who else to ask. I dont' want to get stuck and spend a fortune on greenhouses and such just for someone to come along and take it off me. Please if anyone has any advice i would be very grateful!! :)
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well you need to go to the site itself and have a word with the other plotholders if you work would sugest sunday mornings allways seems to be the best time tio find most people and also the chairman and so on
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Who collects his rents? They must know who the owner is to pay them. Check for a site agent or secretary.
:-\
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We have a similar problem. There is a chunk of the site that was rented from someone who then sold it/ developers bought it/ developers went bankrupt and no-one knows who owns it now. No rent is paid but rent money is put aside every year just in case someone appears and says : this is my land and i want the back rent.
Totally weird!
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No-one owns an allotment. We all rent it on an annual basis, even if it's a private site.
But there are rules about sub-letting (not allowed), so you do need to find out who the rent is paid to. (Does he pay by cheque? If so, he pays to an organisation, who should be traceable as we all have to register with the FSA.)
But - on a simpler level - agree with the others and go to the site, make yourself known (personal contact is always better) and ask around.
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hiya, losmos0, welcome to the site.. ;D
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I suppose it depends on whether there is a waiting list for allotments on the site.
If not, then your grandfather could keep the allotment in his name, and you could be his trusty helper, ie , take on the plot.
valmarg
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thank you all so much for your responces. i can't believe how kind you all are! We live in a small valley village, my grandfather has never paid rent to anyone, the allotment was just passed on to him by a nice old fella who had deceided it was too much for him. I will definately go have a word with the man who has a neighboring plot. There's only one person as it's on the side of a mountain!!!
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We have a similar problem. There is a chunk of the site that was rented from someone who then sold it/ developers bought it/ developers went bankrupt and no-one knows who owns it now. No rent is paid but rent money is put aside every year just in case someone appears and says : this is my land and i want the back rent.
Totally weird!
Wouldn't the Land Registry know?
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No-one owns an allotment. We all rent it on an annual basis, even if it's a private site.
You can, indeed, own an allotment outright. A private site near us has been partly sold for development. The Association had to track down the owners ( as far afield as Australia) and get them all to agree to the sale of their individual plots.
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thank you all so much for your responces. i can't believe how kind you all are! We live in a small valley village, my grandfather has never paid rent to anyone, the allotment was just passed on to him by a nice old fella who had deceided it was too much for him. I will definately go have a word with the man who has a neighboring plot. There's only one person as it's on the side of a mountain!!!
Ahem - your Grandfather may have acquired squatters rights in which case after twelve years of occupation, it may well have become his - freehold. In which case, he can pass it on to you however he likes. Do not assume this though and check out the position. To be a squatter, then occupation needs to be without permission. if it is with permission, then ownership will not be assumed. As I say, do check this out - it is over six years since I was in law and that landowning loving labour party may have stitched up even historic squatter's rights. Also, the (Common) law normally applies to dwellings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatter#United_Kingdom
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Wouldn't the Land Registry know?
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Can of worms, Betula, which the membership at our last AGM clearly don't want opened! :-X
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I dont' want to get stuck and spend a fortune on greenhouses and such just for someone to come along and take it off me.
No matter how long our waiting list, if a plot holder retires from their plot it always goes to next on the waiting list. Even if it has been shared for 20 years. The partner who's name is not on the contract is off. Council rules. However, they do allow one exception to this ruling. It may be passed direct to immediate siblings irrespective of any waiting lists. (Just a thought for you for when you do find the owner.) Good luck ;)
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That doesn't seem to be the case here though.
If your Grandad has had the plot that long, there are only two plots on the side of a mountain, there is no waiting list and none of your neighbours has expressed an interest then I would go for it.
I wouldn't go to the Land Registry or any other official body for that matter as it would probably only weaken your position i.e You may find that you owe rent, should not have been there in the first place etc.
I would work the plot as a seamless transition from your Grandad and if anybody asks, you are helping him out as he is "getting on a bit".
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The land registry must know who owns the land, and I wouldn't have thought a query to them would affect anyone's position, as it's not an offer to pay rent or anything like that. It does get complex; the Council leases our site, and then sublets to us. To the Council manages it, but any legal problems go back to Calthorpe's solicitors.
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Yes but if you ask the question they will start digging!
But perhaps I am being paranoid ;D ;D ;D
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To the land registry, it's a straightforward question. They would have no interest in digging as they don't care who owns land, just as long as it's recorded ( which it will be).
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Some staff at the land registry are canny, lists of unregistered properties have been passed to developers in the past. The only way an employee will notice a property is unregistered and hence ripe for adverse possession is when an enquiry is made. Still, irrespective, any claim of adverse possession would only be possible from the person in possession, id est old grandpops.
If the land is unregistered and it can be proven it has been used at the exclusion of all others, a claim of adverse possession could be lodged, after a period of time, 12 years I believe, a claim of ownership can be lodged.
However for any such claim to be made it is essential that you never make any acknowledgment that the land is rightfully someone else's or even that you think you may owe any money to someone, anyone. The lack of any contract may aid this.
I think a real case of adverse possession may be possible here.
Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession#Requirements_for_adverse_possession)
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You could go to quite a lot of effort finding out who owns it, but under the circumstances i would'nt bother - just get on with allotmenteering!
Its probably common land good for nothing else, and so the parish council have never bother collecting any rent for using it.
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Personally if I had the opportunity to take permanent ownership of my plot, I would. Making an enquiry to the Land Registry is really easy, cheap and quick. Just go to their website, it's all detailed there.
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Who has an opportunity to take personal possession of any land in this country?
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Absolutely anyone, under the laws of adverse possession.
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There was a famous case a few years ago of an old tramp ( can't think of another word off-hand) who'd built a shanty in the corner of a very large garden in London. The house owner wasn't bothered about him being there and then after maybe 15 or 20 years he gained ownership of the corner he'd built a fence around. Value somewhere near £1 million or something horrendous. He wasn't interested in selling, just being left alone.
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There was a famous case a few years ago of an old tramp ( can't think of another word off-hand) who'd built a shanty in the corner of a very large garden in London. The house owner wasn't bothered about him being there and then after maybe 15 or 20 years he gained ownership of the corner he'd built a fence around. Value somewhere near £1 million or something horrendous. He wasn't interested in selling, just being left alone.
Happens all the time, most commonly it is houses and it is property developers benefiting.
Put simply, if you take possession of land and use it at the exclusion of all others, you may have a claim to that land.
It's an ancient law, and an important one, it allows the recycling of land and houses that have fallen out of use and have no obvious owner.
Look at derelict properties, there are three in my road alone. Many will simply decay without the law allowing for their recycling through adverse possession laws.