Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: tim on June 13, 2008, 18:36:52
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Tanker driver - dangerous job - £36,000 per year. Seeking 13% increase.
Operational Jet Fighter Pilot - cushy job? - £22-30,000.
Have we got it right??
Of course, I'm not prejudiced!!
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:(
I find it incredibly hard to sympathise with anyone earning that kind of money. Dangerous job? Yes, but I think the current salary reflects that. Comparison to Jet Fighter Pilot? Don't think it is a fair comparison, military salaries have never been a real reflection of their value to us as a nation. I don't think it's right, just the way it is! That is said by someone who has served in the Navy!!
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The increase is a little much to expect, most people are lucky to get more than 4% per year.
But i think the point is they hav'nt had a rise in line with the average for a few years. It is quite dangerous job really, driving round all day with a massive tank full of petrol behind you, and coping with the general public driving abilities...
Although a Jet fighter pilot is not a cushy job if there's a war going on, the rest of the time i bet its amazing... Also i assume they get accommodation costs subsidised or even paid for.
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Do you really believe that tanker drivers earn £36000 a year, I don't Perhaps some one driving illegally doing double shifts might otherwise I reckon £18,000 will be more on the mark.
Also do you think that tanker drivers really want to be tanker drivers, I bet they would rather be flying jet fighters. Even at the pay rate quoted.
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£36000 Thats alot a yorkies
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Do you really believe that tanker drivers earn £36000 a year, I don't Perhaps some one driving illegally doing double shifts might otherwise I reckon £18,000 will be more on the mark.
Also do you think that tanker drivers really want to be tanker drivers, I bet they would rather be flying jet fighters. Even at the pay rate quoted.
A tanker driver on the news this evening said he was paid £20,000 a year.
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The £36,000 will be for doing in the region of 65-70 hours per week or it could be for a four day rolling week which takes in weekends. Oil companies and other industries that operated their own in house transport got rid of it because it became expensive and also gave the companies loads of hassel with dealing with the powers that be like the Ministry of Transport 'VOSA' and just the general operation of running lorries, they put the transport out to tender to haulage companies. Now the haulage companies take on the work and in some cases the drivers are transferred over to the transport operator under 'TUPE' rules, in some cases the drivers are made redundant and have to apply for their jobs with the new operator and inmost cases on a completely different contract of employment which I can assure you will be in the new operators favour, you might see the tankers in Shell livery but they are not Shell vehicles but belong to the transport company. The new operator when they take on the work which is normally over a five year contract so consequently the pay rises are related to this figure each year or it might be every two years, the tanker drivers complaint is that they are falling behind with their annual pay rise so the complaint is not with Shell but with the transport company, I have been in this exact situation and I'm in total agreement with the tanker drivers and I hope no one crosses their picket lines or scabs, this post is not from a socialist or Labour supporter. ;)
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Nice to hear the nitty-gritty from someone who knows. Although I said rant, I really meant open thinking. Yes, there are always 2 sides & I'm the last to begrudge a living wage.
1. Tankers dangerous? Yes. Maybe I should have said Nimrod aircrew? 12,000 gallons of fuel is it?
2. Cheap lodgings? Yes - base accommodation when you are young, but I paid for it all for 30 years.
3. No COL increase? However, they've had that very good sum for many years - as said.
4. Not £36,000? If that is not the whole truth, why is it allowed to be published without more objection?
5. I DO appreciate the difference in job security - a VERY big consideration. And there is always the matter of Pensions?
Yes - I would rather fly - for any money - than drive a lorry!!
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There was a tanker driver on the radio yesterday who claimed they only want to catch up with Asda and (I forget which other company) tanker drivers who get £40,000. He said the last 2 pay rises Asda etc gave Shell didn't.
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By their own admission in live TV yesterday their current basic salary for a 45 hour week is £31,800.
OTE = An AVERAGE of £36k last year
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The increase is a little much to expect, most people are lucky to get more than 4% per year.
But i think the point is they hav'nt had a rise in line with the average for a few years. It is quite dangerous job really, driving round all day with a massive tank full of petrol behind you, and coping with the general public driving abilities...
Although a Jet fighter pilot is not a cushy job if there's a war going on, the rest of the time i bet its amazing... Also i assume they get accommodation costs subsidised or even paid for.
Yeah a tent in Afganistan
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yes and a staff nurse in accident and emergency who has a risky and at times dangerous job, obviously nothing like a fighter pilot or tanker driver
£21,000 a year and ive been hit, slapped and yesterday puked on from head to toe?
would i swap it to be a fighter pilot or tanker drive, no i wouldnt ;D
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I wonder what the statistical probability is of tankers burning/ exploding and the driver being killed. Certainly if something goes wrong then the consequences are likely to be severe, but how likely is it that it would happen? I'd hazard a guess that it is not very likely at all.
And thinking for example of nurses and fighter pilots.... I wonder how many years' training it takes to be a tanker driver?
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The £36,000 will be for doing in the region of 65-70 hours per week or it could be for a four day rolling week which takes in weekends. Oil companies and other industries that operated their own in house transport got rid of it because it became expensive and also gave the companies loads of hassel with dealing with the powers that be like the Ministry of Transport 'VOSA' and just the general operation of running lorries, they put the transport out to tender to haulage companies. Now the haulage companies take on the work and in some cases the drivers are transferred over to the transport operator under 'TUPE' rules, in some cases the drivers are made redundant and have to apply for their jobs with the new operator and inmost cases on a completely different contract of employment which I can assure you will be in the new operators favour, you might see the tankers in Shell livery but they are not Shell vehicles but belong to the transport company. The new operator when they take on the work which is normally over a five year contract so consequently the pay rises are related to this figure each year or it might be every two years, the tanker drivers complaint is that they are falling behind with their annual pay rise so the complaint is not with Shell but with the transport company, I have been in this exact situation and I'm in total agreement with the tanker drivers and I hope no one crosses their picket lines or scabs, this post is not from a socialist or Labour supporter. ;)
Hypocrite - no sympathy for the teachers who spend four years on nothing (in fact incurring fees) whilst training and then start on a damned lot less than Tanker drivers rising to less than tanker drivers whilst working a 70+ hour week. >:(
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Surely in these times of record profits for oil companies there is room for the employees who ultimately make those profits to expect a share?
Frankly I'm surprised anyone would take the side of these unscrupulous profiteering multinational cartels that are the oil companies.
Perhaps the oil companies should be contributing to the pay of our pilots and soldiers salaries, after all, for what other purpose are they risking their lives in Iraq if not to secure oil?
Just my two pence worth.
Z
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The £36,000 will be for doing in the region of 65-70 hours per week or it could be for a four day rolling week which takes in weekends.
65-70 hours per week!
1, the working time directive can be very confusing the maximum working week is 48 hours but can be exceeded by averaging over a period of 17-23 weeks
the maximum amount of hours driven in a week must not exceed 56,
the maximum number of hours worked in a week must not exceed 60 , 90 in a fortnight.
maximum hours worked per shift must not exceed 15
ten hours if you work nights,
maximum number of shifts in a week must not exceed 6,
minimum daily rest is 11 hours can be reduced to 9 no more than twice a week and no more than 3 times a fortnight,
weekly rest must be of at least 45 hours but can be reduced to 24 but must be repaid by the end of the 3rd week following the week in question.
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Redclanger,
I thought my post would wind you up you being a junior school teacher, by your previous posts it seems to me that you are a sixth form drop out, in fact I would rather have a decent debate with 'Tim' so go back to you private eye mag or any of the other left wing rubbish that you read and leave us adults to to discuss this topic, in two words P--- Off,
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Kimbobill, does that working directive cover all workers? the reason im asking is it says can only work 10 hours a night did i read that correctly?
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Kimbobill, does that working directive cover all workers? the reason im asking is it says can only work 10 hours a night did i read that correctly?
This is from the TUC website.
Most workers who normally work at night are protected under the Working Time Regulations, (including regular rotating shifts, but excluding those who only occasionally work nights).. Night work is defined as at least 3 hours work taking place during the hours 11 pm to 6 am. Over a reference period of 17 weeks workers are not required to work more than an average of 8 hours on night work in every 24 hours (eg 48 hours per week over 6 working nights). An exception to the average is where night work involves special hazards, heavy physical or mental strain. In these cases there is an absolute daily limit - work cannot be continued beyond 8 hours in any 24 hours. For some workers, (for example, security guards, caretakers, and those doing certain jobs which cannot be interrupted), the regulations restricting the length of night work to eight hours do not apply. As with day workers, night workers are entitled to at least 20 minutes rest during any period of work lasting 6 hours or more.
You cannot 'opt-out from these nightwork limits.
There are different rules for mobile transport workers and tougher rules for 16 and 17 year old workers
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I often wonder, why do people join the armed forces, become teachers, policemen, firefighters, nurses etc, when they know the pay is not the same as the private sector, then drip they aren't being paid enough and compare their wages to the private sector? ???
I always thought you joined the above jobs in the public setor to get your pension at the end of the day, so why go on about your lowly wages now?
Shell make the profits let them spread it among their workers.
Sinbad
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I kind of wondered the same thing Sinbad7, but i'm not brave enough to post in this thread
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The WTD covers a 48 hour weeek if you work nights the max is 10 hours per night, if you work in the transport industry you then come under the RTD which is the Road Transport Directive you can't start before 0400 in the morning, in fact I'm not even going there to explain it to you have a look at the web site and even the powers that be don't even know what they are going on about not even school teachers :)
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Dear Alf Garnet,
I like redclangers views, but then I've never liked self centred pompous right wing idiots.
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in fact I'm not even going there to explain it to you
spoilsport
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trust me i wasnt complaining about my wages, if i didnt like it i would work else where, and to be honest in my opinion if you dont like what you get paid change your job i wouldnt imagine there are many nurses that do there job just for the money, most nursing needs an element of enjoying the job, my remark about the wages and being puked on was very tongue in cheek
anyone who knows me knows i have never ever complained about my wages, where else would i earn that much money with the amount of holiday i get ??
i love my job i love looking after people :)
I have complained about the working conditions though cos on a long day 07.30 am to 8.30pm only ever got 3/4 of an hours break and never finished on time usually 9pm sometimes later but that was far more indicative of poor ward management then anything else cos in my new job unless there is a major emergency i always get all my breaks and leave on time
the reason i asked about the 10 hour night thing is that we work nights from 8.15 pm to 07.45 am and get paid for 10 hours only, now i know why, (we do get an hour and a half break) and i always wondered why.
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private eye mag or any of the other left wing rubbish
Hahaha!! That's the funniest thing I've read this year! If you think Private Eye is left wing, you've rather removed any credibility from your viewpoint!
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Drip, drizzle or dribble? If I want to complain, I do it more forcefully than that. And even your view, RT, should be allowed without fear of reprisal?
Good points, Sinbad. But at 18, one hadn't heard of pensions. Or, certainly, I hadn't! Or free lunches.
It's a crying shame that MoD - or the NHS, for that matter - doesn't make a profit - instead of throwing billions down the drain each year on some ill-advised project. Leaving some folk ill-equipped/protected for their job.
Drip? I suppose that, with hindsight, one wonders why some vital services have been undervalued, rather than why others are seeking a living wage.
Politics? The right to strike. If I had been serving at the time of the Iraq entry, I would have struck!! All I could do, after 36 years loyal service, was to join a protest group. Nothing to do with money!
I do hope that this thread has not bred antagonism, & after 2 Scotches, I'll bide my wee.
PS In the hours that it took me to write that, 5 new posts came in. I am NOT going to re-write!!
PPS - debster - being in a medical family, I do SO agree with your sentiments. If I could do anything useful, I would fight for your lot rather than ours.
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Chin chin!!
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bottoms up
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I honestly wasn't having a pop at any one individual debster, it is the public sector as a whole. Many get on waiting lists to get these jobs then turn militant and want to strike as they aren't being paid enough, I just find it strange.
As for a living wage Tim, what's that? Surely a living wage is the wage you need to live on, well it depends how one wants to live. Everyone of us sees that differently and has different needs and wants.
I'm not feeling antagonistic towards anyone, just have always wondered.
Sinbad
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Redclanger,
I thought my post would wind you up you being a junior school teacher, by your previous posts it seems to me that you are a sixth form drop out, in fact I would rather have a decent debate with 'Tim' so go back to you private eye mag or any of the other left wing rubbish that you read and leave us adults to to discuss this topic, in two words P--- Off,
Such a grown up answer too! Answer this - why support tanker drivers but not teachers?
I do not see why you think I am immature. I make a valid point about your double standards and two facedness. Also, how can sixth form drop out become a teacher when you need O Levels (now GCSEs) A Levels (you need to complete sixth form to get these) a degree and a post-graduate qualification? BTW, I have two post-grads, one teaching and one law - what are yours or did you not even make sixth form?
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Drip, drizzle or dribble? If I want to complain, I do it more forcefully than that. And even your view, RT, should be allowed without fear of reprisal?
Good points, Sinbad. But at 18, one hadn't heard of pensions. Or, certainly, I hadn't! Or free lunches.
It's a crying shame that MoD - or the NHS, for that matter - doesn't make a profit - instead of throwing billions down the drain each year on some ill-advised project. Leaving some folk ill-equipped/protected for their job.
Drip? I suppose that, with hindsight, one wonders why some vital services have been undervalued, rather than why others are seeking a living wage.
Politics? The right to strike. If I had been serving at the time of the Iraq entry, I would have struck!! All I could do, after 36 years loyal service, was to join a protest group. Nothing to do with money!
I do hope that this thread has not bred antagonism, & after 2 Scotches, I'll bide my wee.
PS In the hours that it took me to write that, 5 new posts came in. I am NOT going to re-write!!
PPS - debster - being in a medical family, I do SO agree with your sentiments. If I could do anything useful, I would fight for your lot rather than ours.
Are you sure you was in the British armed forces. Go on strike! I take it that you were not invovled with the Falklands otherwise you might have gone on strike then? There was a lot of opposition then and a lot of lies told to the nation.
The only thing that the opposition kept on about with Iraq was WMD's just because we didn't find them was they were probally shipped out to another country. There was a lot of justification to invade
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and sinbad no offence taken honestly i was just talking generally ;D
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Redclanger,
I'm impressed by your academia if you think that your job is crap and by the sound of your post you suggest that then go and be a Tanker driver but remember they do not get the same holidays like your lot get, and by the way do you know how to grind in a crankshaft of course you do that is why you are a junior school teacher and I have dirty finger nails ;)
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Debster, did you see the reply "hours of work" from the TUC on page one of this thread
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Sawfish,
If I was you I would sort out your own bigotted city and country before you have a go at me, but do not worrie I'll keep stumping up the dosh to 'Gordy' ;)
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Redclanger,
I'm impressed by your academia if you think that your job is crap and by the sound of your post you suggest that then go and be a Tanker driver but remember they do not get the same holidays like your lot get, and by the way do you know how to grind in a crankshaft of course you do that is why you are a junior school teacher and I have dirty finger nails ;)
I don't think my job is crap. I love my job. But I do not think my children shoudl go without because of what I do - and they do. We have one income and it does not go very far. My partner is training to be a nurse before you tell her to go out and get a job.
Sawfish,
If I was you I would sort out your own bigotted city and country before you have a go at me, but do not worrie I'll keep stumping up the dosh to 'Gordy' ;)
Yet more rascism from the most bigotted poster on here!
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Oops! I think you seem to have inadvertantly opened a cans of worms here Tim.
If it's relevant, I was earning nearly £17,000 a year when I left teaching and my pension's based on that. No further comment ....
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No - 'advertently'!!
But I should not have headed my bit as 'political'. More 'personal'.
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Yes Tim, now look what you've done! The cat is playing with the pigeons again and it's all your fault!
Scotch sounds a good idea though... there's no malt left in the house so I shall opt for the Bordeaux tonight, I think... now about my leeks...
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One thought, on topic, and a bonus point for who can tell me the artist that wrote "The lessons of the past were all learnt with workers blood".
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Can recommend Sloe gin made by the sloe motion company.............Cheers to you all :)............hic
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One thought, on topic, and a bonus point for who can tell me the artist that wrote "The lessons of the past were all learnt with workers blood".
Billy Bragg 'There Is Power In A Union' 1988
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO56Krg1e8A
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Sawfish,
If I was you I would sort out your own bigotted city and country before you have a go at me, but do not worrie I'll keep stumping up the dosh to 'Gordy' ;)
OOH, I am hurt Alf. A rascist too, surprise surprise!
I think you'll find the empire you probaly still love died some time ago.
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some one asked what is a living wage
the government says it is any thing more than 16,492 a year as you fall below the poverty line if earn less than this
I did not realise just how poor i am :o
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yes kimbobill i did i was amazed to learn about the 10 hour night thing, my nhs trust obviously get around this by putting an hour and a half break into the night so although we are there longer then that that is all we officially work and get paid for
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I hope no one crosses their picket lines or scabs,
Good God - a militant Tory! Whatever next - Blue Wedge?
;D
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Redclanger,
I'm impressed by your academia if you think that your job is crap and by the sound of your post you suggest that then go and be a Tanker driver but remember they do not get the same holidays like your lot get, and by the way do you know how to grind in a crankshaft of course you do that is why you are a junior school teacher and I have dirty finger nails ;)
I think you are very rude Mr Smith and very ignorant too.
I would like to point out that teachers work extremely long hours. Before I got married I shared a house with a teacher whose evenings and weekends were spent preparing for lessons the next day. In the holidays she would always have work to do too.
These days things are even worse than that. A friend of mine who is now a deputy head is absolutely inundated with work at home. She goes into school at 7am, doesn't leave until after 5pm and then has all this work to do in the evenings and at weekends. She doesn't get long holidays as she is expected to go into school to prepare for the next term.
Rant over. Coming back to the salary earned by tanker drivers, I think it is excessive. I bet there are proportionately more people killed or injured who work for the public sector than those driving a tanker.
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Pauline,
Thanks for your comments I'm sure Redclanger can take a bit of stick like I do being called a bigot which I'm not, have a nice day off to the lotty now :)
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One thought, on topic, and a bonus point for who can tell me the artist that wrote "The lessons of the past were all learnt with workers blood".
Billy Bragg 'There Is Power In A Union' 1988
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO56Krg1e8A
First prize to you Mr Baccy, have a bag of peace nuts... And that's the point. Just because one group of people have organised themselves to resist exploitation, doesn't mean the rest of us should be bitter. If they were paid less, it would only make a tiny amount more profit for the oil companies. It wouldn't save any of us a penny. So I say good luck to them!
As for why are the forces paid so little? Because they can get away with it, and you have to admit that a lot of the job is cool (apart from the "being shot at", of course. I wouldn't like that at all, especially being a pacifist and also wanting to live).
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I think that the work of Nurses & Teachers is actually more predictably daily hazardous or unpleasant than that of our dear old peacetime aircrew chap. Or chappess these days!
But the expression 'cool' that keeps cropping up interests me. I can't speak from current experience but, based on what little I do have, I would see today's crews as being severely limited in flying time of any sort because of expense, & what little they do get can hardly be called jollification. It is mostly flying a very sophisticated beast to the limit, day & night, on operational training. Gone are the days when you could take an aircraft home for the weekend!!
And where would you be, up Snowdon in your plimsolls in the snow, or surfing off Newquay, without the Rescue chopper?
Interesting, the 'living wage'? Glad to see that Trevor just made it!! Sad to think of the number of national servants who are on the borderline.
I am not really the 'Big Chief Moaning Elk' as the Apprentices once dubbed me - on presenting me with my Indian headdress - but I do think it useful for those of us who are better placed to be occasionally reminded of the anomalies of the present system.
Please don't spill blood over any of my remarks?
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You have a really good way of putting things accross Tim, its much appreciated...... by me anyway.