Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: Flunky on May 24, 2008, 10:24:46
-
I have been thinking of this for quite a while.
I have been listening to the news from Crewe and the government are saying about how they are going to listen to the public.
When will these people actually start to solve some of these problems. They will quite happily bail out a broken bank. But what about the price of fuel, food, taxes etc etc etc.
I am taxed to get to work, i am taxed while I am work and then on the way home. While having my tea I pay tax on averything on my plate and then, when I go out to try and enjoy the labours of hard work I am bl00dy well taxed there as well. It is really starting to get to me.
I dont want this to turn into a political rant because they are nigh on all the same. I dont think it matters who you vote for. But just cant understand why we put up with it. I really thought we were a stronger nation of people. Never seen so much non action.
What do you guys think ? Do you feel the government listens ?
-
Sorry. Did you say something?
You are right though, everybody seem to be sitting on their hands at the moment.
-
re that vote the other day1
I really thought they should change abortions to 20 weeks and I firmly believe children are better off with a mum and dad,cannot change the fact that it isn,t possible in a lot of cases but this does seem a step too far for me
sitting on the fence about the embryo/hybrid thing, cannot decide
marg
-
sitting on the fence about the embryo/hybrid thing, cannot decide
I agree that the other issues are a matter of morals but this it is not destroying or creating life; so there is no room for a moral objection except by those who oversimplify religion and science...
But no, government don't listen.
-
Probably not as much as people would like - but a darn sight more than some so called governments around the world. At least we are able to vote them out if not entirely happy, and then when the next lot b****s it up we can vote them out as well. :)
Unfortunately most of us - myself included are slightly over optimistic when each parties manifesto come out ahead of an election. I read the spiel and sometimes even am gullible enough to believe it - but somewhere it all goes awry.
On the taxes front I am afraid I do believe we need to pay taxes so the whole of society benefits and not just the wealthy. A lot of people are currently moaning about the NHS - well go back 20 years when it was starved of cash under the Tories to fund tax cuts and then look at what we have now (warts and all) and you will realise its a lot better. You get what you pay for and this is as true of a welfare system as when you go to the shops.
:o Gosh sorry about the rant - but politics seem to set me off. ;D
-
Voters have now forgotten just how bad life under the Tories was and I for one believe that is a very dangerous thing to forget. I am guilty, I look round at what we have now and want more but i was at school during the eighties when we had to shre books that were twice as old as we were and buildings were falling apart etc. I also waited for hours in the Tory casualty departments. The people were always as good generally but the infrastructure and resourcing stank.
-
Thanks for you replies so far 150 views and 19 votes.
I agree about the tax thing, we should pay tax and as I said its not about this government or that. This could be tory or labour or whoever. Just wish they would listen not just steam roller over us all the time. If you had a contract (manifesto) that you based your decision who to vote for on and they did not do it then there should be some sort re-course. My main gripe is the sheer speed at which things are increasing and the total spin etc that the govenrment put on it.
-
When New Labour MP's start to whine like they have done in the last few days I love it, mind you two of the rats have left the sinking free loading ship to make a few bob in other places namely Bambi and Prezza :)
-
In the Sun today (i know I know) it has actually levelled exactly what I am thinking at the politicians. They are doing nothing. Also I have been reading with interest about the expenses debate has been swepped under the carpet and now they want to change how they do it so they dont have to disclose. OMG. Whats going on ? I cant afford to drive to work and they are claiming £10,000 for a kitchen !!!!
-
i agree totally im sick and tired of the gov past and present making up rules for themselves as allready mentioned this country has had to tighten there belts the price of things these days is scandelous dont start me on petrol , its time we all had somthing to say as we all are thinking about it . pay increase are well below inflation i am worse off this year at least 25 % as a result of fuel costs , petrol,food what next tax me for having thoughts next
-
The only sound any politician hears is the sound of their own voice
-
I like the new government directive of showing porn films on mini screens at petrol stations.
Just to show that you are not the only one being shafted when you are filling up.
-
I always thought thats why they sell grease. ;D
-
I think they all just tweak things whereas what is required is a radical rethink about how we collect revenue and how, what and who we tax. The benefits system stinks and is abused left right and centre. No wonder we are disgruntled. It doesn't seem to matter who is in power so the ballot box is no solution.
-
A lot of people are currently moaning about the NHS - well go back 20 years when it was starved of cash under the Tories to fund tax cuts and then look at what we have now (warts and all) and you will realise its a lot better. You get what you pay for and this is as true of a welfare system as when you go to the shops.
As an employee in the NHS during the 60s and 70s, I can assure you that it was not the Tories who starved the NHS of funds. Between 1974 and 1979 Harold Wilson/Jim Callaghan were responsible for systematically starving the NHS of funds.
valmarg
-
No they do not listen & I am not listening to them at the next election i am NOT going to vote I KNOW I KNOW, freedom & all that but i cannot believe anything they say or do they are fleecing us every which way they can.
We pay the highest fuel tax in Europe & who bloody cares NOT them, ANY of them, so they will have to pay a high price come an election.
Sorry rant over ;D
-
Rosebud, I have always voted in elections, mainly because 100 years ago I would not have been allowed to. If it hadn't been for the suffragettes I probably still wouldn't be. Its a silly old fashioned thing :(
I think the reason most people don't vote nowadays is because (apart from taxing us into extinction), this government doesn't have much say on what goes on in the UK. The EU diktats overule anything this government does.
When you are ruled by an unelected bunch of self seeking beaurocrats who have their snouts even deeper in the gravy train trough than the 'home grown' variety the only thing you are left with is despair.
valmarg
-
I start from the premise that all journalists are liars, some worse than others. I now extend this to politicians. I always vote, not for Labour or Conservative. In our constituency the alternative is the second strongest vote, but if I don't like their policies I spoilt the paper. That way it has to be counted but does not count for any party.
-
I am so very sick of governments being my nanny >:( I dont need a nanny as Im all grown up now.
I work hard and drive a good car and so does my husband for which we will pay horrendous charges in tax with fuel and road tax.
BTW Hubby pays for my car because I care for my mother who has alzheimers. I provide ( I retired early from Nursing to do this) 24/7 care for which the government thinks is worth 45 pounds per week!!! If I didnt care for Mum she would go into a home and cost the NHS 900 pounds per week!!!
And as she has a house they will sell it to pay for her care and if that still isnt enough they can charge ME her top up fees, by which time I dont get carers allowance and have been out of the job market for so long I may not get another job.
There is no other medical condition that these rules apply to. >:( >:(
No I dont think this government listens, at least not to ordinary working class people they dont!!! And whats worse is that they dont care that they dont listen!!
If they carry on like this there will be major civil unrest.
When Hubby retires we will go and live abroad
-
We pay the highest fuel tax in Europe & who bloody cares NOT them, ANY of them, so they will have to pay a high price come an election.
Sorry rant over ;D
Why should they. I have been considering this since I posted this. They dont live in a world where they have to worry about fuel costs, bills, living expenses Beacause they can claim a lot back and they earn enough not to have to worry about the rest It always seems to be the ones that work the hardest that get hit the hardest. If you paid an MP an average wage and told them they have to pay everything we do. I think then and only then will we start to see a change.
F.
-
Yes it is sickening what the leeches get away with.
valmarg
-
As was painted on a wall in Derby in the 80's... "Don't vote, it only encourages them.... "
;D
-
BTW Hubby pays for my car because I care for my mother who has alzheimers. I provide ( I retired early from Nursing to do this) 24/7 care for which the government thinks is worth 45 pounds per week!!! If I didnt care for Mum she would go into a home and cost the NHS 900 pounds per week!!!
And as she has a house they will sell it to pay for her care and if that still isnt enough they can charge ME her top up fees, by which time I dont get carers allowance and have been out of the job market for so long I may not get another job.
There is no other medical condition that these rules apply to. >:( >:(
................
When Hubby retires we will go and live abroad.
Ishard
I have every sympathy for you and your family, caring for a relative with Alzheimer's. I cared for both my parents who had the same disease though five years apart.
The carer's allowance is a ridiculous amount but it has been for many years. Do make sure that your mother claims the full 24 hour attendance allowance and maybe use some of this money towards your car and travelling costs.
You cannot be forced to pay top up fees for a nursing home. See this example: http://www.medway.gov.uk/index/socialcare/resaccom/3736.html
As for going abroad, some of the European countries pay far more tax than we do so the grass is not always greener on the other side!
MP's are paid a pittance compared with some Company Directors. I bet there are people on here who earn more than they do.
The only way taxes could be brought down (other than by cutting services) is to get the rich to pay income tax. Many of them evade it altogether so we have the situation where a low paid worker pays more than someone earning millions. The Government has brought out some legislation which may help this situation but no doubt accountants will find other ways around it. What the Government has done though is to cut the number of Civil Servants who bring in the revenue from those who are trying to avoid it!
I agree with what others have said about benefit cheats. Moonlighters too should be dealt with severely.
-
MP's are paid a pittance compared with some Company Directors. I bet there are people on here who earn more than they do.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/M05.pdf Read this and let me know if you think it is a pittance. God bless freedom of information.
Company directors usually get a salary in line with their performance / experience. If you earn a company £10k or £10mil you deseve a share of it. If you do well then you deserve it. I dont think the MP's do deserve it.
-
MP's are paid a pittance compared with some Company Directors. I bet there are people on here who earn more than they do.
And this is where we differentiate between the 'public' and 'private' sectors of industry.
CEOs, MDs, Company Directors of companies in the private sector are the people who contribute towards the wealth of this country, so why shouldn't they reap their rewards. They bring benefits (aka wealth) into the country.
On the other hand MPs, and for that matter any public sector employee is paid out of tax payers' money and contributes nothing towards the economy. They are leaches, and the more there are the more expensive it becomes for the private sector.
Under Labour in the last 11 years public sector employees have increased to 25% of the workforce. This is unsustainable.
valmarg
-
*Rant alert*
They don't listen at all, it all appears to be spin and lip service. I do a lot of running around for my grandmother, particularly since my gramps passed away. I use my car as her mobility isn't good enough for public transport, but lately it's getting tighter and tighter and I'm beginning to get to the point where I'm seriously considering selling it as it's just too expensive to run. I don't have a so-called gas guzzler, it's an S reg citroen, I keep it in as good a repair as I can afford and I only use it if I can't get somewhere by foot. So why in hells name should the money that I've paid in taxes be used to pay for an MP's flaming new kitchen?! She can't claim Carer's Allowance for me (which I don't want anyway) because I'm in full time education, so therefore according to the government I can't possibly be a carer as well. So I'm priced off the road, I'm tightening my belt left, right and centre to make sure that I can give my kids as good a life as I possibly can (their father doesn't because the now defunct CSA were absolutely useless and told me that it was up to me to find out where he worked as they didn't have "investigative" powers), oh and at the same time I get stick for being a single parent, despite the fact that my children have manners, don't carry knives and respect adults (no they're not angels, but I'm very proud of them). Then just to kick us in the teeth they now want a £23k grant so they don't have to provide receipts and don't have to disclose where it goes! Grrrrrrrrrr >:( >:( >:(
*Rant alert over*
-
MP's are paid a pittance compared with some Company Directors. I bet there are people on here who earn more than they do.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/M05.pdf Read this and let me know if you think it is a pittance. God bless freedom of information.
Company directors usually get a salary in line with their performance / experience. If you earn a company £10k or £10mil you deseve a share of it. If you do well then you deserve it. I dont think the MP's do deserve it.
I still think MP's salary is low compared to what many others get.
Company Directors are not necessarily paid by performance.
MP's are paid a pittance compared with some Company Directors. I bet there are people on here who earn more than they do.
And this is where we differentiate between the 'public' and 'private' sectors of industry.
CEOs, MDs, Company Directors of companies in the private sector are the people who contribute towards the wealth of this country, so why shouldn't they reap their rewards. They bring benefits (aka wealth) into the country.
On the other hand MPs, and for that matter any public sector employee is paid out of tax payers' money and contributes nothing towards the economy. They are leaches, and the more there are the more expensive it becomes for the private sector.
Under Labour in the last 11 years public sector employees have increased to 25% of the workforce. This is unsustainable.
valmarg
A load of old codswallop as usual from you, Valmarg. Where is your proof for what you say?
"On the other hand MPs, and for that matter any public sector employee is paid out of tax payers' money and contributes nothing towards the economy. They are leaches, and the more there are the more expensive it becomes for the private sector."
I am sorry you feel that way about doctors, nurses, teachers, police officers, military personnel and all the other public servants who bring in the cash without which there would not be the money to pay your pension.
-
MP's are paid a pittance compared with some Company Directors. I bet there are people on here who earn more than they do.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/M05.pdf Read this and let me know if you think it is a pittance. God bless freedom of information.
Company directors usually get a salary in line with their performance / experience. If you earn a company £10k or £10mil you deseve a share of it. If you do well then you deserve it. I dont think the MP's do deserve it.
I still think MP's salary is low compared to what many others get.
Company Directors are not necessarily paid by performance.
MP's are paid a pittance compared with some Company Directors. I bet there are people on here who earn more than they do.
And this is where we differentiate between the 'public' and 'private' sectors of industry.
CEOs, MDs, Company Directors of companies in the private sector are the people who contribute towards the wealth of this country, so why shouldn't they reap their rewards. They bring benefits (aka wealth) into the country.
On the other hand MPs, and for that matter any public sector employee is paid out of tax payers' money and contributes nothing towards the economy. They are leaches, and the more there are the more expensive it becomes for the private sector.
Under Labour in the last 11 years public sector employees have increased to 25% of the workforce. This is unsustainable.
valmarg
A load of old codswallop as usual from you, Valmarg. Where is your proof for what you say?
"On the other hand MPs, and for that matter any public sector employee is paid out of tax payers' money and contributes nothing towards the economy. They are leaches, and the more there are the more expensive it becomes for the private sector."
I am sorry you feel that way about doctors, nurses, teachers, police officers, military personnel and all the other public servants who bring in the cash without which there would not be the money to pay your pension.
i think thats quite a silly thing to say I think NO ONE has a problem with any of those people but why the hell do you need an NHS manager to run a ward. Surely the most important people are the nursing staff. We know we need ADMIN tasks etc. But I am in financial services and I know that an NHS manager is on about £30k. How many nurses would that provide. Its not the fact that this sector has increased its all the B*****it roles that have been created. In our local paper the head of the council has a £200,000 salary, now tell me why she deserves more than the prime minister. This is what people are talking about not the increases in USEFUL people. We would be up the creek without them.
The point being made here is that BP for example bring in Billions of pounds to the economy. Sheila/Barry the NHS manager/inland revenue or some quasi role brings in nothing. Therefore we need less of these and more of the BP's who are run by people with million pound salaries.
Bear this in mind also NI contributions paid by us NOW bearly cover the cost the existing pensions. (never mind anything else) God help us when the population claiming pension exceeds the ones who are working. You wait, then you will see a problem.
-
No >:(
-
Flunky, I agree with your first paragraph. If the Tories had stuck to keeping the Matrons and NHS cleaners we would not have the MRSA problems that we have now. I too remember reading that the head of a council was getting at least £200,000. How can they justify it!
Inland revenue or some quasi role brings in nothing. Therefore we need less of these and more of the BP's who are run by people with million pound salaries.
I am afraid I disagree with this statement and as an ex civil servant I can tell you that this is not the case. Do away with Inland Revenue staff and there would be no one to enforce payment. Believe me, some people with million pound salaries try to get away with paying income tax now and would definitely not pay any given half the chance.
Might I suggest you read "The Selfish Capitalist" by Oliver James. There is evidence in the book to show that money from the rich does not trickle down to the poor.
Valmarg,
I am still awaiting proof of your statement that: Under Labour in the last 11 years public sector employees have increased to 25% of the workforce. Was it in the Daily Mail? Please, please tell me where you get your information from.
Here are the statistics. You will notice that public sector employees have decreased since Labour came to power.
See http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1292
-
Trickledown is an outdated right wing economic theory. Outdated because it doesn't work, never has worked and never will work.
PS - who educated the BP executives. Who mends them when they are sick and broken? Who defends their homes from intruders and defends their persons from violation? Who would defend their country should the need arise? Who empties their bins? Who lights their streets and mends their roads? Need I go on?
Finally, who can afford accountants to make sure that they do not have to pay back what they owe to the state that put them where they are?
-
On the other hand MPs, and for that matter any public sector employee is paid out of tax payers' money and contributes nothing towards the economy. They are leaches, and the more there are the more expensive it becomes for the private sector.
Under Labour in the last 11 years public sector employees have increased to 25% of the workforce. This is unsustainable
Wow! So public sector employees constitute 25% of all taxpayers and yet they manage to contribute nothing. Neat trick! How do they do it?
-
PS - who educated the BP executives. Who mends them when they are sick and broken? Who defends their homes from intruders and defends their persons from violation? Who would defend their country should the need arise? Who empties their bins? Who lights their streets and mends their roads? Need I go on?
Nope, no need to go on. As I said, no one is saying we dont need all the above. I just think they dont need 10 people standing behind them telling them how to do it. Just a couple would do.
How can anyone be bitter about somone who is succesful and uses the system to their advantage ? I know I would if could afford a good accountant (who trains them ?) There is no law against tax avoidence the problem arises from tax evasion. You cant compare percentages of tax v's income. In real monetary value I bet they pay more in tax than most of us earn. They still have the same fuel bills, council tax etc etc and thats point of this thread. The government doesnt listen because ORDINARY people are suffering heavily. No point in trying to "bash the rich" good luck to them I have no axe to grind with anyone who is successful. Who wouldnt want to live in a sunny tax haven ?. Think of the lottie you could have ;D.
Pauline7 was not being specific just generalising. I know we need tax people. As I said at the start of the post. I have no problem paying my way, in fact i am proud to say i have taken nothing from this country as I have worked since I was 14 and claimed nothing except NHS treament.
-
I had to laugh last week when 'Gordy' and his bag carrier 'Darling' went up to Aberdeen to give the Oil industry a roasting for charging to much for their Oil and what they should be doing to bring the price down, sorry Gordy look closer to home like your 85p in the pound you grab out of it ;)
-
Don't think any government listens who ever it is in power
-
I had to laugh last week when 'Gordy' and his bag carrier 'Darling' went up to Aberdeen to give the Oil industry a roasting for charging to much for their Oil and what they should be doing to bring the price down, sorry Gordy look closer to home like your 85p in the pound you grab out of it ;)
Thats it Mr Smith, we would have the second cheapest petrol in the europe if not for the tax. The Government dont give a monkeys. The stat I saw the other dau said if they reduced the duty (dont remember to what) then the government would make the same amount of money as they did 12 months ago from fuel. Again i reiterate I dont mind paying tax. This is too much though. The money doesnt go back into roads or realistic public transport. It vanishes. I can imagine the one finger salute being the only thing coming back from the oil companies.
-
Flunky,
The money goes to the idle the work shy the scum that take the pssi out of mugs like 'ME, and other mugs that crawl out of bed each day to do their work, idle scum do not like being untangled from their bed before the pubs open or get off their arse and do a thing that is called 'Work,' or like pit lads say'Wok. Please come back Maggie and sort the this hsti out ;)
-
As I have said I am in financial services. Part of my job is to assess client incomes. When I say this I do not say it lightly. You would be absolutlely gobsmacked at the amount of money up for grabs I always remember a guy who was clearing £18,000 PA. in benefits for his brood. I have no problem if its genuinely needed but OMG you would not believe the amounts involved. What really pi55es me off is a good proportion of that cash is not going to someone who really needs its. Do they listen, do they feck.
-
I always remember a guy who was clearing £18,000 PA. in benefits for his brood
Flunky, had the man recently been made redundant or gone bankrupt?
do a thing that is called 'Work,' or like pit lads say'Wok. Please come back Maggie and sort the this hsti out
Mr Smith, How would you know what pit lads say? Heard one recently? No - because you got your wish years ago, shame on you.
-
Amazin,
And you know everything about the Coal industry living in NW London :)
-
I really doubt any sensible working class person would ever vote the Tories back in. I remember Maggies fascist regime well.
-
The trouble with this country is we are too willing to take everything any government throws at us re; taxes ,rights or using the streets in safety,
We just lay down and say dont kick too hard.
-
I really doubt any sensible working class person would ever vote the Tories back in. I remember Maggies fascist regime well.
I totally agree with that apart from the working class bit should be removed. Only imbeciles with short memories will vote the Tories back in! It has nothing to with class (oh, and my Dad is a tory District Councillor :-[)
-
For the first time in my life I do not know who to vote for.Certainly not Tory.
The lets pretend to be labour party has certainly lost its way. :-\
-
I think they talk a good talk but thats about all. If it is something that affects their own backyard they are the first to oppose it and palm it off elsewhere. If they are to disagree with a vote in Parliament, they can be "away on other duties" so they miss it by convenience. Overall most are out to line their own pockets and will agree with most things providing it won't affect them. When did you last hear of councils putting immigrants in affluent areas nextdoor to MPs houses or on their estates.....
-
Sounds like what we need is a parliamentary reform bill? Shift the goal posts and make them accountable. Think beyond the party system. Review what is in place , cut the last 700 years and start again?
-
I have posted what I think it is the ideal system before. More democratic, makes politicians more answerable but still keeps MPs that people can attach themselves too rather than a list system which means all MPs are central - and also prevents the danger of hate parties gaining a foothold (sorry Mr Smith). I shall try and find my most recent post on this matter and reference it here.
...I think that the apathy is a result of the death of ideology - both the main two parties are both similar shades of grey and with Nick Clegg as leader of the Lib Dems, he is turning that party exactly the same. The electoral system is desperately in need of change, not tinkering with internet and postal voting. Voters need to think they are in control and that they can change things. There has to be some form of PR - my preferred choice would be a constituency based preference voting system - larger constituencies based around 5-6 of the old constituencies with 5-6 MPs each. Then the final outcome would better reflect voting patterns, but the single issue dangerous parties like the BNP/Respect would still find it difficult to make a breakthrough. It would also more than likely give everybody a preferred MP. If you are a Tory in a solid Labour constituency or Labour in solid Tory constituency, who do you go to if you have a problem?
-
Thats true redclanger but at the end of the day it is the working classes who suffer most under tory rule.
-
I think I may shot for posting this, i hope not beacuse no offence is intended to anyone.
i dont understand this working, middle, upper class. I dont consider myself in any of those groups. I go to work I earn money I go out and i spend it. I think we should move away from putting ourselves in boxes. It only serves to alienate us.
At the start i didnt want this thread to get into Tory this Labour that. They are ALL the same. The point is they dont listen. No of them. Is it because we dont shout lound enough ? The french wont have it so why do we ? I am not advocating using french methods but crikey they DO get listened to.
I totally disagree with someone being called an imbecile for voting for one particular party. We all have different opions and some policies may appeal to one but not the other.
Amazin, If Iwas made redundant or was bankrupt I would still go to work. Even if it was working in a place I hated. I have bills to pay and would never ever not be in work. He had back problems caused by a fall. He walked ok. He talked ok. The guy was a sponger on 18K a year. I know that if people are ill they need all the help they need. But come on 18K pa. Thats wrong. Now just to make myself absolutely clear. I know people who are genuinely ill need help and they should get everything they need. But some people extract the unrine.
-
I really doubt any sensible working class person would ever vote the Tories back in. I remember Maggies fascist regime well.
Fascism is a government, faction, movement, or political philosophy that raises nationalism, and frequently race, above the individual and is characterized by a centralized autocratic state governed by a dictatorial head, stringent organization of the economy and society, and aggressive repression of opposition [my underlining].
I'd say Labour are half way there :) (and remember the little old man being muscled out of the conference a couple of years ago?)
More to the point, why has the word 'initiative' come to mean: form a lot of (expensive) committees, talk a lot of hot air, wait for years for an inconclusive report and avoid actually doing anything constructive - in fact do anything but use some initiative?
They need to do more than listen...
-
Redclanger,
You and your other left wing mates want to get switched on, I've just had a day out in Leicester and folk are in the pub at 1000 it's a joke, to much money is being payed out in social security that is why they are sat in a pub at 1000 on a Monday morning, personally I would stop the lot, kick the *fatherless children* back down the pit and dig some fringg cheap coal ;)
-
And in penalising the few who do take the piss, you will do significant and lasting harm to the many who find themselves unable to work but who are doing their best to sort it out. When protecting the many, you have to also protect a few bad apples. And why do people obsess with a bit of DSS fraud when tax fraud, evasion and avoidance costs billions - oh, yeah, the Mail ignores fraud by its friends and concentrates on vilifying the weak and unfortunate and people like you swallow the tripe unquestioningly!. I was doing online newspapers at school today, The Daily Mail had a typical race hate headline featuring a story that all the other 'serious' newspapers did not deem important enough to publish - including the sensible Tory ones who do not have the sole purpose of peddling race and other minority hate - which you yourself have raised previously in the Watershed. Personally, it is right wingers who blame the weak and minorities for societies ill that I would drop down the pit. I would then cap it with concrete.
-
folk are in the pub at 1000
That's a good age to be in the pub - obviously it keeps 'em young! ;D
-
personally I would stop the lot, kick the *fatherless children* back down the pit and dig some fringg cheap coal ;)
How about instead of targeting the *fatherless children*, you try going for the so called fathers who walk away from their responsibilities without a care in the world, whilst the mothers struggle to make ends meet. >:(
-
Amazin, If Iwas made redundant or was bankrupt I would still go to work. Even if it was working in a place I hated. I have bills to pay and would never ever not be in work.
Good for you, that's the spirit. I asked about the man's circumstances because you didn't provide any further details.
He had back problems caused by a fall. He walked ok. He talked ok. The guy was a sponger on 18K a year. I know that if people are ill they need all the help they need. But come on 18K pa. Thats wrong. Now just to make myself absolutely clear. I know people who are genuinely ill need help and they should get everything they need. But some people extract the unrine.
Two things here: firstly, since you believe people who are genuinely ill need help and they should get everything they need - but not £18,000, ??? perhaps, since your expertise lies in financial services, you'd care to come up with an appropriate figure.
And secondly, are you medically qualified to diagnose this person's condition?
-
I also work in financial services - in fact I'm Director of a Mortgage Brokerage, and I have yet to meet someone on benefits taking home this kind of pay... maybe there's a high net doley area that I'm not getting access to? Perhaps it's grim down South!
-
Amazin, Its not my or your job to assess whats required as my needs are different to yours as yours are different to the person next to you. I know people who work their backsides off for less than 18k a year and have children. Nope I am not medically qualified beyond my cubscout 1st aid badge. I am however exceptional at spotting a pi55taker. You seem to be missing the point. He is just an example. True case, but an example. My point was, why does ANYONE get such a vast amount of money for doing nothing ? surely the money could be better spent. Rehabilitation ? Retraining ? If somone in a wheel chair can be an Olympian then these dossers can answer a phone or do some photocopying or become a barrister.
Redclanger, Tax evasion is just as bad as DSS fraud who said it was'nt ? nothing wrong with tax avoidance as I said earlier.
Posie by definition they are then fatherless children. Anyone who walks away from that repsonsibility should be dealt with. Not going into detail, i have raised 2 girls who are not "biologically" mine. You are absolutely right they are the ones who should be targeted not the kids.
OllieC, I hope I am in the pub at 1000. LOL. Mr Smith come Friday I am in the pub at 10.00am big breakfeast then a day on the jar. I have earned it last month. ;D
-
I also work in financial services - in fact I'm Director of a Mortgage Brokerage, and I have yet to meet someone on benefits taking home this kind of pay... maybe there's a high net doley area that I'm not getting access to? Perhaps it's grim down South!
Between him and his partner he had loads of kids dont remember number. Just remember the factfind. Was self cert and needed to do financial planner to confirm affordability from our point of view. Guy brought in bank statements and it was confirmed through those approx £1500 pcm. Bought a property in Holt. North Norfolk. Very near Chelsea on Sea. Easy when you take tax credits, working family, sick, etc etc. etc. I now concentrate on life products. Same thing factfind done and over the years I have seen more and more being given through the benefits system. You must of seen an increase ? maybe I am just more aware than I was a while ago.
-
Good move on the life buddy, tis shite on the mortgage front at the moment...
I spent most of my summers as a student near Holt, working on a fruit farm... You know the place well? That's where, week in, week out, we advertised for fruit pickers, and couldn't get anyone local to do it.... Now they have Eastern Europeans & everyone says "they're taking our jobs"...
-
I know it very well. Live about 30 miles away. I covered there and round north norfolk. You are right, Life is soooooo much easier. That is a very common thing round my parts lots of agriculture but no one wants to do it. They get too much from the Gov. LOL.
-
I prefer dossers to barristers they do a lot less harm.If you're gonna have parasites have cheap ones.
-
I prefer dossers to barristers they do a lot less harm.If you're gonna have parasites have cheap ones.
;D ;D
-
I really doubt any sensible working class person would ever vote the Tories back in. I remember Maggies fascist regime well.
Yes, let's get back to the good old bad old days. I remember Callaghan's administration even better.
Inflation at +/- 25%, top rate of income tax 97.5 pence in the pound. Britain being the sick man of Europe because of all the strikes. Healey having to go cap in hand to the IMF to pay for their profligate spending.
If you think managing on your salary is difficult now, you should have tried it back then. Prices never the same two days running in the shops.
The unions were running the country, not the government.
There is the saying that 'those who do not learn from history are in danger of repeating it'.
Well I'm getting a touch of deja vu with this lot. We are heading for a 'winter of discontent' with the public sector workers.
Taxed up to the hilt, dissatisfied with our lot. Although we were promised a referendum on the EU constitution, we have not been given that right, even though it was part of the labour manifesto, before they won the last election.
I just despair.
valmarg
-
Yes, I remember Callaghan's administration too. You forgot to mention mortgage interest rates up to 15½%. I was unable to get a job as I had two children under 5 years of age and employers were not interested. Those were the days when they could ask you about family matters. We couldn't afford shoes for the children and when my mother visited and saw our son with holes in his shoes, she bought him some new ones. We lived off eggs, baked beans or tinned spaghetti on toast. The mortgage, rates and fuel bills took all my husband's money so our food and bus fares came out of the Family Allowance. I think and always have thought that Callaghan was at heart a "Tory" as he did nothing for the low paid workers.
The Tory Government that followed was just as bad as far as I am concerned. The "family silver" was sold off as utilities were privatised. Public sector pay rises were less than inflation. Hospitals and schools were run down. The three day working week and strikes and plenty of sleaze.
This present Government have charged fees for University students and encouraged student and other loans. They have cut the number of Public Sector employees who collect the money for the public purse and reduced the numbers involved with catching benefit fraudsters. It doesn't make sense.
They have done some good things though such as signing up to the European Social Chapter. The rights to be guaranteed by it include, "free movement throughout the EC; ‘equitable’ remuneration; a maximum number of hours per working week; free association in trade unions and collective bargaining; professional training; sex equality; minimum health and security provision; employer–employee consultation and participation; a minimum working age of 16; minimum pension rights; and protection for disabled workers".
They have also banned fox hunting and put more money into education and the NHS. The waiting times for operations has come down considerably and there is a deadline of 5 months from seeing the Consultant to having the op. For people in pain this is really good news. No more 4 or 5 years of waiting for a knee or hip replacement. Physiotherapy is now offered as a matter of course after these operations.
Hopefully the Government will do something to avert the crisis that is hitting our country now. We know that we are not the only ones affected as it is a world wide problem brought on by the cost of oil and the shortage of food. If they don't do anything I can see a big crash coming!
-
The government has tied its own hands. As the OECD pointed out earlier this week:
'Britain is more vulnerable to the credit crisis than any other leading nation except the U.S., a grim report warned yesterday.
Tumbling house prices and a heavy reliance on financial services have left us as badly exposed as the U.S. where a recession is looming, it said.
The study by the the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development issued a damning verdict on Gordon Brown's handling of the economy.
The watchdog said his 'excessively loose' spending policies had left Britain ill-equipped to withstand the downturn.
But it said the Bank of England cannot afford to ease the pain by lowering interest rates today because inflation is soaring.'
[from the Torygraph but the quotes are accurate.]
-
The government has tied its own hands. As the OECD pointed out earlier this week:
'Britain is more vulnerable to the credit crisis than any other leading nation except the U.S., a grim report warned yesterday.
Tumbling house prices and a heavy reliance on financial services have left us as badly exposed as the U.S. where a recession is looming, it said.
The study by the the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development issued a damning verdict on Gordon Brown's handling of the economy.
The watchdog said his 'excessively loose' spending policies had left Britain ill-equipped to withstand the downturn.
But it said the Bank of England cannot afford to ease the pain by lowering interest rates today because inflation is soaring.'
[from the Torygraph but the quotes are accurate.]
The OECD is a tory pupper organisation following a tory agenda - end of!
-
Redclanger,
You must love giving away your hard earned money to feckless and the idle personally I don't. In your great dream of socialism where everybody is equal can you tell me why the great socialist countries have now kicked communism into touch , I've just come back from town and went into two shops one to have my new glasses adjusted which I had to pay for because I don't claim anything off your left wing mates the lady that did the job was disabled a credit to herself, the second shop a similar story with another disabled person serving me a credit to himself, then I walk back to my car without a walking stick and go by the local 'Wetherspoons' and there they all are sat out side the dossers and tossers the idle and work shy on the piss at 1030, I know half of them and I know they are just lazy idle gits who in your view need all the help they can get, well mens bits to socialism move to North Korea or Rhodesia
-
And why do people obsess with a bit of DSS fraud when tax fraud, evasion and avoidance costs billions - oh, yeah, the Mail ignores fraud by its friends and concentrates on vilifying the weak and unfortunate and people like you swallow the tripe unquestioningly!
Its so obvious they do this to take the attention away from themselves and to lay the blame on those with no voice, there are so many examples of things like this. I dont think people swallow it, I think they choose to believe it because of their own selfishness and greed.
It amazes me that people can actually defend Mosley, I mean Thatcher these days.
"Fascism is a government, faction, movement, or political philosophy that raises nationalism, and frequently race, above the individual and is characterized by a centralized autocratic state governed by a dictatorial head, stringent organization of the economy and society"
I'd say Thatcher was 100% there :)
-
And wrong. - discuss
valmarg
-
Apparently Maggie sold off the silver, but Hash Brown sold off the gold/ >:( >:( :( :o ??? ::) :-[ :'(
valmarg
-
I don't know, all this tit for tat arguing over politics and we are never going to agree. Let us just be grateful for what we do have in this Country.
One of the things our taxes go towards is protection from terrorists and this must cost a fortune in the current climate. Think what could have happened if plans for blowing up a plane over London had not been stopped. We have had one bad attack on London but many others have been prevented.
I for one am happy about the taxes I pay to safeguard our security, give us a good NHS service, provide a decent education, to fight crime on the streets etc, etc. The most important thing for me is good health, not stupid arguments over how much tax we all pay.
-
The OECD is a tory pupper organisation following a tory agenda - end of!
[/quote]
I don't think the Labour government would help fund it if it was a Tory puppet. And I'm old enough to remember the criticisms the OECD levelled at Tory governments in the past. It's a worldwide organisation with worldwide funding although funding is dominated by the US (the well known Tory puppet state run by David Cameron :)).
'The OECD is funded by its 30 member countries. National contributions are based on a formula which takes account of the size of each member's economy. The largest contributor is the United States, which provides nearly 25% of the budget, followed by Japan.'
-
The OECD follows a Tory monetarist agenda - just like New Labour does which is why they are happy to fund it.
-
Do try to calm down a bit rc. You really are asking for a heart attack, or a stroke.
I used to bother about politics, but since 1997 have realised (as I've said before) there's small choice in rotten apples.
Happily, I'm a non-taxpayer, so I don't contribute towards this load of corrupt self-seekers of whichever party they belong ;D ;D ;D
valmarg
-
Do try to calm down a bit rc. You really are asking for a heart attack, or a stroke.
I used to bother about politics, but since 1997 have realised (as I've said before) there's small choice in rotten apples.
Happily, I'm a non-taxpayer, so I don't contribute towards this load of corrupt self-seekers of whichever party they belong ;D ;D ;D
valmarg
Amen :)
-
Do any governments listen?
Orgreave
The Poll Tax
Right To Buy
3 things which ripped the heart out of many communities, no government since has changed anything.
Case rested.
-
Well we don't have poll tax anymore, that much has changed.