Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Need a Leek on April 17, 2008, 20:30:49
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Sorry but here I go again ::)... On my first plot I have introduced the non dig method and I am impressed with the results that I had from just laying and rolling manure, however this is only my second season so what are the benefits, drawbacks and your views regarding this method?.
Cheers
Tony
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The dig method is obviously more physically demanding. I would think the non dig method - you could lose some of your plug plants or seedlings to weeds. Never done this myself though.
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The dig method is obviously more physically demanding. I would think the non dig method - you could lose some of your plug plants or seedlings to weeds. Never done this myself though.
My plots are a driveway width from the side of our house so I get out there and remove any sign of weeds each day.
I can pull carrots and lob them through our kitchen window and straight into the pot if my aim is right ;D.
Cheers
Tony
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due to circumstances too boring to go into, we do the no dig method, raised bed method and mulch method..works for us ;D
lucky for you, ours is a 15 minute drive away from our house
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How do the no-dig people find slugs? Do you get more or less do you think?
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I'm sure you get more as you're laying on a feast of decaying organic matter. 90% of them are in the soil anyway, and there's not much you can do about those.
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I cant comprehend this no dig gardening but i aint gonna knock it as i have never done it or read up about it.
A few things that go thro my head on this style of gardening are, i don't think you can get good results from just putting manure or fertilizer on the ground, i think you need a combination of both. How are the minerals and salts that come to the surface of the soil flushed out. As mentioned does it make a haven for slugs, and how do you control thistles, nettles and mares tail as the roots run horizontal under the surface till they find some light to come up to. Are you losing crop space.
Perhaps i am to stuck in my ways to change.
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Dig the roots out, then go no-dig. As for slugs, they've got plenty to eat, and I don't find them any more of a nuisance than before. If I saw symptoms of mineral deficiency, I'd take action, but as it is, I've never seen it.
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Davy
The answer is that the soil, because it is not compacted by people walking over it, is looser and so weeds just pull out very easily. It is supposed to be better for the soil as there is less disruption to the lower levels and so the good bacteria and all the other things that make soil can get on with their life without the major interruption of being dug and then having to recolonise when the soil is re-settled. You can space plants closer on no dig system as the manure and compost that you put on in the winter is closer to the root system and with a slight hill (inverted V shape) there is more access for the sun and air to get to individual plants.
Slugs are no more prevelant than before on the "old system"
Laying the manure and compost over the soil in autumn and winter is the easiest way of feeding the ground. The worms take it down with them. You will have seen worms in autumn taking dead leaves into grass, well that is the system that this uses. And also the worms do a sterling job in aerating and moving the soil around. There are more of them too as their home is not disrupted by the annual digging venture!
I don't have mares tail, but I have had the odd thistles and nettles and they just pull straight out. Occasionally they need a little help with a trowel but nothing major!.
You are never too old to try something new davy! Why don't you try just one bed and see how you go! It certainly saves that annual toil of digging which is certainly hard graft! It may or may not work for you!
I was and still am stuck in my ways over some things - but when I see the logic of some of it I try to be open to new ideas and at least give it a go!
Old Bird
;D
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I have done both ways, and to be honest I find the no dig so beneficial in saving time and heavy duty digging. The results in harvest are very good too. As has already been said, let the little guys do the hard work for you (worms). The quality and non compaction of the soil is incomparable to the digging method IMO.
As for slugs, my lettuce among other things were virtually untouched in the last couple of years. I suppose it could be Im not disturbing the beetles and other predators of the dreaded slug.
Its certainly the way I will continue to grow. I cant say enough good about no dig. I get many more crops per square foot than the conventional method :D :D
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In my experience 3 categories of no diggers/raised bedders.
1) lazy people
2) People who get it right and really produce with it
3) weird people who bang on about organic, moon planting, foraging, spirituality, and wear hemp clothing.
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hands up, we got a no 2 with a touch of no 3 ;D
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I know it works, I've seen some fantastic results.
My concern would be how you get the vast quantities of organic material.
I might be moving soon, in which case I would be taking on a new plot.I'd love to just do a whole 5 rods as one heavily mulched bed, and plant module grown stuff through it.and compare it to 5 rods traditionally done.
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albacore - what do you mean by "how do you get the vast quantities of organic material" you part make it with compost and you part fetch it ie manure and then you mix it!
Everyone talks of 5 rods and 10 rods - haven't a clue of how big that is - but sounds huge! When you move you will have to show us the two and how they compare!
Old Bird
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10 rods is 90 foot, by 30 foot.
I get muck for my beans trenches and mulching fruit, I reckon I can get 1/4 of a ton near on, in the car in one go, but it takes an hour per run.
I mulched 5 rods once before, 4 inches thick, and that took 30 car loads.
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My concern would be how you get the vast quantities of organic material.
My feelings exactly. I don't drive, so "fetching" is not really practicable on a bike. I get some manure delivered, but not enough to do the whole plot, and I've not been on it long enough to make enough compost. Without a car, where is all the lovely stuff supposed to come from? That's partly why I dig; that and I work full time so am still trying to get out all the perennials.
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Our local council ( Adur District) provide the service and will deliver 6 tons of the stuff for £30, well worth the bangers I must say. I had two loads plonked on my second plot and that was one hell of a pile :P.
Cheers
Tony
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If I could get 6 tons for £30 I'd snap it up too.
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We have a local firm of gardening contractors bring all their grass cuttings and dead leaves. They're extremely happy with the arrangement as it saves them paying to dispose of it at the tip. I'm surprised this sort of arrangement isn't a lot commoner.
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Give your local council a call. I picked up muck from a local source (for free) last year and when I got chatting to him he told me that the local authorities charge him for removing it and of course charge us to drop it off. I have a good size trailer but when you look at time and motion it really aint worth the effort...Mind you he has got some 2 year old stuff that is almost like compost so I am up for some of that free gear and my time.
Cheers
Tony
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I'm with the manics, mostly no2, with a bit of option 3 thrown in.
here's one of my no-dig beds, planted with onion sets
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one of ours with spuds in , definitely a bit of 3 ;D
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Im a 2 and some of 3 as well ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sorry but I am not a number as I work hard and I love what I do...Also I don't own a guitar with flowers on it and sing kumbya and I drive a gas guzzler " burp" 75 Tourer not a 4x4 ;D.
Cheers
Tony
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With regard to the mares tail, I have plenty on my plot, but I ignore it mostly and the straw mulch covers it pretty well. Haven't found it to be too detremental these last 3 years and no more slugs than anyone else either.
If I had to dig and weed, I would have to have given up ages ago due to back problems.
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and we'd never have started, due to mobility probs and flooding ;D
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I must say that I dug the whole plot over when I first got it. It let me remove weeds and see what the soiil was like and what was in it. Now I just treat the different bits according to the rotation plan. We buy in manure and mushroom compost, get leaves from the Council and wood chips from a local tree surgeon. Add to that grass mowings from paths and compost and there's loads of stuff available.
As for the numbers:I'm anything but 1, more of a workaholic the problem is getting me to down tools!!! mainly 2 - although i've made my mistakes and had my failures. And I'd be sorry not to be a bit of 3 having grown up in the sixties n all. ;D ;D
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I have had a good read on the no dig gardening and found it quite intresting, certainly has a lot going for it and certainly seems a lot easier than the way us old fashioned, old b*&&%$s do things.
I think i may be giving half a brassica bed a try as i need what is left of one of the compost beds emptying and do a comparrison on the results.
One thing is for sure i certainly need to make things easier than what they are if i want to keep doing show veg, apart from being hard graft it is time consuming.
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im new at this but i hope i will number 2 and i think i am a bit of 3. after talking to tonybloke on his plot. i see why people plant by the moon etc.
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Those of you who do No Dig beds, do you still plant in rows or in blocks of plants?
I've been mainly doing a sort of no dig method for a couple years while improving the heavy clay soil sometimes by digging in compost. Not going about it very scientifically but the yields seem adequate.
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I have nothing at all against the no dig method.
Or the dig method.
I am not racist, sexist, ageist, religionist, or any other 'ist either.
If people are having a happy life doing what they are doing and they are not harming anybody or anything else doing it. Carry on.
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Those of you who do No Dig beds, do you still plant in rows or in blocks of plants?
I do a mixture of both. Seeds are sown in rows, and leeks and onions, as it is easier to hoe around them. Oh, and spuds and beans too. Other things go in blocks.
Best bits are not needing to wear wellies as the woodchip is always dry underfoot and I can get started well before anyone else on our clay soil, as they are all still too wet well after me ;D (well, their lotties anyway ::))
cj :)
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I mostly plant in blocks, but it doesn't work with everything. If plants have to be too far apart to get a block into a bed, I put a row down the centre. Climbers like beans and peas go on wigwams. If I only want a few of a particular veg, it's usually a row.
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I do like Robert and CJ. Flexible planting!
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Davyw1 - I don't grow amny brassicas and they are probably the only thing that I wouldn't use in my deep beds!
Only reason for this and I am thinking brussel sprouts and purple sprouting because they like their roots in "firm soil" one reason being as they are tall top heavy plants they would rock too much (keep on rockin!) but they also need a lot of space and so I use my old fashioned beds for these!
Don't want to put you off and will probably be shouted down - but them's my feelings!
Good luck with it anyway!
Old Bird
;D
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No dig and/or raised beds aren't really a 'new age' or hippy concept ;D
The late great Geoff Hamilton advocated raised beds for the very reasons people in previous posts have suggested - not compacting soil etc. Plus there is very old evidence of seaweed being stacked up and left to rot down before being used as the basis for planting crops - medieval monks on the islands off the west coast of Ireland used this method to feed their communities.
I guess its just horses for courses! There is something theraputic about digging (always makes me think about my Grandad) but its so much easier not too!
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We put two raised beds in yesterday.We plan to put in a further six.
My plot is very wet clay and I have become tired of the battle. :)
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Having dug all the raised beds for the first season, I now only dig the potato bed every year as it rotates, although I do fork in compost in some of the others. For onion sets etc I loosen the topsoil with one of those soil miller gizmos.
Whether you dig or not, the stones still come to the top every year :)
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Do you think that stones have a life!
How is it that they get to the surface all the time?
They may be alive in a dead sort of sense and come to the surface to replenish themselves every 256 years or so? What do you reckon then?!!
Old Bird
;D
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as you can see, Ray's in charge of the spuds, he decided to do them in rows this year, the bed they're in needs breaking up, v hard clay underneath..
I tend to do things as I feel like, radish go in third of a row at a time so's we get successional rather than a glut...some things i do in a star pattern, sort of square with one in the middle, gives more room and I can get extra in
whatever works ;D
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I do short rows mostly, except sweetcorn. Potatoes go in anyhow, as I dont walk on the beds so I squeeze them in at about 9" apart in each direction. Always (apart from the last wet summer) get a great crop