Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: kenkew on March 18, 2008, 19:36:18
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Just a thought, but A4A is becoming a very, very popular site, especially for 'new-to-allotments' people and I was wondering what people thought about the idea of a dedicated thread for the more popular fruit/veg and flowers.
The reason behind it is that at certain times of the year there are 'things to be done' with particular plants and it just seems to me to be a sensible way forward to place questions and answers relating to a particular plant all in the same place.
As an example, this month there have been quite a few questions and very good answers and advice given about tomatoes. But! Rather than them being all in the same place, they pop-up as new threads scattered all over the place.
This has led to many repeats of the same questions and answers.
Wouldn't it make sense to have just one thread on 'what-ever' product with all questions/answers/advice within it so people could be directed to that thread without having to repeat it over and over again?
Bound to help with navigation if nothing else!
Would that be better than trawling the site or having to ask/answer the same questions when the answer can't be found....... or not?
Ken.
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That sounds like a good idea ken. One thing though, it would be important not to get like some other forums where we tell newbies off for asking the same question as someone else did, and perhaps in the wrong place.
I had this regularly on a forum I was new to a few years ago, and in the end, I just left it as I felt so stupid :-[
cj :)
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Thankfully Cj, I've never found that to be the case on A4A ....people here have always been more than willing to help with advice rather than push aside those who are seeking it. I don't see the regular long term people on here anything other than a wealth of ready and helpful advice.
Being directed to the location of the answer is merely a speedy solution to a question asked, is it not?
I have no fears about this site degenerating into the likes of so many others.....there are far too many sensible people on here..... ;)
Ken.
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a dedicated thread for the more popular fruit/veg and flowers.
Basically I would agree with this but in this day and age with some people growing some of the more exotic things available where would the list end?
Could I suggest we have a poll asking our members what they would like to see on such a list.
Then once this is complete then perhaps the top ten vegetables and the top five flowers would be nominated for individual discussion and everything else remains as it it now, i.e. as required.
To do this I would suggest that the members make their nomination by category, then once a list has been established members be allowed to choose any five from that list, then as always the top ten (if that is what is wanted) will have individual threads.
As I see it some form of restriction has to be placed otherwise we could all vote for everything that is nominated then where would we be?
Thats my initial thoughts on what I think is basically a good idea and I look forward to what the other have to say.
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I'm with you on that TeeGee, hence my reason for saying.....the idea of a dedicated thread for the more popular fruit/veg and flowers...
As we're all aware, the list really is a never-ending one so would need to be restricted to the very common plants which get many mentions.
It's just an idea at the moment and would probably never reach the stage where a dedicated board would be created, but a dedicated thread for what most members would like to have covered does make some sort of sense from a navigational point.
Any ideas and ways forward on this one would be welcome.
Thanks, TeeGee for those points.
Ken.
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I seem to remember a discussion about a year ago about splitting 'edibles' into fruit, veg and herbs to make navigation easier. I might even have started it? There didn't seem to be much appetite for that suggestion. As for this idea, I'm easy. It might work, it might not. We could give it a trial maybe?
G x
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Is it possible to have sub-forums here? if so you could have sub-forums for fruit, veg and herbs as Georgie said and then have dedicated threads in the right sub-forums which may also help to keep the forum clean.
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I remember that, Georgie and it possibly didn't take off due to all of those 'different' plants being, again, so diversified, although I did think that quite a good idea.
As TeeGee rightly pointed out, and also as I stated, is that such a move would really only have to include the most popular covered/discussed plants.
I'm sure it's a move for the better but obviously one which has to be done with suggestions and support from A4A members.
It's an idea that's a long time awaited but won't move from discussion to action without enough support.
Time will tell, but as I see it, the sooner the better so that we can all benefit from having a speedy answer to our many questions, and all in the same place!
Ken.
(PS: Sorry, MickW....I stomped on your post)
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I like things just the way they are 8)
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My concern is that new people may just read the information and not post.I think asking questions is a good way of breaking the ice :)
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It wouldn't prevent asking questions, but it would certainly lead to a faster answer.
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That was a very fast answer Ken :)
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I like things just the way they are 8)
When you know all the answers you don't need to change anything!
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That was a very fast answer Ken :)
I have candle grease on me bum!.... ;D
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If it ain't broke why mend it. Thought you might have got the message on the photies where you have to go touting for business in the other sections. What used to be a fun and simple to understand bit is now just 'too heavy'
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Ace is right. This site is already too complicated and off putting for newcomers as it is! Rather off putting for long time users too.
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If it aint broke dont fix it
I and i would think others like the informal atmosphere around here
Someone fixed the photography section and lots stopped using it me included
mrf94
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If it ain't broke why mend it. Thought you might have got the message on the photies where you have to go touting for business in the other sections. What used to be a fun and simple to understand bit is now just 'too heavy'
It's an idea ACE, that's all. You don't like it, that's fine, let's see how many do.
Regarding the photo section, it's more supported now than ever before and I'll discuss any part of it with anyone in the appropriate place, that's the Photo comments section, not here. All suggestions put forward in there by A4A members are certainly taken on board and acted on, hence the support it now has.
Ken.
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Ace is right. This site is already too complicated and off putting for newcomers as it is! Rather off putting for long time users too.
I don't see the site as complicated, Eric. I only visit those boards I'm interested in. Any that don't appeal to me I don't open.
That's not all that complicated is it?
Ken.
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If it aint broke dont fix it
I and i would think others like the informal atmosphere around here
Someone fixed the photography section and lots stopped using it me included
mrf94
Regarding the photo section, contact me in the Photo comments section, mrf, and I'll certainly take on board any improvements you might suggest.
Ken.
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If it aint broke...I agree too, I also don't look at the pictures anymore because I feel it is just too complcated.
Although I am always answering squash questions, I find it is OK even repeating things all the time, it is a way of getting used to newbies.
Although the idea has it's merits my vote would be leave it alone for now.
XX Jeannine
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My concern is that new people may just read the information and not post.I think asking questions is a good way of breaking the ice :)
What is 'The Management' view of the difference betwen 'Guests' and 'Users' ?
If 'The Management' is keen on people registering, then this board needs to encourage questions to be posted, however basic and repetitive.
If all the info required is available neatly packaged to all, why register ?
Perhaps a sticky post on "guide to lottie fundamentals", "the first year in the life of a lottie" or, "Oh my god, what have I got myself into?" might be a nice intro for the newbies as these kind of questions are regulars.
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Being totally new to veggie growing and even owning a garden, I have to agree that its good the way it is.
I love the fact that no matter how dumb the question is, I can ask it and get a good response.
I think if it was split into top veg/fruit, those questions wouldnt happen. We all learn differently and take in information differently.....some of us have to ask more than once :) I know I have done :D
Even though it seems like repeat questions to folks been gardening for years and years... to us newbies, the questions are unique, and even when repeated, the answers are always unique too.... thats the joy of this site... and I love it!!
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One thing that gets overlooked in these debates is the fact that Guests see the site differently to logged-in users. Take it from me it is cluttered and confusing and the more clutter that's added the more confusing it becomes.
As for asking questions that have been asked before, that's life. Is this meant to be a forum or en cyclops thingie. Google has all the answers but not the friendly atmosphere of a forum. Another garden forum many of us frequent nearly went to the wall trying to create a one-stop font-of-all-knowledge portal.
As for the photography board, it is good that hes been mentioned because I closed it last year when it became cluttered and now I don't see it any more, therefore there is no photography section.
There will always be repetition and splitting the edible plants will create more repetition. Currently many people are having trouble germinating seeds and this would be repeated for each subdivision. If sub-sections were created for potatoes, all blight related posts would be equally at home in the tomato section. I personally would close any board dedicated to potato or brassica and possibly roots as well then the forum might become less appealing to me.
I vote to leave an unbroken site as it is.
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in a vote i would go for leaving it be.
As for the photography board, it is good that hes been mentioned because I closed it last year when it became cluttered and now I don't see it any more, therefore there is no photography section.
how do you do this?
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If you go to Profile:
Down the left in the Modify Profile section
Click on Ignore Boards Preferences: Put ticks in the boxes for any sections you do not wish to view.
You can come back and untick them later if you remember.
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Hum ... I originally liked the idea of splitting into certain dedicated sections, because I am another one who is new to vegetable growing, and have many questions and can spend ages using the search facility to find answers to these questions.
However ... having thought it, as Springbokgirlie says, if the experts/pros on here don't mind us asking the same questions over and over, then leave it as it is. I enjoy reading the different versions of the same questions, and the different answers - there is often more than one way of doing things.
I like it as it is - and I like the photography section as it is now - I don't find it complex at all.
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I seem to remember a discussion about a year ago about splitting 'edibles' into fruit, veg and herbs to make navigation easier.
G x
God that was a year ago! crikey, time does speed up when you get older!!
I agree with Lish, keep it simple, its great the way it is!
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I personally like it the way it is, I find it interesting to look through all of the posts - you never know what interesting facts you can pick up!
bd
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If the wiki is done right, the info should be there.
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contact me in the Photo comments section,
All of a sudden we can only reply about photos in the photos section. I will do that if when photo section stops leaking out on to all the other boards.
Know it looks as if I am digging at people here, I admire the dedication of those that get involved, (I would not do it) and everything that is done or changed is for the good of the site. It is good that we are able to air our views, providing we are being listened to. I feel we are going to be railroaded though.
This forum is a wealth of information and the 'over the garden fence' style suites me and a lot of others, leave it that way.
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you seem to have contradicted yourself - you don't want the photo section spilling over but you are quite prepared to have the spilling over from all the other sections (which does happen now and again, especially in 'basics, 'top tips' even 'the shed'.
All ken is asking for is whether more dedicated sections are worthwhile. One on tomatoes seems like a good idea to me and maybe add more as we go along. people will still ask questions, even the same ones over and again but that doesn't matter at all, it is how we learn.
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you seem to have contradicted yourself - you don't want the photo section spilling over but you are quite prepared to have the spilling over from all the other sections (which does happen now and again, especially in 'basics, 'top tips' even 'the shed'.
Difference being that they are 'mostly' gardening related topics. There are photography forums all over the internet if you are into photography, this is a gardening forum. I like to take pictures and show them on here, the gallery was sufficiant for that, now it is a photography club. And it is always touting for business on the other threads.
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as far as 'hits' go the whole of the gallery comes quite low down the list compared to the rest of the forum but then why contribute to all the non gardening matters then such as the watershed if you want only gardening subjects
strictly speaking this thread shouldn't be in this section either but does it matter
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hmm it is true that many people ask the same questions, but I think the SEARCH function is obviously not used enough, I am talking about by people who just want some info and not to join in on a thread for a nice chat with the others ;) Maybe that would be helpful to "advertise" the search page more?
IMHO, it is true that there are lots of questions about:
spuds
tomatoes,
squash,
onions/garlic,
soft fruit.
But at the same time I learn lots of things just by browsing the threads that maybe I wouldn't learn if I headed straight to one section.
There is never any clear answer on this sort of question...
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as far as 'hits' go the whole of the gallery comes quite low down the list compared to the rest of the forum but then why contribute to all the non gardening matters then such as the watershed if you want only gardening subjects
strictly speaking this thread shouldn't be in this section either but does it matter
Back to original subject. I would like this forum to stay as it is, informal, over the garden fence. It is working extremely well. I do not use the photo comps and they will now be on the ignore list now I know how to do it. The only thing I would change is the touting for business on other threads. Will this turn out the same way 'New question on toms, look now.' I hope not. Loads of forums when you ask a question quickly tell you to do a search. Very off- putting. On A4A you get an aswer to any silly question you would like to ask, but you will not be made to look silly. Also you get to have a little chat at the same time. No harm in that unless it goes too far off topic.
I did saymostly gardening in my answer, we have had our share of trials and tribulations on this forum and the support given from other members makes me proud to be a member, they are not gardening related but someting you can share between friends. Or let off steam. I would not want that to stop, but I do not have to read them if I can second quess a thread.
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A lot of us would probably leave if the site was messed around with even more. Then who would answer the beginners questions? I notice now that a lot of the older, as in long standing. posters no longer even visit. We have lost already a huge store of life time knowledge by their absence.
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I like it as it is too Ken, its informal and fun.
Most newbies get an individual welcome, whereas on dedicated forums of fruit and veg. I think they would look in and get the info and not contribute by posting.
It would be as if we would be saying "The information is there, read it. Dont bother us unless you have something worthwhile to say"
I have been on a forum similar to this suggestion. I felt foolish if I asked something that had already been written but I didn't understand.
This site is huge and daunting enough for a new person without extra sections.
Star x
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Please leave it as it is. As Star has said "its informal and fun"
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the bulk of this forum is made up of dedicated sections and I don't know where people get the idea that folk won't carry on asking questions, of course they will
funny thing is, I bet that if ken had just placed a new section on Tomatoes for example, and not asked first, we would be saying, oh what a good idea and just get on with it ;D
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I disagree Calendula, if Ken had popped one on for tomatoes I probably would have said why not squash and corn too as I get tons on messages and PMs about these two veggies as well as tomatoes.
I do give the same info over and over again but I don't mind and there is almost something new to add. For a newbie I think it is very important that they can ask as many questions as they need to and not be nervous that they are asking for something already there, therefore I am happy to repeat the info.
I am a member of Daves Garden which is enormous, so much so that is it impossible to keep up and frankly I rarely post anything, also because they have specific threads sometimes one feels isolated from the forum veering off to find something
My opinion is leave it alone, this is not judging Ken, the fact that he is posting the question shows us he is working hard.
Places like the Watershed and and the Shed lighten up the forum which would be dreary if it was all plants etc.
I feel this is a gardening forum basically for allotmenteers and others who are dedicated growers, we have the same atmosphere here as we do on the allotments, we chat about veggies, flowers, animals, politics, the neighbours kids and a few naughty jokes chucked in too, lets not make it too formal or too professional, someone said " over the garden fence" this is how I see it and this is what I would like to see it remain.
I choose not to bother with the photography because I find it overwhelming the old system I didn't, but that is just me, I would however hate it if other topics started to go the same way.
XX Jeannine
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Have you ever been to GardenWeb? I think I went there first before joining A4A. Try navigating it. They have vegetable gardening messageboard separate from Alliums,... then there is a forum for harvest (where would I put a question about how to tell when you should harvest garlic, for example). Then there is seed saving, growing from seed, herbs, herbalism, attracting butterflies, attracting wildlife, companion planting, composting, frugal gardening, hot peppers, tomatoes, moss, heirloom gardens, historical gardens, ..... then there are the regional gardening messageboards there... far too many. It is a nightmare. Hardly been back since I came to A4A.
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It is a difficult balancing act splitting the forum into sections.
The layout is basically the same as when I launched the site all those years ago - I laid it out as I thought best, and luckily most people like it (it has even been emulated!).
I like the idea of splitting up the edibles section, it feels a little to all encompassing, but when the topic was raised a year ago, the support was not there, so it never happened!
As to dedicated threads for different plants, I do not think this would work - people would still post new threads (it is human nature), and the threads would get so long the same questions would be asked anyway!
At least when a new topic is started, people tend to read it, would you read a 40 page topic to try to find the answer to a simple question?
That is my 2pence worth!
Dan
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I'm not so sure.
For example, at the moment someone might ask whether they can pot on their leggy tomato seedlings deeper and after a guru has said yes, someone else, because the forum isn't restricted to tomatoes, will come in and ask can you do that with chillies / cucumbers / melons as well? It's not 'on thread' but still of interest.
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My initial thoughts were that having separate sections for specific veg might be a good idea...and then I've watched the debate and feel differently.
I agree that one of the most important features of this forum is the capability to ask questions and get a helpful response, without being made to feel as if you are either stupid or intruding on a private party (as one forum I used to post on made me feel).
I also agree the search feature could be utilised more often by some folk, but as Jeannine says, frequently the information will be repeated anyway. Just being pointed to a previous post is impersonal, and may not fully answer the question.
This forum has a great relaxed feeling to it, I (usually!) feel very much amongst friends, so I can understand folk's reluctance to change the format when they feel changes might threaten that. However, Ken was asking the question in order to possibly improve things; you can't fault the bloke for trying! We have given our feedback and hopefully that will be listened to.
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Yes, I like the relaxed feel this forum has. One of the joys is when a thread gets very slightly high-jacked, when someone asks a related question that changes tack. Just like chatting at the allotment, in fact. And no-one seems afraid to ask even the most basic question, even if it's been asked a dozen times before. Good - this is what happens in real life! My vote is to keep it as it is.
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i agree with trevor. i like the forum and it seems to me it works well this way.
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I'm not so sure.
For example, at the moment someone might ask whether they can pot on their leggy ......
Sorry. My post above was to Calendula at the foot of page two - not to Dan :) Hope it makes more sense in that context.
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.....only 'dedicated' or 'sticky' I'd like, come the summer.....
Recipes = what to do with all those bl**dy courgettes ;D ;D ;D
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I'm not so sure.
For example, at the moment someone might ask whether they can pot on their leggy tomato seedlings deeper and after a guru has said yes, someone else, because the forum isn't restricted to tomatoes, will come in and ask can you do that with chillies / cucumbers / melons as well? It's not 'on thread' but still of interest.
but it is like that anyway - and as this forum already has dedicated sections I can't see what the fuss is really - the 'show' section already has a dedicated pumpkin and sunflower section but many of the threads don't relate to showing
personally I'd love a section on spuds but I can understand people not feeling comfortable with change and that there could be too many sections but this forum is about as clear as crystal as far as navigating is concerned, very easy to use and I see the new ideas as just tweaking :)
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I've only been on A4A about 2 months and was attracted to it instead of an American site I tried because of:
o the obvious skill of the gardeners and their willingness to share info
o the conversational quality of the postings- a real give and take as well as the normal swings off topic that normal socializing has
o humor
o lack of a legalistic attitude towards gardening
o the reasonable and understandable divisions into forums
When I wanted a lot of info on parsnips I tried to Search feature which worked fine.
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mm, well maybe I am a bit dense or perhaps too much of a wrinkly but it is not as clear as crystal to me, cos I cannot work out the photo bit
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I think it is fine the way it is. I think that growing things is too organic (no pun intended) a subject to be too rigidly categorised. As has already been stated, questions relating to one vegetable, may be equally applicable to another and may lead to a thread veering a bit off topic. Rather than reducing repetition, this will increase repetition by the same question being asked in different thread/topics. The veering off of thread does also have that element of conversation to it that, although may initially be off putting to the casual viewer, means that threads remain interesting and that you might find out the unexpected. Thread having to rigidly stay on topic will just lead to parts of the site being nothing more than an encyclopaedia of different people's knowledge - a wiki!
One thing I hope this thread does not lead to is a resurrection of the militant, must "stay on thread" opinions that arose from certain users during winter 2006 which led to a lot of arguments and a lot of people leaving permanently, semi-permanently or temporarily.
PS - I also like that fact that I can be quite controversial on here, fall out with people big time over issues that should be argued vociferously e.g. religion, sport and politics, and then get back to cordially discussing gardening as if nothing happened.
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mm, well maybe I am a bit dense or perhaps too much of a wrinkly but it is not as clear as crystal to me, cos I cannot work out the photo bit
A lot more feel the same since it was 'tweaked'
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PS - I also like that fact that I can be quite controversial on here
Hey You! That's my job. ::)
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Leave well alone, It works well now..I agee with Ace and others that photo change over that occurred. In my opinion. Made it far too complicating and time consuming to wade through ..So I dont bother opening that thread now..
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Good idea, kenkew. Would make it easier when looking for something specific. And by the way I find ther site very easy to navigate my way around, thanks:-)
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I think the more dedicated sections there are the fewer I would read or contribute to. What I like about A4A most is the absence of restrictions. Unlike many similar groups there is a real sense of community and folk don't worry too much if threads wander a bit. Please don't put us in boxes.
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Well said!
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Hear here
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Well, I asked and I got!
Nice to see so much response, for and against.
It was a question to test the waters, there was no plan to take it further unless the support was over-whelming, which it obviously isn't. But if you don't ask you don't get answers.
Some points raised were also some that didn't spring to mind when I posed the question and I can see the sense in part of not catergorizing individual plants. However, it has got people discussing it and that's always the best way forward rather than jumping in and introducing something unwanted.
A quicky about the photo section seeing as it's been mentioned. The current format is as it is due to majority member requests. (Those that bothered to comment.) If anyone prefers not to join in because of 'how it looks' there is a place in that section to offer suggestions for change and believe me, changes have happened, more than once because I listen to those comments. The 'Gallery' remains untouched and functions as it always has. Any and all photo's can be inserted exactly as before.
The competition has expanded due to requests so that 'like' photo's can compete with 'like'. That makes for a fairer, and because there is more than one category, a constantly on-going competition. There is almost always a request for photo's and a vote taking place on a running basis. This is in place of the single monthly one as before.
Regarding posting comp up-dates in the shed; Again this was via requests. Anyone seeing the heading knows at a glance there has been a new comp, a last call for photo's or a winner has been declared. It's not a new thread, it's posted as an announcement and immediatly locked so as not to create a thread. The info is there at a glance without the need to even open it.
Thanks for all the comments.
Ken.
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Photos and voting....way back, you promised to get together stats which would demonstrate conclusively the popularity of the 'old' v the 'new' formats...viewing/voting etc....any further with those, please?
(and please, put these in The Shed, will you? So much easier for all to see there....as, in fact, this proposed 'poll' would have been :-\)
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I went through the how-many-sections question debate with my other half when he launched the now defunct internet listings magazine It's on the Net. As has been discussed, section design is difficult and is a bit of a black art between the designer's/editor's need to find things and the reader's.
The reader's way of doing things/finding things always wins though, however slightly 'scruffy' it seems to others, otherwise there would be no magazine/website.
With both my website writer/Allotment member hats on I vote for keep as is. More sub-sections would in my opinion be confusing. I already vaccilate on whether to post my often veg questions in Edible or The Basics - when does a question stop being Basic? Dunno.
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Without - for which I apologise - reading all previous posts, this is back to the age-old administrative question of General files or Whatever the discrete files were called.
Neither was a full answer. One was a compost heap, the other like Starlings on the wing. For want of a better expression!
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...veg questions in Edible or The Basics - when does a question stop being Basic?
When you're wondering which way up to sow cucumber seeds?
;) ;D
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Photos and voting....way back, you promised to get together stats which would demonstrate conclusively the popularity of the 'old' v the 'new' formats...viewing/voting etc....any further with those, please?
(and please, put these in The Shed, will you? So much easier for all to see there....as, in fact, this proposed 'poll' would have been :-\)
This thread didn't start with a discussion on the Photo Comp Section, it was a simply a question to see how people felt about dedicated threads for popular produce. (Not got as far as a vote). The answer is loud and clear; The majority say' Things are better left as they are!' End of subject?
I appreciate all the feed back and it's good to see so much of it. The site is always better for different opinions and views.
Regarding the Photo Comp section, I'm not adding anything to what I have already said in response to comments here. Anything further to do with the Photo Comp section, provided it is placed in the appropriate place, I'll answer there, not here.
Ken.
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for what its worth i think the site should stay as it is,we have enough boards already.i am still wondering why we have 2 pet sections.
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Thank you Ken for your hard work and putting feelers out to see what everyone wants / thinks for improvements or otherwise on the site.
Its not an easy task you do, I wouldn't want to do it (and couldn't).
Its also fair to say that other sites will just change things and announce it has been done. At least here the members get to have a say.
I reckon I might just stay here ;) :D
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i am still wondering why we have 2 pet sections.
I had never noticed that cos despite having pets, I don't share them, and if they have problems, I take them to the vet or Google ???